About that defense...

[Bricklayer]

Ran a little search for the sake of the grades, it was amusing and well, it would be disturbing were I a fan of any serious basketball franchise:

-- The Kings allowed the Sixers to score 113 points last night.

-- that is the 7th time we have allowed teams to score 113pts or more this season.

-- all 7 times we have allowed an opponent to score 113pts or more have come since Dec. 1. We have played 17 games over that span, meaning that 7 of 17, or roughly 41% of the time we are allowing teams to score 113pts or more on us.

-- we are now not surprisingly 0-7 in games where we let the opponent score 113pts or more. Meaning that in roughly 41% of the games in the last month we have allowed ourselves almost no chance to win at all.

-- all time in Sacto era history we are 80-508 when we let opponents score 113pts or more.


Hey, I've got a wild and wacky thought -- how bout we don't let teams score 113pts or more on us anymore?

P.S. we are 4-6 when holding teams to under 100pts/gm. 0-7 when allowing teams to score 113pts a game. I sense a trend.

 

[deekay2o9]

I bet the majority of those 80 wins with 114 points allowed were from 2000-2005 era.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

Kings fans are some of the most knowledgeable in the game, and I do believe we can all agree on one thing that contributes greatly to our poor defense.

Isaiah Thomas.

Great guy. Hustles. Plays hard. Can score the ball. But he is also 5'9. We can all agree that on most nights, the opposing team's PG's eyes just light up when they see us. How many guards have torched us this season?

My point is that Thomas is a massive liability on defense. No matter how great of a scorer he is, it's just impossible to make up for his lack of height. Not to mention his selfish style of play, don't be fooled by his high assist count lately. We've got DMC and Rudy Gay to score. IT can be a great asset off the bench, but at this point it would not be a bad idea to trade him while his value is high.

 

[Entity]

all thats good research and all but the real elephant in the room is what was Rudy Gays TS% last night? thats the question

 

[Spike]

all thats good research and all but the real elephant in the room is what was Rudy Gays TS% last night? thats the question

Apparently last night it was a paltry .628.

Since this thread IS about defense - note the DRtg from our starters last night:

 

[Chubbs]

Them be fighting words MissingThoseAdelmanDays. Though shall not speak of the obvious when talking of he who will not be named. You're new here, you'll see.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

This board has a lot of love for Isaiah. Nothing wrong with that, as we should support anyone who plays in purple n' black.

 

[Spike]

whoosh.

 

[FaStRmAn]

Kings fans are some of the most knowledgeable in the game, and I do believe we can all agree on one thing that contributes greatly to our poor defense.

Isaiah Thomas.

Great guy. Hustles. Plays hard. Can score the ball. But he is also 5'9. We can all agree that on most nights, the opposing team's PG's eyes just light up when they see us. How many guards have torched us this season?

My point is that Thomas is a massive liability on defense. No matter how great of a scorer he is, it's just impossible to make up for his lack of height. Not to mention his selfish style of play, don't be fooled by his high assist count lately. We've got DMC and Rudy Gay to score. IT can be a great asset off the bench, but at this point it would not be a bad idea to trade him while his value is high.

Problem is ALL our Guards are a Massive Liability on defense. Thorton has never been a good defender, Jimmer is totally lost. And McLemore is a rookie getting seasoned (also Baked and Roasted). The Kings are not done trading. They are starting their future back up PG. They are struggling at SG with a rook and a player who dont seem to wanna play (Thorton). They still dont have a backup center and the PF position is mediocre at best. I'm sure we will see changes before the trade deadline.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

Problem is ALL our Guards are a Massive Liability on defense. Thorton has never been a good defender, Jimmer is totally lost. And McLemore is a rookie getting seasoned (also Baked and Roasted). The Kings are not done trading. They are starting their future back up PG. They are struggling at SG with a rook and a player who dont seem to wanna play (Thorton). They still dont have a backup center and the PF position is mediocre at best. I'm sure we will see changes before the trade deadline.

I completely agree with all of your very valid points. As much as Isaiah is a total defensive liability, so is every other guard on this roster. At the end of the day, unless we somehow acquire LeBron, change does not happen overnight. Trades will be made. This roster will not be our Sacramento Kings for much longer.

 

[pshn80]

Kings fans are some of the most knowledgeable in the game, and I do believe we can all agree on one thing that contributes greatly to our poor defense.

Isaiah Thomas.

