A league comparison of Hawes and Thompson:

[roasthawg]

PER's of the listed players

Jason Thompson
Year 1 -- 13.9
Year 2 -- 14.1

Antonio McDyess
Year 1 -- 15.6
Year 2 -- 15.5
Year 3 -- 20.3

Kenyon Martin
Year 1 -- 13.4
Year 2 -- 14.5
Year 3 -- 16.9

Al Jefferson
Year 1 -- 16.6
Year 2 -- 16.8
Year 3 -- 19.8

Nene Hilario
Year 1 -- 15.4
Year 2 -- 14.8
Year 3 -- 15.6

Rasheed Wallace
Year 1 -- 11.8
Year 2 -- 18.4
Year 3 -- 14.9

Tyrus Thomas
Year 1 -- 14.8
Year 2 -- 14.6
Year 3 -- 15.9

Chris Bosh
Year 1 -- 15.1
Year 2 -- 17.5
Year 3 -- 23.2


Udonis Haslem
Year 1 -- 13.7
Year 2 -- 15.5
Year 3 -- 13.7

Lamarcus Aldridge
Year 1 -- 17.1
Year 2 -- 18.5
Year 3 -- 19.1



Centers

Spencer Hawes
Year 1 -- 11.6
Year 2 -- 13.0
Year 3 -- 13.8

Tyson Chandler
Year 1 -- 13.0
Year 2 -- 15.8
Year 3 -- 14.2

Kendrick Perkins
Year 1 -- 22.8
Year 2 -- 11.2
Year 3 -- 13.2

Brendan Haywood
Year 1 -- 13.7
Year 2 -- 13.5
Year 3 -- 17.2

Chris Kaman
Year 1 -- 9.6
Year 2 -- 13.1
Year 3 -- 15.0

Andrew Bogut
Year 1 -- 15.2
Year 2 -- 15.5
Year 3 -- 17.5

Andrea Bargnani
Year 1 -- 12.8
Year 2 -- 10.6
Year 3 -- 14.6

Joakim Noah
Year 1 -- 15.5
Year 2 -- 16.5
Year 3 -- 17.3


Looking at these numbers it's pretty obvious that Hawes and JT are on the lower end of the spectrum in this group.

 

[roasthawg]

^In fact, looking at that list above every single power forward had had a better single season high than JT's 14.1 by their 2nd season and the same could be said for the centers and Hawe's 3 season best PER of 13.8. Our guys might be the two worst players listed.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

There were a few, but they had literaly gotten little or no playing time so I didn't think it would be a fair comparison. Bogut would be one example that was listed. Bargnani would be another.

I just checked every draft from 2002-2007 and it's even rarer than that. Bogut was a sophomore. The only other college center to enter the NBA after his freshman season during that time was Oden.

So for now, the only conclusion I can reach (that anyone can feel free to disagree with) is that Hawes is ahead of the curve compared to the players who came straight from high school and were younger and behind the curve for players with more college experience who were older by their 3rd NBA season.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Haslem started every game but two out of his career from his second year until just this season.

Good catch. Forgot he had started along side Shaq.

 

[bajaden]

^In fact, looking at that list above every single power forward had had a better single season high than JT's 14.1 by their 2nd season and the same could be said for the centers and Hawe's 3 season best PER of 13.8. Our guys might be the two worst players listed.

I know a lot of people are big believers in the Per 40 or the per 48 totals. I don't happen to be one of them, because your assuming that if the player could just play that amount of minutes his scoring rate or rebounding rate would continue at the same ratio. And with some players its true and with some others its not. Plus if you take for instance a first years stats and lets say he only played 10 minutes a game and project them out to 48 minutes and then compare his stats with a another first year player that perhaps played 25 minutes a game, the 10 minute a game player may have the better stats.

But that doesn't factor in things like how much more stamina is required by the 25 minute player. Or that the other team actually plans for him in their defensive scheme when they don't for the 10 minute player. There are just a lot of variables that can enter in to it. My point is that it has some flaws.

There are a lot of players that have had great 48 per numbers that have never been more than 7 or 8 minute a game players for their careers. Usually the reason being that when they actually had a chance to play serious minutes their numbers fell off. I'm not saying its not a nice tool. But It doesn't work for every player.

 

[roasthawg]

I know a lot of people are bit believers in the Per 40 or the per 48 totals. I don't happen to be one of them, because your assuming that if the player could just play that amount of minutes his scoring rate or rebounding rate would continue at the same ratio. And with some players its true and with some others its not. Plus if you take for instance a first years stats and lets say he only played 10 minutes a game and project them out to 48 minutes and then compare his stats with a another first year player that perhaps played 25 minutes a game, the 10 minute a game player may have the better stats.

