Are we going to acknowledge how bad Huerter has been?

I think he might be playing through a minor injury. His form looks off and sometimes he is rubbing parts of his arm. But like midtowner says, he brings more than shooting. So I'm ok with how Brown is managing him right now (he's not closing games).
 
Since Jan 1

28.5 MPG
13.1 PPG
3.7 RPG
2.9 APG
33.6% from 3 on 6.3 3PA
57.6% TS
+35 +/- (+1.4/game)

Mostly, it seems just like a bad Feb:

11 GP
26.7 MPG
11.7 PPG
3.1 RPG
2.2 APG
28% from 3
56.2% TS

Like most role players, they go through rough stretches and Huerter is just in the middle of one right now. He's still be an above-average starter through the lens of the whole season numbers. Thankfully, basically as soon as he started to struggle, Monk and TD picked up their game and got out of their own slumps they were in.
 
Benching him is a horrid idea. He runs one of the best 2 man games in basketball with Domas and his gravity/spacing off-ball is a big reason we're one of the best offenses in basketball. Monk and TD are much better suited in bench microwave roles as they're better at creating their own shot. Huerter is much better in an off-ball shooter role that's more coveted next to 2 stars in Fox/Domas with the starters.
 
He is definitely in a shooting slump, and the other parts of his game looked bad just in the last 2 games. By this, I mean passing and finishing at the rim and defense, but as noted above, his off-ball movement is good. The good news for the team and us fans is that Monk and TD are stepping up and stepping in. This may make it harder for Kevin to find his groove, but if previous posters are right that he is nursing an injury, he might benefit from a few nights off, and as I stated, the team is in good shape to give it to him.
 
funkykingston said:
Huerter was on fire to start the season while Barnes played some of the worst basketball of his career. It happens.

What Mike Brown cares about is if a guy is making the right read, the right rotation, and taking the right shots. Despite his shooting slump and limitations on defense, Huerter still is.

You let him play through it.
Click to expand...

Speaking of HB. Since Feb 1:

12.4 PPG
4.1 RPG
1.5 APG
30% from 3 on 3.6 3PA
57.6% TS

He hasn't been pulling his weight either.
 
As has already been mentioned, you can't look at Huerter's struggles in a vacuum. His off-ball movement and two-man game with Domas are essential to the way in which the Kings offensive engine runs. There's a reason that the Kings have the #1 offense in the NBA, and Huerter is a huge part of it, even when he's struggling.
 
My fear is it, the slump being a work ethic (Spencer Hawes?) issue. Hope not. He is talented and capable, so was Hawes. Tmac is another one that didn't always play to his full strengths IMO. Greg Ostertag of Sacramento era. Sheldon Williams could have been a great player but didn't. I hope Huerter is not in that league but I fear. Other day, he was a step slower and seemed disinrested and we were loosing. Took him out and the team imroved instantly. Now, the injury or nag is comletely understanable but personally, I found him lttle 'disinterested' and I would love to be proven wrong.
 
The budding Huerter hate is ridiculous. In the threads I’ve noticed out of all our starters people seem to have the lowest tolerance of him not being perfect. Fox or Barnes are probably next. If he shoots 3-7 from three, people consider him to be struggling. That November no doubt made people spoiled.

As if TD or even Monk are the beacons of consistency. Remember Malik Monk was awful for two months straight after a scorching November? Where was the thread on that? TD is of course notoriously feast or famine.

Huerter has still mostly been a double digit scorer despite his three ball being unreliable the last couple of months and he draws insane attention from the opposing defenses. Clippers had Kawhi on him and he was actually very solid in the Clippers game.


Huerter is a veteran and proven hand. His shooting will return to its average form and he’s the best fit next to Domas.

If he doesn’t perform well and the other guards do. He plays 20 minutes and doesn’t close the game. That arrangement should be good enough.
 
The_Jamal said:
Speaking of HB. Since Feb 1:

12.4 PPG
4.1 RPG
1.5 APG
30% from 3 on 3.6 3PA
57.6% TS

He hasn't been pulling his weight either.
Click to expand...

But prior to that, he’d been pretty good.

Also, the luxury of having HB defensively against all the great wings across the league isn’t something to be taken for granted.

HB may not be an all-world elite defender, but he’s usually very solid and under appreciated.
 
KingsFanSince85 said:
But prior to that, he’d been pretty good.

Also, the luxury of having HB defensively against all the great wings across the league isn’t something to be taken for granted.