Great guy. Hustles. Plays hard. Can score the ball. But he is also 5'9. We can all agree that on most nights, the opposing team's PG's eyes just light up when they see us. How many guards have torched us this season?

My point is that Thomas is a massive liability on defense. No matter how great of a scorer he is, it's just impossible to make up for his lack of height. Not to mention his selfish style of play, don't be fooled by his high assist count lately. We've got DMC and Rudy Gay to score. IT can be a great asset off the bench, but at this point it would not be a bad idea to trade him while his value is high.

Yeah, turner sure scored a lot of drives to the basket on IT. Oh, and all the other players on the floor for the Kings were sure lousy too. I'd say it was an extremely bad game defensively for the whole team.

 

[CruzDude]

Their body language last night was they were tired and going thru the motions. None of that aggressive defense we saw in 4 of the last 6 games. Did the Rocket win take too much out of them? Or did they think their press clippings would carry them through a mediocre eastern team that ended up eating their lunch? Hopefully a blip in their progress. Lets see next game.

 

[ppine]

Anyone that believes that the main thing wrong with the Kings' sieve defense is Isaiah Thomas is a fool.

I believe Malone declined to be interviewed after the game because he was embarrassed by his "team defense" or lack of it.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

Yeah, turner sure scored a lot of drives to the basket on IT. Oh, and all the other players on the floor for the Kings were sure lousy too. I'd say it was an extremely bad game defensively for the whole team.

Definitely. Disappointing, to say the least. We see our team go on a 3-game stretch against three quality teams and be competitive, only to come home and give up a million points to Philadelphia.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

No, all of the blame is not on Isaiah. But he is a major liability on the defensive end and it's tough to deny that. Our front office knows this. To think they're not working towards a solution would be foolish.

 

[PurpleHaze]

Our backcourt is a horrible mess on defense. We can't stop quick guards, can't adequately guard 3pt line, with Kings PGs/SGs who are either too short, too slow, too inconsistent or too inexperienced. Something has to change or this team won't even top last years miserable 28 Ws. Maybe calculated risk switch over to Rudy Gay at SG, inserting DWill in his place at SF. Maybe more zone D with more traps, presses - which seem non-existent pressure by so-called athletic Kings. Maybe complete overhaul of philosophy from one of "Kings want to run and score," to "Kings need to slow it way down and grind it out EC-like or Memphis Grizz style from the past" - since all this amazing athleticism isn't succeeding. Just slow it way down, play half court burn shot clock keeping opponents mandatory under 100, around 95 or so, constantly feeding Big Cuz with Rudy as facilitator/second option for that two pronged best shot to win attack. Only other option is to outscore opponents in lots of wild 120-115 type games which we probably don't have overall firepower to do pull off - with such messed up backcourt plus weak, no depth bench.

 

[Padrino]

someday kings fans are going to recognize that you often have to sacrifice offensive production to become a truly competitive defensive team. the miami heat are one of the lone exceptions in that they're an absolutely elite presence on both sides of the ball, but when you are home to lebron james, who is unequivocally the greatest player of his generation, you get to be the lone exception...

then there's a team like the indiana pacers, who score 98 ppg. that's good for 20th in the entire league. yet they only allow 89 ppg. that's good for 1st in the entire nba. it's also good for best record in the entire nba. granted, they play in an abysmally weak conference, but i don't think anybody is holding that against their flat-out dominance. they're a fantastic team, plain and simple. they have a budding superstar in paul george, a defensive anchor in roy hibbert, and role players who fully commit to the defensive side of the ball...

if you score a lotta points, there's no guarantee that the playoffs await. and if you score a lotta points without ever committing to defense, then you're more than likely bound for the basement. hell, the charlotte bobcats have a near-talentless roster, but they're much improved this season simply because steve clifford has them playing top-flight defense. again, it's true enough that they're another team in the lowly eastern conference, but they could very well be headed for the playoffs this season on the strength of a top-3 defense, despite their utter lack of offensive skill (28th in ppg at 92.6)...

if coach malone cannot wring a consistent defensive effort out of his team before the all-star break, then i fully expect the kings to trade isaiah thomas prior to the deadline, or hope with all of their might that they can replace him in the offseason, and perhaps re-sign him to a sixth man role. yes, his offensive production has been a nice boost in the starting unit, but so what? seriously, so what? demarcus cousins is proving himself to be the most dominant offensive center in the league, and he's also giving regular effort on defense, despite his lack of lateral and upward mobility. rudy gay is proving that he's still a potent offensive weapon when utilized as a second scoring option, and his length certainly has its uses on defense. why would the kings need isaiah thomas to continue scoring 20 ppg, considering he's an all-time sieve amongst sieves on the more important side of the ball?

