Attendance - further decline or improvement?

[VF21]

Bee Sports Editor Bill Bradley had a commentary in today's Bee that seemed to express the feeling that the trade of Ron Artest indicated "the Brothers Maloof and Kings basketball guru Geoff Petrie were already dumping the upcoming season."

The article goes on to say that our now-obvious "rebuilding project" will "test the patience of fans and make for a lot of empty seats."

I'm curious. I think, once again, the Bee is missing the point. While I agree that the trade pretty much shouts "REBUILD," I do not agree that it will necessarily result in a lot of empty seats. (I think we hit that dubious mark quite a while back.)

So, here's the question...

Do you think the Kings post-Artest will suffer a further decline in attendance? Or do you think the youth on the team, along with the return of Bobby Jackson AND subtraction of Ron Artest will actually bring fans back?

 

[NME]

I'm not sure exactly how the average ticket buyer thinks about it, but I would hope they would be excited by the finally-at-long-last infusion of promising young talent.

 

[Prophetess]

I'm not sure exactly how the average ticket buyer thinks about it, but I would hope they would be excited by the finally-at-long-last infusion of promising young talent.

I'm going with slight improvement. I know I personally am going to try to attend more games this year to watch the young talent develop. But I know times are still hard financially for a lot of people which is why only a slight and not a marked improvement.

 

[1kingzfan]

I think it will stay about the same.

Naturally, this topic is all about winning, so if the team gets off to a good start (which I am not counting on) or hits its stride later in the season and starts to show that it can win, putting together some streaks and beating some class opponents (again, I am not counting on it), this would result in higher attendance.

 

[One and Done]

I think we'll see slightly less people at Arco this year.

Simple fact is that most people like winning teams...and for years, that fact didn't seem to register with the Arco faithful: just look at the sellout streaks.

But like a friend of mine said, Kings fans got spoiled with the consecutive playoff appearances. Couple that with a slumping economy and ticket prices that are still too high (no matter how much "value" MS&E tries to inject), throw in a lottery-bound team, and you've got a perfect recipe for slumping attendance.

However, don't count me out...I'll be at Arco as many times as I can (afford).

 

[John Galt]

Continued decline - I expect pretty steep. I feel the Maloofs went for the throat during the team's heyday - and a few years of price freezes in the midst of a recession will not restore equilibrium. Kings tickets are priced like a first rate team in a first rate venue - and the product is neither.

 

[uolj]

I picked about the same but I wouldn't be surprised if there was a small decline or increase in attendance. It really depends on the market.

If they had started the rebuild in earnest a few years ago they might never had a dramatic drop even if the team ends up losing for a couple years.

 

[VF21]

Continued decline - I expect pretty steep. I feel the Maloofs went for the throat during the team's heyday - and a few years of price freezes in the midst of a recession will not restore equilibrium. Kings tickets are priced like a first rate team in a first rate venue - and the product is neither.

I think the issue of ticket prices, while having an impact of course, is a separate yet not-separate issue. (And yes, I know that sounds confusing.)

My opinion is that a lot of people quit going NOT because of the prices, which have remained constant for several years now, but because the quality of product on the court simply wasn't something they could justify.

While I don't see season ticket holders returning in droves this season, I think the fans WILL come back because the product promises to be much more entertaining and fun.

 

[1kingzfan]

My opinion is that a lot of people quit going NOT because of the prices, which have remained constant for several years now, but because the quality of product on the court simply wasn't something they could justify.

I think if this team merely puts a young team on the floor and gets its brains beat out in 08-09, the attendance will remain flat. However, if Coach Reggie actually lives up to his word and lets his team run more, which he did not do last season, then the up tempo play could create some excitement, regardless of W-L record, and bring in a few more fans (akin to what happened in 98-99).

 

[Bricklayer]

Couple of things:

1) the absurdly early deadline for renewing season tickets means that whatever further hit the season ticket base took this spring has already occurred. Its unlikely anythign we've done until this point this summer is going to cause those losses to flood back into the arena.

2) how much people get behind the rebuild and the excitement of playing young guys with a future for us may well depend on whether Reggie actually recognizes the need to do so. A further split between the purposes of the front office and Reggie, with the kids sneaking on court for maybe 15 min a game, is only going to frustrate and further alienate fans -- there is a chance for some rebound/new thing interest sales if the kids are getting major PT. There is no chance for interest sales to watch Brad Miller, Mikki Moore and John Salmons.

 

[VF21]

Slightly off the center, does anyone agree with Bill Bradley's apparent opinion that the departure of Ron Artest will cause a further erosion of attendance? Or am I misreading his op-ed?

 

[SacTownKid]

Couple of things:

1) the absurdley early deadline for reknewing season tickets means that whatever further hit the season ticket base took this spring has already occurred. Its unlikely anythign we've done until this point this summer is going to cause those losses to flood back into the arena.

2) how much people get behind the rebuild and the excitement of playing young guys with a future for us may well depend on whether Reggie actually recognizes the need to do so. A further split between the purposes of the front office and reggie, with the kids sneaking on couort for maybe 15 min a game, is only going to frustrate and further alienate fans -- there is a chance for some rebound/new thing interest sales if the kids are getting major PT. There is no chance for interest sales to watch Brad Miller, Mikki Moore and John Salmons.

