Bee: Tough times hurting Bibby

#61
according to three sources close to the team who didn't want to be identified because they were not authorized to speak
I've always failed to understand that quote that was written in many trade rumors.
It has come out into the public. Whoever was in the room discussing the trade knows who was there. I do not understand why would they say that the Kings and Cavs had talks about Bibby knowing they would get clipped in the gluteous maximus whether they said their name or not to the press.

unless of course teams have hundreds of "sources"
 
#62
If we do trade with the Cavaliers we HAVE to get Sasha Pavlovic. This guy had a fantastic game today and gaurded Kobe extremely well. I know it doesn't seem like it in the box score, but Sasha did a good job on himl.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#63
If we do trade with the Cavaliers we HAVE to get Sasha Pavlovic. This guy had a fantastic game today and gaurded Kobe extremely well. I know it doesn't seem like it in the box score, but Sasha did a good job on himl.

We have Kevin Martin already
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#65
Just because someone has a good game doesn't mean we automatically have to try and find a way to fit them on our team. There are 30 teams in the league, you know.
 
#66
Just because someone has a good game doesn't mean we automatically have to try and find a way to fit them on our team. There are 30 teams in the league, you know.
Actually over the past 3 weeks, when he has been given good playing time (15 minutes or more) he has really proven that he can play well.

Check out this article of his game today against the Lakers:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/recap;_ylt=Ai15ENpLldmhdaRVfT9Dx.E5nYcB?gid=2007021105

This is my favorite part:

"I feel like a prophet," said James, who has been praising Pavlovic for weeks. "People were looking at me crazy. I've always said that if Sasha gets the opportunity, he is going to be very good. We go against each other in practice and I know what type of player he is."

"He's showing it."
 
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#67
I do feel Mike..he's done nothing but carry this team on his back when the glory years were over! He's never complained or whined (Peja, Chris..) and all he is doing now is making it clear he wants to finish his career in SAC! He is being real, and basically letting us know his feeling got hurt by the boos? I am a Mike Bibby fan and will continue to be. There is no way he is passed his prime...he's had a bad year, and is putting in work to get thru it. I really don't think there is much more you can ask of a player. Assists? Are we watching the same team? Pass to who beside K-Mart? Artest is like the little kid who thinks he doesn't get enough shots so jacks up 3's and off balance jumpers whenever he feels somebody else might be looking too good. Brad Miller is the most overrated player Sac has ever had...SOFT, lazy and HE pouts and whines like nobody else! Kenny Thomas? Sharif is needs the ball in certain post up situations, etc, etc...and quite comparing him to Nash, Kidd, and other guards in the league. When he has the same type personel and those guys we can talk.
Had to vent..these anti-Mike Bibby posts really irritate me. I am a KINGS fan first, but have felt really disappointed in some of my fellow Kings fans concerning Mike. Nobody here knows what Mike would do, if he would leave just for the $$ or not. Based on what I've read about him he is an extremely loyal guy...I just know I would love for him to retire a KING.
 
#69
I do feel Mike..he's done nothing but carry this team on his back when the glory years were over! He's never complained or whined (Peja, Chris..) and all he is doing now is making it clear he wants to finish his career in SAC! He is being real, and basically letting us know his feeling got hurt by the boos? I am a Mike Bibby fan and will continue to be. There is no way he is passed his prime...he's had a bad year, and is putting in work to get thru it. I really don't think there is much more you can ask of a player. Assists? Are we watching the same team? Pass to who beside K-Mart? Artest is like the little kid who thinks he doesn't get enough shots so jacks up 3's and off balance jumpers whenever he feels somebody else might be looking too good. Brad Miller is the most overrated player Sac has ever had...SOFT, lazy and HE pouts and whines like nobody else! Kenny Thomas? Sharif is needs the ball in certain post up situations, etc, etc...and quite comparing him to Nash, Kidd, and other guards in the league. When he has the same type personel and those guys we can talk.
Had to vent..these anti-Mike Bibby posts really irritate me. I am a KINGS fan first, but have felt really disappointed in some of my fellow Kings fans concerning Mike. Nobody here knows what Mike would do, if he would leave just for the $$ or not. Based on what I've read about him he is an extremely loyal guy...I just know I would love for him to retire a KING.


