At least we always have the moral high ground! (2022-2023 L2M Report Thread)

[KainLear]

My point is there are always going to be plays but I haven't seen anything where you start wondering if there is an agenda behind it all. It's really just been pretty much a non topic IMO. There were a couple of plays the Kings got away with fouls too.

While I do agree with most of what you said, the major difference for me is that I don't look at the refs (NBA) as having a secret agenda, I'm more concerned about their actual incompetence of refereeing the high-paced game with intricate switching and ball movement, and the lack of concern from the national media about it (because NBA doesn't allow anybody to speak of it). We should be investing serious time and effort in finding out the best way to have coaches' challenge without extending review time (which is strange that the on-court refs still got the final say even though we have a fully functional Replay Center in Secaucus, NJ). The lack of consistency in carry, double-dribble, out-of-bound, blocking/charging, and many other subjective rules that NBA never felt like cleaning up.

I can go on, but to put too much investment into a sport where it is an open secret that its refs enforce "Superstar calls" is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

 

[hrdboild]

So, you think three guys, who are heavily graded/critiqued after each game saw that play and made a conscious decision to no call it because they don't like the Kings/Sabonis or because they favor the Warriors?

I don't think anyone is assuming there's an agenda so much as there's just an inherent bias which strongly favors teams and players who have a history of winning and that tends to ensure that the same teams continue winning. You can hear it in the broadcasts too -- there's so much awe for the past playoff heroics of Steph, Klay, and Draymond that they get a huge amount of leeway to hook and grapple people, initiate contact and still get calls, and complain with impunity. Steph just jumped himself out of bounds with a defender in his general vicinity last night and got a foul called. Monk and Fox are driving into contact, bouncing off of people, and it's a no call.

No I don't think any one call has changed the outcome of a game in this series but the accumulation of 100 little advantages over the course of the series makes it feel like the Kings have to play perfect to win while the Warriors just have to not play awful. And it really bothers me how little accountability the refs have for missing crucial calls. The L2M reports come out and even when there are crucial game-deciding errors we hear nothing about consequences. If anyone says a bad word about the officials they're fined. The NBA league office has created a culture of denial when any casual sports fan who isn't heavily invested in one team or the other can see that the officiating in the NBA is anything but fair and impartial.

 

[mrlaze]

We really need to move on from the officiating stuff. Honestly, the series has been officiated fine. Yes, there have been missed calls just like every game in the history of basketball but it hasn't been a travesty like it was 20 years ago. If you look at the Warriors fan boards, they are all whining about it too. It's seriously just boring to blame the referees for everything, especially when there really hasn't been much to talk about in that department this series. Hell, the NBA even had the courage to suspend idiot Draymond for a game when we all expected them not to.

I'm talking about refs in general. Their over involvement in the outcome if games and unbalanced calls delute the product.

 

[Fantazija]

While I do agree with most of what you said, the major difference for me is that I don't look at the refs (NBA) as having a secret agenda, I'm more concerned about their actual incompetence of refereeing the high-paced game with intricate switching and ball movement, and the lack of concern from the national media about it (because NBA doesn't allow anybody to speak of it). We should be investing serious time and effort in finding out the best way to have coaches' challenge without extending review time (which is strange that the on-court refs still got the final say even though we have a fully functional Replay Center in Secaucus, NJ). The lack of consistency in carry, double-dribble, out-of-bound, blocking/charging, and many other subjective rules that NBA never felt like cleaning up.

I can go on, but to put too much investment into a sport where it is an open secret that its refs enforce "Superstar calls" is simply ridiculous in my opinion.

This.
My thoughts exactly

 

[New Era]

I'm talking about refs in general. Their over involvement in the outcome if games and unbalanced calls delute the product.

So what is your solution? This talk of refs has gone on since basketball was invented.

 

[PacMan]

So what is your solution? This talk of refs has gone on since basketball was invented.

