"Art" in front of the arena?
- Thread starter Tetsujin
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macadocious
Starter
7's the key number here. Think about it. 7-Elevens. 7 dwarves. 7, man, that's the number. 7 chipmunks twirlin' on a branch, eatin' lots of sunflowers on my uncle's ranch. You know that old children's tale from the sea. It's like you're dreamin' about Gorgonzola cheese when it's clearly Brie time, baby. Step into my office.
whitechocolate
Bench
I have been lurking here for a couple of years, and I respect and appreciate many of you as posters, so pardon me if my first post comes off as combative. But I think some of you are being too quick to judge. I understand the criticism that the price seems inflated, but the price of art being tied to an artist's reputation is just the nature of the market. Though I suspect if we knew the process behind creating the piece we would be slightly humbled.
While a piece that is tied to the city's history has value, a piece that is put in simply to look good also has value. I personally think a bright color piece by Jeff Koons is a great choice, given the renderings of the new arena and its surroundings. Particularly the style of Coloring Book. I don't think the overall composition of the version shown in the original post is all that great on its own. I think this version is absolutely beautiful though:
It is also a piece that plays with light and the environment. You have to imagine it in the context of the environment it is in. For example:
I think the piece has potential that is going overlooked in this thread. Here's another photo of the version the topic is about:
Looks great.
While a piece that is tied to the city's history has value, a piece that is put in simply to look good also has value. I personally think a bright color piece by Jeff Koons is a great choice, given the renderings of the new arena and its surroundings. Particularly the style of Coloring Book. I don't think the overall composition of the version shown in the original post is all that great on its own. I think this version is absolutely beautiful though:
It is also a piece that plays with light and the environment. You have to imagine it in the context of the environment it is in. For example:
I think the piece has potential that is going overlooked in this thread. Here's another photo of the version the topic is about:
Looks great.
Padrino
All-Star
I have been lurking here for a couple of years, and I respect and appreciate many of you as posters, so pardon me if my first post comes off as combative. But I think some of you are being too quick to judge. I understand the criticism that the price seems inflated, but the price of art being tied to an artist's reputation is just the nature of the market. Though I suspect if we knew the process behind creating the piece we would be slightly humbled.
While a piece that is tied to the city's history has value, a piece that is put in simply to look good also has value. I personally think a bright color piece by Jeff Koons is a great choice, given the renderings of the new arena and its surroundings. Particularly the style of Coloring Book. I don't think the overall composition of the version shown in the original post is all that great on its own. I think this version is absolutely beautiful though:
It is also a piece that plays with light and the environment. You have to imagine it in the context of the environment it is in. For example:
I think the piece has potential that is going overlooked in this thread. Here's another photo of the version the topic is about:
Looks great.
i'm in agreement with you. i dig a lot of koons' work, particularly the ways in which he plays with light and color. he's certainly not for everybody, but perhaps that's the point; the kings may be the primary tenant of the new arena, but all of the related downtown revitalization projects are about much more than nba basketball. this is about propelling sacramento forward, and contemporary art, no matter your preference, has the potential to draw attention to its placement, to engage the senses beyond a cursory glance or a requisite photo op, to pull people further into the experience of savoring a downtown area's atmosphere...
visual art, like all art, is going to be subjective in its appeal. a jeff koons piece of any kind would be a much riskier choice than the more safe/tasteful alternatives; a "giant 6" or something along the lines of the pony express statue or a statue of a family walking to the arena or a nod to the city's railroad history may be inoffensive gestures, and they may have familiarity and nostalgic appeal going for them, but they allow little space for imagination or interpretation or the simple awe that distinct visual art can inspire. hell, critique is itself a worthy kind of engagement that distinct visual art can offer...
personally, i think sacramento can afford to be bold (and even a bit garish) in this particular instance. this city has long carried the stigma of being a stiff government town; as a result, its arts culture is nowhere near as vibrant as a comparably-sized city like portland. sacramento's identity has been one of backward-looking for so long that it has no tangible vision for what it's future might look like. maybe "Coloring Book" is not representative of that future, but featuring a koons piece will certainly draw attention to the city's capacity to engage its citizens (and its tourists) with the arts, and perhaps other esteemed artists will follow...
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Bballkingsrock
All-Star
What is it?
whitechocolate
Bench
Well said Padrino.
I have to take this comment back:
It is growing on me fast. Now I think it looks friendly. It looks like it is waving. It also kind of looks like it's in the middle of singing "Here is my handle. Here is my spout. Tip me over an pour me out."