HB may not be an all-world elite defender, but he’s usually very solid and under appreciated.
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Agreed. The point I'm making is that role guys go through ups and downs throughout a season. They aren't stars because they don't have the same consistency as a Fox/Sabonis do on a nightly basis.

What's worked so well for the Kings this year is they've kind of rotated the role guys being amazing and sucking pretty well. Huerter started the year awesome, while HB forgot how to play basketball. Keegan had a rough Nov while Barnes got back to form. Monk struggled for like a 10-12 game stretch while Huerter/HB were playing well and now that's flipped where Monk/TD/Lyles are picking up the slack from Huerter and HB.
 
The_Jamal said:
Agreed. The point I'm making is that role guys go through ups and downs throughout a season. They aren't stars because they don't have the same consistency as a Fox/Sabonis do on a nightly basis.

What's worked so well for the Kings this year is they've kind of rotated the role guys being amazing and sucking pretty well. Huerter started the year awesome, while HB forgot how to play basketball. Keegan had a rough Nov while Barnes got back to form. Monk struggled for like a 10-12 game stretch while Huerter/HB were playing well and now that's flipped where Monk/TD/Lyles are picking up the slack from Huerter and HB.
Click to expand...

Huerter and Monk vs. HB and Keegan is an apples/oranges comparison in re shooting. Huerter and Monk are guaranteed to get touches when they're out there and, ya know, actually have plays run for them. HB and Keegan aren't - and both can go long periods of time w/out getting a shot up. Yes, Sabonis and Fox are the team's best players - AND consistency is waaaaaay easier to come by when you're touching the ball and have ample chances to create for yourself and others on most offensive trips vs. being frequently "disappeared" by your teammates/coaches. A lot easier for Fox than for HB to get into rhythm.

That Keegan is shooting from the perimeter as well as he is despite the herky-jerk of his touches and shots within and across games might be the most impressive part of his rookie season.
 
Woot! said:
Huerter and Monk vs. HB and Keegan is an apples/oranges comparison in re shooting. Huerter and Monk are guaranteed to get touches when they're out there and, ya know, actually have plays run for them. HB and Keegan aren't - and both can go long periods of time w/out getting a shot up. Yes, Sabonis and Fox are the team's best players - AND consistency is waaaaaay easier to come by when you're touching the ball and have ample chances to create for yourself and others on most offensive trips vs. being frequently "disappeared" by your teammates/coaches. A lot easier for Fox than for HB to get into rhythm.

That Keegan is shooting from the perimeter as well as he is despite the herky-jerk of his touches and shots within and across games might be the most impressive part of his rookie season.
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Ah here we go again. Blaming Barnes lack of aggression on lack of role is just tired at this point. 4 years in a Kings uni and he goes through the same patterns every year

I may agree with you if we don't see an 8-10 game stretch every season where Barnes looks like an outstanding 20 PPG scorer that shoots 6-8 FTA/game. He's just a passive player that occasionally finds bouts of aggressive scoring and is otherwise happy to stay in a C&S spacer role. Believe me, I'd much rather the 20 PPG Barnes stick around, but he just doesn't have the instinct for it. Which is totally fine; he's an excellent player at the most rare archetype in the NBA. But stop trying to believe he's something he's not.
 
Inclined to agree on Barnes. He's been at his best as the third/fourth best guy on a really good team. He went over to Dallas to expand his role and fell flat to the point they gave him away to us for original JJ. We also wanted him to be the #2 guy I think and it didn't happen.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Inclined to agree on Barnes. He's been at his best as the third/fourth best guy on a really good team. He went over to Dallas to expand his role and fell flat to the point they gave him away to us for original JJ. We also wanted him to be the #2 guy I think and it didn't happen.
Click to expand...

I’ve said for years Barnes would be a great 4th starter on a good team. Never would I imagine that would happen to us here!
 
midtowner said:
Slumps happen and Huerter’s off-ball movement is one of the keys to our starting unit. And he still provides spacing.

I’m down with reducing his minutes to 24-26 a game until his stroke returns. Benching him seems drastic.
Click to expand...
Yea that game against Dallas and Utah still stick out in my mind. He's still found ways to be smart and absolutely clutch for us and not just with 3's
 
Yeah from my obeservations there's certainly a lot of inconsistency outside of Fox and Sabonis.
Do we need another star quality player or can this team go a long ways with how it's cuŕrently constructed?
Maybe my memory doesn't serve me well anymore but recall all championship caliber teams not only had at least two stars but also a supporting cast that showed up nightly. Guess I don't know what to make of this musical chair slump talk.
 
jiimbob said:
Yeah from my obeservations there's certainly a lot of inconsistency outside of Fox and Sabonis.
Do we need another star quality player or can this team go a long ways with how it's cuŕrently constructed?
Maybe my memory doesn't serve me well anymore but recall all championship caliber teams not only had at least two stars but also a supporting cast that showed up nightly. Guess I don't know what to make of this musical chair slump talk.
Click to expand...

