Bee: Martin puts rough game behind him

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http://www.sacbee.com/351/story/85105.html

Martin puts rough game behind him
The shooting guard blames only himself for his two-point outing.
By Sam Amick - Bee Staff Writer
Last Updated 6:28 am PST Thursday, November 30, 2006
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C4


When Kevin Martin finally came down from his mountain of momentum, his boss was there to offer some simple advice.

"(Kings president of basketball operations) Geoff (Petrie) told me the sun would come up today, and sure enough it did," Martin said.

One day after having his streak of eight consecutive 20-plus-point nights broken with a two-point outing Tuesday against the Los Angeles Clippers, Martin was ready to put the game behind him. The third-year shooting guard already had dissected the game tape until the early-morning hours after the Kings' 93-80 victory. The deduction? His 1-for-8 shooting had more to do with his own poor play than anything else.

"I made it easy for them to guard me," he said. "I just stood around and let myself get down after I missed a couple shots. I don't really think (the Clippers) did anything differently, except that when I came off of pick-and-rolls, they were (double-teaming)."

Martin's bigger concern was that he wasn't allowed to shoot his way through his slump. Coach Eric Musselman played Martin just 23 minutes and said Wednesday that his decision was about more than missed shots. Martin had no rebounds, steals or assists and made three turnovers.

"We understand that guys are going to have off-shooting nights, (but) when they do have off-shooting nights, we need them to contribute in other areas -- rebounding the ball, getting steals, not turning the ball over," Musselman said. "All those factor into it with ... not Kevin, but anybody. I think it's important that everyone understands and realizes that there are going to be nights when your shot doesn't fall. That happens to the greatest players in the history of the game. And when those shots don't fall, all the other intangibles become extremely important."

Musselman also said he liked the matchup of Kings swingman John Salmons on Shaun Livingston, who was nearly flawless offensively early but was slowed late.

"More than anything Kevin did wrong, the other guys did good," Musselman said. "John gave us some good size to cover Livingston. ... It was more how the pieces fit than anything (Martin) did wrong."

Musselman and Martin spoke after the game about the coach's decision, then conferred after Wednesday's practice in what Martin said was a good discussion.

Keep it moving -- The Mike Bibby battle cry for more ball movement has been answered since the Kings tallied a season-low 10 assists against San Antonio on Nov. 19.

The Kings' point guard said after Sacramento's 108-99 loss that there was no excuse for the stagnant offensive flow. In the four games since, the Kings have had 20 assists against Utah, 23 against Seattle, 19 against Portland and 21 against the Clippers. Entering Wednesday, the Kings ranked 20th in assists (19 per game). Last season, they ranked fifth at 22.3 assists per game.

Defensive display -- There were plenty of blown open looks, but there were plenty of contested shots, too.

That was Musselman's assessment of his team's defense against the Clippers, who were held to 30.6 percent shooting (30 for 98), an NBA season low.

"The guys really did a good job," Musselman said. "The defense has something to do with it. And we understand that (their) shots might not fall, or they may not have had all their players. Having said that, it's still an NBA game."

The 30.6 mark was the lowest by a Kings opponent since they held Miami to 29.8 percent (28 for 94) in a 96-70 home victory Jan. 5, 2003. The Rochester Royals set the franchise record when they held the St. Louis Hawks to 27 percent shooting Nov. 23, 1955.

About the writer: The Bee's Sam Amick can be reached at samick@ sacbee.com.
 
I was surprised to see Kevin benched but I can certainly understand the rationale.It's just something long-time Kings fans are going to have to get used to, I suspect. Different coach, different philosophy.
 
I was surprised to see Kevin benched but I can certainly understand the rationale.It's just something long-time Kings fans are going to have to get used to, I suspect. Different coach, different philosophy.

I somewhat understand, although it's one of the many reasons that Adelman, to my knowledge, never had a problem with any of his players while Musselman got booted out of Golden State. Coaches who bench their stars don't last long in this league.
 
