About that defense...

[HereWeBoogie]

I know a lot of people want to pair Cousins with a Shot blocking Center and move Cuz to PF. i don't like that at all. Cuz should stay at Center. i think the ideal player that we could pair with Cousins would be Serge Ibaka. a rim protecting PF who can hit the open jumper to space the floor for Cousins on offense. if we can find a guy like that we need to get him

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

A shot blocking power forward, who can also hit an open jumper? Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of those lying around. Why, there's Ibaka, and Biyombo, and... and... Hang on, give me a minute...

Fact is, if we want a shot blocker, we may have to get a center. But, there's two types of shot-blocking centers: there's the rangy, skinny guys with lateral quickness (e.g., Davis, Noah, Jordan), and there's the lumbering, space-filler types (e.g., Hibbert, Bogut). If we get the former instead of the latter, we could always just play them at PF.

EDIT - I guess there's a third type, if you factor in Howard, but that's star-level, and we don't need that.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

A shot blocking power forward, who can also hit an open jumper? Yeah, I'm sure there are plenty of those lying around. Why, there's Ibaka, and Biyombo, and... and... Hang on, give me a minute...

Fact is, if we want a shot blocker, we may have to get a center. But, there's two types of shot-blocking centers: there's the rangy, skinny guys with lateral quickness (e.g., Davis, Noah, Jordan), and there's the lumbering, space-filler types (e.g., Hibbert, Bogut). If we get the former instead of the latter, we could always just play them at PF.

Biyombo! the guy we drafted over Jimmer

But yea i totally agree with you about the mobile/quick shot blocking Centers. i kind of consider Ibaka in that same category

 

[Padrino]

I've seen absolutely no one say we don't need a rim protector. This has been said pretty much every season and every day here since cousins joined the team (I imagine, haven't been here that long). That's not a knock on the post or the poster, there's just nothing to say. He's right. We've known that for years.

That, however, does not excuse the rest of the team by any means. It's both problems. No rim protector, and spectacularly bad guard defense, and as he says, the only way to fix that is get better players. That starts with the guards but doesn't end there.

Half this board has already plugged in Vonleh or Cauley-Stein on this team in their head. I know I have.

indeed. there have been only a rare few who have contested the kings' need for rim protection across the last several seasons. one needn't look up at the sky and proclaim, "it's blue!!" we all know that the kings require a much more consistent, much more effective defensive presence inside the paint alongside demarcus cousins. rim protectors can be hard to come by, though, and they also don't come cheap...

in the meantime, isaiah thomas' presence in the starting lineup is a much newer, much fresher development, and it is certainly worthy of debate, given just how atrocious he has been on the defensive side of the ball. though this team will eventually have to "solve for x" regarding a rim protecting frontcourt partner to pair with DMC, why would anyone argue against the notion of making cousins' life easier by acquiring a starting-caliber PG with defensive acumen enough to occasionally deny dribble penetration, while also making room for isaiah thomas to return to a sixth man role for which he is perfectly suited? it's mystifying to me...

 

[VF21]

...why would anyone argue against the notion of making cousins' life easier by acquiring a starting-caliber PG with defensive acumen enough to occasionally deny dribble penetration, while also making room for isaiah thomas to return to a sixth man role for which he is perfectly suited? it's mystifying to me...

We're Kings fans. If things start making too much sense we get confused?

 

[Padrino]

We're Kings fans. If things start making too much sense we get confused?

haha, indeed!! sometimes i forget these things...

 

[Spike]

Bees on the what now?

 

[JSin]

I would be curious to see the defensive numbers since the Gay addition. I know Toronto's defense has benefited greatly from the trade...

 

[Gilles]

Kings have way too much scorers. After Gay arrival they have one more, and now three guys are monopolizing shots. This puts everyone else out of their comfort zone, so they have a lot on their minds. I believe Kings were a winning team last year, when they had only 3 of Tyreke, IT, MT, Salmons and Outlaw play major minutes. And not just because offense ran more smoothly. They felt involved on offense, and gave defensive effort in return. Kings need more players, who are not affected by not getting touches. They had one in Mbah a Moute, and he got traded. I feel Williams' defense effort declined since moving to the bench as well.

 

[Bricklayer]

I would be curious to see the defensive numbers since the Gay addition. I know Toronto's defense has benefited greatly from the trade...

The numbers aren't pretty, but given the addition of two new starters, what I strongly suspect is a faster pace under the IT regime, and a weakened bench, its hard to pin it on any one source.