i feel yah man these guys just hate on mike and forget what he's done for us, if bibby gets traded look for him to become an instant all star we have a weak line up who else can score besides k-mart? artest? no one so don't blame mike blame everyone else besides mike
 
#70
i think we can rebuild with bibby in the plan he's one of better guards in the nba i want bibby to say
freeing up cap space is important if we're going to rebuild and we can do that with bibby. moving artest is important too, we can't rebuild without actually moving our starters for picks and young players, that's kind of a basic of rebuilding.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#71
Had to vent..these anti-Mike Bibby posts really irritate me. I am a KINGS fan first, but have felt really disappointed in some of my fellow Kings fans concerning Mike. Nobody here knows what Mike would do, if he would leave just for the $$ or not. Based on what I've read about him he is an extremely loyal guy...I just know I would love for him to retire a KING.

Just a bit of advice...whether it is wanted or not. If you are going to be upset at others for what you perceive at "anti-Bibby," then the way to do that is show why you thing Bibby is wonderful, or your favorite, or whatever. Ragging on our other players would seem a bit hypocritical to many people.
While I understand your sentiment, I think most people really like Bibby, but because of the size of his contract, feel we can get the most in trade for him.
 
#72
I'll take that critique, however my intent was only to bring up other players faults who don't get even half the criticism Bibby does (except C-Webb ;)) This place was a lovefest for Peja, even when he said he wanted out and he was never the big game player Mike is. I keep reading "quit whining, be lucky you get paid all that money" Well...like I said, who whines and loafs more than Miller? And I also feel it is a fans right to tell it like it is and not always turn a blind eye to reality. Mikes defense IS lacking, he IS having a bad shooting year, BUT he has given us so much more and I feel he deserves more respect from Kings fans. A lot of us have just thrown him under the bus after actually HALF a bad season...a lot of which he's been injured. Like I said, it's my venting, if I can't do it here, where? :(
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#74
I'll take that critique, however my intent was only to bring up other players faults who don't get even half the criticism Bibby does (except C-Webb ;)) This place was a lovefest for Peja, even when he said he wanted out and he was never the big game player Mike is. I keep reading "quit whining, be lucky you get paid all that money" Well...like I said, who whines and loafs more than Miller? And I also feel it is a fans right to tell it like it is and not always turn a blind eye to reality. Mikes defense IS lacking, he IS having a bad shooting year, BUT he has given us so much more and I feel he deserves more respect from Kings fans. A lot of us have just thrown him under the bus after actually HALF a bad season...a lot of which he's been injured. Like I said, it's my venting, if I can't do it here, where? :(
You have every right to voice your opinion, bperiod. And you've done it without breaking any of our rules, so I don't think there's a problem. Don't worry about it. Your perspective is just as valid as anyone else's.
 
#75
All will be good with Mike if he gets back to playing his game. He's trying too much right now...not letting it come to him.

He's making it much harder on himself then need be.

Just play within the flow. Like riding a bike...keep getting back on. You'll get it eventually.
 
#77
yeah, but for 50 games??
Wow, somebody with pic of Reggie Theus you'd think would feel Mikes pain, LOL (one of my favorite players of all time by the way ;) )

I guess I'll just have to resign to the fact Bibby has been written off around here. Not to mention his minutes the last 2 games. The guy only took 11 shots last night, had 5 assists, based on all the folks calling for his head around here we should have won by 20, right?
I just hope this doesn't come back to bite us. He is only 28 years old, and will make another team exceptionally better. (Miami, Cleveland...) You cannot put a price on what that man does down the stretch of games, over and over again. (Big sigh...:( ) I'd just like to wrap this up by saying if we let him go, trade him for the better of the team...fine, but I still don't agree with boo'ing the guy...he has done nothing to deserve that. But then again...fans were chanting MVP for Kobe IN ARCO!?
 