I will take a win every time no regardless of who needs to be benched. As they say, a W is a W. People complained when Adelman left players in, and now people will complain when Muss takes them out. We can't have it both ways. Or can we?
 
I will take a win every time no regardless of who needs to be benched. As they say, a W is a W. People complained when Adelman left players in, and now people will complain when Muss takes them out. We can't have it both ways. Or can we?

Pretty narrow vision, IMHO. A W is a W has nothing to do with what is being discussed. I think Musselman pulled Kevin too early, but I think it's something they'll discuss and get past. According to Amick's article, they already have... And knowing the type of person Kevin is, I think he'll use this to his advantage, learning from it and continuing to improve his game.

Musselman has a track record of alienating players. For that reason alone, I'm going to be a little nervous about things like this.
 
I will take a win every time no regardless of who needs to be benched. As they say, a W is a W. People complained when Adelman left players in, and now people will complain when Muss takes them out. We can't have it both ways. Or can we?

It's a good question, but I think there can be a balance. It's not one or the other. When his team is losing badly you'll often see Phil Jackson go deep into the bench to find a combination that works. Even Adelman would sometimes leave guys in at the end of the game if it was working better. But having such a quick hook -- missing a few shots or make a mistake and you're riding pine -- that's just harmful, in my opinion. It's high school stuff.

So there's a difference between finding the right balance of players and sticking with what works vs. yanking your star player after he misses a few shots. One is treating it like it's a team issue and trying to find something that works, one is singling out an individual and showing him up.

NBA players are professionals and they expect to be treated as such. When coaches start showing up star players by benching them with such a quick hook, it starts to chafe. Pretty soon you have players hating their coach, next thing you know you have chemistry issues and then the whole thing blows up in your face. It happened to Musselman once. He's supposed to have learned his lesson. We'll see.
 
I somewhat understand, although it's one of the many reasons that Adelman, to my knowledge, never had a problem with any of his players while Musselman got booted out of Golden State. Coaches who bench their stars don't last long in this league.

This would be my largest concern on the matter.

Not that this one incident loses Kevin or whatnot, but that that quick hook has the potential to frustrate guys and over time it could cumlatively undermine Muss's authority. There was a certain wisdom to Rick's approach -- frustrate the fans, not your players.
 
But having such a quick hook -- missing a few shots or make a mistake and you're riding pine -- that's just harmful, in my opinion.
It seemed to be an odd move, yet it seemed to work. I like the justification Muss used though........

"Coach Eric Musselman played Martin just 23 minutes and said Wednesday that his decision was about more than missed shots. Martin had no rebounds, steals or assists and made three turnovers."

To me, that makes sense. At least contribute in other ways if possible. Again, it is going to take a while to get used to the new coach after watching Rick for so long, and I'll just sit here and hope his rotations don't hurt anyones feelings. I'm also hoping Martin will come back firing against the Mavs when we will really need his scoring.
 
A W is a W has nothing to do with what is being discussed. I think Musselman pulled Kevin too early, but I think it's something they'll discuss and get past.
How does the end result of a game have nothing to do with what is being discussed? Say Muss did leave Martin in, and Martin continued to struggle and ended up shooting 2-16, there are 8 shots for someone, who on that particular night, had a better chance of making them. If he leaves him in, a W is now most likely a L.
Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge, huge Kevin Martin fan, but lets face it, he wasn't shooting well. I think it was a wise move to pull him and ride what was working, and I also think Martin will rebound from the situation and come prepared for the next game.
 
How does the end result of a game have nothing to do with what is being discussed? Say Muss did leave Martin in, and Martin continued to struggle and ended up shooting 2-16, there are 8 shots for someone, who on that particular night, had a better chance of making them. If he leaves him in, a W is now most likely a L.