I have to take this comment back:
It is growing on me fast. Now I think it looks friendly. It looks like it is waving. It also kind of looks like it's in the middle of singing "Here is my handle. Here is my spout. Tip me over an pour me out."
arwen undomiel
Bench
Most modern art is lost on me - I just don't seem able to appreciate it. When I think of Sac, I think of the Kings, trees, families, Aerojet and Sutter's Mill. Maybe something evocative of the Four Rivers Fountain in Rome, depicting the facets of Sacramento life?
J
jdbraver
Guest
93% of people thought the world was flat too.
macadocious
Starter
That seems like an appropriate comparison.
Not in 2015.
I have been lurking here for a couple of years, and I respect and appreciate many of you as posters, so pardon me if my first post comes off as combative. But I think some of you are being too quick to judge. I understand the criticism that the price seems inflated, but the price of art being tied to an artist's reputation is just the nature of the market. Though I suspect if we knew the process behind creating the piece we would be slightly humbled.
While a piece that is tied to the city's history has value, a piece that is put in simply to look good also has value. I personally think a bright color piece by Jeff Koons is a great choice, given the renderings of the new arena and its surroundings. Particularly the style of Coloring Book. I don't think the overall composition of the version shown in the original post is all that great on its own. I think this version is absolutely beautiful though:
It is also a piece that plays with light and the environment. You have to imagine it in the context of the environment it is in. For example:
I think the piece has potential that is going overlooked in this thread. Here's another photo of the version the topic is about:
Looks great.
I don't think the other views do anything to convince me that this is anything but some dude laughing all the way to the bank because some idiots will spend $8 million for some pastel acrylic blob and call it "art".
whitechocolate
Bench
I like it, would be proud to have it in Sacramento, and would look forward to seeing it installed. I am not an idiot.
Perhaps this video will show you that it's more than a simple pastel blob. It's definitely not acrylic:
OK, so it's a giant pastel mirror, which due to its placement in a nearly-symmetrical courtyard has reflections that appear to be see-through distortions of reality. It's a little bit neat, though it doesn't exactly fit my definition of "art". It also doesn't fit my definition of $8M. But hey, it's not my money. Let the City Council decide if they want to spend that kind of cash on a public art installation. (After the arena stuff I can only imagine the public debate on THIS one...!)
LPKingsFan
All-Star
Would the team or city be paying for it?
whitechocolate
Bench
I think we are all familiar with the ownership's opinion on overpriced contracts.
..."Neat" works for me. Looking at his other works online, Play-Doh is my favorite:
OK, acrylic-looking. I didn't know what it was made of but that is what it looked like.
You aren't the one paying for it, so the "idiot" term wasn't directed at you.
The video helps clarify what it is, the photos didn't do it "justice" - not to say I think it is right for the use intended. Still overpriced by about a factor of 20 though no matter where it is placed.
And Play-Doh? Really? This is the reason I have a hard time with "modern" art. Some guy makes a "sculpture" of what little kids make every freaking DAY and all of a sudden it is something new and awesome and art "critics" start drooling on themselves. Bah. They wouldn't know good art if it smacked them in the head.
So are you related to the artist?
Some of us like it; some of us don't. That's kind of how things go around here.
Tetsujin
The Game Thread Dude
So are you related to the artist?
Some of us like it; some of us don't. That's kind of how things go around here.
Especially with something as subjective as art. Or Demarcus Cousins. Or jersey colors.
N0tmyfault
Bench
My god, what the hell is it? Looks like someone drank food coloring dye and took a pee. But what the hell would I know? I don't even appreciate the historical and artistic significance of the Mona Lisa or other well-known pieces. I do, however, think that large reflective metal bubble in Chicago (AKA Cloud Gate or "The Bean) is an amazing piece. Perfect for selfies.
whitechocolate
Bench
For me personally, all it really comes down to is I like the way it looks. There are things we pass by every day we hardly notice that could offer interesting compositional ideas if we looked for them. If an artist looks at the toy Play-Doh and thinks its colors and the way the clay fits together creates an interesting dynamic, or thinks the subject matter is appropriate for the mood he wishes to create, why shouldn't he draw inspiration from it? I can see how enlarging something we were infatuated with as children could make them seem new to us again and evoke nostalgia and joy.
I was under the impression it would be the city's piece, but I'm not 100% sure on that.
I like the looks of the Ford Raptor truck and the new GT they have coming out. Doesn't mean that either one of them should be put on a pedestal outside our new arena, no matter the mood of nostalgia or joy they put ME in, right?
Maybe the issue is that some are more concerned about how the piece makes the "artist" feel instead of the folks using the facility?