But that doesn't factor in things like how much more stamina is required by the 25 minute player. Or that the other team actually plans for him in their defensive scheme when they don't for the 10 minute player. There are just a lot of variables that can enter in to it. My point is that it has some flaws.

There are a lot of players that have had great 48 per numbers that have never been more than 7 or 8 minute a game players for their careers. Usually the reason being that when they actually had a chance to play serious minutes their numbers fell off. I'm not saying its not a nice tool. But It doesn't work for every player.

I agree with this if the minutes are wildly skewed (like one player averaged 7 minutes a game and the other averaged 30). But if the minutes are close I like PER... it takes a lot of stuff into account pretty well... not perfectly but a lot better than trying to look at 5 different stats and figuring out who the more valuable player was. JT and Hawes are definitely on the lower end of the spectrum as far as their progress is concerned in comparison to the other players listed but I didn't take age into consideration and that's something that's been discussed in this thread.

 

[bigbadred00]

Who is Lamarcus Aldrich? pretty sure it's aldridge...aldrich is the big white kid who plays on Kansas this season.

 

[bajaden]

Who is Lamarcus Aldrich? pretty sure it's aldridge...aldrich is the big white kid who plays on Kansas this season.

Ha ha, my bad.. Thats what happens when you post at one in the morning. Yeah I meant Aldridge. Picky picky picky..

 

[Kingster]

From my point of view, Thompson, despite his stumble in the middle of the year is still within the curve. Hawes is definitely behind the curve. One common denominator among the centers is that by and large, unless they're Shaq, or the equivilent, they can struggle for a while. It took Kaman over 6 years to figure it out.

Whats interesting is sometimes its the players that sat on the bench and played limited minutes for a couple of years that turned into good players. I say sometimes, because there are players that started out on the bench and 7 years later, they're still coming off the bench. My point is that maybe it would have been better for Thompson to come off the bench behind an established PF. Unfortunately, we didn't have one. Mike Moore doesn't count.

What Hawes has to figure out is a work ethic for himself in the offseason. I'd be very patient with him if he showed that he was working his butt off during the summer. But if I'm in the FO and I don't see that drive, I'm no longer patient. Westphal and Petrie have to make clear to him what's at stake - his career.

 

[bajaden]

What Hawes has to figure out is a work ethic for himself in the offseason. I'd be very patient with him if he showed that he was working his butt off during the summer. But if I'm in the FO and I don't see that drive, I'm no longer patient. Westphal and Petrie have to make clear to him what's at stake - his career.

I think its Hawes inconsistancy that drives everyone nuts. If he was consistantly bad, or consistantly good, at least you could get a solid read on what you have in him. But he'll give you nothing for three or so games and then all of a sudden give you a couple of really good games. So will the real Spencer Hawes please stand up.

I hate to say, but he reminds me a lot of Brad Miller with the inconsistancy. Brad would give you 12 boards one night and then give you 2 boards the next night. Very frustrating...

 

[Kingster]

I think its Hawes inconsistancy that drives everyone nuts. If he was consistantly bad, or consistantly good, at least you could get a solid read on what you have in him. But he'll give you nothing for three or so games and then all of a sudden give you a couple of really good games. So will the real Spencer Hawes please stand up.

I hate to say, but he reminds me a lot of Brad Miller with the inconsistancy. Brad would give you 12 boards one night and then give you 2 boards the next night. Very frustrating...

When people said that Miller could be his role model, it made me cringe. I'm hoping Westphal sends him a bigtime message at the end of the year...

 

[Sptsjunkie]

I think its Hawes inconsistancy that drives everyone nuts. If he was consistantly bad, or consistantly good, at least you could get a solid read on what you have in him. But he'll give you nothing for three or so games and then all of a sudden give you a couple of really good games. So will the real Spencer Hawes please stand up.

I hate to say, but he reminds me a lot of Brad Miller with the inconsistancy. Brad would give you 12 boards one night and then give you 2 boards the next night. Very frustrating...

This is precisely where I point to him being a 21/22 years old (his bday is during the season). Please give me a list of 21/22 year old centers who played with the type of consistency you desire. I can guarantee the list will be very very short and is likely to be filled with Hall of Famers.

 

[sactownfan]

This is precisely where I point to him being a 21/22 years old (his bday is during the season). Please give me a list of 21/22 year old centers who played with the type of consistency you desire. I can guarantee the list will be very very short and is likely to be filled with Hall of Famers.

totally agree... I wich Hawes was a little more like Evans who already has a plan of attack for the offseason that includes working on things he doesn't do well... like his jump shot... kinda makes you wonder what Hawes has been doing in detail these past few summers... other than going to school and ditching Evans, Casspi, Greene, JT, Brockman in the summer league...

