Bee: NBA chief coming to town

#31
The reason why these measures lost was simply because no one on the Pro side had their **** together and I don't even think the Maloofs wanted it to pass in the first place as they don't want the Arena down in the railyards.
 
#32
The reason why these measures lost was simply because no one on the Pro side had their **** together and I don't even think the Maloofs wanted it to pass in the first place as they don't want the Arena down in the railyards.
Nah, it lost because it was a crappy deal. Andrew Carnegie couldn't have sold that deal. I've met Rob Fong; he's no Andrew Carnegie.

Anyway, if you move the Kings to somewhere near Marysville, you automatically convert a lot of folks in southern Sac county, Yolo county, and in other places to Warrior fans. How long does it take me to get from Greenhaven to Marysville?

Allow me to translate that for you: "Hello, Warriors?".

I've personally been wondering about Dixon Downs. Seems to me they'll have the infrastructure and the location. With that location, you automatically convert a bunch of Warrior fans to Kings fans. Greenhaven to Dixon isn't that much different from Greenhaven to Natomas, frankly.

By the way, I think Stern's visit to Sac cannot possibly address the core issue: Where's the money supposed to come from? Corporations? No. TV? No. Taxpayers? Umm, what part of 80-20 do you not understand? Remember, in all likelihood, they have to get to 2/3 + 1.

Fargo said it at some point in the last few days, that if Stern isn't willing to address the league's financial issues from a higher level, they're looking at a smaller number of teams. The broken index finger that Sacramento represents isn't worth healing unless you take care of the severed artery at the wrist. More and more teams are bleeding cash. Addressing that issue team-by-team will not help. In fact, it may even hurt the situation.
 

VF21

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#33
So part-way to Marysville is out but Dixon would be okay?

You guys are getting mired down in details when all that's been proposed is that people realize the possibility of an arena a little further away. Auburn Hills is over 30 miles from downtown Detroit and yet the Pistons do okay.

A successful solution to this problem may require thinking a little outside the box. At this point, I think everyone should be looking at all possible scenarios and not eliminating them out of hand. The time to analyze and weed out the various options should happen AFTER the brain-storming, not during.

And if you're going to become a Warriors fan simply because they're a little closer geographically to you, then one has to wonder how strong your feelings are about the Kings anyway. And no, it's not about being a true fan. It's merely a response to the comments you made.
 
#35
Nah, it lost because it was a crappy deal. Andrew Carnegie couldn't have sold that deal. I've met Rob Fong; he's no Andrew Carnegie.

Anyway, if you move the Kings to somewhere near Marysville, you automatically convert a lot of folks in southern Sac county, Yolo county, and in other places to Warrior fans. How long does it take me to get from Greenhaven to Marysville?

Allow me to translate that for you: "Hello, Warriors?".

I've personally been wondering about Dixon Downs. Seems to me they'll have the infrastructure and the location. With that location, you automatically convert a bunch of Warrior fans to Kings fans. Greenhaven to Dixon isn't that much different from Greenhaven to Natomas, frankly.

By the way, I think Stern's visit to Sac cannot possibly address the core issue: Where's the money supposed to come from? Corporations? No. TV? No. Taxpayers? Umm, what part of 80-20 do you not understand? Remember, in all likelihood, they have to get to 2/3 + 1.

Fargo said it at some point in the last few days, that if Stern isn't willing to address the league's financial issues from a higher level, they're looking at a smaller number of teams. The broken index finger that Sacramento represents isn't worth healing unless you take care of the severed artery at the wrist. More and more teams are bleeding cash. Addressing that issue team-by-team will not help. In fact, it may even hurt the situation.
Maybe some day. But that isn't this day. There are more than enough cities willing to do what Sacramento can't. It's still cutting the nose off. The arena battle is THE issue. The NBA business battle is out of scope.
 
#36
Dixon is at least along the 80 corridor.....but I know, details.

As far as putting a new arena a considerable distance from downtown Sac - I am not saying that it will not happen, because it could and this has been done in many other cities. However, I will say (and I mean no disrespect to anyone by this) it is the dumbest idea I have heard to date IMHO for the reasons I have already offered.
 

VF21

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#37
Which is fine, if you want to start eliminating ideas before they've even been explored.

All I've ever asked is that people keep an open mind at this point. What part of that is so difficult?

