Admit it

[Tizzy Flip]

Well, to be fair, I used a more colorful word here to describe Tyrese, but the board's profanity filters caught it.

And not bitter at all. I was supportive of the trade for Domas. I also would have been fine had Haliburton not been traded. I was happy to call De'Aaron Fox annoyingly moody and inconsistent while he was here, and I recently came down on Sabonis for how despondent and disinterested he looked in the play-in.

I would have treated Haliburton the same if he had not been dealt. He's smarmy. He's smug. He showboats like Steph Curry despite being a couple levels below him in talent. I don't like that particular aspect of his character. He's also a bottom-tier defender and he's got a maddening disappearing/reappearing act that puts him in a category with guys like Fox and Domas who likewise disappear for stretches when you need them to show up. It's why Indiana is a 50-win team instead of a 60-win team.

Your last 2 sentences are inaccurate. They were a 50 win team since they dealt with big injuries to start the year. Nesmith was out pretty much until mid Jan when they started going on their run. Nembhard was out in November. Mathurin and Turner both were out for some stretches. Their record since start of 2025 was topped only by the Thunder. So their playoff success is more of an indicator of what they’ve done for most of the year without missing their best backcourt defenders

 

[Tizzy Flip]

We will never know, that's my point. Even if we had kept Tyrese - there's no guarantee that any, or all, of the moves after that deal would've paid off. And that is also the point others on here are trying to make - that there's no guarantee that we would've been any better at this point had we kept Tyrese. For all we know, we could've still made the same roster moves to build around Tyrese that we made to build around Fox, and Tyrese could've done the same thing as Fox by also demanding a trade.

So do you share a similar thinking if we drafted Luka instead of Bagley? That there’s no guarantee we would have been better off? We could use your logic for any bad trade and justify it. I mean the Blazers could use that logic about drafting Bowie over Jordan if that makes them feel better about it. It’s really not that complicated, Hali is easy to build around. Fox isn’t since you need to get a batman to lead him. And no batman was coming to Sac to play with Fox unless we drafted him and he fell on our lap. At which point, Fox would prolly complain about him and secretly try and get him pushed out

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

So do you share a similar thinking if we drafted Luka instead of Bagley? That there’s no guarantee we would have been better off? We could use your logic for any bad trade and justify it. I mean the Blazers could use that logic about drafting Bowie over Jordan if that makes them feel better about it. It’s really not that complicated, Hali is easy to build around. Fox isn’t since you need to get a batman to lead him. And no batman was coming to Sac to play with Fox unless we drafted him and he fell on our lap. At which point, Fox would prolly complain about him and secretly try and get him pushed out

Luka was/is a generational talent. Hali was/is not. There's nothing to even compare.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Luka was/is a generational talent. Hali was/is not. There's nothing to even compare.

So there’s now no guarantees…. unless we get a generational talent??? Any more conditions? This is the logic that I guess carries us Kings fans to cope with the reality of consistently bad decision making

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

So do you share a similar thinking if we drafted Luka instead of Bagley? That there’s no guarantee we would have been better off? We could use your logic for any bad trade and justify it. I mean the Blazers could use that logic about drafting Bowie over Jordan if that makes them feel better about it. It’s really not that complicated, Hali is easy to build around. Fox isn’t since you need to get a batman to lead him. And no batman was coming to Sac to play with Fox unless we drafted him and he fell on our lap. At which point, Fox would prolly complain about him and secretly try and get him pushed out

Also, you claim that Tyrese would've been easier to build around. I'm not going to disagree with you. But I am also not going to agree with you, because we will never know if that is true.

What I am going to say, however, is that you can't convince me that the front office wouldn't have botched a rebuild around Tyrese like they botched the one around Fox. That's my point.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Also, you claim that Tyrese would've been easier to build around. I'm not going to disagree with you. But I am also not going to agree with you, because we will never know if that is true.

What I am going to say, however, is that you can't convince me that the front office wouldn't have botched a rebuild around Tyrese like they botched the one around Fox. That's my point.

