All things Woods ...updated (merged)

[BMiller52]

Hey Kings113 could you please tell us all which PF/Cs are on the trade block and what type of shot we have at them? I don't want to waste your time or anything but I'm not really good at that stuff. The only guys I can think of right now are KMart1 and KG.

 

[Kings113]

Well, K-Mart is, probably could get him for Bonzi.. KG I'd say will be by the deadline. Wilcox might still be S/T'ed, Gooden is unsigned, and the Cavs could well sign Reggie Evans. We don't need Gooden though. Etan Thomas is probably still up for trade, Wiz want to go more small-ball. Last I read. Swift? I've read conflicting things on him not wanting to be in Memphis, and him accepting being back there.

Not sure about anyone else.

 

[BMiller52]

Well, K-Mart is, probably could get him for Bonzi.. KG I'd say will be by the deadline. Wilcox might still be S/T'ed, Gooden is unsigned, and the Cavs could well sign Reggie Evans. We don't need Gooden though. Etan Thomas is probably still up for trade, Wiz want to go more small-ball. Last I read. Swift? I've read conflicting things on him not wanting to be in Memphis, and him accepting being back there.

Not sure about anyone else.

So basically there's just not much out there besides Wilcox, who Petrie reportedly has interest in.

 

[TheJoker]

I'm just wondering who's more useless Woods O-Tag or Vitaly? we should have a poll.

 

[VF21]

I'm just wondering who's more useless Woods O-Tag or Vitaly? we should have a poll.

Or, here's an idea. We could actually wait until he (Woods) steps foot on the court in the Kings uniform and give him a chance to prove what he can do.

Ostertag was a one-year acquisition to try and fill in when Vlade left. Potapenko was a cost-cutting move and considering he wasn't playing at all anyway, it was pretty much understandable at the time the trade was made.

Loren Woods just might surprise people. He's had some problems but it seems as though he has never really been given much of a chance to prove himself.

We have him for one year. If he doesn't work out, next year could be a lot better - considering we have expiring contacts and perhaps some more trade pieces to work with.

If you're looking for a championship team this year, you're probably out of luck. If you're looking for a team restructuring and still remaining competitive, you're in the right place.

 

[TheJoker]

Raptor fans, have already seen him play when he got a opportunity to play alot of minutes and they still suggested he was useless, the only thing i got from them was Woods can rebound but thats about it.

there is probably a better chance Salmons steps in and contributes right away i just wish we could've done more then Woods...

 

[Kings113]

Or, here's an idea. We could actually wait until he (Woods) steps foot on the court in the Kings uniform and give him a chance to prove what he can do.

Ostertag was a one-year acquisition to try and fill in when Vlade left. Potapenko was a cost-cutting move and considering he wasn't playing at all anyway, it was pretty much understandable at the time the trade was made.

Loren Woods just might surprise people. He's had some problems but it seems as though he has never really been given much of a chance to prove himself.

We have him for one year. If he doesn't work out, next year could be a lot better - considering we have expiring contacts and perhaps some more trade pieces to work with.

If you're looking for a championship team this year, you're probably out of luck. If you're looking for a team restructuring and still remaining competitive, you're in the right place.

Tend to agree there.

I'm just wondering who's more useless Woods O-Tag or Vitaly? we should have a poll.

Joker, others and I have said similar things about Potapenko and Ostertag and Woods. But you just keep saying the same things and ignoring whats been said about Tag and Potapenko. Which was the situation with them. And not even trying to consider other possibilities for Woods.

*shrug*

Raptor fans, have already seen him play when he got a opportunity to play alot of minutes and they still suggested he was useless, the only thing i got from them was Woods can rebound but thats about it.



there is probably a better chance Salmons steps in and contributes right away i just wish we could've done more then Woods...

You can take what the Raptors fans said into account if you want. But I'm not going to ignore Woods is with a different, competitive organization and guys around him who can make him better. It's all up to Woods, he seems excited.

 

[BMiller52]

Raptor fans, have already seen him play when he got a opportunity to play alot of minutes and they still suggested he was useless, the only thing i got from them was Woods can rebound but thats about it.

there is probably a better chance Salmons steps in and contributes right away i just wish we could've done more then Woods...

Of course Salmons is going to contribute right away. He won't give you the 14/8 Bonzi did but he'll probably put up 8/3/3 without killing our offense like Hart did.