now, obviously, the team requires IT's ability to move the ball in the present moment, because there's no one else to do it. but here's the deal, kings fans: jimmer fredette is not in the team's future. if he's not packaged in a deadline deal, he'll be cut loose in the offseason. marcus thornton is also not in the team's future. he's going to be very difficult to move, of course, so the kings might not be able to trade him until he's an ending contract next season. ben mclemore figures to be a part of the kings' future, but it's becoming more and more apparent that he's years away from being an nba-caliber starter. the kings' backcourt needs defensive help. there's no way around it...

if i were PDA, i'd acquire andre miller as a short-term patch at the starting PG position (shouldn't take too much to snag the 37-year-old veteran), then i would trade isaiah thomas while his value is at its highest. IT can certainly bring back useful talent--preferably two-way or defensive talent--in return. sometimes you just have to sacrifice offensive production to become a truly competitive defensive team. otherwise, it's just the spinning of wheels...

 

[Spike]

Anyone that believes that the main thing wrong with the Kings' sieve defense is Isaiah Thomas is a fool.

"As God is my witness, I am that fool!"

 

[sdballer]

Anyone that believes that the main thing wrong with the Kings' sieve defense is Isaiah Thomas is a fool.

I believe Malone declined to be interviewed after the game because he was embarrassed by his "team defense" or lack of it.

Uh, Malone did give quotes after the game and one of the main issues he brought up was the kings players needing to take more personal responsibility in defending penetration.

 

[HighFlyingMonkey]

We can talk about guard defense all day, but ultimately the problems are always going to persist as long as there is a lack of rim protection on this team. Cousins and JT together cannot protect the rim. Thats always going to be a major issue regardless of who you have on the perimeter (well, unless you have Jordan/Pippen or Lebron/Wade, but we don't).

This it the Synergy breakdown of the Kings defense so far:



You'd like the isolation defense and the defense against the P&R roll man to be better, but given that this is a relatively small part of opposing teams' offenses against us (6% and 8% respectively), thats not whats killing us. Overall, we're doing a solid job against the P&R ball handler, which is encouraging. But after that is where it breaks down.

The numbers that jump out to me is the the spot-up numbers. 17% of the offense against us and we are 27th in the league in defending it. Spot-ups can happen in several different situations; either out of the pick and roll, where the third and the fourth rotation is slow, or straight up penetration and dish situations. Both situations scream to me that you're lacking defense around the rim area and as a result are having perimeter defenders completely suck in to prevent points in the paint, leaving shooters open to destroy us from the three point line (42% 3ptFG% for the opponent) or by pump faking and making it out into open space (45% 2ptFG% for opposing teams in spot up situations).

We. Need. Rim. Protection. Ideally, you replace JT with a good defensive C and move Cousins to PF.

The other major issue is transition defense. Teams are running on us consistently and effectively. 29th in the league in defending transition baskets is terrible and killing us. Just from watching the team, considering that the team is pretty decent at not turning it over, the problem clearly is that the team isn't getting back after missed shots. This seems to be a teamwide plague that while teams are running on us, players are pouting or complaining to referees about missed calls.

So overall, our problems are mostly terrible rotations against the P&R after the first and second rotation, lack of rim protection, and lack of urgency getting back on defense. Its a teamwide plague and not going to be fixed until there are some serious upgrades in personnel

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

someday kings fans are going to recognize that you often have to sacrifice offensive production to become a truly competitive defensive team. the miami heat are one of the lone exceptions in that they're an absolutely elite presence on both sides of the ball, but when you are home to lebron james, who is unequivocally the greatest player of his generation, you get to be the lone exception...

then there's a team like the indiana pacers, who score 98 ppg. that's good for 20th in the entire league. yet they only allow 89 ppg. that's good for 1st in the entire nba. it's also good for best record in the entire nba. granted, they play in an abysmally weak conference, but i don't think anybody is holding that against their flat-out dominance. they're a fantastic team, plain and simple. they have a budding superstar in paul george, a defensive anchor in roy hibbert, and role players who fully commit to the defensive side of the ball...