Based on L2M, bad misses and the refs should get docked and if enough misses, it should dock off their salary

 

[Warhawk]

I don't think anyone is assuming there's an agenda so much as there's just an inherent bias which strongly favors teams and players who have a history of winning and that tends to ensure that the same teams continue winning. You can hear it in the broadcasts too -- there's so much awe for the past playoff heroics of Steph, Klay, and Draymond that they get a huge amount of leeway to hook and grapple people, initiate contact and still get calls, and complain with impunity. Steph just jumped himself out of bounds with a defender in his general vicinity last night and got a foul called. Monk and Fox are driving into contact, bouncing off of people, and it's a no call.

No I don't think any one call has changed the outcome of a game in this series but the accumulation of 100 little advantages over the course of the series makes it feel like the Kings have to play perfect to win while the Warriors just have to not play awful. And it really bothers me how little accountability the refs have for missing crucial calls. The L2M reports come out and even when there are crucial game-deciding errors we hear nothing about consequences. If anyone says a bad word about the officials they're fined. The NBA league office has created a culture of denial when any casual sports fan who isn't heavily invested in one team or the other can see that the officiating in the NBA is anything but fair and impartial.

Exactly this. Certain players don't get calls and certain ones seem to. It adds up. You don't think that Green's stomp and the elbow to the eye last night and the shot to the head a couple games ago, two of which no fouls were called, don't add up to Domas, one of our two all-stars? We lose possessions, we have a player getting mauled every game which makes him less effective in that game and for future games, and our players accumulate fouls (and GS free throws) that add up to impact the game. I don't think it is intentional (as in the refs want one team to win). But that doesn't mean it isn't happening and adversely impacts one team. If the L2M reports for the year don't tell you that something is wrong (as a start), nothing will.

So what is your solution? This talk of refs has gone on since basketball was invented.

Solution? Hard to say, but possibly some options:

• More transparency on refs and the calls they get right and wrong.
• Stats on which refs call certain players or teams adversely and, when warranted, not allowing them to ref those teams any more.
• Ref punishment and fines, if necessary, made public just like for players.
• More ref training.
• Not letting players get away with stuff (like Green) "because it is the playoffs". Be fair and even-handed with calls.
• Allow coaches more challenges (especially when they get theirs right - should be unlimited if they do) and having an automatic review of all calls/non-calls in a video center with full game logs and video backup after each game.
• Hammer in some freaking accountability to the refs.

 

[mrlaze]

So what is your solution? This talk of refs has gone on since basketball was invented.

I dont have one. Eveyone involved in the business seems to be fine with it. The complaining, and the ingame working of the refs, is also is detrimental to the product imo. DMC did that for me.

I feel the only option I have is watch or dont watch. Pay for cable or dont. So I dont. I go out and watch games and spend my money on food and beverages. Sure they are still buying the cable, but it is what it is.

Like I said I wish I wasn't as interested in basketball and the kings, but here I am... This morning I realized I might enjoy euro leagues more. I seem to like a lot of players who come from overseas and the style and skills they bring. So gonna look into that.

 

[Fear the Putin]

I don't think anyone is assuming there's an agenda so much as there's just an inherent bias which strongly favors teams and players who have a history of winning and that tends to ensure that the same teams continue winning. You can hear it in the broadcasts too -- there's so much awe for the past playoff heroics of Steph, Klay, and Draymond that they get a huge amount of leeway to hook and grapple people, initiate contact and still get calls, and complain with impunity. Steph just jumped himself out of bounds with a defender in his general vicinity last night and got a foul called. Monk and Fox are driving into contact, bouncing off of people, and it's a no call.

No I don't think any one call has changed the outcome of a game in this series but the accumulation of 100 little advantages over the course of the series makes it feel like the Kings have to play perfect to win while the Warriors just have to not play awful. And it really bothers me how little accountability the refs have for missing crucial calls. The L2M reports come out and even when there are crucial game-deciding errors we hear nothing about consequences. If anyone says a bad word about the officials they're fined. The NBA league office has created a culture of denial when any casual sports fan who isn't heavily invested in one team or the other can see that the officiating in the NBA is anything but fair and impartial.

And players like Draymond know that. He knows the refs will allow him to play rough because if they call all of them, he will lambast them. And then continue to get leeway from receiving T's. They're "the warriors" and hence they can't simply foul him out and/or eject him from every game.