#78
I do feel Mike..he's done nothing but carry this team on his back when the glory years were over! He's never complained or whined (Peja, Chris..) and all he is doing now is making it clear he wants to finish his career in SAC! He is being real, and basically letting us know his feeling got hurt by the boos? I am a Mike Bibby fan and will continue to be. There is no way he is passed his prime...he's had a bad year, and is putting in work to get thru it. I really don't think there is much more you can ask of a player. Assists? Are we watching the same team? Pass to who beside K-Mart? Artest is like the little kid who thinks he doesn't get enough shots so jacks up 3's and off balance jumpers whenever he feels somebody else might be looking too good. Brad Miller is the most overrated player Sac has ever had...SOFT, lazy and HE pouts and whines like nobody else! Kenny Thomas? Sharif is needs the ball in certain post up situations, etc, etc...and quite comparing him to Nash, Kidd, and other guards in the league. When he has the same type personel and those guys we can talk.
Had to vent..these anti-Mike Bibby posts really irritate me. I am a KINGS fan first, but have felt really disappointed in some of my fellow Kings fans concerning Mike. Nobody here knows what Mike would do, if he would leave just for the $$ or not. Based on what I've read about him he is an extremely loyal guy...I just know I would love for him to retire a KING.
1. Assists - PGs find a way to create opportunities for your teammate and getting them at the position where they have a higher % of converting, setting up the offense etc. Maybe the system isnt PG heavy but still that is something the PGs do. If you say that the other players are not good enough to make those shots that Bibby is creating for them then maybe earlier when his assists were high he had better teammates like Webb, Vlade, Peja to make those tough shots as well. It goes both ways

2. Hmmm, so you are content with what Bibby is giving you, no defense and no offense either. How long will you accept that putting in effort thing, most fans feel that he is not even putting in the effort and thats the problem. It is very easy to play one end of the floor and score, if that itself is becoming a problem then there is booing to be heard

3. Sharif needs the ball in certain areas to be effective - BINGO, the PG is supposed to get him the ball there

4. Artest - Thats a known thing, you take his defense and his off balance jumper, for all you know he seems to be shooting better than Bibby this year. 43.7% FG Vs 38.7 FG% from bibby, 33.6 3 PT% vs 30.1 from Bibby. So this year his off balance jumper seems to be doing better than the great shots that bibby is taking. We are not talking about one game here and there we are talking about the whole season and that FG% stinks.

5. Bibby last year shot 43% FG and Artest shot 38%, but shot 46% in Indiana before the trade. You have to give him leeway to understand the system, but the point is that Artest seems to be playing much better than Bibby even on offense and there is no debate on the defensive side. Though his defense has been deteriorating, still any number you compare with 0 is always going to be significant.

6. Think about the salary of the people you are making comparisons with , Bibby 12.5 mil, Brad 9.6, Ron 7.1, Kenny 6.7 and Sharif 5.4. Bibby is supposed to bring in atleast 2.5 times the value that SAR brings to the table.

7. Why not compare him to Nash or Kidd, doesnt he make the same kind of money, more than nash and less than kidd. What kind of talent do the nets have, washed up vince carter, injured RJ, ancient cliff.
He took the team twice to the finals and people cant even remember anyone else on that team that went to the finals other than RJ.

8. You rightly said that you are a kings fan first, then why wouldnt you boo Bibby. If its a business you can fire him for not performing, since you cant do that here you can only boo.
 
#79
yeah, but for 50 games??
It happens. There are a few factors for Mike...

1) The ability to get a new contract at season end with his opt out clause. He obviously wanted to play well to get a good contract

2) He did have that injury which changed the way he released his shot.

3) A new coach/system

4) The added muscle he's put on...you can't put on muscle if you're a shooter.

Combine all that, and, it's been difficult for him.

Guys will bat .250 prior to the break in baseball, then hit .375 the rest of the season. It happens...in all sports.

He's obviously not having a Bibby year...and IMO, he's not helping his chances with his questionable shot selection...but it's just a funk
 
#80
1. Assists - PGs find a way to create opportunities for your teammate and getting them at the position where they have a higher % of converting, setting up the offense etc. Maybe the system isnt PG heavy but still that is something the PGs do. If you say that the other players are not good enough to make those shots that Bibby is creating for them then maybe earlier when his assists were high he had better teammates like Webb, Vlade, Peja to make those tough shots as well. It goes both ways

2. Hmmm, so you are content with what Bibby is giving you, no defense and no offense either. How long will you accept that putting in effort thing, most fans feel that he is not even putting in the effort and thats the problem. It is very easy to play one end of the floor and score, if that itself is becoming a problem then there is booing to be heard

3. Sharif needs the ball in certain areas to be effective - BINGO, the PG is supposed to get him the ball there

4. Artest - Thats a known thing, you take his defense and his off balance jumper, for all you know he seems to be shooting better than Bibby this year. 43.7% FG Vs 38.7 FG% from bibby, 33.6 3 PT% vs 30.1 from Bibby. So this year his off balance jumper seems to be doing better than the great shots that bibby is taking. We are not talking about one game here and there we are talking about the whole season and that FG% stinks.