if you score a lotta points, there's no guarantee that the playoffs await. and if you score a lotta points without ever committing to defense, then you're more than likely bound for the basement. hell, the charlotte bobcats have a near-talentless roster, but they're much improved this season simply because steve clifford has them playing top-flight defense. again, it's true enough that they're another team in the lowly eastern conference, but they could very well be headed for the playoffs this season on the strength of a top-3 defense, despite their utter lack of offensive skill (28th in ppg at 92.6)...

if coach malone cannot wring a consistent defensive effort out of his team before the all-star break, then i fully expect the kings to trade isaiah thomas prior to the deadline, or hope with all of their might that they can replace him in the offseason, and perhaps re-sign him to a sixth man role. yes, his offensive production has been a nice boost in the starting unit, but so what? seriously, so what? demarcus cousins is proving himself to be the most dominant offensive center in the league, and he's also giving regular effort on defense, despite his lack of lateral and upward mobility. rudy gay is proving that he's still a potent offensive weapon when utilized as a second scoring option, and his length certainly has its uses on defense. why would the kings need isaiah thomas to continue scoring 20 ppg, considering he's an all-time sieve amongst sieves on the more important side of the ball?

now, obviously, the team requires IT's ability to move the ball in the present moment, because there's no one else to do it. but here's the deal, kings fans: jimmer fredette is not in the team's future. if he's not packaged in a deadline deal, he'll be cut loose in the offseason. marcus thornton is also not in the team's future. he's going to be very difficult to move, of course, so the kings might not be able to trade him until he's an ending contract next season. ben mclemore figures to be a part of the kings' future, but it's becoming more and more apparent that he's years away from being an nba-caliber starter. the kings' backcourt needs defensive help. there's no way around it...

if i were PDA, i'd acquire andre miller as a short-term patch at the starting PG position (shouldn't take too much to snag the 37-year-old veteran), then i would trade isaiah thomas while his value is at its highest. IT can certainly bring back useful talent--preferably two-way or defensive talent--in return. sometimes you just have to sacrifice offensive production to become a truly competitive defensive team. otherwise, it's just the spinning of wheels...

Great post. You hit it right on the nail. That pretty much sums of the state of our Sacramento Kings.

 

[ppine]

It is logical to be willing to sacrifice some offense for better defense. It is also logical that good defense starts many fast breaks and turns into efficient offense.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Uh, Malone did give quotes after the game and one of the main issues he brought up was the kings players needing to take more personal responsibility in defending penetration.

Yep and that is not the first time in the last few games that Malone has had comments that sounded like they were directly at Isaiah.

last night he said we have to play good one on one defense on the ball and not get blown by and rely on the help every play.

 

[The_Jamal]

We can talk about guard defense all day, but ultimately the problems are always going to persist as long as there is a lack of rim protection on this team. Cousins and JT together cannot protect the rim. Thats always going to be a major issue regardless of who you have on the perimeter (well, unless you have Jordan/Pippen or Lebron/Wade, but we don't).

This it the Synergy breakdown of the Kings defense so far:

View attachment 4758

You'd like the isolation defense and the defense against the P&R roll man to be better, but given that this is a relatively small part of opposing teams' offenses against us (6% and 8% respectively), thats not whats killing us. Overall, we're doing a solid job against the P&R ball handler, which is encouraging. But after that is where it breaks down.

The numbers that jump out to me is the the spot-up numbers. 17% of the offense against us and we are 27th in the league in defending it. Spot-ups can happen in several different situations; either out of the pick and roll, where the third and the fourth rotation is slow, or straight up penetration and dish situations. Both situations scream to me that you're lacking defense around the rim area and as a result are having perimeter defenders completely suck in to prevent points in the paint, leaving shooters open to destroy us from the three point line (42% 3ptFG% for the opponent) or by pump faking and making it out into open space (45% 2ptFG% for opposing teams in spot up situations).

We. Need. Rim. Protection. Ideally, you replace JT with a good defensive C and move Cousins to PF.

The other major issue is transition defense. Teams are running on us consistently and effectively. 29th in the league in defending transition baskets is terrible and killing us. Just from watching the team, considering that the team is pretty decent at not turning it over, the problem clearly is that the team isn't getting back after missed shots. This seems to be a teamwide plague that while teams are running on us, players are pouting or complaining to referees about missed calls.