 

[Tetsujin]

totally agree... I wich Hawes was a little more like Evans who already has a plan of attack for the offseason that includes working on things he doesn't do well... like his jump shot... kinda makes you wonder what Hawes has been doing in detail these past few summers... other than going to school and ditching Evans, Casspi, Greene, JT, Brockman in the summer league...

As far as I know, going to college is a perfectly good excuse to miss optional summer league. I believe that he missed summer league for some other reason however.

 

[jthompson1]

totally agree... I wich Hawes was a little more like Evans who already has a plan of attack for the offseason that includes working on things he doesn't do well... like his jump shot... kinda makes you wonder what Hawes has been doing in detail these past few summers... other than going to school and ditching Evans, Casspi, Greene, JT, Brockman in the summer league...

Seriously man, give it a rest. It's really annoying knowing every one of your posts is going to be about criticizing Hawes.

 

[sactownfan]

As far as I know, going to college is a perfectly good excuse to miss optional summer league. I believe that he missed summer league for some other reason however.

actually going to college is not a good excuse to ditch your team and miss the summer league... honestly i like that Hawes is continuing his education but it should in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY interfere with his PAID JOB/CAREER...

He is currently earning millions with a basketball career... if something were to happen to Hawes like an injury... He will have plenty of money to hold him over so he can finish college and pursue a different career path...

THIS team and THIS career needs to be his priority... just look at the thread about whats on Tyrekes offseason plans... thats what separates the average from the great...

Again I have no problem with Hawes taking a class here and there... but if its taking up so much time he hardly has time to play basketball like he revealed during an interview with the Kings.com reporter. It was during his first summer as a King.... thats a serious problem for this team and Hawes career advancement....

College is great and im proud that Hawes is going to finish school and is a smart guy... but to be honest im not a fan of Hawes the student and hes not being paid to be Hawes the student... He's getting paid MILLIONS right now to be Hawes the inconstant soft center for the Sacramento Kings!

 

[jthompson1]

actually going to college is not a good excuse to miss the summer league... honestly i like that Hawes is continuing his education but it should in ABSOLUTELY NO WAY interfere with his PAID JOB/CAREER...

He is currently earning millions with a basketball career... if something were to happen to Hawes like an injury... He will have plenty of money to hold him over so he can finish college and pursue a different career path...

THIS team and THIS career needs to be his priority... just look at the thread about whats on Tyrekes offseason plans... thats what separates the average from the great...

Again I have no problem with Hawes taking a class here and there... but if its taking up so much time he hardly has time to play basketball like he revealed during an interview with the Kings.com reporter. It was during his first summer as a King.... thats a serious problem for this team and Hawes career advancement....

College is great and im proud that Hawes is going to finish school and is a smart guy... but to be honest im not a fan of Hawes the student and hes not being paid to be Hawes the student... He's getting paid MILLIONS right now to be Hawes the inconstant soft center for the Sacramento Kings!

College is a perfectly reasonable reason to miss. It's not like Hawes is going to be in college for 10 years. You just come off stupid everytime you make stupid, ignorant jokes about Hawes.

 

[sactownfan]

im gonna say this again... Im not against college or taking classes

dang! take it easy...

I have no problem with him taking classes... but Hawes admitted himself in an interview he did during his 1st offseason.... that he was so busy with school he hadn't had much time to even play basketball...

im sorry but if im a GM or Coach and i have a top 10 pick that im paying millions of dollars to get better and play basketball... he needs to take less classes, work on his game, get better and play basketball!!!

one more time.... one more time...

classes and college are fine.... being so busy you cant work on your game or even play basketball isn't showing me your 100% on board... not good...

BTW... im not even sure Hawes missed the summer league because of school... im pretty sure he was just being a big baby because he thought he was too good for summer school being a 3rd year player... Petrie and Paul were extremely not happy with Hawes because of it...so its not just me...

as far as the college thing... like i said... its not a good excuse either... and the interview he did proves that he needs to take less classes (he can still take some... just less)

 

[Kingster]

As far as I know, going to college is a perfectly good excuse to miss optional summer league. I believe that he missed summer league for some other reason however.

This is where I disagree with you. I'm all for education. It's incredibly important. But when you sign a multi-million dollar contract, you're not in school anymore. You're a professional in a billion dollar industry. Hawes needs to start act like a professional, not a kid in college.

