Athletic Article On the Kings Today

#31
There's a lot to digest here. I feel like I just read a second article on The Athletic.

For Buddy, from about early December, to when he was moved to a bench role in late January, he wasn't just bad, he was atrocious. I don't think there is another way to look at it. He was shooting near, or under, 40% every game. He wasn't hitting threes. He was committing low IQ turnover, after low IQ turnover while at the same time trying more and more to take on lead guard duties for some reason. I don't know what caused this string of poor play, but what I do know is that the Kings gave him every opportunity to play his way out of it. He was given over a months worth of games to make the necessary improvements, but never did. His move to the bench was very justified by the team. If he sees it as a slight in anyway than that's very unfortunate. The team has catered to Hield as much as any team has ever catered to a player.

Grant Napear is no different than any other mouthpiece that other teams employ. If you play in Sacramento and are playing well, Grant will prop you up beyond what you deserve. If you play in Sacramento and aren't playing well, he'll say you need to be taken out or adjustments need to be made. If you aren't in Sacramento anymore, he'll be indifferent. If you aren't in Sacramento anymore and left the team on poor terms he'll go out of his way to explain why the team is better off. So many other teams commentators do this too. Celtics, Jazz (Harpring mostly), Blazers, Spurs (Elliott), Bulls, Clippers just to name a few. Even if we replaced him I'm sure Vivek would just hire another mouthpiece.

Like the Napear situation, the finger pointing isn't unique to the Kings either, neither is the complaining. The 76ers are in the news right now for booing freaking Joel Embiid. The Lakers, winners of 16 championships, organized protests at Staples Center to complain about the state of the team. The Celtics boo their team at least 10 times a year. There must've been two or three articles last year about Wolves fans booing. Discontent with your team is common, especially when you aren't winning up to expectations and playing with poor effort. Most teams only experience these things a couple of times in a decade. The Kings have experienced it for 14 seasons in a row. We've earned the right to voice our displeasure. That doesn't mean we've abandoned the team. We all want the players to succeed and we want them to succeed here. We want our ownership to do well and for Vlade to redeem himself. But if there is no incremental improvements it's hard to stay positive because the last thing we want is for 14 seasons to turn into 15, and then 16, then 17, and so on.
We just invested $94 million dollars in Buddy Hield and he's now the fastest player to make 800 3-pointers in history and he's done it with a 41% career three point percentage. Those are huge reasons why we should continue developing his talent. He's an important part of our team. While he was slumping I was reading posts here about how we need to trade him right away for anything we can get. Huh? A guy is bad for a month and we're going to throw out the previous 3 years because he's ruining our playoff chances? That's the kind of short-term reactionary thinking which has gotten us into this situation. I don't know what's happening in the locker room day to day, but I feel like Buddy has earned enough good will that we shouldn't start searching around for an exit at the first sign of trouble. Sticking him on the bench to "teach him a lesson" or whatever it was felt like an overreaction to me. This is why fans putting pressure on the team to make moves is problematic. Fans by and large want to see immediate results. Those immediate results are pointless though if they don't lead to sustained success.

I get that other teams have homer announcers too, that's not really what bothers me. There's a combination of factors at work here. Some of the cities you mentioned are large media markets with 3 or 4 teams. San Antonio and Utah have stable front offices which consistently put together teams who exceed expectations and are probably worthy of praise. What's different about our situation is that there's an elevated level of interest having just the one team and there's a relatively empty media landscape. The Kings PR department has a lot of opportunity to influence the narrative in local media and at the national level coverage is almost non-existent so there's not a lot of push back anywhere. While I'm okay with Vlade or anyone else making mistakes, at some point they have to learn from them and stop making them. Making mistakes is actually one of the primary ways any of us learns what not to do. The reaction to the mistakes has to be appropriate though. Firing everybody and starting over could lead to improvements but not if we repeat the same mistakes under a new coach or GM. Trying to erase those mistakes from the narrative is not something you do if you're aware of them and learning from them, though.