Unfortunately your logic is a big circular argument, so I’ll stop here. With your logic too, we could also assume Luke would never have been the generational talent he is since we would have botched it

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

Unfortunately your logic is a big circular argument, so I’ll stop here. With your logic too, we could also assume Luke would never have been the generational talent he is since we would have botched it

Drafting Luka would've made the rebuild a helluva lot easier than what the "rebuild" has ended up being.
Biggest mistake was the front office drafting Bagley because we had Fox. Especially with a generational talent like Luka still on the board.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Drafting Luka would've made the rebuild a helluva lot easier than what the "rebuild" has ended up being.
Biggest mistake was the front office drafting Bagley because we had Fox. Especially with a generational talent like Luka still on the board.

But how would we know that?? There’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have botched Luka’s development. See, that’s pretty easy to do I can go in circles too but I’ll stop

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

But how would we know that?? There’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have botched Luka’s development. See, that’s pretty easy to do I can go in circles too but I’ll stop

I never said that we wouldn't have botched his development. All I am saying is that it would've been a lot easier for us to build around him than around Fox. We had the perfect opportunity for a quicker rebuild with "Path A", but we/the front office chose "Path B" because we already had someone who fit the mold of "Path A" on the roster, and "Path B" would've given us our big man.

 

[QWERTYLICIOUS]

But how would we know that?? There’s no guarantee we wouldn’t have botched Luka’s development. See, that’s pretty easy to do I can go in circles too but I’ll stop

I never said that we wouldn't have botched his development. All I am saying is that it would've been a lot easier for us to build around him than around Fox. We had the perfect opportunity for a quicker rebuild with "Path A", but we/the front office chose "Path B" because we already had someone who fit the mold of "Path A" on the roster, and "Path B" would've given us our big man.

And, seeing that Luka is no longer a Mav, I am 75-80% confident that our front office would've eventually botched Luka's development, and we probably would still be looking at a rebuild today.

BUT, having Luka on this team would've been a helluva lot more fun and exciting. Especially when compared to Bagley. I could also make a strong argument when compared to Fox.

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

Well having lived in the midwest, there’s no way he preferred Indianapolis...

First of All™, I have also lived in the Midwest, and I would absolutely consider Indianapolis over Sacramento, so I guess we're playing dueling anecdotes. But that's neither here nor there because, Second of All, this thesis also presupposes that any objection that Siakam may or may not have had with playing for the Kings had to do with the location, rather than the organization. Not all small markets are created equal.

 

[King Baller]

Who is to say how Luka or Haliburton would have developed as a King. By coincidence Luka and Hali were developed by long time Coach Rick Carlisle. Carlisle is a Pro's Pro. he did a masterful job with each young player.
Who knows maybe Sacto would see Luka as a Forward ala Tyreke Evans. Remeber when Coach Joerger had Fox watch the Vets play from the bench?

Conversely Carlisle told each Luka and Hali 'You Are The Man" and gave them the ball.

Indy was and is a better team. Has had GM Pritchard for years, the Owners are solid. As sad as it is to admit, Indy has a better Organization than the Kings. hey but it is a goal to be similar.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Who is to say how Luka or Haliburton would have developed as a King. By coincidence Luka and Hali were developed by long time Coach Rick Carlisle. Carlisle is a Pro's Pro. he did a masterful job with each young player.
Who knows maybe Sacto would see Luka as a Forward ala Tyreke Evans. Remeber when Coach Joerger had Fox watch the Vets play from the bench?

Conversely Carlisle told each Luka and Hali 'You Are The Man" and gave them the ball.

Indy was and is a better team. Has had GM Pritchard for years, the Owners are solid. As sad as it is to admit, Indy has a better Organization than the Kings. hey but it is a goal to be similar.

You know who Geoff Petrie suggested that Ranadive and his people go see for a workout in 2013? Giannis Antetokounmpo

Of course they ignored that advice and didn't go see him,.....but I guess some would ask, "who is to say that Giannis would have developed with the kings". Instead they drafted Ben McLemore

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

,,, Indy was and is a better team. Has had GM Pritchard for years, the Owners are solid. As sad as it is to admit, Indy has a better Organization than the Kings. hey but it is a goal to be similar.