You don't know that. No one will ever know it because Musselman sent Kevin to the pine. And that is a huge concern for me. The team and the coaching staff are getting to know each other. Kevin is getting to know how it feels to be the target of other teams. It's a learning experience. You have to let him learn the lessons ON THE COURT. Players don't learn squat sitting on the bench.

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge, huge Kevin Martin fan, but lets face it, he wasn't shooting well. I think it was a wise move to pull him and ride what was working, and I also think Martin will rebound from the situation and come prepared for the next game.

Sorry, but I just do not agree with the "send 'em to the bench" philosophy. Smacks of high school junior varsity to me. Kevin was struggling but he wasn't just slacking off. He wasn't making stupid mistakes. He was being played tough for perhaps the first time this season. He NEEDS to learn how to adapt to that. Musselman could easily have pulled him for a bit, talked to him and sent him back in. Instead, he banished him. That is NOT the way to get the message to a player like Martin IMHO.
 
You don't know that. No one will ever know it because Musselman sent Kevin to the pine.
I am aware I don't "know" that, reason being I used the term "most likely". Odds weren't on his side that night, can we agree on that?



Kevin was struggling but he wasn't just slacking off. He wasn't making stupid mistakes.
2 points, 0 rebounds, 0 assists, 3 turnovers. He could have found other ways to contribute. Sorry, but he gets no free pass from me. He was off that night and the bench was the right place for him at that time.
 
I'm sorry, but I don't want to go back and forth on whether or not it was the right decision. Lets just leave it as we disagree on the benching and hope Martin comes to play on Friday.
 
Odds definitely weren't on his side. Yes, we do agree on that. All I'm saying is that you learn from your mistakes. Musselman could have handled things differently.

We can certainly agree to disagree, as long as you understand that I'm not trying to give Kevin a free pass as much as I'm objecting to the way in which Musselman pulled the trigger. He didn't even talk to Martin when Kev came off the court.

Martin will come to play Friday. You can take that to the bank.

;)

And one more thing? Two of those turnovers were offensive fouls that could easily have been called the other way. He was still trying, he was driving inside.

Okay, two more things. ;)

He had one rebound. I saw it and I believe I even commented on it in the PBP thread. He wasn't given credit for it, but he did have it.

:)
 
Musselman

Hook way to quick. This is not HS basketball. Looks to me like Muss is losing his players.

The new Kings look like Adelman's King's w/o Adelman. I suspect the players did this on their own after losing confidence in Muss' offense. He is making many enemies on the team:
KM quick hook of star
RA: schizo use of him. Sometimes he tries to take over games, other times afraid to shoot a three. Muss appears to have no control over him. Watch out.
K9 and SAR: one will be unhappy when BM returns as starter
MT: Supposed to be back up center yet rides pine when BM goes down
MB: Will think correctly that shooting 20+ times is good for offense and good for him in contract year, but will be prevented by Muss.
QB: Setting records for pine time as mid-first round pick
VP: Has not appeared yet, not even in pre-season
JH: Almost no appearance
BM: Needs slow-down game to excell, not defense and fast-breaking
RP: Schizo playing time.
FG: Not much PT, Adelman liked him better than Muss
Maloofs: we signed him for defense not Adelman-ball deja vu
 
"I made it easy for them to guard me," [Martin] said. "I just stood around and let myself get down after I missed a couple shots.

I think Kevin's head just wasn't in that game for some reason. I think it's being over-analyzed a bit.

One thing I'm hoping is, last season Kevin struggled on road games for another unknown reason.

However, he's been very consistent this season so far on the road.

So, it will be fun to see how he handles the next game on the road on Friday.
 
Hook way to quick. This is not HS basketball. Looks to me like Muss is losing his players.

The new Kings look like Adelman's King's w/o Adelman. I suspect the players did this on their own after losing confidence in Muss' offense. He is making many enemies on the team:

That was fantastic.