I think Salmons may spark some interest. Fans will be interested to see if he can build off the start he had last year. As for the rest, I couldn't agree more.

I think Sacramento can get behind a young team that can do some exciting things. I couldn't truly get behind the team the last year or two because I knew it wasn't going to be around for long. It was the ultimate in short term thinking before, and now that they are thinking long term I think I can get behind it without a problem. I don't have to worry that the next jersey I buy will only be good for a season or two at best.

 

[SacTownKid]

Slightly off the center, does anyone agree with Bill Bradley's apparent opinion that the departure of Ron Artest will cause a further erosion of attendance? Or am I misreading his op-ed?

I think it will in the short run. But if this young team is promoted right, and can live up to there collective talents and abilities (oh yeah, and if that young team isn't relegated to garbage time of course!!!), that erosion will not only be halted immediately but will spark a new found interest and attendance will increase.

I think he's talking about the "rebuild" as a whole being the main cause. No more grand illusions about making a run in the playoffs. That could cause a drop, but I think the ones that are there every night would be there regardless.

 

[John Galt]

Leaving price out of it - the prospects for next season are for a more interesting experience at Arco. Better, more exciting. Artest leaving I don't think will trigger erosion in the ticket holder base or be the cause for decreased attendance. Not in the least - I liked Ron but I don't think he had magnetic star power that spurred ticket sales.

But you can't leave price out of it if you're talking about putting butts in the seats. And I think the Maloofs have priced for a contender, not a rebuilder, and now the direction is confirmed as "rebuild" you still have the price/value discrepancy to keep butts out of the seats and at home watching comcast.

 

[origkds]

Some fans can easily absorb the increases in the price of gas and other essentials while others cannot. For this reason alone, if this is anything but a down year for attendance I will be very surprised. Maybe we’ll go on a 42 game winning streak and the place will be packed!

 

[Rockmeister]

I think attendance will be the same, maybe even less. With the way the economy is, money gets tight for people. Even though tickets prices are still the same, they will get you in other ways, such as parking has increased $2. So instead of paying $10 for parking as last year, you will pay $12. I wouldn't be surprised if food prices increase too.

After being a season ticket holder for 10 years, I decided not to renew. My reason is sure its nice to see the young guys develop, however, I want to win now and get excited being in the playoffs. People say they want to see the young guys develops, however, last season attendance wasn't that great. People want to see a winning product. Period. If people wanted to see the young guys develop, we still would have had sell out games.

One of my family member is a season ticket holder, so, I joined her group, but at least I won't have to fork up to $4000 for mediocre season for the next several years or longer.

 

[VF21]

People say they want to see the young guys develops, however, last season attendance wasn't that great. People want to see a winning product. Period. If people wanted to see the young guys develop, we still would have had sell out games.

The problem is we didn't see the young guys develop last year. We saw Reggie Theus bow to the lure of winning and play the vets WAY too much. We saw Ron Artest putting himself back into games off the bench, among other things. We didn't see a commitment to the youth.

And this year we have MORE young guns.

I'll be making every attempt to see MORE games this year than last year for the simple reason I didn't want to drive two hours one way to see the Ron Artest show.

 

[Bricklayer]

After being a season ticket holder for 10 years, I decided not to renew. My reason is sure its nice to see the young guys develop, however, I want to win now and get excited being in the playoffs. People say they want to see the young guys develops, however, last season attendance wasn't that great. People want to see a winning product. Period. If people wanted to see the young guys develop, we still would have had sell out games.

Not so period.

If we had performed a correct rebuild, I would still be a ticket holder. You see, after 25 years of watching I understand the natural cycles of this league, and the rebuild with youth may very well be the single MOST exciting thing to watch outside of the true championship contention years. Wining 35 games = losers. Winning 41 games = losers. being the #8 seed = losers with a twist. But now the rebuild with youth...its exciting precisely because the future is wide open, and you can dare to dream in a way that you cannot once you know your team is topped out at 2nd tier (and are honest enough to admit it).

However they failed to rebuild, and decided jsut to suck instead. That is why everybody left. And until that is corrected that is why everybody will stay away. Take one look at Portland's sold out building to see how exciting a rebuild with youth can be when you can see the future out there. If you think they would be sold out if they had gone halfsies, and kept around a bunch of vets to make a run at that #8 you're nuts. they are dreaming of a championship, and wanting to be there to see it all get started.

 

[Rockmeister]

If we had performed a correct rebuild, I would still be a ticket holder.

What exactly is a correct rebuild? Do you think the Kings are in a "correct" rebuild this season? Even so, the attendance will be the same or even less....IMO. I really think when the Kings start winning again, then more people will attend and even start selling out again. However, again, that's MY opinion.

 

[Rockmeister]

I'll be making every attempt to see MORE games this year than last year for the simple reason I didn't want to drive two hours one way to see the Ron Artest show.

I do agree with you on this part.

