Aaron Brooks/Isaiah Thomas

[baller13]

It absolutley amazes me how people on this board treat aaron brooks. He is the best of the 3 small guards we have on the team by far. He spaces the floor better than IT because he is a better shooter and the stats prove that. Everytime Brooks takes a shot on this team he is called a ball hog yet it ok for IT to ignore his teammates basically the whole time he is in the game because all he wants to do is shoot, just like MT does most of the time but again its ok for him to do that for some reason? Just like in the last game when they showed an interview with keith smart about the toronto game. Smart was talking about how we had some mismatches on the floor but IT came to him and said he was gonna shoot the next one, Keith Smart asked him WHY? ITs reply was "because im open", And just as smart told IT, its not all about you!!! Some people on this board actually think IT is the point guard of the future. Let me be clear: NO 5'9 is the future starting PG on any team in the league! When guys like Ty Lawson and J.J. Barea are bigger than you its just not possible to be the starting pg on a GOOD team. Neither brooks or IT are a great defender but Brooks is still better, just watch the games. Aaron Brooks works better with Tyreke because he's NOT a ball hog like IT is. Yes AB should have passed the ball back on the fast break with him and cousins where cousins after the play yelled at him to pass the ****ing ball but that hardly means DMC doesnt like him. He said it because on that play AB should have passed the ball back. thats it, nothing else.

The starting 5 on this team should be Brooks, Evans, Salmons, JT and DMC.

We should actively be shopping IT, Jimmer, MT, and Hayes trying to get another Big that can actually rebound and maybe block a shot, and a legit Sf because Salmons is undersized and 33 years old.

 

[spudfan]

I bet that felt good to get off your chest

 

[LWP777]

You're posting to a wall. Nobody here is going to defend Aaron Brooks a whole lot.

 

[Tyndel]

Both of them should really only be used as change of pace guards. Neither one is a pure point guard. But then this team doesn't need pure point guards we need to get our offense cemented into running through Cousins and Reke. Cousins and reke should lead us in assists every year doesn't matter who. That is the offensive system that many of us saw could be possible in cousins first year and why we wanted to keep size with reke at the one. You don't need a 10 assist guard if your center and one of the wings is getting 6 or more each. Again its a waste of time we should have been working on that offense for the last 2 years.

Brooks gets some flack here cause we didn't really want or need him. IT and Brooks are too similar and have the same liabilities. Unfortunately Jimmer is also a defensive liability however both IT and Brooks have had their defensive games when they aren't too overpowered. Brooks has been someone Petri has been looking at for years and we didn't need the exact same player we already had and who should be playing a change of pace role in the second unit so he gets less rope then our 60th pick last year.

Size matters and we have gone too small.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

the fact that its even debatable that Brooks might be the best PG on the team just shows you how badly we need a real PG.
the guy averages 2.8 assists per game, cant guard any opposing PG's, and forces bad shots. some point guard......

 

[KingMilz]

For Brooks to have success like he did in Houston and be at his best he needs the ball in his hands all the time, and have that ultimate greenlight thats not going to happend in Sac-Town as long as Cousins and Evans are there. Its really that simple he doesn't do anything well other than score and since coming back from China he has not looked the same player nethier.

Maybe try ship him to OKC cause they need a back up PG who can create for himself for one of their picks in PJIII or Lamb if they are in win now mode which they should be.

 

[MissingThoseAdelmanDays]

You guys must be kidding. I wonder if the people here saying we need to trade Aaron brooks because we we have IT even watch basketball. Yeah, IT I guess is a likeable guy. But lets be real. Aaron brooks is a better more established player. Its puzzling to me. Isiah has heart and plays with passion but he is also somewhat of a ballhog at times, and has less of a bball IQ. I'm aa loss for words. Aaron has his faults, but s abut come on people

 

[KingMilz]

but he is also somewhat of a ballhog at times, and has less of a bball IQ.

Higher bball IQ thats debatable, imo I much prefer IT in the pick n rolls with Cousins over Brooks and thats the only reason he should be the starter right now.

