Bee: Without Amare, Suns still just fine

Warhawk

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Staff member
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/content/sports/story/13762299p-14604539c.html

By Sam Amick



Amare Stoudemire stood outside the Los Angeles International Airport in mid-September, waiting for a limo and looking plenty healthy doing it. The Phoenix Suns superstar was in Southern California to film "The Wheel of Fortune" for NBA week and later would lose miserably.

Less than a month later, Stoudemire's luck had only worsened, as he underwent microfracture surgery on his right knee that will keep him out of action for at least four months. The Suns' standing in the Western Conference, as a result, seemed doomed.

But don't buy that vowel just yet.


In a 100-88 preseason win over the Kings at the Save Mart Center, the Suns showed why having a healthy MVP is still reason for respect.

Point guard Steve Nash ran the familiar full-throttle operation, with little changing but the names since he orchestrated a 62-win campaign last season. This time, the ones finishing weren't Quentin Richardson, Joe Johnson or Stoudemire, three scorers all departed. It was Raja Bell, James Jones and high-flying holdover Shawn Marion, with Nash finishing with 15 points and nine assists. The Suns - who face the Kings again Wednesday night in New Mexico - led by as many as 20 points.

"They're still the leading scoring team in the league," Kings coach Rick Adelman said. "They still have Nash, and Marion, and those type of people. It's not going to be as good without Stoudemire, because he's such a good finisher. But I still think they can be a very good team.

"People are underestimating the fact that, even though they lost a very good player, they still have talent. We were able to succeed without one of our better players a couple of times (in the past)."

With two preseason games left, Adelman unloaded his bench as he may not the rest of the way. Down the stretch, he'll likely turn his focus to the core rotation in preparation for the Nov. 1 regular season opener at New Orleans/Oklahoma City.

While the young ones didn't quite match the sizzle of the Suns, they showed some flair. Second-year shooting guard Kevin Martin started in place of a resting Bonzi Wells, logging 42 minutes and scoring 15 points on 7 of 14 shooting and nine rebounds. Adelman, however, said he wants more from Martin on the defensive end.

"I think he's right," Martin said. "I played good 'D' at times, but got a little lazy at times because I got tired. I've learned to fight through that."

Francisco García played the role of small forward for 36 minutes, but he hit just 4 of 14 shots and had no rebounds.

With backup point guard Jason Hart missing his second game with a hip pointer, point guards Ronnie Price and Luis Flores had long-awaited playing time to let their battle unfold.

With four games and a quarter under his belt, Price finally looked comfortable. A scoring point guard during college at Utah Valley State, the rookie hit 4 of 8 shots, including two three-pointers, for 12 points. Flores was 3 of 8 from the field in 14 minutes. He played well defensively on Nash and even stripped Marion in the first half when, seemingly alone, he was streaking on a first half fastbreak.

Rookie forward Eric Sandrin showed his athleticism in the fourth, soaring to slam a Martin miss.

The starter at the power forward spot continued to rotate, this time belonging to Kenny Thomas after he didn't play against Portland on Saturday night. Thomas shot 2 of 8 in 33 minutes, though he grabbed nine rebounds and had five assists.

And the Suns - with the help of 16 points from Marion and 15 from Bell - stood up just fine without Stoudemire.

"Steve Nash took control of that ship, they've got shooters who can hit from anywhere, and that's all they need," Wells said. "I think they'll be able to hold it down until Amare comes back. They're still a playoff team."
 
#2
I think the suns will make the playoffs in the tough west . The suns are still loaded , they have a lot of weapons with nash, marion , bell and many other offensively talented players . The interesting thing is that all pacific teams have below average defenses to put it mildly .

In defense standards i think personally clipps >Kings>lakers>suns>warriors .

But we have to win the division , when the division's best player is out for 4 -5 months . The kings have no excuse not to take the division crown and secure home court advantage for least the first round .
 
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#3
Minutes:
Peja-12
Miller-10
Bibby-10
SAR-8
Wells-0
Martin-42
Garcia-36
Skiiner-31
Price-24
Thomas-33

Nash-27
Marion-28
Bell-31
Thomas-32
Jones-36

This preseason game, like all preseason games, meant nothing. The Suns starters beating up on the Kings' bench is not reason for respect.
 

Warhawk

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#5
Hey captain bill - thanks for posting that - I was wondering how the minutes were distributed since our starters were never really on the floor and theirs seemed to be quite a bit.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#6
Yeah, but they were beating our starters too.

These games mean little, but the Suns have been impressive in preseason thus far, offensively at least. And they were taking it to our starters early as well. Doesn't mean a thing as far as who is truly better right now, but at no point did we have the upper hand in this one, regardless of who was out there. They are still going to have to be contended with, although not in scary fashion like last year.
 