5. Bibby last year shot 43% FG and Artest shot 38%, but shot 46% in Indiana before the trade. You have to give him leeway to understand the system, but the point is that Artest seems to be playing much better than Bibby even on offense and there is no debate on the defensive side. Though his defense has been deteriorating, still any number you compare with 0 is always going to be significant.

6. Think about the salary of the people you are making comparisons with , Bibby 12.5 mil, Brad 9.6, Ron 7.1, Kenny 6.7 and Sharif 5.4. Bibby is supposed to bring in atleast 2.5 times the value that SAR brings to the table.

7. Why not compare him to Nash or Kidd, doesnt he make the same kind of money, more than nash and less than kidd. What kind of talent do the nets have, washed up vince carter, injured RJ, ancient cliff.
He took the team twice to the finals and people cant even remember anyone else on that team that went to the finals other than RJ.

8. You rightly said that you are a kings fan first, then why wouldnt you boo Bibby. If its a business you can fire him for not performing, since you cant do that here you can only boo.
1) Seems like you proved my point?

2) I agreed with him having a bad season, but he also is working to rectify it by being the first one to show up and put in extra shots, etc. AGAIN, he has always been 'team' defender, not a one on one defender and nobody here was complaining when we were winning and he was hitting shot after shot. Please don't tell me Steve Nash is a even avg defender...because he's not. But they are winning and other players help hide his defensive liablities.

3) Hmmm, so I guess it's been everybody elses fault that as good a scorer Sharif is, he's never won until he got here and he keeps getting traded?

4) This is 1/2 a season? Gimme a break. Mike is a career 44% shooter and 37% 3 pt shooter. Artest try 42% & 32%...and that's not even considering Mike's a guard and doesn't get as many "easy" buckets as Ron should?

5) See 4, Artest has a career HORRIBLE percentage for a forward.

6) Mike got paid based off what he did for us when it counted..in the PLAYOFFS..everybody knows that. He struck while the iron was hot. I never blame a player for that. Sharif has never come up big anytime anywhere. I am not a Sharif hater, I think he is a gifted offensive player on the block..but history speaks here.

7) Jason Kidd is an elite point guard..but he's a differnet player. When was the last time he hit a game winner? When was the last time he carried a team when everybody else seemed to have froze up or choked? At that time he had a dominate Kenyon Martin, and another high flyer in RJ...who can Mike just through the ball up to for an easy dunk? Never happens. Steve Nash is another great player however...the guy was in Dallas a LONG time and won nothing. Matter of fact Mike used to roast him. Why did Dallas all of a sudden go to the finals AFTER he left? It's the situation you are put in, system etc...Matter of fact...Dallas fans BOOED Nash when he first got there.

8) That is not the definition of a fan to me, booing the minute one of my players falls on tough times. It's to support them and give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Mike's history with the Kings proves otherwise. AND he's never done anything remotely deserving of being thrown under the bus.

Like I said...Kings first. BUT show some class to a player who has given us some of the best moments in our history. AND that wants to stay a KING. There was a time when we would beg for any player that even wanted to be a damn King. LOL IF he's traded so be it...but I will not boo Mike Bibby. I am understanding little better why professinal players show no loyalty now. They do make the $$ but why would they be loyal when a 1/2 a season slump erases years of fantastic play?
 
#81
1) Seems like you proved my point?

2) I agreed with him having a bad season, but he also is working to rectify it by being the first one to show up and put in extra shots, etc. AGAIN, he has always been 'team' defender, not a one on one defender and nobody here was complaining when we were winning and he was hitting shot after shot. Please don't tell me Steve Nash is a even avg defender...because he's not. But they are winning and other players help hide his defensive liablities.

3) Hmmm, so I guess it's been everybody elses fault that as good a scorer Sharif is, he's never won until he got here and he keeps getting traded?

