Allen Iverson - MERGED
- Thread starter SLAB
- Start date
I like that sound of that!!
thatguy
Bench
I'm going to go ahead and chime in here so everyone can point and laugh at me later. What I predict - and this is skewed because I think bringing Iverson to the Kings would be a disaster - is if the Kings are involved with this trade, Iverson won't be coming to the Kings.
The thought of watching an offense that features Iverson, Artest and Shareef is not enticing at all. Think the offense looks stagnant now?
The thought of watching an offense that features Iverson, Artest and Shareef is not enticing at all. Think the offense looks stagnant now?
The Hammer
All-Star
I would have to agree with this point of view. I think something will happen with the Kings, but we won't end up with Iverson.
El_Filibusterismo
Prospect
King of Scoring + King of Defense + Arco Thunder = Kings of NBA
Kingzrool
Starter
How about I just go ahead and do it now?
Seriously, stagnant? Maybe inefficient, maybe exciting, maybe explosive, but stagnant?
If GP gets this done, he'll get a couple more years of free ride with me!
Bricklayer
Don't Make Me Use The Bat
This is true as well -- Iverson does not catch and shoot, nor does he cut and shoot. He needs to be dribbling. That's really why he has to dictate teh Iverson offense rather than being a universally applicable player. He is uncomfortable in the various otehr roels/situations that come up. They tried to speciafically implement some stuff with Webb last year, pick and roills and whatnot to get Iverson some easy scores, but he basically jsut rejected it. No insincts for it, and woould jsut start dribbling again out of it. Was veyr uncomfortable with the ball stopping out of his hands and moving around wihtout it. He's kind of the anti-Peja -- EVERYTHING happens when the leather (glad we are getting back toi that) touches his hand, not before.
thatguy
Bench
Yeah, stagnant - seriously. All three of those guys need to dominate the ball to 'do what they do.'How about I just go ahead and do it now?
Seriously, stagnant? Maybe inefficient, maybe exciting, maybe explosive, but stagnant?
If GP gets this done, he'll get a couple more years of free ride with me!
They'll be two guys shooting far less than 45% taking the majority of the shots. With little or no rebounding improvement (if Iverson is the only acquisition - otherwise the Kings should change their name to 76ers West). Exciting.
But, yeah, you can point and laugh if you want. Just another day...
The Hammer
All-Star
For all we know it could have been Colleen.
gunks
Hall of Famer
I agree....Its always exciting to think about a superstar coming to the Kings...But I dunno about AI.
He'll show up....We may or may not get more wins...But Iverson in town would bring down a lot of our player's numbers. We dont need a player that makes his teammates worse...Even if it is 30 pts on 25 shots Iverson.
The problem I have, is, if they did have a player like K-Mart, would we ever see him? Iguodala is very versitile but he's so underutilized when AI is on the floor.
AI would be the death of Martin, Price, Garcia, Salmons (for the 2nd time). They'd be standing around watching. Needless to say, Bibby would be completely obsolete in an AI offense, understanding why his name comes up in any trade.
Kingzrool
Starter
I really do not think that a guy with the heart and passion of AI is going to "make his teamates worse".
I remember hearing that Artest would rip apart our team as well, although it still may be to early to tell with Ron, I think he was well worth the risk. Think where we would be right now if the Maloofs were not the kind of guys to jump on something like this. The rebuiling fans would be happy with our picks last and this year that is for sure.
Besides AI and Artest could do the half-time show
.
I remember hearing that Artest would rip apart our team as well, although it still may be to early to tell with Ron, I think he was well worth the risk. Think where we would be right now if the Maloofs were not the kind of guys to jump on something like this. The rebuiling fans would be happy with our picks last and this year that is for sure.
Besides AI and Artest could do the half-time show
.
Elise10
Starter
Time might have arrived to say good-bye to AI
Phil Jasner | Time might have arrived to say goodbye to A.I.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/16212343.htm
LARRY BIRD turned 50 last week, leaving columnists and reporters around the country to treat it as a historic, celebratory moment, to revel in the memory of Larry Legend.
Billy King, who is several years younger than Bird, aged far more rapidly in the last few days. Sadly, his product has grown even older.
Another day, another Allen Iverson situation.
Consider this somewhat incomplete timeline, starting at the beginning of last season:
• Maurice Cheeks is named the head coach of the 76ers, the fourth coach since Larry Brown.
• Iverson says if you can't play for Cheeks, you can't play for anybody.
• Iverson says that because he knew Cheeks for five seasons as an assistant coach and enjoyed Cheeks' low-key, laid-back manner, he probably took advantage of that relationship last season. Iverson says it's only human nature, but that it still shouldn't happen.
• The Sixers lose a game in Miami in which Iverson launches 37 shots, the second-most ever taken by one player against the Heat. No one in the Sixers' locker room is happy.
