Another take

T

Turgenev

Starter
#1
#1
Poor start to the season reinforces that Kings players, staff, and fans should be proud of achievements last season. Media, advanced algorithms, etc, predicted they would barely win 20 games. Additional off court drama (e.g. coach vs front office), roster changes, injuries, sulky coach, also difficult to deal with. Good performance last season, praise of players during international camps/ comps, some good additions, also shows that team have the ability to compete for playoffs again.

Perhaps Luke not guy to take us fwd, but for now he's coach, so I'll root for him + team to figure it out while he is here.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#5
#5
Albatros said:
If anything the rot set in last season and has just continued.
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I swear to god many, many folks are just erasing last season after the ASB. Or blaming the players for that and the coach for now. This team went downhill in a hurry and this is a continuation. Easy to look at the bigger picture of a 39 win season from years in the 20s and miss the horrid, horrid finish we had where we were a .300 team again.
 
gunks

gunks

Hall of Famer
#6
#6
pdxKingsFan said:
I swear to god many, many folks are just erasing last season after the ASB. Or blaming the players for that and the coach for now. This team went downhill in a hurry and this is a continuation. Easy to look at the bigger picture of a 39 win season from years in the 20s and miss the horrid, horrid finish we had where we were a .300 team again.
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Indeed. The league figured out Joerger's gimmicky run fast offense and shut us down.

Under Luke, we don't even bother to run fast. But none of the soft, low BBIQ players on this roster can play in the half court so oh well.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#7
#7
gunks said:
Indeed. The league figured out Joerger's gimmicky run fast offense and shut us down.

Under Luke, we don't even bother to run fast. But none of the soft, low BBIQ players on this roster can play in the half court so oh well.
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I'd like to believe it's not that hopeless but I'm probably not going to set aside my evenings until Giles and Bags come back.

Although I'd like whatever it is we're pumping through the locker room at halftime so I can stop caring about our performance as much as the players seem to when they come out to start the 3rd quarter.
 
captain bill

captain bill

Starter
#8
#8
pdxKingsFan said:
I swear to god many, many folks are just erasing last season after the ASB. Or blaming the players for that and the coach for now. This team went downhill in a hurry and this is a continuation. Easy to look at the bigger picture of a 39 win season from years in the 20s and miss the horrid, horrid finish we had where we were a .300 team again.
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going 9-16 and fading down the stretch as a young team is entirely different from what’s happening this year. I also wasn’t happy with the trades - giving up 2 huge culture guys was such a dumb move (and yes that includes JJack who could shoot and was childhood friends w Fox. It was a tall order to retool a roster AND keep a young group focused and together trying to get that 8 spot in a brutal west.

saying that stretch exposed Joerger as a bad coach is only slightly less stupid than saying mike Malone was exposed as bad when cousins went out
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#9
#9
captain bill said:
going 9-16 and fading down the stretch as a young team is entirely different from what’s happening this year. I also wasn’t happy with the trades - giving up 2 huge culture guys was such a dumb move (and yes that includes JJack who could shoot and was childhood friends w Fox. It was a tall order to retool a roster AND keep a young group focused and together trying to get that 8 spot in a brutal west.

saying that stretch exposed Joerger as a bad coach is only slightly less stupid than saying mike Malone was exposed as bad when cousins went out
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This. Completely different situations and those criticising Joerger are entirely confused about what was actually happening compared to what we're seeing now.

Joerger is a good coach. Walton is not. Joerger will get another gig. I doubt Walton will if he crashes out here.
 
TaxMan

TaxMan

Starter
#11
#11
Dime Dropper said:
This. Completely different situations and those criticising Joerger are entirely confused about what was actually happening compared to what we're seeing now.

Joerger is a good coach. Walton is not. Joerger will get another gig. I doubt Walton will if he crashes out here.
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I'm not so confident Joerger gets another head coaching chance in the NBA. I think he may have burned too many bridges. I wouldn't be surprised to see him show up as a HC at a second rung college program. Sort of the Eric Mussleman revival.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#12
#12
Incidentally by the same metric - turn a lousy 20 win team into a 9th place 30 win team - Walton is as good a coach as Joerger. He also was pretty danged good with the Warriors. He may be pretty in over his head right now.

Also can someone pull the Kings record without Marvin last year? Also record without Marvin or Giles? Because I actually think a few of the skids we hit involved Bagley missing time. But everyone is going back to the "we didn't pick Doncic" narrative rather than acknowledging we're missing a central part of the roster right now.

eta: there were also very real concerns about both of those guys not getting minutes towards the end of season in games we would go on to lose. This Joerger is amazing is really some revisionist crap. Malone, now there's a guy we should never have let go.
 
macadocious

macadocious

Starter
#13
#13
9-11 without Bagley. Not sure about Giles, he barely played some game he played, so that's not going to be a useful metric.

