Bee: Kings dealing with a harsh reality

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
http://www.sacbee.com/351/story/458239.html

Kings dealing with a harsh reality
Team must find their way knowing their leader will be out 10 to 12 weeks.
By Sam Amick - samick@sacbee.com
Last Updated 1:39 am PDT Sunday, October 28, 2007
Story appeared in SPORTS section, Page C1


What happened in Vegas will stay with the Kings for some time, that day of misfortune when Mike Bibby fell in such a routine manner during practice at UNLV and tore a ligament while trying to brace himself.

Now, his team will try to do the same.

After Bibby had surgery on his left thumb Saturday morning, the Kings must brace themselves for the reality that their point guard will be out 10 to 12 weeks. The player long considered All-Star caliber leaves his position to players full of youth and inexperience, and a first-year coach with visions of returning the franchise to the playoffs is forced to forgo the big picture for now.

"I'm really big on being in the moment," Kings coach Reggie Theus said by phone. "Living in the moment means that you can't dwell on what you can't do. You have to dwell on where you are and how you can make it work. Do I realize that the reality is that it's going to be really tough? Yes. It was going to be tough with Mike. But it's going to be that much tougher, and I feel bad for him."

Bibby, who also suffered an injury last exhibition season, couldn't tough it out this time. Five exhibition games into the 2006-07 campaign, Bibby suffered an injury to his right shooting wrist and thumb during a game against New Orleans in Reno and was bothered by it for months. Nonetheless, he made a surprise start in the regular-season opener and logged 82 games while his ailing hand hurt his shot significantly.

Theus said the decision to operate rather than let Bibby's ligament heal was "a no-brainer" this time. The procedure was performed at the UC Davis Medical Center by Dr. Robert Szabo.

"(Bibby) knows that this was the only way out," Theus said.

While there were no immediate additions of a veteran free agent to serve as a Band-Aid of sorts, Theus said "there's no doubt we've got to get somebody in here."

In terms of signing a free agent, the Kings are over the salary cap and can offer only the minimum salary.

Although 17-year veteran Gary Payton is available, a more likely addition might be nine-year veteran Earl Boykins, who played for Milwaukee last season and remains unemployed. There will be an eye on Houston as well, as former Kings coach Rick Adelman has 19 players and only a few days left to trim down to the league limit of 15.

Guard John Lucas III, a third-year reserve, is expected to be waived Monday, and the Rockets have a glut of guards that includes Luther Head, Rafer Alston, Steve Francis, Mike James and rookie Aaron Brooks. Ironically, the Kings tried unsuccessfully to acquire a second draft pick in June with the intent of taking Brooks out of Oregon. Yet there might be a temptation to stand pat as well, to give the Kings' younger players trial-by-fire experience in the interest of a long-term plan of development.

While second-year guard Quincy Douby started in Bibby's place Friday against the Lakers, swingman Francisco García is capable of bringing the ball up and Orien Greene might offer the most conventional pick at the point. Defensively, Greene could help early as the Kings face speedy point guards Chris Paul (New Orleans) in Wednesday's opener and Tony Parker (San Antonio) on Friday. John Salmons would typically be a candidate as well, but he is expected to start for Ron Artest while he serves his seven-game league suspension to start the season that came as a result of his no-contest plea to domestic violence in May.

"I'm so used to Mike being out there on the court, having the ball in his hands, having him run the offense, that it's just not natural out there without him," Salmons said. "Somehow, we have to come together, to ... take up his slack. People don't realize how much of a (load) was on his shoulders, how much he helped us, how much he leads this team."

Greene, who has played alongside Bibby for less than a month, said it didn't take long to recognize his impact.

"He is a huge part of the offense," said Greene, a third-year player who was the primary backup to Delonte West in Boston two seasons ago. "We've got a lot of scorers, a lot of guys who can fill that void. But with him out, we've just got to hold it down until he gets back."

About the writer: Call The Bee's Sam Amick, (916) 326-5582.
 
Theus said "there's no doubt we've got to get somebody in here."

I think that's rather direct. Relying on PG by committee for a few months is not going to cut it according to coach.
 
Theus said "there's no doubt we've got to get somebody in here."