So overall, our problems are mostly terrible rotations against the P&R after the first and second rotation, lack of rim protection, and lack of urgency getting back on defense. Its a teamwide plague and not going to be fixed until there are some serious upgrades in personnel

Dirty shame this post will get ignored. Unfortunately, once an idea takes hold about our problems, it won't break.

Excellent work Monkey

 

[Chubbs]

Dirty shame this post will get ignored. Unfortunately, once an idea takes hold about our problems, it won't break.

Excellent work Monkey

I've seen absolutely no one say we don't need a rim protector. This has been said pretty much every season and every day here since cousins joined the team (I imagine, haven't been here that long). That's not a knock on the post or the poster, there's just nothing to say. He's right. We've known that for years.

That, however, does not excuse the rest of the team by any means. It's both problems. No rim protector, and spectacularly bad guard defense, and as he says, the only way to fix that is get better players. That starts with the guards but doesn't end there.

Half this board has already plugged in Vonleh or Cauley-Stein on this team in their head. I know I have.

 

[hrdboild]

I've seen absolutely no one say we don't need a rim protector. This has been said pretty much every season and every day here since cousins joined the team (I imagine, haven't been here that long). That's not a knock on the post or the poster, there's just nothing to say. He's right. We've known that for years.

Considering we traded Spencer Hawes for Samuel Dalembert a week before we drafted Cousins and then took Hassan Whiteside in the second round, most of us were beside ourselves with joy that we actually had some rim protection on the team for the first time since Keon Clark. Sadly those halcyon days did not last very long.

 

[gunks]

Kings fans are some of the most knowledgeable in the game, and I do believe we can all agree on one thing that contributes greatly to our poor defense.

Isaiah Thomas.

Great guy. Hustles. Plays hard. Can score the ball. But he is also 5'9. We can all agree that on most nights, the opposing team's PG's eyes just light up when they see us. How many guards have torched us this season?

My point is that Thomas is a massive liability on defense. No matter how great of a scorer he is, it's just impossible to make up for his lack of height. Not to mention his selfish style of play, don't be fooled by his high assist count lately. We've got DMC and Rudy Gay to score. IT can be a great asset off the bench, but at this point it would not be a bad idea to trade him while his value is high.

Its IT and the SG rotation. If we had a Tony Allen/Thabo player at the 2 who could hide IT's deficiencies, as well as a rim protector or D would get way better over night.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

Its IT and the SG rotation. If we had a Tony Allen/Thabo player at the 2 who could hide IT's deficiencies, as well as a rim protector or D would get way better over night.

Great point. One of our most massive liabilities could be withstood if only we had players of the caliber that you mentioned who pride themselves on that end of the floor.

 

[Uncia03]

I've seen absolutely no one say we don't need a rim protector. This has been said pretty much every season and every day here since cousins joined the team (I imagine, haven't been here that long). That's not a knock on the post or the poster, there's just nothing to say. He's right. We've known that for years.

That, however, does not excuse the rest of the team by any means. It's both problems. No rim protector, and spectacularly bad guard defense, and as he says, the only way to fix that is get better players. That starts with the guards but doesn't end there.

Half this board has already plugged in Vonleh or Cauley-Stein on this team in their head. I know I have.

This is indeed the case with me. I don't expect to win the lottery and I won't be sweating it this year like I have in years past. I expect us to finish with a pick around 7-10 and I fully expect us to draft Cauley-Stein or Vonleh, and I expect to be very happy with this outcome. Provided that we burn our other assets to get one of the few guards who can really fit with what we've got going on with Cousins and Gay the addition of the defensive big will solidify our line-up for the foreseeable future.

I have no desire to make a trade or burn assets for a shot-blocking big when there are 3 just sitting there in the draft waiting for us.

 

[Glenn]

This is indeed the case with me. I don't expect to win the lottery and I won't be sweating it this year like I have in years past. I expect us to finish with a pick around 7-10 and I fully expect us to draft Cauley-Stein or Vonleh, and I expect to be very happy with this outcome. Provided that we burn our other assets to get one of the few guards who can really fit with what we've got going on with Cousins and Gay the addition of the defensive big will solidify our line-up for the foreseeable future.

I have no desire to make a trade or burn assets for a shot-blocking big when there are 3 just sitting there in the draft waiting for us.

This is a point that people need to consider. The draft may solve a problem and there are rim protectors whether we get a pick anywhere from 1 to 10. The draft provides more rim protectors than pgs.