Woods will have a shot to contribute, he sounds excited and if he gets some confidence in himself I'm sure he can make a very positive contribution to our team. If you go look at his actual game logs on ESPN you'll see he's a very good shotblocker/rebounder when he gets minutes. He had a couple 4 or 5 block games. He has the potential to be a similar player to Keon. Give the man a chance.

I don't get it. We ALL want a good PF/C but you look at who's out there we could get and there aren't very many good players. The fact of the matter is we can't just bring in someone like KG/Duncan who would fix all our problems. If those opportunities had presented themself Geoff would've taken advantage of them-they didn't.

Edit:I've heard SOME Raps fans say very positive things about Woods when he got minutes, so it's just who you talk to/believe.

 

[Kings113]

Of course Salmons is going to contribute right away. He won't give you the 14/8 Bonzi did but he'll probably put up 8/3/3 without killing our offense like Hart did.

Woods will have a shot to contribute, he sounds excited and if he gets some confidence in himself I'm sure he can make a very positive contribution to our team. If you go look at his actual game logs on ESPN you'll see he's a very good shotblocker/rebounder when he gets minutes. He had a couple 4 or 5 block games. He has the potential to be a similar player to Keon. Give the man a chance.

I don't get it. We ALL want a good PF/C but you look at who's out there we could get and there aren't very many good players. The fact of the matter is we can't just bring in someone like KG/Duncan who would fix all our problems. If those opportunities had presented themself Geoff would've taken advantage of them-they didn't.

Edit:I've heard SOME Raps fans say very positive things about Woods when he got minutes, so it's just who you talk to/believe.

Indeed.

 

[chelle]

Or, here's an idea. We could actually wait until he (Woods) steps foot on the court in the Kings uniform and give him a chance to prove what he can do.

Ostertag was a one-year acquisition to try and fill in when Vlade left. Potapenko was a cost-cutting move and considering he wasn't playing at all anyway, it was pretty much understandable at the time the trade was made.

Loren Woods just might surprise people. He's had some problems but it seems as though he has never really been given much of a chance to prove himself.

We have him for one year. If he doesn't work out, next year could be a lot better - considering we have expiring contacts and perhaps some more trade pieces to work with.

If you're looking for a championship team this year, you're probably out of luck. If you're looking for a team restructuring and still remaining competitive, you're in the right place.

I could not possibly agree more! Excellent post.

 

[Merdiesel]

He hasn't had a chance to play for anyone yet, this guy could be a sleeper...

 

[Bricklayer]

Indeed.

Oh enough. Woods is like any other limited minute player -- of COURSE he looks good when he gets minutes. They ALL do. And why is that? For the simple reason that the only time they DO get minutes is if they are having a strong game. Its not minutes = strong play. Its strong play = minutes. On the three nights in four they suck, they are just pulled quickly.

As for opportunity, there is simply no way to say that he hasn't had them. In fact he's probably had as much opportunity as just about any center in the league in the last 5 years. He's never had much of anything for legitimate competition at the center postion on 3 different teams (by far the best was Rasho, but Loren could not even secure the backup mins). They all desperately needed him to step up, would have begged him to step up, and he did/could not. You can see how long the line was to get him after 5 yrs of that type of play. Presumably he makes the active roster and he'll have the occasional game where you go "there it is!", but Potapenko is actually the more established center, and that's not saying much for Loren.

 

[Arby's Roast Beef]

Oh enough. Woods is like any other limited minute player -- of COURSE he looks good when he gets minutes. They ALL do. And why is that? For the simple reason that the only time they DO get minutes is if they are having a strong game. Its not minutes = strong play. Its strong play = minutes. On the three nights in four they suck, they are just pulled quickly.

As for opportunity, there is simply no way to say that he hasn't had them. In fact he's probably had as much opportunity as just about any center in the league in the last 5 years. He's never had much of anything for legitimate competition at the center postion on 3 different teams (by far the best was Rasho, but Loren could not even secure the backup mins). They all desperately needed him to step up, would have begged him to step up, and he did/could not. You can see how long the line was to get him after 5 yrs of that type of play. Presumably he makes the active roster and he'll have the occasional game where you go "there it is!", but Potapenko is actually the more established center, and that's not saying much for Loren.