This is pretty much what I was getting at. The implication by some appears to be that Siakam went to Indiana solely to play with Haliburton, as if he would have been willing to play with Haliburton literally anywhere. We don't know that, and have no reason whatsoever to believe that.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

You know who Geoff Petrie suggested that Ranadive and his people go see for a workout in 2013? Giannis Antetokounmpo

Of course they ignored that advice and didn't go see him,.....but I guess some would ask, "who is to say that Giannis would have developed with the kings". Instead they drafted Ben McLemore

Of all the missteps of the Ranadive administration, this was probably the worst. You have an outgoing Executive-Of-The-Year-level guy who gives a complete neophyte front office a big freaking wink and hint about what to do, and he just straight ignored it because, you know, he coached his daughter's junior high team once and implemented cherry-picking and it worked, or whatever the dumb thinking was. I'm not saying that Ranadive is even an above-average owner now, but at least he finally seems to understand that he's not the smartest basketball mind in the room some of the time.

Hey, at least the Kings are in Sacramento. Because we got Maloofed, there was a cost to the Kings staying in Sac. It is what it is and it's unlikely to change. We can hope for slow improvement. Better than no team at all.

 

[Tizzy Flip]

This is pretty much what I was getting at. The implication by some appears to be that Siakam went to Indiana solely to play with Haliburton, as if he would have been willing to play with Haliburton literally anywhere. We don't know that, and have no reason whatsoever to believe that.

No one is saying he solely went to Indy to play for Hali. But it was a huge reason. Who said so? Quinn Buckner, who works for the Pacers, and asked Siakam directly. Who proceeded to say he wanted to play with guys who elevated each other up. Interesting he then chose a “lowly” team with Hali over any other option

 

[Joshyjosh31]

And, seeing that Luka is no longer a Mav, I am 75-80% confident that our front office would've eventually botched Luka's development, and we probably would still be looking at a rebuild today.

BUT, having Luka on this team would've been a helluva lot more fun and exciting. Especially when compared to Bagley. I could also make a strong argument when compared to Fox.

Luka was “developing” no matter what the front office did Luka

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

No one is saying he solely went to Indy to play for Hali. But it was a huge reason. Who said so? Quinn Buckner, who works for the Pacers, and asked Siakam directly. Who proceeded to say he wanted to play with guys who elevated each other up. Interesting he then chose a “lowly” team with Hali over any other option

Nobody is disputing whether Siakam wanted to play with Haliburton (at least I'm not). What is in dispute is whether or not Siakam would have been willing to play with Haliburton anywhere, Sacramento specifically. It is my contention that he would not.

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

Of all the missteps of the Ranadive administration, this was probably the worst. You have an outgoing Executive-Of-The-Year-level guy who gives a complete neophyte front office a big freaking wink and hint about what to do, and he just straight ignored it because, you know, he coached his daughter's junior high team once and implemented cherry-picking and it worked, or whatever the dumb thinking was. I'm not saying that Ranadive is even an above-average owner now, but at least he finally seems to understand that he's not the smartest basketball mind in the room some of the time.

Hey, at least the Kings are in Sacramento. Because we got Maloofed, there was a cost to the Kings staying in Sac. It is what it is and it's unlikely to change. We can hope for slow improvement. Better than no team at all.

The problem is that he still actively makes all big decisions, even if he's admitted to himself that he's not the smartest guy in the office.

Whether the level of his involvement is normal or not for an owner, this organization is behind the 8 ball with him making the calls

 

[NewArena]

Right now, the pacers are winning the trade by a mile but it would be very very lazy to just pretend it was some awful decision at the time for reasons people said it would be. In this Western conference, does anyone really think Hali was about to lead us to the playoffs, let alone the finals?? If Vivek is every bit as stupid as many fans claim to be, it was never gonna happen anyway so it's kind of funny to see the pain and anguish so many people are expressing. I didn't see anyone "admitting" anything when we'd clearly smoked the Pacers two seasons ago with this trade. Sometimes you need luck to get as far as Indiana has, and to be completely honest with you - they didn't impress me at ALL until they beat that healthy Knicks team. Before that, i don't think they played a single playoff series (in the Hali era) against a team without one or two of their main stars missing due to injury. This isn't "cope" but an absolute fact. Unfortunately for us, we don't play in that lesser conference and we drew the defending champs in round 1 with a true generational talent to try and knock out. Had Draymond and Looney/Klay been missing from that series, we probably beat em in 5 games - completely smoke the Lakers and be in the WCF that season.