I don't hold Vivek and co. accountable for anything the Maloofs did but they also should learn from those mistakes too. I agree that big changes need to happen but this attitude of "we've earned the right to voice our displeasure" doesn't sit right with me either. You could potentially break that 14 or 15 years up to where different parties are responsible for different chunks of it. Plus, Celtics, and Sixers fans have years of NBA history to point to and markets which will always attract players. We can't really operate the same way those teams do. The one thing we had going for us is that players like playing in front of Sacramento fans. If we take that part away too, it makes it even harder to sell future players on Sacramento as a place to build your career. Maybe it's not our fault that our situation is different and ownership has failed to deliver a winning team but we can only control our part in it. I'm just asking if it's possible to put those last 14 years behind us and appreciate this team we have now. When Buddy has a bad game or Bagley misses a defensive switch or Barnes gives us 20 empty minutes, don't pull 14 years of frustration into it and make those problems bigger than they are. And if it is possible for us to exhibit that level of patience, then maybe it's possible for the front office to do the same. Maybe don't blast professional journeymen like DeWayne Dedmon and George Hill for failing to transform our culture into a winning one overnight and then chase them out of town. Don't draft players, throw them to the wolves, and then cut them loose and blame them for not working hard enough. We've allowed a culture to develop here which is toxic and that has to change first for any other changes to be successful.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#33
The billboard is a dumb idea. It is by a vocal minority (I'll say a handful) of those who post comments and their billboard is calling for Vivek to step down and to fire Vlade too.

Their billboard idea won't move the needle. It is just a waste of time, energy and money. No one with any kind of influence is supporting the idea which is why they're no where near what they need for donations but maybe they could pay for one day's worth.

Last month I sat near Vivek during a game and he showed how upset he was after a loss.

Yes, the Kings suck despite the injuries. I would imagine if things continue to go down the toilet then I would expect changes to be made a year from now.
Wow. Good to see your name...and your take. :)
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#35
Listening to the pre-game with Kayte, she didn't come right out and say the rumors about Buddy are crap but she did say she hasn't seen any evidence of him being unhappy about his current role. His game should be what the media is talking about - not unsubstantiated rumors, regardless of who's spreading them.
 
#37
In a vacuum, I agree. But have you read it?

"Sources say Ranadive has shared his frustration with both front office and coaching decisions in a variety of unfiltered ways, including private conversations with business associates and in text messages during a season-long group chat with Divac, coach Luke Walton, assistant general manager Peja Stojakovic and Chief Operating Officer Matina Kolokotronis. The complaints, sources say, have been focused on the team’s underachievement and the part they all played in it."

Have a meeting, air your grievances, set out KPI's/points for improvement and set a dates for follow-up meeting to review progress.
Season-long group chats? How does that not sound like meddling?
IMHO meddling is telling Vlade who to draft, who to sign. Keeping him in check during the season via group text is ok with me. I think Vlade's days are over, the Bagley/Doncic deal will do him in. Rather right or wrong, I honestly was for drafting Bagley over Doncic, but I don't get paid big bucks to make that decision. Vlade made the decision he thought was best and it was the wrong one, that is sports business, so now he failed and will get fired. I just hope it doesn't set us back for years
 
#38
Kings need to fire Vlade. I kept saying this during the 2018 draft.. FOX DID NOT SHOW US ANYTHING TO WARRANT BUILDING AROUND! Fast forward almost 2 years later, and I know every single person here bias aside, would trade our entire roster for Doncic if given the chance.

Vlade is a pathetic GM. Not drafting Doncic has set this franchise back another 5-10 years. He's a once in a generation player that we passed on. He's extremely incompetent.
 

VF21

#KingsFansForever
Staff member
#39
funny that this comes out right after grant talked to sam amick, telling him how great he thinks the athletic is.

In the short time the athletic has been in existence they have had a great reputation. Take into consideration buddy's big mouth, i believe the athletic.
I have to agree. I even ponied up for a year's subscription - something I swore early on I would not do

Having said that, I really want to give Buddy the benefit of the doubt and seriously hope he's not still sniveling to the media. But, again, all things considered, you could be right - and I say that with a lot of reluctance.
 