 

[Bricklayer]

I'll copy paste the numbers I put up in the other thread:

Overall:
21.4min 10.6pts (.448 .352 .873) 1.7reb 2.6ast 0.5stl 0.0blk 1.7TO = tough, scrappy, saavy leader of men with big upside
23.8min 9.3pts (.468 .396 .730) 1.9reb 2.8ast 0.8stl 0.2blk 1.5TO = selfish twit we should cut
14.2min 8.2pts (.434 .411 .908) 1.1reb 1.4ast 0.3stl 0.1blk 1.0TO = unselfish, incomparable shooter, and one helluva nice guy

As starters:
25.3min 11.9pts (.468 .386 .844) 1.7reb 2.7ast 0.6stl 0.1blk = tough, scrappy, saavy leader of men with big upside
25.3min 10.0pts (.490 412 .779) 1.8reb 3.0ast 0.8stl 0.2blk = selfish twit we should cut

As starter, team stats:
Pts For: 96.6; Pts Opp: 100.4ppg; Record: 6-8 (4-2Hm; 2-6Rd) = tough, scrappy, saavy leader of men with big upside
Pts For: 97.8; Pts Opp: 102.7ppg; Record: 7-12 (6-4Hm; 1-8Rd) = selfish twit we should cut

*note: 1 gm where Brooks started but played only 7 min before leaving with an injury I counted for neither guy

Now actually the starter/non-starter stuf and team records are considerably diluted anyway since both guys average only 25.3min per game as starter. Its a true platoon, and half the time the backup plays more than the starter. But in any case, call them all good, call them all turds (more accurate), I don't care. But calling one guy the solution and another the problem is not supported by actual production by them, or the team. If Brooks sucks, so do IT and Jimmer. If IT is great, so are Brooks and Jimmer. I think attempts to single one guy out as a problem, or a solution for that matter, are dubious, and very hard to sort out give the swirl of injureis, lineups, roles and offenses/playing styles we've already employed.

P.S. now I will say this -- of the three guys IT is the best 1 on 1 player. He creates the best for himself. So I think he relatively has an advanatge over the others when he is coming off he bench with a punchless crew. He can still create for himself, and maybe a little for the other players. Brooks and Jimmer (when he is at PG) do better playing alongside stars/others who can create, because its not their thing.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Tyreke should be PG. then we wouldnt even be having this conversation

 

[panda]

I'm not a fan of Brooks. Not saying he is a bad player or anything, just a bad fit in general. I prefer pass first point guards and Brooks *seems* to dribble the ball for 20 seconds every time he touches it. I agree Tyreke should be the PG and either Brooks or Thomas should be traded for a backup 7 footer.

 

[LWP777]

You guys must be kidding. I wonder if the people here saying we need to trade Aaron brooks because we we have IT even watch basketball. Yeah, IT I guess is a likeable guy. But lets be real. Aaron brooks is a better more established player. Its puzzling to me. Isiah has heart and plays with passion but he is also somewhat of a ballhog at times, and has less of a bball IQ. I'm aa loss for words. Aaron has his faults, but s abut come on people

I disagree. While I don't think IT's IQ is off the charts, it's better than Brooks' IQ. Brooks is the "King" of penetrating, jumping in the air, and throwing the ball to nobody in particular. There are many possessions where we end up getting a horrible shot but it will never show in the box score other than in his teammate's shooting percentage.

The reason why this IT/Brooks debate is a good one is because they really are very similar players. Look at the stats Bricklayer put up. It just goes to show that Petrie's signing of Brooks made absolutely zero sense -- something we all knew the minute it happened.

 

[mac]

I disagree. While I don't think IT's IQ is off the charts, it's better than Brooks' IQ. Brooks is the "King" of penetrating, jumping in the air, and throwing the ball to nobody in particular. There are many possessions where we end up getting a horrible shot but it will never show in the box score other than in his teammate's shooting percentage.

The reason why this IT/Brooks debate is a good one is because they really are very similar players. Look at the stats Bricklayer put up. It just goes to show that Petrie's signing of Brooks made absolutely zero sense.

This. Didn't need another scorer - if we were gonna sign a small PG it should have been a pure playmaking one.

 

[KingMilz]

This. Didn't need another scorer - if we were gonna sign a small PG it should have been a pure playmaking one.