There is a school of thought that seems eager to pin Gay as a problem, while ignoring the fact he was a part of a very good defensive system in Memphis. Quite clearly you can be a good defensive team with Rudy Gay on your team. We know because again, all this focus on the past 6 months in Toronto is moronic. Since when did anyone care about what the Raptors do or not do with their personnel as some sort of measuring stick? Chris Bosh was considered a core part of terrible defensive tams in Toronto, then boom, he hits Miami and al of a sudden is on one of the best defenses in the NBA. Its situation situation and situation.

The problems with DRTG can't be overstated when comparing players on different teams, but when comparing players on the same team many of the complaints are lesser. And basically here is what you have (lower is better):

2009-10
Team DRTG: 109.9
Rudy DRTG: 110

2010-11
Team DRTG: 105.1
Rudy DRTG: 105

2011-12
Team DRTG: 101.8
Rudy DRTG: 102

2012-13 Memphis
Team DRTG: 100.3
Rudy DRTG: 101

2012-13 Toronto
Team DRTG: 107.5
Rudy DRTG: 105

2013-14 Toronto
Team DRTG: 103.4
Rudy DRTG: 100

2013-14 Sacramento
Team DRTG: 109.3
Rudy DRTG: 109


Now whatever the problems with DRTG, and this may be the first time I have ever used that acronym so many times in a single post except to disparage it, long term results, intra-team results like those, and consistent results seem to suggest this: if you build it he will D. He's not an outlier. He doesn't make you good defensively. But he doesn't hurt you defensively either. On a good defensive team he grades out about average for the team. On a bad defensive team he does the same. He's a team defender, or scheme defender. He takes care of his without ever being a stopper or a sieve.

 

[Uncia03]

Now whatever the problems with DRTG, and this may be the first time I have ever used that acronym so many times in a single post except to disparage it, long term results, intra-team results like those, and consistent results seem to suggest this: if you build it he will D. He's not an outlier. He doesn't make you good defensively. But he doesn't hurt you defensively either. On a good defensive team he grades out about average for the team. On a bad defensive team he does the same. He's a team defender, or scheme defender. He takes care of his without ever being a stopper or a sieve.

I think this is important and so far has played out with his play thus far with the Kings.
It's clear that he isn't some defensive wizard, but at the same time he hasn't been a defensive liability and has actually shown to be above average in defending...when looking at the rest of the staring line-up.
He did a good job on LeBron until LBJ went nuts with those OT 3pt shots.
When playing the Spurs Leonard didn't have a good scoring game.
He held Chandler Parsons in check.
Even in this last game where he was on Evan Turner for his time, he put up more points against Turner than Turner scored on him.

I think that as Malone works on the team defense, Rudy's defense will improve as well, which is pretty consistent with what Brick's historical DRTG has shown.

This is really important because it means he can legitimately become our #2 scorer due to the fact that he may actually be a net-positive on the defensive side. Perhaps not a huge net-positive, but enough so that he doesn't submarine the whole line-up.

 

[CruzDude]

Kings have way too much scorers. After Gay arrival they have one more, and now three guys are monopolizing shots. This puts everyone else out of their comfort zone, so they have a lot on their minds. I believe Kings were a winning team last year, when they had only 3 of Tyreke, IT, MT, Salmons and Outlaw play major minutes. And not just because offense ran more smoothly. They felt involved on offense, and gave defensive effort in return. Kings need more players, who are not affected by not getting touches. They had one in Mbah a Moute, and he got traded. I feel Williams' defense effort declined since moving to the bench as well.

You can't be serious. I'll assume not.

 

[Chubbs]

No, all of the blame is not on Isaiah. But he is a major liability on the defensive end and it's tough to deny that. Our front office knows this. To think they're not working towards a solution would be foolish.

He just might be talking about a certain guard who plays the most minutes of any of them.

“We have to make sure the Houstons, the Miamis, the games where we defend at a high level, that can’t be once in a blue moon,” Malone said. “It has to be more of a constant, and it starts with our ability to contain the basketball. We all see it every night, but (Thursday against Philadelphia) we had three guys getting wherever they wanted to go all night.
“So guys have to take a lot more pride in their individual defense, contain the basketball, keep it out of the paint and make teams try to beat us with contested jump shots. We’ve been hammering that home and we’ll continue to hammer that home because that’s the only way we’re going to win, if we defend at a much higher level.”
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/01/03/6045324/kings-coach-stresses-individual.html#storylink=cpy

 

[The_Jamal]

He just might be talking about a certain guard who plays the most minutes of any of them.