ANY analyst will tell you that when you're facing a problem, you consider ALL the possible solutions, no matter how absurd or outlandish they may seem, first. AFTER you've decided what your real criteria for evaluation are, then and only then do you start eliminating some of the ideas that were brought up.

Saying it's a dumb idea is pretty close-minded, don't you think?
 
#38
Which is fine, if you want to start eliminating ideas before they've even been explored.

All I've ever asked is that people keep an open mind at this point. What part of that is so difficult?

ANY analyst will tell you that when you're facing a problem, you consider ALL the possible solutions, no matter how absurd or outlandish they may seem, first. AFTER you've decided what your real criteria for evaluation are, then and only then do you start eliminating some of the ideas that were brought up.

Saying it's a dumb idea is pretty close-minded, don't you think?
No it is not close minded. I have thought of this before. I have decided what my criteria are (see previous posts) and putting an arena far from downtown sac eliminates many, many of the benefits an arena can offer sactown.

I think that we are just starting from different premises. I think (correct me if I am wrong) your primary objective is to keep the Kings in Northern CA - just about at all costs. My primary objective is investment in the city core - with keeping the Kings a close second.
 

VF21

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#39
No it is not close minded. I have thought of this before. I have decided what my criteria are (see previous posts) and putting an arena far from downtown sac eliminates many, many of the benefits an arena can offer sactown.

I think that we are just starting from different premises. I think (correct me if I am wrong) your primary objective is to keep the Kings in Northern CA - just about at all costs. My primary objective is investment in the city core - with keeping the Kings a close second.
Correct for the most part. The "just about at all costs" part is judgmental at this point, as I've indicated.

If Sacramento city/county is too bone-headed IMHO to keep something like a professional sports franchise I don't think the rest of the area should have to suffer. If someone else wants to put up the ball the city/county has dropped, what possible objection could you - or they - have?
 
#40
If someone else wants to put up the ball the city/county has dropped, what possible objection could you - or they - have?
No objection really - just disappointment. I have not lost hope that one day I will be able to go downtown and walk right into what is now my avatar.
 
#41
Allow me to translate that for you: "Hello, Warriors?".
Wow...just wow. You obviously share no similar allegiances with us on this board if you are that fairweather. I understand your reasonings in this arena battle, but saying that you, and other diehards in Sacramento would convert to another team because of arena location is going a bit too far. Do you know the passion that runs through our veins?? Most of us have been fans since day one, and would NEVER, and I do mean NEVER...like any other team in the NBA other than the Kings. If the Kings built an arena in Marysville, I'd be the first on the waiting list for season tickets. If the Kings built an arena in Tahoe, I'd be the first one in line to get the bus caravan going up the hill. Like a few others have said...Marysville is alot closer than Anaheim or Kansas City. And if the Kings DO end up moving down the road, I wouldnt have a team, I guess...because there's no way in hell I'd LIKE another team, or even TRY to like, in the same way. The Sacramento Kings are a business, yes I do understand this...but the fans of it bleed no other blood than purple and black! Anyways...sorry for the 'rah rah go team!' rant there.
 
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#42
Wow...just wow. You obviously share no similar allegiances with us on this board if you are that fairweather. I understand your reasonings in this arena battle, but saying that you, and other diehards in Sacramento would convert to another team because of arena location is going a bit too far. Do you know the passion that runs through our veins?? Most of us have been fans since day one, and would NEVER, and I do mean NEVER...like any other team in the NBA other than the Kings. If the Kings built an arena in Marysville, I'd be the first on the waiting list for season tickets. If the Kings built an arena in Tahoe, I'd be the first one in line to get the bus caravan going up the hill. Like a few others have said...Marysville is alot closer than Anaheim or Kansas City. And if the Kings DO end up moving down the road, I wouldnt have a team, I guess...because there's no way in hell I'd LIKE another team, or even TRY to like, in the same way. The Sacramento Kings are a business, yes I do understand this...but the fans of it bleed no other blood than purple and black! Anyways...sorry for the 'rah rah go team!' rant there.
I don't think that's practical at all. You think Kings fans who live in Stockton would travel to Marysville to see the Kings? Your logon name says it all... I can rattle off a few names, too: Joe Klein instead of Chris Mullin (OUCH!); Pervis instead of, well, just about anybody, but Tim Hardaway; Wayman Tisdale; Positive Dave (RIP) singing "Stand By Your Kings" on Ned Plaid's old show...