SLAB

Hall of Famer
#41
IMHO meddling is telling Vlade who to draft, who to sign. Keeping him in check during the season via group text is ok with me. I think Vlade's days are over, the Bagley/Doncic deal will do him in. Rather right or wrong, I honestly was for drafting Bagley over Doncic, but I don't get paid big bucks to make that decision. Vlade made the decision he thought was best and it was the wrong one, that is sports business, so now he failed and will get fired. I just hope it doesn't set us back for years
It’s already set them back years. It’s set them back infinitely. It’s a wound that will not be healed for a very very long time.
 
#42
Watching Vivek try to manage this team is inspiring. The Kings have been an erratic dumpster fire since he bought the team, and Vivek thinks it’s a great idea to leak to the media how he thinks it’s all 1st year head coach Luke Walton’s fault and that he’s giving Luke pointers via group text? Vivek is a smart guy, but an inept leader. It seems he effectively moved Basketball Ops under the COO—not sure what the org chart says, but its clear Vlade is expected to report to the COO, who is effectively the only direct report to Vivek. That is not wise. That is how you end up with the transparency problems we have, irrespective of the personalities that occupy those positions.

I hope Silver steps in and brokers a sale. We have been extremely loyal supporters of the NBA, and do not deserve the double whammy of the Maloof and Vivek eras.
 
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#43
We just invested $94 million dollars in Buddy Hield and he's now the fastest player to make 800 3-pointers in history and he's done it with a 41% career three point percentage. Those are huge reasons why we should continue developing his talent.
he's 27 years old in his prime and your talking about developing him. This is the problem with Buddy. There is no long term he needs to be better now with every else but shooting.
 
#44
he's 27 years old in his prime and your talking about developing him. This is the problem with Buddy. There is no long term he needs to be better now with every else but shooting.
I said continue developing him. Anybody can work on their skill level and understanding of their role within the offense. This is also his first year under this coach and Luke Walton is asking him to do things that his previous coaches have not so yes, I expect there to be an adjustment period. On this team right now, who even has the capability of taking over a game and carrying the team? It's Fox and Buddy. Neither one does it has much as we like but they have shown that they can do it. I don't see a lot else going for us at the moment. We can build on those flashes and try to get them to show up more consistently.
 

Capt. Factorial

This Is Why We Can't Have Nice Things
Staff member
#45
I said continue developing him. Anybody can work on their skill level and understanding of their role within the offense. This is also his first year under this coach and Luke Walton is asking him to do things that his previous coaches have not so yes, I expect there to be an adjustment period. On this team right now, who even has the capability of taking over a game and carrying the team? It's Fox and Buddy. Neither one does it has much as we like but they have shown that they can do it. I don't see a lot else going for us at the moment. We can build on those flashes and try to get them to show up more consistently.
Yes, for one thing, Buddy has already notched 15 games with 5+ assists this year. He had only 18 total in his first three seasons. He's definitely making progress being a facilitator, and I'd certainly say it's still under development.
 
#46
Wow. Good to see your name...and your take. :)
It's been a while. I tend to stay away from social media for the most part.

Someone shared with me the billboard idea and I began to ask friends about their opinions.

Everyone has told me the same that I felt. It's just a dumb idea that will not achieve their goal and make the fan base look entitled.

As if Vivek will take the billboard message to heart and step down because of a handful of fans.

Couldn't they think of a better slogan? Something creative? Original?

But hey more power to them and whatever makes them feel better but they're still not making a difference.
 
#47
I forgot to add this about the folks either behind or supporting the billboard idea.

They recently tweeted "...It seems Holmes' injury was known before, but disclosed only after the season ticket renewal date. That feels very wrong."

Really?

Really?

I just can't take them seriously.
 
#48
I am also frustrated with how poorly the team has been, injuries or not, but I just feel the billboard idea is dumb and pointless.

The billboard just makes the fan base look entitled and as I said won't move the needle at all.