Hell even Jamal Tinsley would have done it for me

 

[Kingster]

It absolutley amazes me how people on this board treat aaron brooks. He is the best of the 3 small guards we have on the team by far. He spaces the floor better than IT because he is a better shooter and the stats prove that. Everytime Brooks takes a shot on this team he is called a ball hog yet it ok for IT to ignore his teammates basically the whole time he is in the game because all he wants to do is shoot, just like MT does most of the time but again its ok for him to do that for some reason? Just like in the last game when they showed an interview with keith smart about the toronto game. Smart was talking about how we had some mismatches on the floor but IT came to him and said he was gonna shoot the next one, Keith Smart asked him WHY? ITs reply was "because im open", And just as smart told IT, its not all about you!!! Some people on this board actually think IT is the point guard of the future. Let me be clear: NO 5'9 is the future starting PG on any team in the league! When guys like Ty Lawson and J.J. Barea are bigger than you its just not possible to be the starting pg on a GOOD team. Neither brooks or IT are a great defender but Brooks is still better, just watch the games. Aaron Brooks works better with Tyreke because he's NOT a ball hog like IT is. Yes AB should have passed the ball back on the fast break with him and cousins where cousins after the play yelled at him to pass the ****ing ball but that hardly means DMC doesnt like him. He said it because on that play AB should have passed the ball back. thats it, nothing else.

The starting 5 on this team should be Brooks, Evans, Salmons, JT and DMC.

We should actively be shopping IT, Jimmer, MT, and Hayes trying to get another Big that can actually rebound and maybe block a shot, and a legit Sf because Salmons is undersized and 33 years old.

I think you are going to be very dissapointed going forward. The Kings org is not trading the leader of the team. This team is intangible-deprived as it is and you're thinking they are going to trade that away? (If you don't think intangibles matter, check out the influence of Jason Kidd in NY and Chris Paul in LA). Given what we've seen Cousins? I don't think so. Also, you're really not watching the games. The ball hog moniker is old, tired and incorrect. Yes, IT has to be dialed back sometimes, but from where I stand that is less and less of an issue, especially in the starting role. (In the non-starting role he had nobody to pass to anyway). You guys act like he's been in the league for 10 years and doesn't need any refining (maybe because he's pretty good). Heck, it's taken the power forward Jason Thompson four years to get it down But IT is now about halfway through his second season playing a position that is arguably the toughest in the NBA, and yet you're making final judgements. Just like with JT, just like with Robinson, just like with Jimmer, these premature judgements are foolhardy.

 

[ESP47]

Brooks is a lights out shooter. He is hardly to blame for out teams problems.

 

[sidney]

Tyreke is the starting SG on this team. He needs another guard that can shoot and handle next to him. IT and Brooks can both do that. Overall the IT/Brooks platoon is adequate, not great. Neither guy is blowing away the other. Lowry would have been perfect with IT behind him 15m a game...sigh.

If anything, during this stretch it looks like Thornton is the guy that needs to be traded. Love his game but Tyreke should be getting 32+ at SG and there is just no room for an 8M/year talent like Thornton behind him.

 

[baller13]

I think you are going to be very dissapointed going forward. The Kings org is not trading the leader of the team. This team is intangible-deprived as it is and you're thinking they are going to trade that away? (If you don't think intangibles matter, check out the influence of Jason Kidd in NY and Chris Paul in LA). Given what we've seen Cousins? I don't think so. Also, you're really not watching the games. The ball hog moniker is old, tired and incorrect. Yes, IT has to be dialed back sometimes, but from where I stand that is less and less of an issue, especially in the starting role. (In the non-starting role he had nobody to pass to anyway). You guys act like he's been in the league for 10 years and doesn't needany refining (maybe because he's pretty good). Heck, it's taken the power forward Jason Thompson four years to get it down But IT is now about halfway through his second season playing a position that is arguably the toughest in the NBA, and yet you're making final judgements. Just like with JT, just like with Robinson, just like with Jimmer, these premature judgements are foolhardy.

LMAO, you think IT is the leader of this team?? Bwahahahahahahahaha, that's all the reply you deserve

 

[baller13]

Tyreke is the starting SG on this team. He needs another guard that can shoot and handle next to him. IT and Brooks can both do that. Overall the IT/Brooks platoon is adequate, not great. Neither guy is blowing away the other. Lowry would have been perfect with IT behind him 15m a game...sigh

If anything, during this stretch it looks like Thornton is the guy that needs to be traded. Love his game but Tyreke should be getting 32+ at SG and there is just no room for an 8M/year talent like Thornton behind him.