• The Miami Herald reports that Iverson, the night before, hosts a late-night party at an area club.
• Iverson leaves practice early one day last week, citing the lingering effects of dental surgery to remove an abscessed wisdom tooth. That night, he blows off a mandatory team appearance at a meet-and-greet for sponsors, premium seat holders and some season-ticketholders.
• King levies the $20,000 fine for a missed appearance that is listed in the team's player handbook.
• Cheeks says whatever happened between Iverson and him earlier in the day should be kept private.
• King, the team president and GM says whatever happened earlier in the day has been addressed. He does not say how.
• Iverson doesn't play the fourth quarter of a blowout loss in Chicago, citing back spasms.
• He does not practice the following day in Philadelphia.
• At Friday's shootaround, he says he is playing that night against Washington. Instead, he is told he does not have to participate in the morning workout. Later, he is told he is not playing that night, that he does not have to come to the Wachovia Center and that he will not be traveling for Saturday night's game in Orlando.
• Again, back spasms are cited. King and Cheeks say Iverson has not been suspended and is not being disciplined.
• Iverson issues a statemen defending his position. In it, he says a change in scenery might be the best thing, but that he truly wanted to retire as a Sixer.
• Ed Snider, the chairman of the ownership group that oversees, among other entities, the Sixers and the Flyers, says Iverson will be accommodated.
Has Iverson played his last game as a Sixer? Snider says, "Probably."
Has Iverson's time passed in Philadelphia? Snider says "Yes."
Is that a signal that the Sixers will no longer tolerate the types of
things that have gone before? Snider says "Yes."
But Snider also says King and Cheeks have his full support. He says their jobs are in no jeopardy.
Phil Jasner | Time might have arrived to say goodbye to A.I.
http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/sports/16212343.htm
LARRY BIRD turned 50 last week, leaving columnists and reporters around the country to treat it as a historic, celebratory moment, to revel in the memory of Larry Legend.
Billy King, who is several years younger than Bird, aged far more rapidly in the last few days. Sadly, his product has grown even older.
Another day, another Allen Iverson situation.
Consider this somewhat incomplete timeline, starting at the beginning of last season:
• Maurice Cheeks is named the head coach of the 76ers, the fourth coach since Larry Brown.
• Iverson says if you can't play for Cheeks, you can't play for anybody.
• Iverson says that because he knew Cheeks for five seasons as an assistant coach and enjoyed Cheeks' low-key, laid-back manner, he probably took advantage of that relationship last season. Iverson says it's only human nature, but that it still shouldn't happen.
• The Sixers lose a game in Miami in which Iverson launches 37 shots, the second-most ever taken by one player against the Heat. No one in the Sixers' locker room is happy.
• The Miami Herald reports that Iverson, the night before, hosts a late-night party at an area club.
• Iverson leaves practice early one day last week, citing the lingering effects of dental surgery to remove an abscessed wisdom tooth. That night, he blows off a mandatory team appearance at a meet-and-greet for sponsors, premium seat holders and some season-ticketholders.
• King levies the $20,000 fine for a missed appearance that is listed in the team's player handbook.
• Cheeks says whatever happened between Iverson and him earlier in the day should be kept private.
• King, the team president and GM says whatever happened earlier in the day has been addressed. He does not say how.
• Iverson doesn't play the fourth quarter of a blowout loss in Chicago, citing back spasms.
• He does not practice the following day in Philadelphia.
• At Friday's shootaround, he says he is playing that night against Washington. Instead, he is told he does not have to participate in the morning workout. Later, he is told he is not playing that night, that he does not have to come to the Wachovia Center and that he will not be traveling for Saturday night's game in Orlando.
• Again, back spasms are cited. King and Cheeks say Iverson has not been suspended and is not being disciplined.
• Iverson issues a statemen defending his position. In it, he says a change in scenery might be the best thing, but that he truly wanted to retire as a Sixer.
• Ed Snider, the chairman of the ownership group that oversees, among other entities, the Sixers and the Flyers, says Iverson will be accommodated.
Has Iverson played his last game as a Sixer? Snider says, "Probably."
Has Iverson's time passed in Philadelphia? Snider says "Yes."
Is that a signal that the Sixers will no longer tolerate the types of
things that have gone before? Snider says "Yes."
But Snider also says King and Cheeks have his full support. He says their jobs are in no jeopardy.
nbrans
All-Star
I guess I don't agree. For one, I think you'll see AI come in and make at least a temporary show of deferring to teammates and trying to fit in. And I think KMart's game (outside shooting and slashing) is much more conducive for an AI sidekick than Iguodala, who is a decent spot up shooter and a great dunker, but is not great at slashing and creating.