There are much better ways to get the point across but it will take a lot more than a billboard supported by only a very tiny percentage of the fan base.
Hey Mike, long time no see! I met ya back during the Summer of 2018 during a viewing party. I typically agree with ya on a lot of things and really appreciate all you and the other folks did during the grassroots campaign. So please don’t take this personally or negatively.

But I disagree with you on two points here.

One, fans should be able to voice themselves however they see fit, so long as it’s not over the top disrespectful (such as mocking or booing an injured player). In this case, it’s been 14 years of futility with 7 under the current ownership and 4.5 under Vlade and staff.

Anybody that doesn’t buy into the billboard idea doesn’t have to contribute toward it (I won’t be contributing) But I don’t see a problem with those that do. While you’re right that it likely won’t move the needle or accomplish anything — just like offering to mow Chris Webber’s lawn ;) — it’s a form of expression. And a very public one at that. That will draw attention from the media, which I believe is more of the point.

Secondly, I really disagree with the notion that it makes the fan base appear ‘entitled’. How exactly? Again, this team has been bad for 14+ years now. I don’t have to tell you how much fans have had to endure over that time. And it’s showing no signs of ending any time soon. In fact, signs are pointing toward it going on for another 14 years.

Fans are just finally at the point where they are so tired of it that they are grasping at straws to help enact change. That’s not entitlement. It’s passion. And smart.

If Warriors fans were doing something like this during the one down season they’re experiencing, that would be entitlement. But in no way does this fan base and what we’ve continued to endure qualify for that title.

Just my .02.
 
#49
The first time was to build around Cousins and that did not work.

Trading Cousins was ripping off the band-aid for a full rebuild and up until last season things were starting to look good except for the tailspin toward the end of the season.

Injuries this season, especially to Fox, has hurt this team and some pieces simply did not fit which was why they were traded.

This coming off season Vlade and company must get it right with the players being mostly healthy.

Otherwise I could see some major changes made a year from now.
Yeah ... players missing a combined 108 games is a big deal. Valid points have been made, but people acting as if that isn’t maybe the biggest contributing factor in this mess, are fooling themselves.

Pretty hard to stay motivated after losses pile up and you see the playoff window closed
 
#50
Regarding the Athletic article, I wasn’t able to read anything beyond the first couple paragraphs since it’s behind a paywall.

However, I did read this portion and felt compelled to comment about it.

Vlade Divac has grown tired of hearing about Dallas Mavericks star Luka Doncic. He has grown tired of hearing about how his team’s choice to pass on him in the 2018 draft and select Marvin Bagley III instead has led to the kind of fan displeasure that makes his job as Kings general manager uncomfortable at times.
First, we fans are tired of it too. Because we’re gonna have to live with hearing about it for the next 15+ years, and beyond, judging by how #77 is performing already. We’re discovering how Blazers fans felt for decades after their team bypassed Michael Jordan for Sam Bowie. Clearly, #77 is no Jordan. But he’s quickly becoming a transcendent player.

Secondly, if Vlade is tired of hearing about it, it’s all on him for making the choice he made and going against conventional wisdom. Scrutiny and second guessing from fans comes along with the job. I have no sympathy for him in that regard.

And if he had a better track record of decision making during his 4.5 years on the job, fans might have a lot more forgiveness. But with all the failed draft picks, free agent moves, trades, and pledge to step down if the team wasn’t better in 2 years — he put himself in this situation. The 2018 draft was clearly the most important in the franchises recent history. And he blew it. Doing it his way.

Again, if he‘s tired of hearing about it, too freaking bad. If he had made the obvious decision, there would have been a much different result. It’s nobody’s fault but his own.
 
#51
The first time was to build around Cousins and that did not work.

Trading Cousins was ripping off the band-aid for a full rebuild and up until last season things were starting to look good except for the tailspin toward the end of the season.

Injuries this season, especially to Fox, has hurt this team and some pieces simply did not fit which was why they were traded.

This coming off season Vlade and company must get it right with the players being mostly healthy.

Otherwise I could see some major changes made a year from now.
I agree 100% about the billboard. On the 'other' board I noticed a poster got lambasted by the mob for saying he didn't think the billboard was a good idea.