Don't get me wrong btw, it absolutely hurts to see Hali get this far but not because i think he's some generational talent that we so desperately need. I'm more so annoyed at people that think he's soooo much greater and more valuable than Sabonis and using this season - which was one of the most strange seasons the Kings have ever had with things going haywire left and right - as a way to scream out "i told you so"!! The FOX situation is the main reason we're in this current mess and i'm more hurt over that than anything.

EDIT: i didn't see the initial post and assumed this was about Hali and Indi being in the finals because i had the OP on my ignore list lol now i remember why i did that in the first place.

 

[NewArena]

Luka was “developing” no matter what the front office did Luka

In some weird way, i still think we dodged some bullets there but it did rob us of perhaps a longer and more fun run, akin to the first beam team year. Who knows? Maybe i'm crazy, but, i still think it's possible for us to have a very good team next season with pieces that not only fit, but guys that wanna be here and continue to buy in to coach DC. If anything, this Pacer run gives me hope. There is nothing spectacular about their roster to me. I think they just really love playing together and fit beautifully - that's their magic. Though i do think OKC is going to introduce them to a reality they ain't quite familiar with just yet lol good luck

 

[Tizzy Flip]

Sure! I'll admit whatever you want. Right now, the pacers are winning the trade by a mile but it would be very very lazy to just pretend it was some awful decision at the time for reasons people said it would be. In this Western conference, does anyone really think Hali was about to lead us to the playoffs, let alone the finals?? If Vivek is every bit as stupid as many fans claim to be, it was never gonna happen anyway so it's kind of funny to see the pain and anguish so many people are expressing. I didn't see anyone "admitting" anything when we'd clearly smoked the Pacers two seasons ago with this trade. Sometimes you need luck to get as far as Indiana has, and to be completely honest with you - they didn't impress me at ALL until they beat that healthy Knicks team. Before that, i don't think they played a single playoff series (in the Hali era) against a team without one or two of their main stars missing due to injury. This isn't "cope" but an absolute fact. Unfortunately for us, we don't play in that lesser conference and we drew the defending champs in round 1 with a true generational talent to try and knock out. Had Draymond and Looney/Klay been missing from that series, we probably beat em in 5 games - completely smoke the Lakers and be in the WCF that season.

Don't get me wrong btw, it absolutely hurts to see Hali get this far but not because i think he's some generational talent that we so desperately need. I'm more so annoyed at people that think he's soooo much greater and more valuable than Sabonis and using this season - which was one of the most strange seasons the Kings have ever had with things going haywire left and right - as a way to scream out "i told you so"!! The FOX situation is the main reason we're in this current mess and i'm more hurt over that than anything.

Nah, this is some serious copium. To fans visiting from other boards, this is Exhibit A of rational irrationality. I won’t tell people how to fan and make themselves feel better about the unfortunate reality. I’m just going to be hopeful Perry doesn't perpetuate our trait of fumbling all the good situations we’re given. And doesn’t buy into the myth that since we’re in the western conference we unlikely to succeed anyway

 

[Tizzy Flip]

In some weird way, i still think we dodged some bullets there but it did rob us of perhaps a longer and more fun run, akin to the first beam team year. Who knows? Maybe i'm crazy, but, i still think it's possible for us to have a very good team next season with pieces that not only fit, but guys that wanna be here and continue to buy in to coach DC. If anything, this Pacer run gives me hope. There is nothing spectacular about their roster to me. I think they just really love playing together and fit beautifully - that's their magic. Though i do think OKC is going to introduce them to a reality they ain't quite familiar with just yet lol good luck

These are such odd takes. Nothing spectacular? Well I guess all we need is a kumbaya in the offseason so everyone learns to love playing with each other, and somehow make the roster all magically fit. You know, beating the Knicks and Cavs is as simple as sprinkling some cultural pixie dust. But whatever, they’ll lose to the Thunder, so their run is nothing special

 

[King Baller]

Of all the missteps of the Ranadive administration, this was probably the worst. You have an outgoing Executive-Of-The-Year-level guy who gives a complete neophyte front office a big freaking wink and hint about what to do, and he just straight ignored it because, you know, he coached his daughter's junior high team once and implemented cherry-picking and it worked, or whatever the dumb thinking was. I'm not saying that Ranadive is even an above-average owner now, but at least he finally seems to understand that he's not the smartest basketball mind in the room some of the time.