Exactly. I know we are trying to give Woods an opportunity with our apparent lack of "tough" centers, but he's received similar opportunities in Toronto as well, who also lacked a true starting centers. He's obviously had flashes, but he does so for every 12 games. Woods SEVERELY, and I do mean severely, lacks mental toughness, confidence, and perhaps some work ethic--he simply can't put his game all together. He definitely has the game to succeed, but there are many cases of centers with potential who didn't pan out as well. Tracing Woods' past career, he was given many chances: he couldn't pan out at Wake Forest, he couldn't pan out at Minny, he couldn't pan out at Miami, he couldn't pan out at Toronto of all places. I appreciate the signing, but the best I see it is that he's going to be a reserve big man who'll show some sparks here and there but ultimately lose out on his playing time due to inconsistencies. He can prove me wrong, of course, but history hasn't shown that yet.

 

[Padrino]

woods? potapenko? amundson? williams?

who cares? third and fourth string big men are invites, roster fill-outs, and garbage time benchers. they don't have any impact whatsoever. "this guy could be a sleeper"??? i'm willing to bet that the list of 12th-15th men who have succeeded in living up to their "sleeper" status is slim to none. the kings chief concerns are at the starting and backup PF spots, as well as the backup C position. until those needs are addressed, this team will be mired in mediocrity, bonzi wells or no bonzi wells. loren woods is hardly the issue. the issue is whether or not petrie is seriously attempting to fix our frontcourt problems. i'm sure he is. i'm sure he's called plenty of teams inquiring about trading for suitable big men. however, last time i checked, what the kings have that they'd be willing to part with isn't much. and what we do have that geoff would prefer not to part with is, to be frank, overrated, and wouldn't yield said suitable big man in a trade, realistically speaking. so, all that said, the kings front office needs to do itself a serious favor and start looking towards the future. stop signing guys like john salmons. invest in the youth that you already have. it comes much cheaper, and it puts you in a better position financially come next offseason. then you can give it another shot. fact is, you gotta break the bank for somebody if you wanna win in this league. the maloofs didn't wanna break the bank for bonzi wells. okay, that's fine. but they're gonna have to set aside these silly under-the-cap notions if they wanna win. fact: san antonio was waaaaay over the cap during their title run. so was LA. detroit was the exception that proves the rule. every team that wins in the modern nba is over the cap.

 

[BMiller52]

Oh enough. Woods is like any other limited minute player -- of COURSE he looks good when he gets minutes. They ALL do. And why is that? For the simple reason that the only time they DO get minutes is if they are having a strong game. Its not minutes = strong play. Its strong play = minutes. On the three nights in four they suck, they are just pulled quickly.

As for opportunity, there is simply no way to say that he hasn't had them. In fact he's probably had as much opportunity as just about any center in the league in the last 5 years. He's never had much of anything for legitimate competition at the center postion on 3 different teams (by far the best was Rasho, but Loren could not even secure the backup mins). They all desperately needed him to step up, would have begged him to step up, and he did/could not. You can see how long the line was to get him after 5 yrs of that type of play. Presumably he makes the active roster and he'll have the occasional game where you go "there it is!", but Potapenko is actually the more established center, and that's not saying much for Loren.

Honestly brick what more did you expect for 900K?

 

[nbrans]

Oh enough. Woods is like any other limited minute player -- of COURSE he looks good when he gets minutes. They ALL do. And why is that? For the simple reason that the only time they DO get minutes is if they are having a strong game. Its not minutes = strong play. Its strong play = minutes. On the three nights in four they suck, they are just pulled quickly.

As for opportunity, there is simply no way to say that he hasn't had them. In fact he's probably had as much opportunity as just about any center in the league in the last 5 years. He's never had much of anything for legitimate competition at the center postion on 3 different teams (by far the best was Rasho, but Loren could not even secure the backup mins). They all desperately needed him to step up, would have begged him to step up, and he did/could not. You can see how long the line was to get him after 5 yrs of that type of play. Presumably he makes the active roster and he'll have the occasional game where you go "there it is!", but Potapenko is actually the more established center, and that's not saying much for Loren.