4) This is 1/2 a season? Gimme a break. Mike is a career 44% shooter and 37% 3 pt shooter. Artest try 42% & 32%...and that's not even considering Mike's a guard and doesn't get as many "easy" buckets as Ron should?

5) See 4, Artest has a career HORRIBLE percentage for a forward.

6) Mike got paid based off what he did for us when it counted..in the PLAYOFFS..everybody knows that. He struck while the iron was hot. I never blame a player for that. Sharif has never come up big anytime anywhere. I am not a Sharif hater, I think he is a gifted offensive player on the block..but history speaks here.

7) Jason Kidd is an elite point guard..but he's a differnet player. When was the last time he hit a game winner? When was the last time he carried a team when everybody else seemed to have froze up or choked? At that time he had a dominate Kenyon Martin, and another high flyer in RJ...who can Mike just through the ball up to for an easy dunk? Never happens. Steve Nash is another great player however...the guy was in Dallas a LONG time and won nothing. Matter of fact Mike used to roast him. Why did Dallas all of a sudden go to the finals AFTER he left? It's the situation you are put in, system etc...Matter of fact...Dallas fans BOOED Nash when he first got there.

8) That is not the definition of a fan to me, booing the minute one of my players falls on tough times. It's to support them and give them the benefit of the doubt until they prove otherwise. Mike's history with the Kings proves otherwise. AND he's never done anything remotely deserving of being thrown under the bus.

Like I said...Kings first. BUT show some class to a player who has given us some of the best moments in our history. AND that wants to stay a KING. There was a time when we would beg for any player that even wanted to be a damn King. LOL IF he's traded so be it...but I will not boo Mike Bibby. I am understanding little better why professinal players show no loyalty now. They do make the $$ but why would they be loyal when a 1/2 a season slump erases years of fantastic play?
1. likewise

2. Nash is a lot better scorer, playmaker than bibby. He has greater FG%. They both suck at defense but with nash atleast I get the feeling that he is trying, he seems to hustle, that is something I havent seen in bibby. Fortunately for bibby his glory days were playing pick and roll with shaq on the other side. You know that everyone in the league scores on that play. He has hit a few clutch shots but when you are the guy taking that shot almost always you make some and miss some. I dont think he is that clutch as he is made out to be (if you take out the pick and roll on shaq out )

3. What has bibby won, I am sorry i missed that part where he won.
SAR has played for VAN for 5 years, 3 in ATL, 2 in POR and 2 here. Thats not too many teams, he has been steady with all those teams that he has played with and it is his injury that has caused some downside of late (last two years)

4. Well you can argue both ways about ease of scoring for a guard. You play a pick and roll with a center, you get a great open shot. When you play pick and roll with a forward, the center can do a much better job on a forward than a guard. i dont think it makes a difference. Well this year he really sucky on offense and without O he is useless.

5. See 4, it was in response to your comparison to Arest "THIS" year about taking off balance shots. I know that Artest is not a good shooter

6. Exactly, he got paid top dollars after ONE playoff performance and that too playing pick and roll with shaq, what has he done after that for that kind of money.

7. So was Kenyon dominant because of Kidd or was he good to make kidd look better. History shows that kidd makes everyone around him better. Was bibby able to hit those open shots because the other teams were afraid to leave Vlade or Webb open or was it because he was able to create shots. What has happened to that pick and roll now or even last year.

8. To boo or to not is a personal opinion and you could chose either way, but I dont think you defend your arguments for not booing him. He just isnt putting in the effort and many fans feel that booing is the way of expressing that. Thats the beginning, then they will stop coming to games and finally the owners will need to make a change
 
#82
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/rumors/...lt=AlWuRw5xEDyfVyT7LBdTXrWL0bYF?urn=nba,24164

NBA Rumors

Bibby to Cavs trade dead, unless ...