I get that art is subjective and if someone gets off on a mound of play-doh, hey, more power to them. But this city fought long and hard to keep this team and get a new arena built. I don't think a mirror with pastel colors painted on it is necessarily the piece to put out in front as a shining example of "art" in Sacramento and entrance piece to our new arena. The location and gravitas of that position, IMHO, is above what is being proposed. And the price is just OBSCENE.
If they want to put something like this in the Crocker Art museum or something, go for it. That is where something like this belongs.
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Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Colored glass...ok, ok $5 million! That's my final offer!
I also do a killer Mondrian if anybody's interested. And I may in fact BE Jackson Pollack.
I also do a killer Mondrian if anybody's interested. And I may in fact BE Jackson Pollack.
If the Kings/Sacramento are looking for a musical act on opening night, I can do a killer performance of John Cage's "4:33" and I can probably be negotiated down to $50K.
captain bill
All-Star
I have been lurking here for a couple of years, and I respect and appreciate many of you as posters, so pardon me if my first post comes off as combative. But I think some of you are being too quick to judge. I understand the criticism that the price seems inflated, but the price of art being tied to an artist's reputation is just the nature of the market. Though I suspect if we knew the process behind creating the piece we would be slightly humbled.
While a piece that is tied to the city's history has value, a piece that is put in simply to look good also has value. I personally think a bright color piece by Jeff Koons is a great choice, given the renderings of the new arena and its surroundings. Particularly the style of Coloring Book. I don't think the overall composition of the version shown in the original post is all that great on its own. I think this version is absolutely beautiful though:
It is also a piece that plays with light and the environment. You have to imagine it in the context of the environment it is in. For example:
I think the piece has potential that is going overlooked in this thread. Here's another photo of the version the topic is about:
Looks great.
If it were described as a piece of landscape architecture, I wouldn't bat an eye at it. The light is kind of cool, and if it were just one more fixture, it's fine.
Calling it "art," charging $8mm for it, and promoting it as a centerpiece of culture and the arena is silly. I read up on Koons, and he's definitely part of the school of "society is stupid, banal art is profound," which I'm not a fan of. I read an over-long piece trying to fit it into post-modern philosophy and, as someone who has studied that in depth (including as it relates to art), I find it vapid and more or less insulting to what real art stands for.
I've spent tons of time in various museums and appreciate good art. I'd laugh at it and move on to the next piece if I saw it at a museum, too.
I'd rather see something highlighting art that reflects Sacramento and artists from the area. For a place that can lay claim to Joan Didion, Mark Twain, and John Muir, not to mention somewhere that is the birthplace of modern California, I'd rather see something more significant and meaningful.
Again, it's pretty and looks nice. Just don't roll it out as a centerpiece of the new arena.
Larry David
Starter
I like art. I'm cool with going outside the box and don't mind the rabbit.
It appears Mr. Koons is a world renowned talent. From the stories I've seen, I like some of this other stuff.
The real issue here is we are buying a crappy piece by Mr. Koons. It's not objectively a good Koons piece.
This is so Sacramento. We have a statue by Koon guys!!! Oh, cool one of the balloon dogs? No. The big Scotty dog? No. Balloon flowers? No. The broken open egg? No. Uh, what did you guys get? One of the coloring books. Oh ... uh ... that's cool.
Ok, so his balloon dog goes for 50 million and the 5th and worst of his coloring books goes for 8. Will you do a purple balloon sword for 12 million? Cool. Vivek, get out your check book. Fans are pissed and you can be the hero for 6 million.
It appears Mr. Koons is a world renowned talent. From the stories I've seen, I like some of this other stuff.
The real issue here is we are buying a crappy piece by Mr. Koons. It's not objectively a good Koons piece.
This is so Sacramento. We have a statue by Koon guys!!! Oh, cool one of the balloon dogs? No. The big Scotty dog? No. Balloon flowers? No. The broken open egg? No. Uh, what did you guys get? One of the coloring books. Oh ... uh ... that's cool.
Ok, so his balloon dog goes for 50 million and the 5th and worst of his coloring books goes for 8. Will you do a purple balloon sword for 12 million? Cool. Vivek, get out your check book. Fans are pissed and you can be the hero for 6 million.
The only problem for me is, why is a city like Sacramento going to pay between 1-6million for a piece of art when that money could go elsewhere? This is Sacramento where millions of dollars could really go towards something more beneficial for the city. This art piece does nothing for the community. The only people who will get to see it are fans attending the game. Seems like a huge waste of money for a city struggling like Sacramento.
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