Hey, at least the Kings are in Sacramento. Because we got Maloofed, there was a cost to the Kings staying in Sac. It is what it is and it's unlikely to change. We can hope for slow improvement. Better than no team at all.

Geoff referred to Vivek as a "Dismissive little chap" I believe after they met.

This is not to take anything away from Vivek for saving the Sacramento Kings. He did it and said they are OUR Kings.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

In some weird way, i still think we dodged some bullets there but it did rob us of perhaps a longer and more fun run, akin to the first beam team year. Who knows? Maybe i'm crazy, but, i still think it's possible for us to have a very good team next season with pieces that not only fit, but guys that wanna be here and continue to buy in to coach DC. If anything, this Pacer run gives me hope. There is nothing spectacular about their roster to me. I think they just really love playing together and fit beautifully - that's their magic. Though i do think OKC is going to introduce them to a reality they ain't quite familiar with just yet lol good luck

OKC has humbled every team besides denver who has one of the greatest players of all time. Even if the pacers get swept it was a great season for them and they got a great young PG who wanted to play his whole career on Sacramento

I really hate Luka right now because of his complaining and carelessness about defense and being hand-shipped to the lakers. However I’d rather be a legit contender with him and deal with that than be 10 seed champs for the next half decade. We didn’t site a bullet by not drafting a top 3 player in the league we also would’ve been able to trade fox for wing players if they didn’t fit.

 

[NewArena]

Geoff referred to Vivek as a "Dismissive little chap" I believe after they met.

This is not to take anything away from Vivek for saving the Sacramento Kings. He did it and said they are OUR Kings.

As much as i love Geoff and admire his work before the Magoofs got in their own way, i think it's very easy for a lot of these guys to say what they suggested and all of these grand ideas + plans they had when they were on the way out the door. As soon as Monte left it was the same thing and i just don't fully buy it, especially with him knowing Vivek is unlikely to come out and refute any statements. Multiple things can be true at the same time.

 

[NewArena]

If this team moved to Seattle, they wouldn't be the Kings anymore since Seattle was able to keep the Sonics/Supersonics name and colors in anticipation of a future NBA return. Do you think the Kings not existing at all is a better outcome than the Kings continuing to exist but struggling to put a winning team on the court in perpetuity? Evidently so, but a counter-argument could be made that having a bad team to watch is better than having no team. That's the side of the argument I would put myself on anyway.

I don't know why today of all days triggered "enough is enough" for you since the Kings' chances of moving up in the draft this year could have been rounded down to 0. I guess the inevitably of draft failure combined with star players now dictating which teams they want to play for (Fox, for example) does add up to a hopeless situation if you want to connect the dots that way. Our star player maneuvering his way onto a team that then won the #2 pick in the lottery just a few months later does feel particularly insulting. Losing our pick to Atlanta because Dallas out-tanked us by 1 game and then seeing Dallas move up from a 2-way tie with Chicago for the 11/12 seeds into the first overall pick also stings.

So yeah, I guess I do understand your frustration. Everything about the draft lottery has been bad for Sacramento for decades. But we did have the Beam Team two years ago. As long as the Kings still play in Sacramento the potential for joy to return is always there, however remote.

This right here. We have been through WAY worse and things can change in a matter of months. Look at the team we had just months before Beam Team number 1 (with Hali included btw) lol they were God awful

 

[King Baller]

As much as i love Geoff and admire his work before the Magoofs got in their own way, i think it's very easy for a lot of these guys to say what they suggested and all of these grand ideas + plans they had when they were on the way out the door. As soon as Monte left it was the same thing and i just don't fully buy it, especially with him knowing Vivek is unlikely to come out and refute any statements. Multiple things can be true at the same time.

You paint with a broad brush when you state “a lot of these guys.”

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

As much as i love Geoff and admire his work before the Magoofs got in their own way, i think it's very easy for a lot of these guys to say what they suggested and all of these grand ideas + plans they had when they were on the way out the door. As soon as Monte left it was the same thing and i just don't fully buy it, especially with him knowing Vivek is unlikely to come out and refute any statements. Multiple things can be true at the same time.

Petrie is not the type of guy to make up stories and disparage someone he had just met, out of thin air. A lot of what has happened since then, tracks with his opinion of that brief encounter