Monday, Feb 12, 2007 12:15 pm EST


The Cleveland Cavaliers and Sacramento Kings were discussing a trade several weeks ago that would send point guard Mike Bibby to the Cavs, but sources indicate the talks are long dead.
There is no natural deal unless a third team gets involved. With the exception of LeBron James, the Cavs made everyone on their roster available in pursuit of Bibby. The Kings had interest in Drew Gooden because of their need for frontcourt rebounding and scoring. The talks were mostly cursory.
Source: Beacon Journal
 
#83
\3. What has bibby won, I am sorry i missed that part where he won.
SAR has played for VAN for 5 years, 3 in ATL, 2 in POR and 2 here. Thats not too many teams, he has been steady with all those teams that he has played with and it is his injury that has caused some downside of late (last two years)
Had the Kings made a few more free throws in Game 7 or had Dick Bavetta not reffed Game 6, Bibby would have been Finals MVP in 2002. You can put that in the bank.

SAR, on the other hand, first made the playoffs last year, and wasn't much of a factor.
 

piksi

Hall of Famer
#84
1. likewise

2. Nash is a lot better scorer, playmaker than bibby. He has greater FG%. They both suck at defense but with nash atleast I get the feeling that he is trying, he seems to hustle, that is something I havent seen in bibby. Fortunately for bibby his glory days were playing pick and roll with shaq on the other side. You know that everyone in the league scores on that play. He has hit a few clutch shots but when you are the guy taking that shot almost always you make some and miss some. I dont think he is that clutch as he is made out to be (if you take out the pick and roll on shaq out )

3. What has bibby won, I am sorry i missed that part where he won.
SAR has played for VAN for 5 years, 3 in ATL, 2 in POR and 2 here. Thats not too many teams, he has been steady with all those teams that he has played with and it is his injury that has caused some downside of late (last two years)

4. Well you can argue both ways about ease of scoring for a guard. You play a pick and roll with a center, you get a great open shot. When you play pick and roll with a forward, the center can do a much better job on a forward than a guard. i dont think it makes a difference. Well this year he really sucky on offense and without O he is useless.

5. See 4, it was in response to your comparison to Arest "THIS" year about taking off balance shots. I know that Artest is not a good shooter

6. Exactly, he got paid top dollars after ONE playoff performance and that too playing pick and roll with shaq, what has he done after that for that kind of money.

7. So was Kenyon dominant because of Kidd or was he good to make kidd look better. History shows that kidd makes everyone around him better. Was bibby able to hit those open shots because the other teams were afraid to leave Vlade or Webb open or was it because he was able to create shots. What has happened to that pick and roll now or even last year.

8. To boo or to not is a personal opinion and you could chose either way, but I dont think you defend your arguments for not booing him. He just isnt putting in the effort and many fans feel that booing is the way of expressing that. Thats the beginning, then they will stop coming to games and finally the owners will need to make a change
other then Kobe's elbow - he won the national championship in college
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#85
8. To boo or to not is a personal opinion and you could chose either way, but I dont think you defend your arguments for not booing him. He just isnt putting in the effort and many fans feel that booing is the way of expressing that. Thats the beginning, then they will stop coming to games and finally the owners will need to make a change
WRONG! It's not many fans; it's a small loud contingency that is making fools of themselves and making Kings fans look like a bunch of jerks.

The beginning of the booing started when some people booed Webber back in 2004 and it's been a deplorable act by some ever since. And it hasn't helped our team OR our reputaton around the league at all.

As far as the booing being the beginning, be very careful what you wish for...
 
#86
Bibby thread

The fans chanting MVP for Kobe at Arco were all wearing Laker gear and were Laker fans! Good grief! King's fans will never be heard rooting for Kobe Bryant at ARCO. Annie.
 
#87
I never expected his slump to last this long. I honestly couldn't imagine him playing this poorly for such a long period of time. Especially for a guy as tough minded as Bibby
 
#89
other then Kobe's elbow - he won the national championship in college
Word! ;)

To be honest...I am tired of this conversation. Some people have very short memories and it's looking more and more like he's going to be traded. Just like Chris, I will always be a fan (however my son will probably break down in tears :() I just don't like the way "some" of us seem to turn on real KINGS so quickly..it seems to happen quicker and more frequently each time. But once Mike is gone I guess I won't have to worry about it...because he is the last of the best Kings team in our history!
 
#90
On the booing...

I agree with the booing, no it may not help the team or motivate the team and some fans say well than why boo your home team? Well if you pay your hard earned money and the guys on the floor don't look like they are giving the effort or they are playing lousy you have the right to boo IMO and there is nothing wrong with it.