I think that's rather direct. Relying on PG by committee for a few months is not going to cut it according to coach.

I hope that he gets over the initial panic and thinks that through a little.

We had a couple of years to prevent this situation, but we didn't do it. Now it's too late. There is nobody we can get for minimum who will help the team's future. He may as well announce that the Kings preseason will last until March this year.
 
I don't think Theus is intending on finding someone to fill Bibby's shoes. I think, rather, he's hoping that someone somewhere might be able to step in and at least help provide a little veteran leadership to the kids who hope to become point guards.

It's not about acquiring the person to help the team's future. It's about acquiring someone who can possibly help the players we already hope will be the team's future.
 
I don't think Theus is intending on finding someone to fill Bibby's shoes. I think, rather, he's hoping that someone somewhere might be able to step in and at least help provide a little veteran leadership to the kids who hope to become point guards.

It's not about acquiring the person to help the team's future. It's about acquiring someone who can possibly help the players we already hope will be the team's future.

Sure. We've got Randy Brown and Theus on the bench. All the veteran leadership you should need for the point. Trial by fire, baby! Douby and Greene. Lots of minutes for the young guys and a higher #1! Who could want more!:D

Petrie's "patience" in trading Bibby (and Artest) really bit him in the butt, didn't it?:cool: With all of Bibby's injuries, his market value must be going down.
 
50, 82, 82, 80, 55, 82, 80, 82, 82. That is Bibby's Career number of games played per season. BTW the 80 game seasons he sat out the last 2 games of both seasons in prep for the playoffs. I don't think injurys are an issue with a team inquiring about Mike. Now if it were back, foot, or knee injury's then it might be an issue. But a torn ligament in the none shooting hand is a none factor in trade value once it heals. As far as last year I chalk that up to heart, he played all 82 games despite his own numbers trying to help the team with a an injured shooting hand.
 
Theus is a coach, so almost invariably of COURSE he is going to want reinforcements. But that's the coach thinking of himself, not the franchise. You're a coach you want to have any and all pieces you can so you can win and secure your job/future. Your interests are not always the same as the franchise that employs you. Same as Muss playng the veterans deep into the season last year. The losing and youth development would do our franchise a load of good. But not Reggie. For him it messes with his W-L record and puts hiim in the position of being a scapegoat for disappointed owners or fans. So of course he wants help. I just wish I had trust left for Geoff to ignore him.
 
Too bad Sam were not bright enough or honest enough to talk about the REAL harsh realities facing this team... Loosing Bibby makes a nice hook to hang a story on but this team has MUCH deeper more serious and longer term problems, and the fact that rah rah writers keep slinging Maloof Kool-Aid and calling them news stories does not change or even hide them.

My complaints about the roster as a whole, the failure to rebuild or even acknowlage the need for it mcuh less prepare for it or hevne forbid hold management acountable for this sad state of affars makes Mikes injury aper to be... well just what it is irrelevant to the season as a whole and possibly a good thing if it acutally leads to the necesary number of losses to nap a top 3 draft pick. Hiring a replacement is just rearanging the deck chairs on the Titanic.
 
50, 82, 82, 80, 55, 82, 80, 82, 82. That is Bibby's Career number of games played per season. BTW the 80 game seasons he sat out the last 2 games of both seasons in prep for the playoffs. I don't think injurys are an issue with a team inquiring about Mike. Now if it were back, foot, or knee injury's then it might be an issue. But a torn ligament in the none shooting hand is a none factor in trade value once it heals. As far as last year I chalk that up to heart, he played all 82 games despite his own numbers trying to help the team with a an injured shooting hand.

One thing for sure, he's not going to be traded before this year's trade deadline. Is he? He's had hand injuries for the last two years. His trade value certainly isn't going up because of it. And that isn't very conducive to trading him for young talent.
 
Theus is a coach, so almost invariably of COURSE he is going to want reinforcements. But that's the coach thinking of himself, not the franchise. You're a coach you want to have any and all pieces you can so you can win and secure your job/future. Your interests are not always the same as the franchise that employs you. Same as Muss playng the veterans deep into the season last year. The losing and youth development would do our franchise a load of good. But not Reggie. For him it messes with his W-L record and puts hiim in the position of being a scapegoat for disappointed owners or fans. So of course he wants help. I just wish I had trust left for Geoff to ignore him.