Hmm

But in a way, isn't the supporting cast (mostly) showing up nightly? Just not all at the same time. And the games where everyone IS rolling all at once, we seem to drop 130+ with ease lol.

Like I feel mostly good about the starters +Monk/TD/Lyles right now to play decently well most nights. Davion has honestly really been the outlier of the main-stays of the rotation where he just hasn't seemed to find a groove at any point this season. Maybe defensively, but certainly not on offense.
 
Part of Huerters issues are also that Brown has kind of replaced some of his minutes with TD as a result and that's going to make it tough to break out when you are at risk of getting yanked. That's what happens to role players, and while Huerter might be a little more at times, he's a role guy essentially so it is what it is. Also, flat out TD is a better threat with the ball and as teams have started to track the hand offs better depending on the team they face those pull up shots will get tougher. Until the Kings start losing you don't change a thing. If Fox cools off then it might be a huge problem though.
 
SacTownKid said:
Part of Huerters issues are also that Brown has kind of replaced some of his minutes with TD as a result and that's going to make it tough to break out when you are at risk of getting yanked. That's what happens to role players, and while Huerter might be a little more at times, he's a role guy essentially so it is what it is. Also, flat out TD is a better threat with the ball and as teams have started to track the hand offs better depending on the team they face those pull up shots will get tougher. Until the Kings start losing you don't change a thing. If Fox cools off then it might be a huge problem though.
Click to expand...

What's interesting about all of Monk/Huerter/TD is they're not just C&S spacers or off-ball players. All of them have some on-ball level of creation. And I think what's tough is Huerter is obviously asked to play off of Domas and Fox so he doesn't get to access that part of his game as much as Monk or TD do when they're looked at to carry a bigger part of the scoring load because usually one of Fox or Domas is out of the game when they're on the floor.

I do wish Brown would be more willing to let Huerter play the 3 and get some run when he's not on the floor with Domas. Might be more anecdotal, but it does seem like his minutes are pretty closely matched with Domas
 
The_Jamal said:
Ah here we go again. Blaming Barnes lack of aggression on lack of role is just tired at this point. 4 years in a Kings uni and he goes through the same patterns every year

I may agree with you if we don't see an 8-10 game stretch every season where Barnes looks like an outstanding 20 PPG scorer that shoots 6-8 FTA/game. He's just a passive player that occasionally finds bouts of aggressive scoring and is otherwise happy to stay in a C&S spacer role. Believe me, I'd much rather the 20 PPG Barnes stick around, but he just doesn't have the instinct for it. Which is totally fine; he's an excellent player at the most rare archetype in the NBA. But stop trying to believe he's something he's not.
Click to expand...

I think there is some truth to the Murray and Barnes thing though but one doesn't do it because they don't have the apparent skill and the other doesn't because they don't want to, it's odd because both might be untrue depending on playcalls. An interesting question is whether it's better to have the skills and just not use them, or not have them at all, haha. Hopefully we aren't saying the same things about Keegan in a few seasons. This is why Brown putting emphasis on Murray being more aggressive is huge. He's tracking a little more like Barnes when it comes to that so far. The difference is Barnes in iso is much more effective whereas Keegan looks pretty awkward at times driving into the lane and getting shots up as a face up player. Which he's hardly done this season, so much so that he's STILL not even registering on the iso stat charts. Keegans big games always come with 80-90 percent of his offense assisted.
 
pdxKingsFan said:
Inclined to agree on Barnes. He's been at his best as the third/fourth best guy on a really good team. He went over to Dallas to expand his role and fell flat to the point they gave him away to us for original JJ. We also wanted him to be the #2 guy I think and it didn't happen.
Click to expand...

or 5th. He wasn't the 3rd or 4th best player when he played for Golden State. That was quite a hope and stretch by Dallas
 
ShastaKingsFan said:
or 5th. He wasn't the 3rd or 4th best player when he played for Golden State. That was quite a hope and stretch by Dallas
Click to expand...
They drafted two of the best players to come through the NBA in the last 25 years and a lot of hoping and stretching beyond that.
 
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