A picture worth a thousand words

VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
There are often times when a picture tells a story, but doesn't always fit into a particular thread. So I've started this one. :)

10994069_10153793120183463_382553378892236225_n.jpg

FROM NBA (Facebook):
Friday Stats Leaderboard:
Rajon Rondo leads all players in points created off assists, at 27.9 per game: nba.com/stats
 
kingsboi said:
so in other news, retaining Rondo is vital for the success of the team moving forward, with or without Karl at the helm.
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It's really not he's not even a better player than Darren and every single one of the guys on that list aside Rondo is a above average to elite defender while he's terrible therefore they are expending energy to win games as overall players while he's padding assists.

Statistics can be badly misleading I'm sure Grevis Vasquez the year he was leading the league in assists while providing little to nothing else would have looked spectacular on a graph like that.
 
KingMilz said:
It's really not he's not even a better player than Darren and every single one of the guys on that list aside Rondo is a above average to elite defender while he's terrible therefore they are expending energy to win games as overall players while he's padding assists.

Statistics can be badly misleading I'm sure Grevis Vasquez the year he was leading the league in assists while providing little to nothing else would have looked spectacular on a graph like that.
Click to expand...

I understand your criticism of Rondo's defense, but where does he pad assists? Offensively Rondo is excactly what we hoped he would be - an on court leader, able to ochestrate the offense. And he exceeded the expectations with his shooting.
 
KingMilz said:
It's really not he's not even a better player than Darren and every single one of the guys on that list aside Rondo is a above average to elite defender while he's terrible therefore they are expending energy to win games as overall players while he's padding assists.

Statistics can be badly misleading I'm sure Grevis Vasquez the year he was leading the league in assists while providing little to nothing else would have looked spectacular on a graph like that.
Click to expand...

not being a good defender =/= as padding stats
 
KingMilz said:
It's really not he's not even a better player than Darren and every single one of the guys on that list aside Rondo is a above average to elite defender while he's terrible therefore they are expending energy to win games as overall players while he's padding assists.

Statistics can be badly misleading I'm sure Grevis Vasquez the year he was leading the league in assists while providing little to nothing else would have looked spectacular on a graph like that.
Click to expand...

I do agree that based on the pace the Kings play his stats are padded a bit, but even with all that, when he isn't in there instructing guys where to go, the team starts playing rec style basketball and all for one and one for all mentality strikes. I'd like to see how he does under a new head coach, new system...therefore the reason why if he were interested in returning, give him a 3 year deal rather than the full 5 year deal.
 
KingsFanGER said:
I understand your criticism of Rondo's defense, but where does he pad assists? Offensively Rondo is excactly what we hoped he would be - an on court leader, able to ochestrate the offense. And he exceeded the expectations with his shooting.
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I think we like we always do tend to overrate what Rondo brings to the table, the reality is he's not really helped any team in terms of success since the big 3 in Boston broke up but he's always putting up good stats. Him and Rudy Gay are very similar in that regard.

The only picutre worth 1000 words now is the playoff standings
 
Bricklayer said:
not being a good defender =/= as padding stats
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He has done that in the past though during his last couple years in Boston. Several friends who watched them closely said that Rondo would go assist hunting. Also recall several national writers calling out the same thing.
 
Color me not surprised in the least that several are dismissing evidence suggesting that our PG assists are more efficient/effective than any other player in the league. I guess teams are "allowing" him to pad stats and not trying to stop him at all. Go figure.

There just has to be a negative reason for everything.
 
The_Jamal said:
He has done that in the past though during his last couple years in Boston. Several friends who watched them closely said that Rondo would go assist hunting. Also recall several national writers calling out the same thing.
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Yeah, whatever that means.

Wheeee! Look at me force a teammate to make a shot for my own purposes! As opposed to all those times when it would be better for the team if he didn't.
 
I wouldn't overpay Rondo.

DC is good. DC was great playing with Cuz and Rudy before Rondo.

That being said, if we can sign him to a reasonable deal, I'm way down! Fun having a guy who can go off for 20 assists any given night.
 
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I read something that said by PER standards, and I think some other factors considered he's roughly a middle of the pack PG when compared to the rest of the league. Not close to elite. He's obviously the best passer by far though.
 
gunks said:
I wouldn't overpay Rondo.

DC is good. DC was great playing with Cuz and Rudy before Rondo.

That being said, if we can sign him to a reasonable deal, I'm way down! Fun having a guy who can go off for 20 assists any given night.
Click to expand...

I'd love to make a run at Mike Conley first and foremost, but that might not be all that possible so you are left with Rondo, in that case you try to work out a short 3 year deal with him and hope he doesn't coast from there
 
I for one think Rondo and Cuz make a fantastic duo. If we can sign Rondo (doubt it) we have to pair him with a two way sg.
 
First of all, the fact that Cousins loves Rondo and wants him to stay has to be a factor.

