Are Our Bigs Too Nice?

[Kingster]

I replayed about the first 5 minutes of the Laker game and I saw something from Hawes (my favorite player) that I just didn't like. On offense, he was on the opposite side of the ball and Fischer of all people was guarding him. Well the shot was taken on the opposite side and what does Fischer do? He puts both forearms on Hawes (about mid-section) and just pushes Hawes about 5 feet away from the trajectory of the ball so Hawes couldn't grab the rebound. If memory serves, I think Fischer might have gotten the darn rebound. So here's a 6 footer just shoving the 7 footer out of the way. Shouldn't Hawes just put the guy on the ground in a situation like that? Maybe Reggie needs to bring out the old Detroit Bill Lambier tapes to see how it's done.

 

[Larry89]

That and Brad Miller gets owned by everyone nowadays

 

[Prince_XY]

I think they are, which shouldn't be the case.

Actually there are times I see the BIGS as feeling scared - or nice as you say. When they are up against the likes of Oden and Howard, they just wouldn't try their best boxing-them-out first, or block shots, or get the rebounds, the same way the other guys are doing. And to think they are as tall as their opponent, you just wondered if they don't have balls and are afraid to get hurt, or scared of hurting the other. Whatever the reason it is pathetic, because they look like sissies being bullied and not doing anything about it.

And why wouldn't they try dunking the ball forceably and emphatically on Oden, Bynum, or Howard's faces when the other guys are doing the same thing on them? They sometimes wouldn't even nudge their way to the basket for a dunk just like how Howard, Bynum, or Oden are doing.

I think the trainers of our bigs should teach our BIGS the art of legally nudging in basketball.

 

[sactownfan]

I replayed about the first 5 minutes of the Laker game and I saw something from Hawes (my favorite player) that I just didn't like. On offense, he was on the opposite side of the ball and Fischer of all people was guarding him. Well the shot was taken on the opposite side and what does Fischer do? He puts both forearms on Hawes (about mid-section) and just pushes Hawes about 5 feet away from the trajectory of the ball so Hawes couldn't grab the rebound. If memory serves, I think Fischer might have gotten the darn rebound. So here's a 6 footer just shoving the 7 footer out of the way. Shouldn't Hawes just put the guy on the ground in a situation like that? Maybe Reggie needs to bring out the old Detroit Bill Lambier tapes to see how it's done.

well in this case... Fischer is a pretty stocky PG 6'1 and 210lbs and because hes so much shorter, he can get under Hawes.

Its not easy trying to move such a stocky little guy thats under you.

I WOULD ONLY BE CONCERNED IF IT WAS A REALLY SKINNY TALL SKINNY GUY. I think Hawes has done a pretty good job at pushing back against other bigs, He's maybe just one more year away from being more confident with it.

 

[bajaden]

I'll tell you exactly what would have happened if Hawes retaliated. The ref's obviously didn't see the first push but would have seen Hawes retaliating and would have hit him with a technical. Then the next day, everyone on this fourm would be critizising Hawes for losing his cool.

 

[VF21]

I'll tell you exactly what would have happened if Hawes retaliated. The ref's obviously didn't see the first push but would have seen Hawes retaliating and would have hit him with a technical. Then the next day, everyone on this fourm would be critizising Hawes for losing his cool.

Exactly. I think Hawes actually showed maturity in handling the situation. I don't think he has any problem with mixing it up inside, etc. but these things are just the occasional no-win event you just let go by but remember.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'll tell you exactly what would have happened if Hawes retaliated. The ref's obviously didn't see the first push but would have seen Hawes retaliating and would have hit him with a technical. Then the next day, everyone on this fourm would be critizising Hawes for losing his cool.

Not everyone.

Let's put this this way -- this isn't really about being "nice". Jason Thompson is a nice guy. Maybe too nice. But he would never let a twerp push him out of rebounding position. He wouldn't clobber him, whihc is really too bad, but he'd be wrestling with him, going over him, around him, through him, chasing that ball. Spencer does ok as a reboudner most nights, but he doesn;t have that passion for the dirty work.

 

[RalphySampson]

You need to change the word "nice" to "soft." Brad Miller is the only player that I'd say is soft. I can't really say that about Hawes or JT. I agree with the previous poster about how to handle that Fisher situation. If Hawes throws him to the ground then he likely would pick up at least a personal foul and possibly a flagrant if it's blantant enough.

I don't really think Hawes deserves any critisism about getting rebounds. He's showing that he has a pretty good knack for grabbing boards.