I agree with all of this too. Lowry would have been perfect. And as i said we should try and trade IT, MT and jimmer to improve the team

 

[Prog]

Tyreke should be PG. then we wouldnt even be having this conversation

I don't see why this option is not explored more (other than Smart being an incapable coach of course). The main complaint against Tyreke as a PG was that he dribbles the first 10 seconds of any half-court offense, but this habit should be easy for him to unlearn, and for sure much easier than changing his jump shot form. As a PG he is a great mismatch against most teams in the league, and his lack of shooting becomes less of an issue. His court vision is not inferior to that of the other guards.

Thornton, Salmons and Jimmer can split the SG minutes.

 

[Section 101]

I don't see why this option is not explored more (other than Smart being an incapable coach of course). The main complaint against Tyreke as a PG was that he dribbles the first 10 seconds of any half-court offense, but this habit should be easy for him to unlearn, and for sure much easier than changing his jump shot form. As a PG he is a great mismatch against most teams in the league, and his lack of shooting becomes less of an issue. His court vision is not inferior to that of the other guards.

Thornton, Salmons and Jimmer can split the SG minutes.

The biggest issue is pace. He's too slow bringing the ball up. Yes he can do it faster, but not every time and he slows down again. It also means he won't be going 100% all the time like he was before getting hurt. If he gets the ball off a rebound and brings it up cause the PG leaked out that's one thing. He shouldn't be getting the ball from out of bounds after a basket. Let him get up the court early and get a pass or hand off if that's the play.

 

[Glenn]

I don't see why this option is not explored more (other than Smart being an incapable coach of course). The main complaint against Tyreke as a PG was that he dribbles the first 10 seconds of any half-court offense, but this habit should be easy for him to unlearn, and for sure much easier than changing his jump shot form. As a PG he is a great mismatch against most teams in the league, and his lack of shooting becomes less of an issue. His court vision is not inferior to that of the other guards.

Thornton, Salmons and Jimmer can split the SG minutes.

I think once the ball is across the center line, the definitions of PG and SG begin to blur and are more defined by the skills of the individual than height, etc. I think the days of Reke pounding and pounding are over although some people seem to be stuck in the past. IT and Brooks control the ball as much as Reke used to but they do it in a different manner. There goal is STILL to get their own shot. Perhaps they can ublearn this. If not, they don't fit with the team.

As to the thread subject, I wish we had never signed Brooks but we can't cry over spilled milk. Given that IT seems to have a better relationship with DFC than Brooks (not based on last games yelling, BTW), I'd love to see Brooks traded and preferably in a package deal with MT or any of one from the Garcia, Outlaw, and Hayes collection to get a shot blocker. No one else except the top two guys are untouchable in my mind. I normally would consider JT as relatively untouchable but JT COULD be traded in a package deal to get the higher skilled shot blocker. TRob should not be traded as we really don't have anything more than guesses as to how he will be playing an a few years.

PG may be the most difficult position to learn but that doesn't mean it is the most important position. I also could mount an argument about how difficult the position is as it depends on the offense.

Ideally, let's trade away two guards and get one shot blocker. I don't know why this can't be done. To get a mega shot blocker, package Brooks and JT.

Some people will be unhappy with me for this comment but I think a starting tandem of Jimmer and Reke makes for a fine back court. We have plenty of people who can be a PG if we must label people at that position. Salmons, Brooks, IT, Reke, Jimmer, and even Cisco could do it. Trade a few along with the ale of the team to Burkle, please.

 

[Glenn]

LMAO, you think IT is the leader of this team?? Bwahahahahahahahaha, that's all the reply you deserve

It's a discussion forum. He deserves more than this.

 

[baller13]

Aaron Brooks averages about 2 and half more minutes a game than IT yet IT averages about a half a shot more, But yet Aaron Brooks is the ball hog??

Im in no way suggesting that Brooks is the point guard that will lead us to the promise land, Simply saying he is better than IT and Jimmer. Im tired of hearing that playing Brooks is stunting the growth of IT and jimmer. You do realize that Brooks is only 27 right?? He's not exactly an old man. IT should get the backup min and jimmer should get everyone gatorade on the bench along with garcia, hayes, outlaw and honeycutt.

9 man rotation: Brooks, Evans, Salmons, JT and Cuz

Bench: IT, Thorton, JJ, Trob
Every linup on the floor should have at least 2 starters. Cuz or JT should be on the floor at all times, just like Evans or Salmons should be on the floor at all times. Its really not rocket science