#7
Bricklayer said:
Yeah, but they were beating our starters too.

These games mean little, but the Suns have been impressive in preseason thus far, offensively at least. And they were taking it to our starters early as well. Doesn't mean a thing as far as who is truly better right now, but at no point did we have the upper hand in this one, regardless of who was out there. They are still going to have to be contended with, although not in scary fashion like last year.


Peja-12
Miller-10
Bibby-10
SAR-8
Wells-0
Martin-42
Garcia-36
Skiiner-31

Price-24
Thomas-33

Nash-27
Marion-28
Bell-31

Thomas-32
Jones-36

this tells the whole story
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#9
tyrant said:
Peja-12
Miller-10
Bibby-10
SAR-8
Wells-0
Martin-42
Garcia-36
Skiiner-31
Price-24
Thomas-33

Nash-27
Marion-28
Bell-31
Thomas-32
Jones-36

this tells the whole story
Again, did you watch the game Tyrant? I suspect I know the answer, but just checking in case you had a chance to see this too.

The Suns jumped out on our starters something like 19-8 at one point, we got back into it, and then it was garbagetime. The game would mean nothing even if it were starters on starters all game, but the fact of the matter was their starters did quite well against ours thank you.
 
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#11
Bricklayer said:
Again, did you watch the game Tyrant? I suspect I know the answer, but just checking.

The Suns jumped out on our starters 19-8 at one point, we got back into it, and then it was garbagetime. The game would mean nothing even if it were starters on starters all game, but the fact of the matter was their starters did quite well against ours thank you.
They did jump out real quick.. but then our starters came right back at them. Wasn't it pretty much even when they came out just a couple of minutes later? Bonzi wasn't on the floor either.. I'd say it was a wash but like you said either way it's a meaningless pre-season game. That being said, if our starters had played as many minutes as theirs did, or in Bonzis case any minutes at all, I doubt we would have gotten beaten down like that. I was almost wondering what Dantoni was trying to prove... but he's got a starting roster to juggle I suppose...
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#12
KP said:
They did jump out real quick.. but then our starters came right back at them. Wasn't it pretty much even when they came out just a couple of minutes later? Bonzi wasn't on the floor either.. I'd say it was a wash but like you said either way it's a meaningless pre-season game. I was almost wondering what Dantoni was trying to prove... but he's got a starting roster to juggle I suppose...
Think the Suns were up 4 when we started subbing out, but don't quote me on that.

In any case, point wasn't that the Suns put on a terrifyng display, but simply that they certainly showed they can still at the very least play with us. Have a new generation of three point bombers, and Nash is just a maestro. They just have to fall off without Amare, but people waiting for them to collapse and get out of our way may be kidding themselves. As long as Nash, Marion and Thomas stay healthy, they are still a dangerous crew.

As far as the Suns rotation -- really the same thing that we have been doing up to this point. All of our early games we've been running through our rotation looking at people who we know are going to be out there in the regular season while our opponents have been resting people and throwing out scrubs. Same thing, opposite way this time. Never know what you're going to get in preseason.
 
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#13
Bricklayer said:
Think the Suns were up 4 when we started subbing out, but don't quote me on that.

In any case, point wasn't that the Suns put on a terrifyng display, but simply that they certainly showed they can still at the very least play with us. Have a new generation of three point bombers, and Nash is just a maestro. They just have to fall off without Amare, but people waiting for them to collapse and get out of our way may be kidding themselves. As long as Nash, Marion and Thomas stay healthy, they are still a dangerous crew.

As far as the Suns rotation -- really the same thing that we have been doing up to this point. All of our early games we've been running through our rotation looking at people who we know are going to be out there in the regular season while our opponents have been resting people and throwing out scrubs. Same thing, opposite way this time. Never know what you're going to get in preseason.
Right I agree with you, I don't think they are going to be as bad as some people seem to think, but who knows?
 
#15
tyrant said:
i think not. compare 30 minutes to 120minutes. how does that not play a factor.
It did play a factor but like he said, this game really told us a whole lot of nothing. Adelman has said he will ratchet it up and play a roster closer to the reg season lineup these last two games. We have to see our Core play extended minutes before we will know anything about this team. I just hope we bury the Lakers in the last game and start the season off right.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#16
tyrant said:
i think not. compare 30 minutes to 120minutes. how does that not play a factor.
It does not play a factor in the first quarter is how it doesn;t play a factor. And the Suns won the first quarter too.
 
#17
Phoenix haven't proven anything yet. The only thing they prove is that they can play in preseason games. I wait till the season start to say that they can play without Stoudemire. My guess is that they're going to go down hard without Stoudemire.
 