Salmons is the guy who would suffer because he needs the ball in his hands to get his own shot and to pass to others. As long as AI is on the floor that's not going to happen. But I think Salmon's unhappiness was probably more pressing when he was trying to play for a deal. Now that he has his 5 year contract he doesn't have to worry as much about how his stats look, and I hope he'll continue to bring his solid defense.
BawLa
Starter
I think fans are underestimating the positive influence A.I. could have on this team. I don't disagree that he is a ball hog and that he could potentially hinder the progress of our younger players. However, I for one do not want to see the Kings move outside of Sacramento. With that said I would be willing to see an A.I. offense if it meant that the Kings stay in Sac.
I am of the opinion that we put up with his style for the rest of his contract, or next 3 years, in order to bring a new arena to Sac. Then we can go from there.
I am of the opinion that we put up with his style for the rest of his contract, or next 3 years, in order to bring a new arena to Sac. Then we can go from there.
You wouldn't think so. But you should have watched Philly the last two years. It happened.
I remember hearing that Artest would rip apart our team as well, although it still may be to early to tell with Ron, I think he was well worth the risk. Think where we would be right now if the Maloofs were not the kind of guys to jump on something like this. The rebuiling fans would be happy with our picks last and this year that is for sure.
Besides AI and Artest could do the half-time show
Artest and AI have very different issues.
I don't think anyone ever claimed Artest was a ball-hog. I sure never saw that with him. I know watching him play throughout his career, he was always a tough defender. His issue was more "off the court", not coming to practice, and especially that fight with fans in Detroit. He has a temper.
As for AI, his issue is his playing style on the court. He's the epitome of the new NBA player in all ways that are not good. He's all about himself on the court. His off the court problems are "practice". And apparently partying in Atlantic City when he's supposed to be at "practice". Philly is trading him for this very reason.
thatguy
Bench
This seems akin to saying, "Don't worry. It'll only hurt later."
How would having AI here bring a new arena? Most people in Sac already think NBA players are selfish jerks with too much money. I don't see how perpetuating that stereotype with AI would help get an arena.
Korver doesn't even start. He comes off the bench and has games where he might get 2 shots if he's lucky.
Every player that has come to the Kings with baggage has been given a clean slate. And almost always it's worked out.
IF Allen Iverson came to the Kings, I would be willing to bet he'd surprise a lot of people. For one thing, is there any doubt he would want to show that he wasn't the problem, that he can play with a team, etc?
IF Iverson came, there would be excitement in Kings land once again. That leads to positive feelings about the team and that could easily lead to a better feel about building a new arena.
Granted, this is all still highly speculative, but why are people so quick to look for the black lining to the cloud and not willing to embrace the possible silver lining?
It is a two-sided coin, folks.
Just my three cents...
IF Allen Iverson came to the Kings, I would be willing to bet he'd surprise a lot of people. For one thing, is there any doubt he would want to show that he wasn't the problem, that he can play with a team, etc?
IF Iverson came, there would be excitement in Kings land once again. That leads to positive feelings about the team and that could easily lead to a better feel about building a new arena.
Granted, this is all still highly speculative, but why are people so quick to look for the black lining to the cloud and not willing to embrace the possible silver lining?
It is a two-sided coin, folks.
Just my three cents...
What about Raja Bell? What about Glenn Robinson, the same Robinson that was somehow able to share the ball with Vin Baker (back when he was good) and Ray Allen, and then later with Sam F. Cassell and Ray Allen?
You can make an All-Star team out of players whose careers were either derailed or ruined while playing with Iverson; players that were good before going to Philadelphia ceased to be good while playing there; players that started there didn't become good until after leaving there... and at least one case where a player (Kukoc) was good before playing with Iverson, became mediocre while playing with Iverson, and immediately became better again after getting traded from Philadelphia. It absolutely boggles my mind that there are still people who don't realize that he's the only common denominator.
Yes, a "clean slate" for the off-court issues. We've certainly done that.
But this isn't about the off-court issues, it's about how he plays the game. We can't change how he plays the game. Nobody ever has. Even Larry Brown wanted to trade him because of how he plays the game.
Considering Larry wants everybody to play "his way" and fights with everybody, you didn't exactly help your argument...
I wouldn't view anything Larry Brown wanted to do without including a very large grain of salt.
They said Webber wouldn't work out either. Said he was too selfish and would never be able to play the "team" game.
All I'm saying is you can predict how you think he would act, but you can't really say for sure until/unless he actually gets here.
I'm not a Larry Brown fan, but the man has been an extremely successful coach and had a personal relationship with AI. And still he couldn't get AI to be a team-player.