As far as the injuries go, I 100% disagree. Kings played .500 ball with CoJo starting. Much worse with Fox starting. Bagley is one of the worst players in the league so they're actually better with him being out. Holmes being out has been a hit to the team but not enough to move the needle enough to say "one more year".

Injuries aren't the problem here, it's talent. They simply don't have enough of it. They are literally a Luka Doncic away from being good. That ship has sailed and the only way out at this point is to rebuild again. All the work he's done from the moment he got the GM spot came to a head when he lucked out and got that #2 pick and he completely squandered it. It's over at this point. The current situation they're in is just a waste of time from this point forward unless something miraculous happens and they land a top tier talent without having to give up the farm. Other than that there's realistically no way out of this mess.

This is the most obvious time for Vivek to meddle. The people in place don't have the chops to be successful in their positions. Walton, Vlade, everyone. Vivek doesn't have the chops either but there's nothing we can do about that so we just have to hope he gets lucky and hires people that do.
 
#52
Yeah ... players missing a combined 108 games is a big deal. Valid points have been made, but people acting as if that isn’t maybe the biggest contributing factor in this mess, are fooling themselves.
But part of the equation is that other orgs seem to be able to draft or acquire players that didn‘t have nor develop injury histories. Part of that is good fortune, of course, but some of it isn’t.

This franchise has a poor history of injuries to key players. But seemingly more so with this current regime. That can’t be overlooked.
 
#53
Hey Mike, long time no see! I met ya back during the Summer of 2018 during a viewing party. I typically agree with ya on a lot of things and really appreciate all you and the other folks did during the grassroots campaign. So please don’t take this personally or negatively.

But I disagree with you on two points here.

One, fans should be able to voice themselves however they see fit, so long as it’s not over the top disrespectful (such as mocking or booing an injured player). In this case, it’s been 14 years of futility with 7 under the current ownership and 4.5 under Vlade and staff.

Anybody that doesn’t buy into the billboard idea doesn’t have to contribute toward it (I won’t be contributing) But I don’t see a problem with those that do. While you’re right that it likely won’t move the needle or accomplish anything — just like offering to mow Chris Webber’s lawn ;) — it’s a form of expression. And a very public one at that. That will draw attention from the media, which I believe is more of the point.

Secondly, I really disagree with the notion that it makes the fan base appear ‘entitled’. How exactly? Again, this team has been bad for 14+ years now. I don’t have to tell you how much fans have had to endure over that time. And it’s showing no signs of ending any time soon. In fact, signs are pointing toward it going on for another 14 years.

Fans are just finally at the point where they are so tired of it that they are grasping at straws to help enact change. That’s not entitlement. It’s passion. And smart.

If Warriors fans were doing something like this during the one down season they’re experiencing, that would be entitlement. But in no way does this fan base and what we’ve continued to endure qualify for that title.

Just my .02.
Ah yes the viewing party. I remember that.

I have no problem with your opinion and from others and if we agree or agree to disagree.

It is good and healthy to have a respectful dialogue.

As I said earlier if it makes them feel any better then more power to them.

I remember a time when the Kings were beyond terrible (down 40-4 at the Lakers and all four points were from the free throw line) and yet we never saw anything like this idea. Social media has definitely changed the game with respect to how fans can be heard.

The entitlement thing steams from the whole "we saved the team so let's roll out another here we idea."

I know I was not the only one who felt that way or at least interpreted it that way because those words were never used.

Hopefully my opinion made more sense now.
 
#54
Yeah ... players missing a combined 108 games is a big deal. Valid points have been made, but people acting as if that isn’t maybe the biggest contributing factor in this mess, are fooling themselves.

Pretty hard to stay motivated after losses pile up and you see the playoff window closed
I can't speak for a professional athlete but as a sports fan it is very frustrating.

I am still a season ticket member despite what is going on and in fact will be flying to Los Angeles for my annual trip to watch the Kings at Clippers.

I may not always agree with what the team does or how it plays but they will always be my favorite NBA team.
 
#55
Regarding the Athletic article, I wasn’t able to read anything beyond the first couple paragraphs since it’s behind a paywall.