Secondly, Rondo isn't a terrible defender he's an inconsistent one who happens to be one of the best guys in the league at a skill (playing the passing lanes) that gets very little appreciation from casual fans. Yes it looks like he's just hovering in open space guarding nobody but that isn't what he's doing. A basketball can only travel in a straight line. If you stand between a player and the ball, you are effectively denying them the ball. Doug Christie used to do it all game long. If you imagine a triangle with three offensive players one of which has the basketball and you stand in the middle you can sometimes deny two players the ball, depending on the spacing. The common criticism is that playing defense this way takes you out of position to guard anybody but really it's just about playing the angles and knowing where the ball can travel (not all that different from the way he plays offense). If the offensive player chooses to lob the ball over you instead, the ball takes longer to get there because the passer is relying on gravity to drop it down where their teammate can reach it. That gives you extra time to close out on the shooter. And it's not just gambling either. If you study the game tape and know the other team's plays, you can predict where the ball is supposed to go next.

It's the same principle on the boards. Rondo is anticipating when a shot will go up and looking for where on the floor he needs to be to grab a rebound. Half the time when it looks like he gives up on a play or he finds himself way out of position to defend the three point line it's because he was already preparing himself to rebound and got caught out in the open by an extra pass. Obviously that's not ideal but it's a tradeoff for what he brings to the game as a rebounder and you have to admit he does come up with a lot of rebounds that no other player his size is pulling in, on both ends of the court.

Which is a long-winded way of saying that he's only terrible defensively if you aren't paying attention or you're looking for things to criticize. I'm not saying he doesn't make mistakes, only that he doesn't get enough credit for what he does well. The rebound and steal numbers aren't flukes -- he's been doing that his whole career. When somebody drives right by him it's obvious. When he hovers between three players and comes up with the ball it looks like luck but nobody just "lucks" their way to 107 steals in 54 games.
 
hrdboild said:
First of all, the fact that Cousins loves Rondo and wants him to stay has to be a factor.
Click to expand...

A big enough factor that combined with Vlade trying to bring in experienced vets we will almost certainly try to bring back the league's assist leader next year. Who knows how that will go depending how the remaining season and postseason coach search go. And whether Vivek meddles.
 
I could care less about individual stats. Give me team stats, such as wins and losses.

The Spurs have nobody on their team close to the stats of Cousins and Rondo. Yet, the Spurs kick the Kings' a** year in year out. Maybe somebody in the analytics department of the Kings should check that out.
 
Kingster said:
I could care less about individual stats. Give me team stats, such as wins and losses.

The Spurs have nobody on their team close to the stats of Cousins and Rondo. Yet, the Spurs kick the Kings' a** year in year out. Maybe somebody in the analytics department of the Kings should check that out.
Click to expand...

Spurs are freaks. In some ways not even a model franchise because they are such outliers that nobody else has been able to do what they do with results at that level. Pop may be the big key. He's won slugging it out with big stars. Running without big stars. Slow paced, fast paced. Best player a C, best player a PG. You can barely draw lessons from it.

Our problems are defensive anyway. Our big stats guys are getting winning level results on offense, even without any SG production at all. We should be a +.500 playoff team with our offense.

For 10 years now its been the defense that has killed us.

Defensive Ratings
2015-16 Spurs #1, Kings #23
2014-15 Spurs #2, Kings #27
2013-14 Spurs #3, Kings #23
2012-13 Spurs #3, Kings #29
2011-12 Spurs #11, Kings #29
2010-11 Spurs #11, Kings #19
2009-10 Spurs #8, Kings #19
2008-09 Spurs #5, Kings #30
2007-08 Spurs #3, Kings #25
2006-07 Spurs #2, Kings #22

There ya go, the entirety of the metric analysis needed to explain the divergent fate of the two franchises since we met in the playoffs in 2005-06.

Wdiz9ph.jpg

chris-mullin-and-sacramento-kings-owner-vivek-ranadive-smile-for-the-picture-id186456588
 
Bricklayer said:
Spurs are freaks. In some ways not even a model franchise because they are such outliers that nobody else has been able to do what they do with results at that level.
Click to expand...

That's the thing about great teams - they all are outliers. That's why they are great. It's about time to model the Kings on the greatest outlier we've seen over the last 20 years.
 
Kingster said:
That's the thing about great teams - they all are outliers. That's why they are great. It's about time to model the Kings on the greatest outlier we've seen over the last 20 years.
Click to expand...

The other thing about great teams is that you can't emulate them like that. If you could, everybody would be great.
 
kingsboi said:
I'd love to make a run at Mike Conley first and foremost, but that might not be all that possible so you are left with Rondo, in that case you try to work out a short 3 year deal with him and hope he doesn't coast from there
Click to expand...

I'd tattoo Mike Conley's name on my left cheek if he signs here next year.
 
Bricklayer said:
The other thing about great teams is that you can't emulate them like that. If you could, everybody would be great.
Click to expand...

But you can emulate the Spurs. You emulate the principles by which they run their operation. The manifestation may be different, but the principles remain the same. From what I've seen, this Kings' organization has only one principle - to make the most people happy at any mini-moment in time. That's why they lurch and veer from one direction to another direction, from one coach to another, from one strategy to another. That's why you see the unprincipled PDA phenomenon; that's why you see the grasping at straws with the popular Karl hire; that's why you see the fan-favorite Divac hire; that's why you see the support of Karl with one stroke, and then undercutting him the next; that's why you see the coddling of Cousins. That's why this organization appears soooooooo incredibly inept. They talk about culture...yeah, right. What a freaking joke. The culture of this organization is based on the principle of a pandering politician, not a successful organization, which must have a bedrock of principles to steer the course through difficult times.
 
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