“We have to make sure the Houstons, the Miamis, the games where we defend at a high level, that can’t be once in a blue moon,” Malone said. “It has to be more of a constant, and it starts with our ability to contain the basketball. We all see it every night, but (Thursday against Philadelphia) we had three guys getting wherever they wanted to go all night.
“So guys have to take a lot more pride in their individual defense, contain the basketball, keep it out of the paint and make teams try to beat us with contested jump shots. We’ve been hammering that home and we’ll continue to hammer that home because that’s the only way we’re going to win, if we defend at a much higher level.”
Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2014/01/03/6045324/kings-coach-stresses-individual.html#storylink=cpy

Weird. Sounds like he's talking about all our perimeter defenders and not "just a certain guard who plays the most minutes of any of them"

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Weird. Sounds like he's talking about all our perimeter defenders and not "just a certain guard who plays the most minutes of any of them"

exactly. he also said something about staying in front of the ball and not just relying on help defense on every play. also sounded like it was directed at the same guy

 

[Chubbs]

Weird. Sounds like he's talking about all our perimeter defenders and not "just a certain guard who plays the most minutes of any of them"

I can always count on you. . I like throwing that bait out there, catches ya every time.

But seriously, it starts with the guards, and particularly the one guarding the PG. By no means is anyone (including me or the coach) excusing Ben, but, the veteran should be better than he is. So should Rudy. They all should be better.

However, the guy who is about to expect starter money better start playing both sides of the court and have some pride and show he's worth it. Cause right now he gives back more than he gets. Hopefully the message is received. This is not the first message sent, btw.

 

[Bricklayer]

ahem

 

[Kingster]

He takes care of his without ever being a stopper or a sieve.

Sounds like just about everyone else on this team. Gay is not much of a one on one defender.

 

[Bricklayer]

Sounds like just about everyone else on this team. Gay is not much of a one on one defender.

Not so much. Our problem is that our very best defenders are shrugs. But we've got plenty that are less than that even.

 

[Bosnian Diehard]

Marcus Smart is someone I'd like if we had a pick in the 4-6 range. Good point guard with very good defense.

 

[Uncia03]

Marcus Smart is someone I'd like if we had a pick in the 4-6 range. Good point guard with very good defense.

Not really a fan of Smart. I think he'd try to be far too much of a scorer and he doesn't have as instinctual passing as I'd like.
Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sold that he'll be a PG, and I definitely don't know if he'll mesh with this team.
I still think our best bet for a PG would be to get a proven PG via trade.

The only 1st round PG I'd want would be Exum, and I'd love to pick up a mid-to-late 2nd round pick and get my hands on Aaron Craft. But if Ray really is in our long-term plans than I don't see us trying to pick up Craft.
If either Exum or Embiid were available in the 4-6 range I'd take one of them. If both are gone along with Parker and Wiggins, then I'd see if I could trade down a few spots and then take either Cauley-Stein or Vonleh while maybe picking up another pick somewhere.

 

[The_Jamal]

Not really a fan of Smart. I think he'd try to be far too much of a scorer and he doesn't have as instinctual passing as I'd like.
Don't get me wrong, I think he'll be a good player, but I'm not sold that he'll be a PG, and I definitely don't know if he'll mesh with this team.
I still think our best bet for a PG would be to get a proven PG via trade.

The only 1st round PG I'd want would be Exum, and I'd love to pick up a mid-to-late 2nd round pick and get my hands on Aaron Craft. But if Ray really is in our long-term plans than I don't see us trying to pick up Craft.
If either Exum or Embiid were available in the 4-6 range I'd take one of them. If both are gone along with Parker and Wiggins, then I'd see if I could trade down a few spots and then take either Cauley-Stein or Vonleh while maybe picking up another pick somewhere.

Who would you be satisfied with, if you had your pick on anyone in the NBA sans Cp3? (cause he fits anywhere) Don't worry about your choices being realistic. I'm just curious what your ideal PG list for us would look like.

 

[Uncia03]

Who would you be satisfied with, if you had your pick on anyone in the NBA sans Cp3? (cause he fits anywhere)

I'll just list some players who possibly could be obtained...even if remotely.

1.) Rondo (He would be the best fit, period. Could be available and I'd be talking with Boston to see if there was any way to swing a deal. I'm personally hopeful. We'll see)
2.) Lowry (Could be available via trade or free agency if we somehow cleared some cap room. Toronto might have wanted too much in the last trade, but we could be more willing partners now)
3.) Jeff Teague (If the Hawks decide to blow it up and we have anything that they might want)
4.) Dragic (Don't think he'd be a huge upgrade but I think he'd help balance the team more. With the Suns saying they'll do anything to keep Bledsoe he is probably available now)
5.) Chalmers (I have no problems with him playing the same sort of game with Cousins and Gay as he has down with James and Wade. Heat only do this if they really like Cole. I don't think he'll be made available)
6.) Rubio (heh, I heard a rumor that he might be available though I sort of doubt that. His shooting is horrible, but he'd make Cousins and Gay's life so much easier and he's better on D)