However, I did read this portion and felt compelled to comment about it.



First, we fans are tired of it too. Because we’re gonna have to live with hearing about it for the next 15+ years, and beyond, judging by how #77 is performing already. We’re discovering how Blazers fans felt for decades after their team bypassed Michael Jordan for Sam Bowie. Clearly, #77 is no Jordan. But he’s quickly becoming a transcendent player.

Secondly, if Vlade is tired of hearing about it, it’s all on him for making the choice he made and going against conventional wisdom. Scrutiny and second guessing from fans comes along with the job. I have no sympathy for him in that regard.

And if he had a better track record of decision making during his 4.5 years on the job, fans might have a lot more forgiveness. But with all the failed draft picks, free agent moves, trades, and pledge to step down if the team wasn’t better in 2 years — he put himself in this situation. The 2018 draft was clearly the most important in the franchises recent history. And he blew it. Doing it his way.

Again, if he‘s tired of hearing about it, too freaking bad. If he had made the obvious decision, there would have been a much different result. It’s nobody’s fault but his own.
The team was in a better position two years after the Cousins trade and that led to his extension with the team.

I am a firm believer in drafting the best player available and not the best fit. I don't work for the Kings so what do I know? :)
 
#56
Lots going on here. Agree that this is NOT meddling. Vivek needs to overhaul both the front office and coaching staff if he feels this way. Buddy Hield needs to embrace his role when it leads to team success. Bagley and Luka will always be linked and this will be a stain on our team forever. UNLESS Bagley does something to mitigate the stain somewhat with improved play. Bagley should never be faulted for being drafted by the Kings. I feel bad that he is bc that's not his fault. Even when the team shows modest improvement they get blasted with these articles. It seems like wild fluctuations in play are not acceptable to both fans and people within the organization. If if were my team I would not be happy with whoever leaked this.
The team needs to decide about the coaching staff and front office, future of players etc. I would look at the following:
GM: Keep or replace Vlade, if you keep him you are banking on the fact that last season is more of reality than this season is. The core is the same. If you are ownership which version of this team is the actual team. If you replace him then who do you hire? Hinkie? Someone like Troy Weaver?
Coach: Is this team worse off bc we have Walton and not Joeger? Joeger isnt coming back so if you. Believe it is Walton, then you need to find someone with potential to become the next Malone or Joeger. These coaches are out there, see Taylor Jenkins in Memphis. I'm not sure Luke Walton is a head coach, or that players respond to him as the article points out that Buddy never went after Joeger even though he was criticized. I personally think coaching IS a factor no matter what you believe the answer is to the GM question. If I am Vivek I'm hiring Becky Hammon because she learned from Pop and it would also be good for the image of the team to hire the first female coach in NBA history.
Aside from GM/Coach: Vivek and whoever the GM coach are need to decide if last years pace is the teams identity or this years. If they can run that breakneck pace all season long then do it because its proven to work better than this year. If not pick a system and follow it.
Core of the team: Who are the core players? Fox, Holmes, Bagley? Is Hield salvageable. Is Bogi worth his pay day if we rebuild? Giles?
Draft: keep the pick, trade the pick, acquire more assets by trading players and then taking salary dumps with draft picks?
FA: our own and who is out there. This crop is weak so what's the plan?