I go back a while. Moved here in 1964, from Chico.

Fans are far more practical than you think. Case in point: When the Warriors had to play in San Jose for a season while the contractor renovated Oracle, their fan base walked. Took them YEARS to recover.

Man, if the Kings moved to Dixon, they'd pick up twice as many fans as they'd lose. Just as I don't entertain the idea of going to a Warriors game now (too far), I would never go to a game in Marysville.

But Marysville is such a huge pipe-dream anyway. Talk about a hypothetical. Wow. I can't see how that county would fund that. What'd that be, a 2 cent increase in the sales tax for 40 years? And I'd get to go up and down 99 20 times a year? Woohoo. Party time. Not.

Dixon, being in Yolo County, makes sense. Much easier to form a JPA with Yolo County; draw fans from Solano and Contra Costa. For Roseville fans, it's a 20 minute longer drive. For folks like me, it's 10 minutes. That sure beats an additional hour each way...

This is just going to sound mean, and I don't want it to. But if the Kings move to Tahoe and you're volunteering to head the bus brigade, might I suggest that you need more hobbies. I know, what you're saying is a hypothetical, but the point is still the same: You'd pick up more fans than you'd lose by locating in Dixon.
 
#43
The Kings could move to Timbuktu and I wouldn't be a Warriors fan.
Just want to point out that this site isn't for the average fan who attends 3 games a year, and won't miss 'em that much if they leave. This is for the full-on, "all my clothes have Kings logos!", Lakers suck, faithful if the Kings move to Havana, fans.

The 1 in 100 fan. Okay, probably more like the 1 in 10 fan. The other 9 are saying, "I follow the Kings, but just want to see a good game."

I don't think the practicality of the average fan is appreciated in a forum like this.

Would the guy who lives in Solano who follows the Kings continue to follow them if it was 1 hour to Oracle vs 2 hours to Marysville? Well, for 9 out of 10, I bet they wouldn't.

While I'm posting, I just gotta ask: Marysville?

Folks, forget it. Just forget someone posted that idea. That's as likely as a Ronnie Price for Yao Ming and five Houston first-round picks trade.

Please. At least keep the conversation within the scope of possibility.

The Kings WILL move to Anaheim before they even think about Marysville.
 

VF21

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#44
I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but you haven't garnered much credibility around here. And no, this site isn't for the average fan who won't miss the Kings if they leave...

Fans don't have to be practical. If you cannot allow the discussion to proceed without forcing YOUR restrictions on it, why not just find a site where people don't really give a rat's patoot? Maybe something about Dixon Downs?

Give it a rest, already.

Edit: One more thing?

Would the guy who lives in Solano who follows the Kings continue to follow them if it was 1 hour to Oracle vs 2 hours to Marysville? Well, for 9 out of 10, I bet they wouldn't.
I don't think we're talking about the guy who lives in Solano to the exclusion of anyone else. And especially not if you compare him to the fans who live in Sacramento, Placer, Yolo or even Yuba County.
 
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#45
I know this is going to come as a shock to you, but you haven't garnered much credibility around here. And no, this site isn't for the average fan who won't miss the Kings if they leave...

Fans don't have to be practical. If you cannot allow the discussion to proceed without forcing YOUR restrictions on it, why not just find a site where people don't really give a rat's patoot? Maybe something about Dixon Downs?

Give it a rest, already.
Please VF, speak for yourself. Arena Skeptic has a lot of credibility with me. I cannot say that I agree with most of his opinions. However, his observations are astute. His posts are well thought-out, intelligent and give a strong voice to reason. Like I said, I see the world differently than AS, but let's give credit where credit is due.

On a related note, a funny image came to me last night:
Marysville - host of the 2012 All-Star Weekend.
 

VF21

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#46
You might be the exception that proves the rule, kupman. Read the comments of the other people who are active in this forum. I did before I posted that comment...
 
#47
Just want to point out that this site isn't for the average fan who attends 3 games a year, and won't miss 'em that much if they leave.
Most of the years I've been a Kings fan, I couldn't afford to go to any games. Now that I can afford a few games a year, I am not more of a fan than when I couldn't attend any. Just as rabid when I couldn't see games live.

And when I lived in the Bay area (No Kings in Sac, then) I was most definitely not a Warriors fan and wouldn't have been if the tickets were free.
 