Webber's always been a team player his whole career. Those who said otherwise before he got here just didn't know him.
nbrans
All-Star
Glenn Robinson isn't a good comparison, because he was yet another guy who needed the ball in the post to do his slow moves. And it's not like he had such a bad year considering that he was basically done the year after -- he played a tiny bit with San Antonio and then he was done.
Raja Bell hardly got on the floor in Philly -- blame Larry Brown, not AI.
Look, I'm not trying to say AI isn't a hamper on some guys. People like Salmons, Hughes, Stackhouse, all the types of people who are used to either holding the ball on the post or dribbling around on the perimeter are going to be hampered by AI. All I'm saying is that Kevin Martin and Miller are not these types of guys, and I don't think they'd have a problem meshing with AI.
SAR? Problem. Salmons? Problem. Martin and Miller? At least in my opinion, no problem.
Larry Brown is only interested in one thing: Larry Brown. Sorry, but any argument that includes reference to him and his abilities is not going to carry much weight in my book.
I think if a trade brings Iverson to Sacramento we have to at least give him the opportunity to show how he can fit in. Why wouldn't we? Assuming ahead of time that he won't work is defeatist IMHO... And it's not like any of us have any real say in the matter anyway.
I'm still maintaining that people should at least be willing to keep an open mind.
carmichaeldave
Bench
First off, this has been an interesting few days. I can't help but think you could cut and paste many comments I've been seeing/hearing, and they would sound eerily familiar:
"The Kings need a spark"
"The Kings roster is too lackadaisical, we need someone new, with fire"
"He gets a clean slate here, watch how he meshes"
"This is what the fans need to get excited"
Well, just a few months after the Kings got Ron Artest, here we are again. Sure, many things are different. But I think there's a reason why Geoff has been so successful, he doesnt jump just because it looks good on paper.
I think caution is necessary, and I think its too easy to give into the hype of something new, no matter how fun and flashy it looks.
That being said....
I wanted to have fun like everyone else, so here's my idea, which works under the cap.
I can't see the Kings trading Brad (as rough a year as he's having), because he really is there ONLY big man. Yes, you could get Dalembert back, but he just signed a fat extension last summer, and I'm not sure you want to take that on with AI's contract, and Ron's impending opt out clause.
So here's what I think:
Philly trades:
Iverson
Iguodala
Sac trades:
Bibby
Martin
Williamson
Here's why:
Now all of a sudden, you have the #1 guy in steals at the 3 spot, #2 at PG, and #4 at SG. That's a pretty quick defensive lineup. Iggy is only 22, and can jump out of the gym.
Yes, you give up K-Mart, but you gotta give to get. As much as I love Kevin Martin, he isnt the most dimensional player in the game. He scores, and is athletic, but that's about it. Iggy does just about everything else better than K-mart (especially rebound), except score. But with the NBA's leading scorer on your team now, why stunt Kevin's growth? Iggy already knows the score, having played with AI.
You also keep your one big man in Brad, and you have a quick defensive team, that can also run and gun pretty well.
Iverson
Michael Freakin Jordan (or Iggy)
Artest
(that's a pretty good start)
KT/SAR
Miller
Just my 4 cents
"The Kings need a spark"
"The Kings roster is too lackadaisical, we need someone new, with fire"
"He gets a clean slate here, watch how he meshes"
"This is what the fans need to get excited"
Well, just a few months after the Kings got Ron Artest, here we are again. Sure, many things are different. But I think there's a reason why Geoff has been so successful, he doesnt jump just because it looks good on paper.
I think caution is necessary, and I think its too easy to give into the hype of something new, no matter how fun and flashy it looks.
That being said....
I wanted to have fun like everyone else, so here's my idea, which works under the cap.
I can't see the Kings trading Brad (as rough a year as he's having), because he really is there ONLY big man. Yes, you could get Dalembert back, but he just signed a fat extension last summer, and I'm not sure you want to take that on with AI's contract, and Ron's impending opt out clause.
So here's what I think:
Philly trades:
Iverson
Iguodala
Sac trades:
Bibby
Martin
Williamson
Here's why:
Now all of a sudden, you have the #1 guy in steals at the 3 spot, #2 at PG, and #4 at SG. That's a pretty quick defensive lineup. Iggy is only 22, and can jump out of the gym.
Yes, you give up K-Mart, but you gotta give to get. As much as I love Kevin Martin, he isnt the most dimensional player in the game. He scores, and is athletic, but that's about it. Iggy does just about everything else better than K-mart (especially rebound), except score. But with the NBA's leading scorer on your team now, why stunt Kevin's growth? Iggy already knows the score, having played with AI.
You also keep your one big man in Brad, and you have a quick defensive team, that can also run and gun pretty well.
Iverson
Michael Freakin Jordan (or Iggy)
Artest
(that's a pretty good start)
KT/SAR
Miller
Just my 4 cents
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