I don't get how we are out of shape as a team. Especially when all the training camp video were of this team running up and down the court. This is really bizarre. It would not shock me if something totally out of the blue came out that made all this make sense.
 
pdxKingsFan

pdxKingsFan

So Ordinary That It's Truly Quite Extraordinary
Staff member
#14
#14
macadocious said:
9-11 without Bagley. Not sure about Giles, he barely played some game he played, so that's not going to be a useful metric.

I don't get how we are out of shape as a team. Especially when all the training camp video were of this team running up and down the court. This is really bizarre. It would not shock me if something totally out of the blue came out that made all this make sense.
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I was only half joking about whatever might be pumped through our locker room at halftime.
 
LPKingsFan

LPKingsFan

All-Star
#15
#15
pdxKingsFan said:
Incidentally by the same metric - turn a lousy 20 win team into a 9th place 30 win team - Walton is as good a coach as Joerger. He also was pretty danged good with the Warriors. He may be pretty in over his head right now.

Also can someone pull the Kings record without Marvin last year? Also record without Marvin or Giles? Because I actually think a few of the skids we hit involved Bagley missing time. But everyone is going back to the "we didn't pick Doncic" narrative rather than acknowledging we're missing a central part of the roster right now.

eta: there were also very real concerns about both of those guys not getting minutes towards the end of season in games we would go on to lose. This Joerger is amazing is really some revisionist crap. Malone, now there's a guy we should never have let go.
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not sure if the numbers support this, but I remember feeling during several of the very close losses, including against the warriors, that they really missed having another go-to guy in Bagley out there, especially when Fox rested.
 
P

ppine

Starter
#17
#17
pdxKingsFan said:
Joerger was a good coach but he deserved to get fired based on the way the season ended and the internal issues he was a part of.

Whether or not Walton is a good coach or the right choice is a separate issue entirely.
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They are not separate issues, If Joerger doesn't get fired, then Walton is not the new coach.
 
S

Sactown ExPat

Starter
#19
#19
pdxKingsFan said:
Incidentally by the same metric - turn a lousy 20 win team into a 9th place 30 win team - Walton is as good a coach as Joerger. He also was pretty danged good with the Warriors. He may be pretty in over his head right now.

Also can someone pull the Kings record without Marvin last year? Also record without Marvin or Giles? Because I actually think a few of the skids we hit involved Bagley missing time. But everyone is going back to the "we didn't pick Doncic" narrative rather than acknowledging we're missing a central part of the roster right now.

eta: there were also very real concerns about both of those guys not getting minutes towards the end of season in games we would go on to lose. This Joerger is amazing is really some revisionist crap. Malone, now there's a guy we should never have let go.
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Yes, and that’s cause Bagley is the only guy that can get buckets. Fox has the potential, but he needs to start leaning on officials early in games and with authority. He doesn’t have that in him yet. Once he starts demanding refs give him calls, he’ll be a better late game option.
 
D

dude12

Hall of Famer
#20
#20
Sorry, the mindset that Joerger deserved to get fired is so effing lame. Yeah, he’s a ***** to deal with as far as front offices go but so are more than a few head coaches out there. He AND his staff deserved to see this through. Remember his staff was under fire from Williams. I guess he should have looked past that and been all hugs and kisses with the front office. Traded the emotional veteran who was leading the team. I guess look past that too.

Nope, he showed improvement on the whole year with a young team. They outperformed what was expected. He is what this team and players need. Walton’s style sure the hell looks like we are going to continue being soft. No one and I mean no one can’t deny that is what we are seeing.
 
Dime Dropper

Dime Dropper

All-Star
#21
#21
dude12 said:
Sorry, the mindset that Joerger deserved to get fired is so effing lame. Yeah, he’s a ***** to deal with as far as front offices go but so are more than a few head coaches out there. He AND his staff deserved to see this through. Remember his staff was under fire from Williams. I guess he should have looked past that and been all hugs and kisses with the front office. Traded the emotional veteran who was leading the team. I guess look past that too.

Nope, he showed improvement on the whole year with a young team. They outperformed what was expected. He is what this team and players need. Walton’s style sure the hell looks like we are going to continue being soft. No one and I mean no one can’t deny that is what we are seeing.
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This is the accurate story, and it doesn't mean I think Joerger was amazing. The people rewriting history are the ones claiming Joerger was the main cause of our poor finish, brushing over all the other factors, and ignoring the fact that he absolutely overachieved on the season based on expectations.

I don't care if he wasn't the easiest to deal with. I wouldn't be either given the amount of dysfunction in the organisation at the time (glad we're so much better now...)

Walton has achieved nothing as a coach. He was hated by Lakers fans and had Magic on his back for having no system whatsoever. Don't even talk to me about the Warriors.
 
J

jellyfish

Bench
#22
#22
ppine said:
Sure it is. Wait until this year is over and compare it to last year.
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Failing is still failing this year we are getting knockout in the first against a tougher more loaded west last year we got got knockout in the 8th round in the weakest west conference in like 20 years. The Kings might not have overachieved at all last year because the bad teams in both conferences were historically bad and we feasted on them this year those teams are better.
 
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