#18
I think the point everyone is trying to make Brick is that the article is kinda misleading and polyannish from the Suns point of view. The Starters were a wash (we were down two when we started subbing out), and it wasn't even our real starting five. This article claims to have seen something last night that is proven incorrect when you look at the minutes logged. I agree with you that the game showed us nothing (something this article seems to disagree with) and that the Suns showed they are far from a lottery team... but any more than that and I don't know... they still haven't convinced me. Certainly last night is kind of a stupid game to draw any conclusion from. That's why its kind of a stupid article.
 
#19
Bricklayer said:
Again, did you watch the game Tyrant? I suspect I know the answer, but just checking in case you had a chance to see this too.

The Suns jumped out on our starters something like 19-8 at one point, we got back into it, and then it was garbagetime. The game would mean nothing even if it were starters on starters all game, but the fact of the matter was their starters did quite well against ours thank you.
Our "starters" included Kenny Thomas and Kevin Martin. No Wells could have been a big thing. But, I think the Suns look good, as long as their shots fall. They are 100% a perimeter team, probably more so then we were last year. I can see how teams will defend them already. Load the perimeter.
 
#20
all suns need to do is be a few games above 500 by the time amare returns and they can still go on a run and win their division. If they don't and they get the 6th seed, they will be the one team no one will want to face at all. Certainly not at that position
 
#21
Ray Allen34 said:
all suns need to do is be a few games above 500 by the time amare returns and they can still go on a run and win their division. If they don't and they get the 6th seed, they will be the one team no one will want to face at all. Certainly not at that position
If he comes back this year... nothing is a given at this point even how he will play if he does.
 
#22
nothing is a given at this stage, everything in up in the air. No one knows what things will plan out. There will be surprises through every season.

I'm basing my opinion On if he does come back on schedule and plays at the same kind of high level.
 
#23
how many first quarters have the kings won and then lose the game by 20? the kings would jump out and run 12 straight points on a team in the opening minutes of a game and then get beat. it's not how you start it's how you finish. the kings starters had a combined 35 minutes while the suns starters combined for over 120. it's common sense. we should respect the suns because they played a great 1st quarter? too modest.
 
#24
I don't take away much from that game other than Peja's shot, Garcia/Martin/Skinner/Price/Flores/KT. I knew the Suns would and will still be a high-scoring team, just small (small line-up similar to last year), but active.
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#25
Kings113 said:
I don't take away much from that game other than Peja's shot, Garcia/Martin/Skinner/Price/Flores/KT. I knew the Suns would and will still be a high-scoring team, just much smaller, but active.
Actually not much smaller at all, unless Steven Hunter is counted (and they could use him back). Basically right now they've substituted Bell for Johnson -- Bell is the same size. James for Q, and James is actually larger, and Thomas for Amare -- both the same size. They should be similar on the glass and defensively with Thomas a more rugged but less athletic post guy. Thing they are missing now is not really so much size, but the ability to score inside. Not only Amare, but Q and his guard post game too.
 
#26
Blah, I didn't mean to post that as much smaller. I forgot to edit and clarify what I intended to post.

I know all that, Brick. ;)

But one thing to say, Q-Rich's post-game was actually not utilized often, as it was with the Clippers and of course in college.
 
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#27
I wouldn't say that the Suns are fine. The Kings basically mailed this game in and for awhile in the second quarter I saw Ronnie Price and Erik Sandrin out there against the first team of Phoenix. The WILL struggle without Stoudamire.
 
#28
Ray Allen34 said:
all suns need to do is be a few games above 500 by the time amare returns and they can still go on a run and win their division. If they don't and they get the 6th seed, they will be the one team no one will want to face at all. Certainly not at that position
based on how most players came back after the microfracture, i wouldn't count on anything out of amare this year. if he does come back the way he was before, i doubt it's going to happen any sooner then a year after the surgery.

i think the suns might make the playoffs, but they aren't going anywhere with a hobbled amare.
 
#30
Bricklayer said:
Actually not much smaller at all, unless Steven Hunter is counted (and they could use him back). Basically right now they've substituted Bell for Johnson -- Bell is the same size. James for Q, and James is actually larger, and Thomas for Amare -- both the same size. They should be similar on the glass and defensively with Thomas a more rugged but less athletic post guy. Thing they are missing now is not really so much size, but the ability to score inside. Not only Amare, but Q and his guard post game too.
This team now resembles Seattle a lot more than the Suns of last year. They will play a different game, probably not go off for 107 a night, but will still be a team to be dealt with. Without Amare, they can still put up a fight against most teams and will, I think, develop a new chemistry and system that can help them win. The Pacific will be a dogfight this year.

One other thing to keep in mind- Amare coming back late in the season in no way gaurantees the Suns making a big push at the end. We should know that as well as anyone.