If it were my team, I would do the following:
1) Fire Vlade. Love him as a person but hes had a chance. Hire Sam Hinkie and let him acquire assets.
2) My core is Fox, Holmes, Giles if I can keep him, Keeping Buddy and Bogi, Bazemore and Bjelica (all are assets if not useful as players)
3) Keeping Bagley but if some team offered multiple firsts or if I could get Embiid with him in a package I'm trading him. Otherwise I think player development vs selling low wins out
4) Draft, Avidja if possible. I see him growing and while hes not Doncic, he has potential to make others better and he could be a similar type of player, maybe not hall of Famer but all star. If not I trade our picks for multiple firsts in deeper drafts 21 or 22 where later picks may be more valuable than our lottery pick this year. You never know sometimes teams like some player a lot like when Ainge offered 4 first to charlotte to draft winslow in front of miami but got turned down
5) Barnes is a nice player but I'm trying to break his contract into smaller moveable pieces if possible. Parker could stay and help a bit or sign a stop gap option
6) Acquire future firsts and seconds to take on players who are moved for space. Of course we need to clear space first but if we go in that direction other players would be traded for assets like Buddy Bogi etc
7) Walton is out and I'm hiring Becky Hammon. As an alternative, I remember when Rick Adelman left and he said someone needs to give Elston Turner a chance. If he would come back I would consider him too. Hes never had a chance and I think Rick Adelman knows a good coach when he sees one. Also worked under Joeger. I'm also hiring an experienced assistant coach with head coaching experience. We talked to Jeff Hornacek before and he seems like a possibility or someone else with that type of profile.
8) I'm not messing around with injuries either so Pete Youngman is coming back too.
9) If Matina really meddles as much as what is implied shes out too. She doesn't need to have a say so.

That's my first draft of a plan but that's where I would start.
 
#57
I agree 100% about the billboard. On the 'other' board I noticed a poster got lambasted by the mob for saying he didn't think the billboard was a good idea.

As far as the injuries go, I 100% disagree. Kings played .500 ball with CoJo starting. Much worse with Fox starting. Bagley is one of the worst players in the league so they're actually better with him being out. Holmes being out has been a hit to the team but not enough to move the needle enough to say "one more year".

Injuries aren't the problem here, it's talent. They simply don't have enough of it. They are literally a Luka Doncic away from being good. That ship has sailed and the only way out at this point is to rebuild again. All the work he's done from the moment he got the GM spot came to a head when he lucked out and got that #2 pick and he completely squandered it. It's over at this point. The current situation they're in is just a waste of time from this point forward unless something miraculous happens and they land a top tier talent without having to give up the farm. Other than that there's realistically no way out of this mess.

This is the most obvious time for Vivek to meddle. The people in place don't have the chops to be successful in their positions. Walton, Vlade, everyone. Vivek doesn't have the chops either but there's nothing we can do about that so we just have to hope he gets lucky and hires people that do.
It's an echo chamber over there and definitely a mob mentality.

Actually I did agree with you that it's not just the injuries but the talent too as I said some pieces simply did not fit which was why they were traded.

But I would rather have Fox on my team rather than CoJo. If I had to pick one anyway but that's just me. :)
 
#59
This fan base is reacting like the Kings were gunning for Top 1 in the West. The Kings were an optimistic option for 7th or 8th playoff spot. For most teams projected like that, it means every key player needs to be on 80% around every game.

The fun part is that the Kings projected starter PF and C never played out as expected. Bagley was injured frequently and Dedmon come out differently. Add Fox missing a good chunk as well, as well as Bogie's chunk of missed games, then everyone now points to freakin Buddy Hield who has been our consistent gun keeping his end of the contract for being a perimeter sniper and even Barnes who has turned himself into a mini Shawn Marion playing from SF/PF/C.

The freak'in problem of this team is not keeping the roster healthy and that's like 70% of the reason. The second part was signing players that never made their potential Ariza/Dedmon. There's no more Ariza and Dedmon on this team. Time to clean house on the conditioning crew or whoever should be keeping the magic beans that keeps injury to minimum.

There was maybe like 5 season's where the Suns were praised of regenerating injury prone careers (including Shaq). So clearly it's not just players and front office. Conditioning crew should be up and equip to keep player's injury to minimum.
Another factor to injuries is how drills and practice are being done, so that means the coaching staff.

Should there be an overhaul, maybe get a group that really manages the whole basketball operation.

What I'm saying is if Vlade goes, get rid of the coaching staff and conditioning staff as well. Getting rid of just Vlade won't have any impact.
 
#60
[QUOTE="Mike0476, post: 1505808, member: 691"But I would rather have Fox on my team rather than CoJo. If I had to pick one anyway but that's just me. :)[/QUOTE]

Absolutely ;)

By the way, thanks for all you guys did to help keep the team in Sac years ago.