 

[Kingster]

You need to change the word "nice" to "soft." Brad Miller is the only player that I'd say is soft. I can't really say that about Hawes or JT. I agree with the previous poster about how to handle that Fisher situation. If Hawes throws him to the ground then he likely would pick up at least a personal foul and possibly a flagrant if it's blantant enough.

I don't really think Hawes deserves any critisism about getting rebounds. He's showing that he has a pretty good knack for grabbing boards.

I'm not advocating throwing Fisher to the ground, but it seems to me that if Fisher is pushing Hawes with his forearms close to his body that Hawes should then be allowed to push Fisher with his forearms close to his body. And even though Fisher is strong, I don't think he would win that battle. When I look at other teams that are good in this area, when the shot is in the air, the first thing they do is push with their forearms or back hard into their man to get position for the rebound. Then they go for the ball. With the Kings, I just see the going for the ball part. I say, HAMMER the guy next to with your body every time the ball is in the air. Without knowing how exactly refs call this stuff, it's pretty rare refs call players on action away from the ball anyway, so get out there and whamm the opponent when the ball is shot.

 

[Spike]

Hawes bought me a chalupa once. I'd say that's pretty nice.

I'm with everyone else - if anything, it showed maturity. HOWEVER - faced with a similar situation in the future, I'd encourage Hawes to consciously hip check Fisher into the cheap seats while positioning for a rebound. It's the neighborly thing to do, after all.

 

[Dime Dropper]

You need to change the word "nice" to "soft." Brad Miller is the only player that I'd say is soft. I can't really say that about Hawes or JT. I agree with the previous poster about how to handle that Fisher situation. If Hawes throws him to the ground then he likely would pick up at least a personal foul and possibly a flagrant if it's blantant enough.

I don't really think Hawes deserves any critisism about getting rebounds. He's showing that he has a pretty good knack for grabbing boards.

I have to hand it to you - I've never seen a poster as determined to put down a player in all his posts in my life!

 

[HighTopKicks]

I'm not advocating throwing Fisher to the ground, but it seems to me that if Fisher is pushing Hawes with his forearms close to his body that Hawes should then be allowed to push Fisher with his forearms close to his body. And even though Fisher is strong, I don't think he would win that battle. When I look at other teams that are good in this area, when the shot is in the air, the first thing they do is push with their forearms or back hard into their man to get position for the rebound. Then they go for the ball. With the Kings, I just see the going for the ball part. I say, HAMMER the guy next to with your body every time the ball is in the air. Without knowing how exactly refs call this stuff, it's pretty rare refs call players on action away from the ball anyway, so get out there and whamm the opponent when the ball is shot.

If Spencer uses his forarms he probably catches Fisher above the shoulders and ends up with a personal. But, its not just the little guys, Hawes sometimes takes himself out of the play when he gets boxed out by other bigs. More than once, I've noticed him go behind the backboard to reposition himself rather than fight through the block.

IMHO, he could have spun out of the block by Fisher and gotten himself closer and in front of the rim. When he's boxed out around the basket, he needs to fight for better position or stay put and hope for a long rebound. He needs to stop going behind the backboard where he's putting himself completely out of rebounding position.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

Hawes is soft right now. Yes, he blocks shots and has shown better ability to defend and rebound than before, but he still would rather hang out on the perimeter, doesn't like to scrap when push comes to shove defensively, and so far has been unwilling to bang in the post consistently and utilize his postgame. But, he's only 20 years old, and chances are that when he matures physically and mentally, he'll grow out of it.

 

[oaklandking]

My coach tells me if a guys does that stuff to lay them on their *** but you now danny fortson wasnt nice and he sucked so i dont think lates a real big deal

 

[OptimusRhyme]

Id like to see harder fouls in the paint. On dunk attempts and layups, no easy baskets.

 

[Warhawk]

Hawes is soft right now. Yes, he blocks shots and has shown better ability to defend and rebound than before, but he still would rather hang out on the perimeter, doesn't like to scrap when push comes to shove defensively, and so far has been unwilling to bang in the post consistently and utilize his postgame. But, he's only 20 years old, and chances are that when he matures physically and mentally, he'll grow out of it.

I also see him battling for position time and time again and the ball never gets thrown in to him; he has to come out to set a screen and then gets the ball near the high post area. It isn't his fault the ball isn't going down low....

 

[gunks]

My coach tells me if a guys does that stuff to lay them on their *** but you now danny fortson wasnt nice and he sucked so i dont think lates a real big deal

Yeah...But Danny Fortson was a pretty good rebounder