There are often reasons for lack of playing time that go beyond just a player's performance, and in the case of Toronto their organization had a very strong incentive to play Araujo to try and develop him to prove they didn't blow that high draft pick (they did). Araujo did absolutely nothing to justify 75 starts in the last two years, and I don't think the fact that Woods lost time to Araujo should be held against him. Now, this doesn't completley exonerate Woods, but there's a bit more to the story.

I'm not very excited about the Woods acquisition, he seems like Plan D, but we're not paying him much so there's not much risk. It seemed like this was an offseason where Geoff's best laid plans (Bonzi, Przybilla, Wilcox) didn't work out. It's unfortunate.

 

[Kings113]

Oh enough. Woods is like any other limited minute player -- of COURSE he looks good when he gets minutes. They ALL do. And why is that? For the simple reason that the only time they DO get minutes is if they are having a strong game. Its not minutes = strong play. Its strong play = minutes. On the three nights in four they suck, they are just pulled quickly.

As for opportunity, there is simply no way to say that he hasn't had them. In fact he's probably had as much opportunity as just about any center in the league in the last 5 years. He's never had much of anything for legitimate competition at the center postion on 3 different teams (by far the best was Rasho, but Loren could not even secure the backup mins). They all desperately needed him to step up, would have begged him to step up, and he did/could not. You can see how long the line was to get him after 5 yrs of that type of play. Presumably he makes the active roster and he'll have the occasional game where you go "there it is!", but Potapenko is actually the more established center, and that's not saying much for Loren.

lol

Well Brick, I still feel the same about Woods. I'm just gonna keep an open mind about him until he shows what he does with us.

 

[TheJoker]

Kings113, what is he gonna do with us? turn into a solid player ? or turn into a all-star? come on man, i know we have to wait until we see him play but still it's not that hard to figure out what hes gonna bring to the table next year, i'm sure everyone didn't say lets wait until we see O-Tag play or Vitaly cause you already know what they bring.

 

[Kings113]

Kings113, what is he gonna do with us? turn into a solid player ? or turn into a all-star? come on man, i know we have to wait until we see him play but still it's not that hard to figure out what hes gonna bring to the table next year, i'm sure everyone didn't say lets wait until we see O-Tag play or Vitaly cause you already know what they bring.

Have I ever said that? No, I have never said he will be anything with us. I 've said I'm keeping an open mind about him, and on the outlook side, I have said I think he could be something decent with us.

I don't remember what people said about Ostertag coming into the 04-05 season, I wasn't really on Kings/basketball boards much then. He turned up to camp out of shape, and was for most of the year, thus not being used much by Rick and was in his damn dog-house.

Potapenko? Chap, you keep ignoring, or just not reading what many have already said, what the situation was with Potapenko and why we actually got him. He was to help with the financial situation, thus getting rid of Skinner's contract. Now? He's an expiring contract who isn't and likely was not going to be in significant plans with us. He's most likely traded.

 

[Rome]

Kings113, what is he gonna do with us? turn into a solid player ? or turn into a all-star? come on man, i know we have to wait until we see him play but still it's not that hard to figure out what hes gonna bring to the table next year, i'm sure everyone didn't say lets wait until we see O-Tag play or Vitaly cause you already know what they bring.

Dude if O-Tag was here and was playing under Muss i'm sure he would of been very productive defensively. Adelman never played any big who can't shoot or play offense and thats why guys like Tag and Skinner never had the chance to show what they can do. Well Skinner had the chance because Adelman was forced to play him and look what happened. He averaged about 10 ppg, 2 blocks and 8 rebounds in like 28 minutes per game. Not bad if you ask me. And it really showed too...

I'm not gonna say Woods will turn into a allstar but he can become a Diop or similar type of players if he gets consistent minutes. You just have to play them the right amount of minutes to get what you want out of these kind of guys.

 

[Rome]

Have I ever said that? No, I have never said he will be anything with us. I said I'm keeping an open mind about him ultimately, and on the outlook side, I have said I think he could be something decent with us.

I completely agree with you. Besides any center over 7'0 is a + to have on the team.

 

[TheJoker]

Have I ever said that? No, I have never said he will be anything with us. I said I'm keeping an open mind about him, and on the outlook side, I have said I think he could be something decent with us.

I don't remember what people said about Ostertag, I wasn't really on Kings/basketball boards much then. He turned up to camp out of shape, and was for most of the year, thus not being used much by Rick and was in his damn dog-house.