I'm not so sure about the scapegoat worries. To me, it all has to do with expectations. The expectations were certainly higher with Bibby not being injured. Now the question is, what are the win-loss expectations without Bibby? 30? 25? 20? Theus has a good excuse now for not winning. That doesn't mean there won't be some lunatics out there that think they "should" still get into the playoffs, but as long as the team plays hard, that's probably all that most people expect. And maybe that's the best thing for Theus. You're right in that Theus probably isn't looking at it that way.:p

PS - Guranteed that Napear starts immediately trying to lower expectations. When you listen to him, if the Kings win 5 games this season they'll be lucky.
 
Last edited:
Theus is a coach, so almost invariably of COURSE he is going to want reinforcements. But that's the coach thinking of himself, not the franchise. You're a coach you want to have any and all pieces you can so you can win and secure your job/future. Your interests are not always the same as the franchise that employs you. Same as Muss playng the veterans deep into the season last year. The losing and youth development would do our franchise a load of good. But not Reggie. For him it messes with his W-L record and puts hiim in the position of being a scapegoat for disappointed owners or fans. So of course he wants help. I just wish I had trust left for Geoff to ignore him.

?????

You're saying the franchise wants to lose to win? I don't think so, Brick. I know YOU want the team to lose to win, but I still maintain that theory has very little going for it.

You can have youth development and still keep the team interesting enough so people attend. And I think that's exactly what HAS to happen. We're talking about a team that needs a new home, remember? If they totally suck, the people who will be needed to support the move for the new home will lose interest. And that's not theory. It's pretty much proveable.

And I don't think people are going to treat Reggie like a scapegoat. He's a breath of fresh air and I think the fans and the Maloofs already respect his attitude, his dedication, etc.
 
losing to win is certainly a theory espoused by many here. Nothing wrong with that, except that is just isn't my style. I want the best players on the court, for much of the time, and I want the young guys to get some minutes.

For the big picture, I want an exciting and competitive team that will keep butts in the seats at ARCO. While I want to win every game, I won't fall apart, as a fan, if we lose a bunch of games.
 
I think "espoused by many" is an exaggeration, 6th. In fact, I don't recall anywhere but here where it's even been semi-seriously discussed. But whatever...

My main objection is when people assume facts not in evidence, such as the belief that the team owners and fans are going to hold Reggie somehow responsible for this ... and that Reggie is wrong for wanting something to work with as a coach.
 
losing to win is certainly a theory espoused by many here. Nothing wrong with that, except that is just isn't my style. I want the best players on the court, for much of the time, and I want the young guys to get some minutes.
The problem, as I see it, is not that the coach wants, or should want, the best players to be on the court, it's that the wrong players are our "best players."

I want a wholesale rebuild from the ground up; I want a core of players, all under twenty-five, to learn to play together, and establish the sort of unity and esprit-de-corps that we've seen on championship-caliber teams like San Antonio and Detroit. I'd like to see Petrie put together a team the way that Paxson did in Chicago, get rid of all the vets practically overnight (the only players in the top 10 of Chicago's rotation above the age of twenty-five in 2004-05 were Antonio Davis and Othella Harrington), establish a core of young players, and let them develop as a unit... Sprinkle in some veterans when you think the kids are ready, but don't stymie their development by making them play behind some old-timers.

In one season/off-season, Paxson cut bait on six crusty old vets (Pippen, Rose, Gill, Blount, Williams, Marshall) and two malcontents (Crawford, Robinson), leaving an core of Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Nocioni, Chandler and Curry to build around. I would be ecstatic if Petrie would clean house like that. I want to see everybody above the age of twenty-five off the team next year, with the possible exception of Salmons.
 
The problem, as I see it, is not that the coach wants, or should want, the best players to be on the court, it's that the wrong players are our "best players."