 

[Telemachus]

I think most fans will be intrigued to watch this young team develop. Nothing will empty seats faster than a mediocre team made up of veteran players. It gives you no excitement about the team possibly improving. But with young players, there is always that idea in the back of your mind that they may have a breakout game (as either a team or individual).
Obviously, staying close to the playoff race will always help as well.

 

[NewMonkey]

I'm not sure exactly how the average ticket buyer thinks about it, but I would hope they would be excited by the finally-at-long-last infusion of promising young talent.

Agreed. I'm planning to go to some games this season. I didn't go to any last year.

 

[fnordius]

I find this season much more interesting than any but isolated parts of the last couple. I voted "slight increase," but think that the economy could possibly cancel that out. So could failure by the coach and FO to build on the youth movement. But let's hope that neither of those happen.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I can't attend in Portland but I plan on watching more this year assuming a commitment to youth is real. I vote slight improvement because I think once the initial disappointment wears off people will rally behind their team. Especially if any of the kids looks like a star in the making.

 

[tradepeja]

Not so period.

If we had performed a correct rebuild, I would still be a ticket holder. You see, after 25 years of watching I understand the natural cycles of this league, and the rebuild with youth may very well be the single MOST exciting thing to watch outside of the true championship contention years. Wining 35 games = losers. Winning 41 games = losers. being the #8 seed = losers with a twist. But now the rebuild with youth...its exciting precisely because the future is wide open, and you can dare to dream in a way that you cannot once you know your team is topped out at 2nd tier (and are honest enough to admit it).

However they failed to rebuild, and decided jsut to suck instead. That is why everybody left. And until that is corrected that is why everybody will stay away. Take one look at Portland's sold out building to see how exciting a rebuild with youth can be when you can see the future out there. If you think they would be sold out if they had gone halfsies, and kept around a bunch of vets to make a run at that #8 you're nuts. they are dreaming of a championship, and wanting to be there to see it all get started.

The problem with what you just said is that most fans aren't as experienced ans well-versed as a serious fan, let alone a serious fan of 25 years.

Sucking with young people vs. sucking with old people doesn't look much different to the most casual of fan. Which, like it or not, is the majority of fans.

Also, prices are not a non-issue or an issue but a non-issue. When you boil it down they are the entire issue. If tickets to Arco cost $2, you wouldn't be able to fit through the door. If they lower ticket prices, barring failure on the court of epic proportions, attendance will go up. Its just simple economics.

 

[JerN820]

I think the issue of ticket prices, while having an impact of course, is a separate yet not-separate issue. (And yes, I know that sounds confusing.)

My opinion is that a lot of people quit going NOT because of the prices, which have remained constant for several years now, but because the quality of product on the court simply wasn't something they could justify.

While I don't see season ticket holders returning in droves this season, I think the fans WILL come back because the product promises to be much more entertaining and fun.

I am not sure how it will be in the beginning (probably a decline if I had to guess), but a lot will depends on how this team plays. And like you said, the product promises to be entertaining and fun. So even if we arent winning alot, as long as they show improvement and play in exciting games, I can see the attendance going up throughout the season.

 

[Kingster]

Ordinarily I'd say attendance would improve because I think this team is going to be a kick to watch. But this economy sucks, so I think it will be about the same.

 

[VF21]

If they lower ticket prices, barring failure on the court of epic proportions, attendance will go up. Its just simple economics.

It might be simple economics but you're forgetting a key part of the equation. Does the word "expenditures" ring a bell?

I cannot think of a scenario under which the Kings would lower ticket prices this season. As has been pointed out already, the season tickets have already been ordered and paid for. They aren't going to refund money.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I cannot think of a scenario under which the Kings would lower ticket prices this season. As has been pointed out already, the season tickets have already been ordered and paid for. They aren't going to refund money.

Of course not, but when games aren't selling out they'll resort to gimmicks like ticket bundling to effectively reduce the cost without lowering the face value. At least that's what they did in Portland the first year or two I was here.

 

[Circa_1985_Fan]

Bee Sports Editor Bill Bradley had a commentary in today's Bee that seemed to express the feeling that the trade of Ron Artest indicated "the Brothers Maloof and Kings basketball guru Geoff Petrie were already dumping the upcoming season."

The article goes on to say that our now-obvious "rebuilding project" will "test the patience of fans and make for a lot of empty seats."

I'm curious. I think, once again, the Bee is missing the point. While I agree that the trade pretty much shouts "REBUILD," I do not agree that it will necessarily result in a lot of empty seats. (I think we hit that dubious mark quite a while back.)

So, here's the question...

Do you think the Kings post-Artest will suffer a further decline in attendance? Or do you think the youth on the team, along with the return of Bobby Jackson AND subtraction of Ron Artest will actually bring fans back?

I dont think the addition of Bobby and the subtraction of Ron will really mean much attendance-wise...I think winning will, though...which NONE of us know how we'll fare this year..if we add say...5 more wins to our record like we did last year, then I think we'll see SLIGHT improvement...I dont think we'll see any sellouts except for against the Lakers or Celtics...MAYBE opening night. I think with consistant positive effort on a nightly basis we'll see attendance around 14,000-15,000 a game.