Potapenko? Chap, you keep ignoring what the situation was with him and why we actually got him. He was to help with the financial situation to bring us under the cap a bit, thus getting rid of Skinner's contract.

But we still got them right? Pot was our back-up C once Skinner was traded so you're telling me a Back-up C, should be held for a financial situation? and i remember when we got O-Tag alot of people expected him to have his best year in a Kings uni how did that work out? the only thing we got out of him was his speedo dance.

i WILL wait until we judge Woods however his productive avg's will not be as many of you will hope for probably.

 

[Rome]

But we still got them right? Pot was our back-up C once Skinner was traded so you're telling me a Back-up C, should be held for a financial situation? and i remember when we got O-Tag alot of people expected him to have his best year in a Kings uni how did that work out? the only thing we got out of him was his speedo dance.

i WILL wait until we judge Woods however his productive avg's will not be as many of you will hope for probably.

Don't you think Adelman being our caoch was one of the problems???

Is it just a cowincidence that O-Tag was avg like 24 minutes, 7-8 rebounds, and 1-2 blocks b4 comming to Sac. Is it just a cowincidence that Brian Skinner was putting up good numbers defensively b4 last sesaon and than got no pt after that.... Refer to my last post. Adelman hates non offensive centers.

Honestly, I could care less if Woods averages less than 10 pts but puts a good amount of effort on defense and rebounding. Which so far it shows he can.

 

[Kings113]

But we still got them right? Pot was our back-up C once Skinner was traded so you're telling me a Back-up C, should be held for a financial situation? and i remember when we got O-Tag alot of people expected him to have his best year in a Kings uni how did that work out? the only thing we got out of him was his speedo dance.

i WILL wait until we judge Woods however his productive avg's will not be as many of you will hope for probably.

Yeah, we still got them..., and yes, why we got Potapenko was mainly for some financial flexibility. Something with the luxury tax, I think. Rick didn't play Potapenko. because he didn't know the offense, and wanted to give SAR a lot of minutes. He said something like that himself during March.

How did Ostertag work out? I already said how he worked out.

You say you'll wait to judge Woods, yet you just did judge him by saying his stat averages probably won't be like many hope they'll be. I don't know what they'll be.

 

[VF21]

But we still got them right? Pot was our back-up C once Skinner was traded so you're telling me a Back-up C, should be held for a financial situation? and i remember when we got O-Tag alot of people expected him to have his best year in a Kings uni how did that work out? the only thing we got out of him was his speedo dance.

i WILL wait until we judge Woods however his productive avg's will not be as many of you will hope for probably.

If you recall, the Skinner for Potapenko and Monia trade was done on deadline day. It was done strictly for cost cutting. Skinner wasn't getting minutes anyway, so trading him to get the Kings UNDER the luxury tax was purely financial.

 

[TheJoker]

If you recall, the Skinner for Potapenko and Monia trade was done on deadline day. It was done strictly for cost cutting. Skinner wasn't getting minutes anyway, so trading him to get the Kings UNDER the luxury tax was purely financial.

It was done financially understandably, but i still thought Pot was being held back a little bit even though he's a washed up big he could've added something, there is a reason Rick was booted he does not know how to use bench players ... Remember Gerald Wallace? how many years was he held back? look at him now hes playing like a beast. i'm not saying Pot would've been the same but either way Pot was our back-up C so he had to give us something maybe with Musselman our players will get opportunitys but Woods had it in Toronto so who knows maybe a change of scenery will help.

 

[VF21]

Now you're just getting silly.

I'm not about to argue about what Rick Adelman did and didn't know. Saying he held Potapenko back is just ... well, silly.

 

[TheJoker]

Now you're just getting silly.

I'm not about to argue about what Rick Adelman did and didn't know. Saying he held Potapenko back is just ... well, silly.

He didn't give him much playing time. with Musselman who knows? Woods can maybe contribute in some way maybe but i have no expectations on Woods and Salmons for good reasons

 

[SacTownKid]

One question - has anyone here actually seen Loren play?

 

[TheJoker]

One question - has anyone here actually seen Loren play?

PLENTY of times, hes good at rebounding but thats about it when he got opportunitys he still lacked productivity.

if anyone is holding out hope for him then you're in denial if you're waiting to see him play until you judge him then it's understandable.