Anyway, Kevin looked tired and slow. He should have been pulled. Someone above me said this was being overblown. And it is.
 
Hook way to quick. This is not HS basketball. Looks to me like Muss is losing his players.

The new Kings look like Adelman's King's w/o Adelman. I suspect the players did this on their own after losing confidence in Muss' offense. He is making many enemies on the team:
KM quick hook of star
RA: schizo use of him. Sometimes he tries to take over games, other times afraid to shoot a three. Muss appears to have no control over him. Watch out.
K9 and SAR: one will be unhappy when BM returns as starter
MT: Supposed to be back up center yet rides pine when BM goes down
MB: Will think correctly that shooting 20+ times is good for offense and good for him in contract year, but will be prevented by Muss.
QB: Setting records for pine time as mid-first round pick
VP: Has not appeared yet, not even in pre-season
JH: Almost no appearance
BM: Needs slow-down game to excell, not defense and fast-breaking
RP: Schizo playing time.
FG: Not much PT, Adelman liked him better than Muss
Maloofs: we signed him for defense not Adelman-ball deja vu

Oh my. Talk about jumping off assumption cliff right into conclusion gorge without a net.
 
Gorge

Muss is in over his head, you will see.

By the way, seeing Muss talk to his main assistant Brooks looks like the trainer talking to the ballboy. It gives you a different impression then say Jackson talking to Winters or Karl talking to Moe, etc, etc.
 
Muss is in over his head, you will see.

By the way, seeing Muss talk to his main assistant Brooks looks like the trainer talking to the ballboy. It gives you a different impression then say Jackson talking to Winters or Karl talking to Moe, etc, etc.
By my count, you are now two for two. Once again, fantastic.
 
Muss is in over his head, you will see.

By the way, seeing Muss talk to his main assistant Brooks looks like the trainer talking to the ballboy. It gives you a different impression then say Jackson talking to Winters or Karl talking to Moe, etc, etc.


That's the only thing I really agree with. I don't really know how qualified any of our assistants are, but hey ya gotta start somewhere. But overall I think you're overanalyzing things.
 
By my count, you are now two for two. Once again, fantastic.

You two know each other by any chance?

KingsGuru - You've made a lot of vague comments and predictions, most of which without any basis in fact. And, to be perfectly honest, at least two or three them actually show a lack of knowledge about the Kings and the players.

Just as an example?
MT: Supposed to be back up center yet rides pine when BM goes down

Maurice Taylor is riding the pine because he pretty much is more valuable to the team there than anywhere else.

Here's another:

QB: Setting records for pine time as mid-first round pick

Wrong twice in one comment. First, the new guy's name is Quincy Douby, that's Douby with a "D"... Second, Quincy Douby is not going to see a lot of minutes right now. I'm not sure I would call him a mid-first round pick exactly. He was clearly not being bandied as one of the bright spots of the 2006 draft. He'll get a chance, but to try and insinuate that he's going to be bitter about not seeing much PT at this point in his career is just silly. Quincy is actually pretty happy to even be on a team.
 
That's the one thing that is very difficult to convey via merely the printed word.

:)
I was kinda hoping the context would bring it out, but when you assume...Plus I just can't bring myself to use those smiley thingys. Some sort of weird phobia.
 
Vf21

I think the misunderstanding is all yours. My oint was that a number of players are disatisifed. MT is because he was told he would be the back-up center, which he is not. He deserves pine, but that wasn't my oint.

With QD (I know it is Douby), name me a player this year anywhere in the first round who is not injured and playing less. Again, your comment suggests a basic misundestanding of my point. Despite his abilities QD would be justifiably miffed at seeing the least playing time of any first round draft choice. Another potential enemy of Muss

Before you comment, try to understand my posts.

Thank you
 
Thatguy

Looks to me like your the only one who know b-ball on the board.

A lot of wishful-thinking Sac homers on this board that know little or nothing about basketball (or comprehending posts, for that matter).
 
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