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#48
Stern's press conference

Stern's answer regarding the "unidentified Public Official" warmed the cockles of my heart. God, it is refreshing to see a Pro at work. I wish we had some around here, in public office.
 
#49
Just want to point out that this site isn't for the average fan who attends 3 games a year, and won't miss 'em that much if they leave. This is for the full-on, "all my clothes have Kings logos!", Lakers suck, faithful if the Kings move to Havana, fans.

I think you are far from correct. Kings leave, I no longer care what happens with regard to them.

As of right now, they may as well go to Anaheim, Mickey Mouse seems to succeed down there.
 

VF21

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SME
#50
Arena Skeptic - What you're failing to recognize is that the arena has a finite number of seats. If it is moved to Marsyville - or Dixon - or Lake Tahoe - or Clipper Mills - then they will indeed lose some fans who are not willing to travel the distance but they will undoubtedly pick up more who are now CLOSER than they were previously. It's all about selling the tickets. There is no doubt in my mind that as long as the Kings remain somewhere in northern California they will continue to do very well at the box office.

It doesn't have to be in downtown Sacramento. There are enough communities in the vicinity to undoubtedly pick up the slack - and believe me, they would. And a good number of season ticket holders would keep their seats, even if they had to travel a bit further.
 
#51
I hope the NBA bad business issue people are finally over their concerns about revenue sharing. Stern is working on it and has been for years. I know this may come as a shock, it won't have diddly squat to do with building an arena in Sacramento. That's for Stern and his owners to work out. There are enough tough problems to solve here without bringing in revenue sharing as some sort of an action item. And for those who wanted the NBA or it's players to finance the arena, you can go join Mayor Fargo on a snipe hunt because it's not going to happen.
Stern is standing up and putting himself up front. It's time for our city leaders to do some of the same.
 
#52
If it's not in downtown, I don't really want a new arena, and the Kings can leave. I agree with Kupman, why spend all that money to build an arena in an area that doesn't help Sacramento grow? The Maloofs will be able to continue to tread water for another 10 years or so with a new building in Natomas, but it won't be long before we're facing this same issue. The overarching issues here are the current NBA business model and the lack of corporations/TV revenue in the Sacramento region. A new arena in Natomas solves neither.

VF21, Auburn Hills is fairly old itself. Detroit's two new stadiums have been built in the downtown area. There's a reason for that. They also hosted a Super Bowl last year as a result and an All-Star game recently.

One more thing, we'll see how many cities are clamoring for NBA teams this summer, because it appears that the market will be flooded with them. Why? Because the NBA has a bad business model where small and mid-market teams struggle. They don't necessarily struggle to compete on the court, but they can't stay in their current cities due to lack of cash flow.
 
#53
If they were to actually figure out a way to do this with private money, my guess is it will be in Natomas. Then the city will not be able to build one downtown. A good reason for the city to come up with some of the money. Of course, they can't even come up with a dime of infrastructure money for development, so........
 
#54
The downtown arena is a fine idea in itself. Where it falls apart is the billion dollar price tag. The recent announcement about the railyard going forward was misleading. They only were talking about the Intermodal Transit area. That was only money to move some rail tracks around. They have no money to build the infrastructure for the retail and entertainment district. The deal that the city made with Thomas Ent. was that they would cover the infrastructure costs and the developer would build. It's a good deal because the future increase in property taxe revenue would more than cover the debt. But the city forgot the middle part where they have to come up with the money. IMO, that was the whole purpose behind the sales tax. They just wouldn't publicly admit to needing the cash to get the railyard underway. They tried to sell the measures as renewing and renovating the railyard. They were right, but the arena issue sunk them. I wonder if the sales tax measure would have had half a chance if the arena was left out of the picture. It should have just been a temporary sales tax to get the railyard infrastructure completed. The public backed similar taxes for transportation and the railyard is certainly worthy of public support. This does nothing for the arena, but now they have two issues that have been tangled together and both are on life support.
 
#55
I'm not sure the The City's portion of the revenue sharing plan for that temporary sales tax, would have been enough for the arena and the infrastructure. So if they'd signed an agreement with the Maloofs to spend it on the arena, where's the infrastructure money? Besides, the NBA and the Maloofs said they were misled by the City/County into believing the city had already identified other money for the infrastruture, when obviously they hadn't.