I want a wholesale rebuild from the ground up; I want a core of players, all under twenty-five, to learn to play together, and establish the sort of unity and esprit-de-corps that we've seen on championship-caliber teams like San Antonio and Detroit. I'd like to see Petrie put together a team the way that Paxson did in Chicago, get rid of all the vets practically overnight (the only players in the top 10 of Chicago's rotation above the age of twenty-five in 2004-05 were Antonio Davis and Othella Harrington), establish a core of young players, and let them develop as a unit... Sprinkle in some veterans when you think the kids are ready, but don't stymie their development by making them play behind some old-timers.

In one season/off-season, Paxson cut bait on six crusty old vets (Pippen, Rose, Gill, Blount, Williams, Marshall) and two malcontents (Crawford, Robinson), leaving an core of Hinrich, Deng, Gordon, Nocioni, Chandler and Curry to build around. I would be ecstatic if Petrie would clean house like that. I want to see everybody above the age of twenty-five off the team next year, with the possible exception of Salmons.

Sounds like a plan, and a good one may I add :)
 
Sure. We've got Randy Brown and Theus on the bench. All the veteran leadership you should need for the point. Trial by fire, baby! Douby and Greene. Lots of minutes for the young guys and a higher #1! Who could want more!:D

Petrie's "patience" in trading Bibby (and Artest) really bit him in the butt, didn't it?:cool: With all of Bibby's injuries, his market value must be going down.




The Same thing i was thinking Higher Pick btw Bibby is my fav Player But the Kings is my fav team and him and Artest out for 7 Games Long term this could be a blessing in disguise
 
?????

You're saying the franchise wants to lose to win? I don't think so, Brick. I know YOU want the team to lose to win, but I still maintain that theory has very little going for it.

You can have youth development and still keep the team interesting enough so people attend. And I think that's exactly what HAS to happen. We're talking about a team that needs a new home, remember? If they totally suck, the people who will be needed to support the move for the new home will lose interest. And that's not theory. It's pretty much proveable.

And I don't think people are going to treat Reggie like a scapegoat. He's a breath of fresh air and I think the fans and the Maloofs already respect his attitude, his dedication, etc.

I made no particular statement about what the franchise thinks -- the franchise is run by very foolish people. I would KILL to have opponents like our supposed braintrust. You could toy with them like the witless foils they have shown themselves to be, beat them high, beat them low, while they mindlessly plodded ahead without a shred of strategy. But simply because the franchise (and many fans I might add) is too shortsighted and deluded to know what's good for itself does not mean that it is not in fact where its interests lie.

Coaches' interests are short term, because their careers and their jobs are short term. If things go badly in the short term, they may not be around to see the long term. And the losses go on their permanent record, which makes it harder for them to get another job in the furture too. Their interest in the short term is perfectly reasonable for them. That does NOT mean that it is automatically the same as their employers.

The franchise's interests SHOULD be long term. A plan, a strategy. Showing more intelligence than a heliotropic plant mindlessly bending toward the light. Hence the coach's perceived interests and the franchise's SHOULD diverge here. For Reggie the next year or two could be determinative of his career as an NBA coach. For the franchise, they are just two little years in the midst of an eternal march of years, useful only as a bridge between a better yesterday and a better tommorow.

Fate has thrown down a gauntlet here and is trying to force us down a path we have been too chicken**** to take ourselves. Reggie wants to fight fate for the sake of his own job/rep/ease. Makes sense for him. Not for us. We need finally here at this juncture one, just one, part of the ruling junta to quit the cowering shell game, find some courage, square his shoulders, look fate right in the eye and march down that path with a plan and a purpose rather than be dragged down it kicking and screaming like a toddler being sent to his room.

P.S. And as an aside since I know you have this over the top protective urge for all things Reggie Theus, the inevitable losses of a planned and controlled descent should not necessarily fall on his head as a failure. And in fact the best chance that it doesn't is precisely if our front office finds some courage and admits the descent is going to happen rather than persists in believing its own ridiculous spin games. If you know its going to happen, plan for it happening, then it happening is no longer a disappointment, and no longer the coach's fault. Nate McMillan, Doc Rives, Mike Woodson -- guys coaching for teams who are realistic have survived years of losing before reaching the promised land. But if you persist in deluding yourself then the losing comes as a shock/disappointment and SOMEBODY must be to blame for things not working out the way you hoped. Geoff is magically immune to all blame. The coach is one of the next in line.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top