 

[Tetsujin]

This is where I disagree with you. I'm all for education. It's incredibly important. But when you sign a multi-million dollar contract, you're not in school anymore. You're a professional in a billion dollar industry. Hawes needs to start act like a professional, not a kid in college.

But I don't think he missed summer league for that reason. It was something like his sister got married or something

 

[Kingster]

But I don't think he missed summer league for that reason. It was something like his sister got married or something

You don't miss the entire summer league because your sister got married. I just want to read about Hawes going to a big man's camp or hiring a personal trainer or something to have some confidence that he's dedicated to getting much better. Haven't heard anything yet...

 

[Tetsujin]

You don't miss the entire summer league because your sister got married. I just want to read about Hawes going to a big man's camp or hiring a personal trainer or something to have some confidence that he's dedicated to getting much better. Haven't heard anything yet...

I'm pretty sure that there's plenty we don't hear about. I know we all expect Spence to be the second coming of Bill Walton (who was a hell of a big until his body exploded) but maybe, just maybe, our expectations are a touch too high.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Seriously man, give it a rest. It's really annoying knowing every one of your posts is going to be about criticizing Hawes.

I'll actually defend STF here. While he can over react to specific games and players, here he was agreeing with me that there are a very short list of centers in NBA history Hawes' age who played consistently.

With that said, it does not mean Hawes is immune from criticism. I don't agree with STF that Hawes has no plan of attack. I have seen improvement from him each season. This season he does seem to have more strength and is not getting pushed around in the post by mediocre bigs like last year. He also is boxing out better (when he doesn't have to rotate to help on penetration) and we are seeing less games where players like Drew Gooden get 8-10 offensive-boards against him.

With that said, I was also very disappointed that Hawes missed summer league. School was out by that point. While my read might be wrong, I kind of sensed that Hawes felt too good to be playing in it. I mean Casspi flew in from Israel after a game there (I believe) and played in the league. Meanwhile, even if Hawes had to miss one game for a wedding (a legit excuse), he certainly did not have to miss the whole tournament.

Ironically, I think Hawes' primary characteristic which can either be a great asset or his fatal flaw is his pride. He wants to be great, he has a high sense of self and a lot of pride. This is a great characteristic that can drive players to constant improvement and great careers. It can also make them hard headed and stubborn and immune to hearing criticism. I actually see a little bit of myself in him for better of for worse.

And this seems to play out on the court. There are times when he runs afoul of coaches for his pride and his sense of unearned entitlement. However, he has also responded to criticism and bad games by coming out in the next one with passion and drive. He hates to lose and seems to take his role on the team very personally (not a bad thing).

With the team coming together and this good young core likely staying together and hopefully pushing each other this off season, I will be very interested to see what Hawes does.

 

[Prince_XY]

College is a perfectly reasonable reason to miss. It's not like Hawes is going to be in college for 10 years. You just come off stupid everytime you make stupid, ignorant jokes about Hawes.

I actually think this post is one of the most dumb post I've ever read, pardon me.

You probably don't know how much Hawes is getting payed per year by the Kings and you probably thought that immediately after graduating college Hawes can get a job that will pay him in the range of what he actually gets now in the NBA.

 

[Prince_XY]

But I don't think he missed summer league for that reason. It was something like his sister got married or something

The more that he shouldn't be excused and the more that we should think Hawes is lazy and full of BS if this indeed is his excuse. How long does it take for a wedding ceremony to finish?

 

[sactownfan]

OK... Couple things... One Hawes didn't miss summer league because of school..

Two... He does not practice much when he does go to school...

Three... He missed summer league because he was too good for it... He just ditched it... Petrie and Paul were very upset.

Four... I've been trying to take it a little more easy on hawes... But it's tough when it's down to JT and him as the most annoying... With hawes being the most inconsistent, and soft.

His attitude like that summer league thing, etc is what just makes it so hard to handle

 

[sactownfan]

Actually... One thing making it easier to handle hawes... is Tyreke being so dang awesome and his play this year and plan for the offseason is just what this team needs

 

[Prince_XY]

This is where I disagree with you. I'm all for education. It's incredibly important. But when you sign a multi-million dollar contract, you're not in school anymore. You're a professional in a billion dollar industry. Hawes needs to start act like a professional, not a kid in college.

There you go jthompson1. This is also a very good reason why Hawes had to do what he had to do. Hawes has a responsibility to put his job on top of his priority, especially that he is being payed millions in the profession he is doing now. College can wait in this case. We are talking about "millions" and not just tens of thousands in this case.

I wish there is a way that fans can sue their team in court ( or in this case the player ) if they are not doing their job very well, just like we can sue those doctors who get less than a million a year when they mess-up. That would be nice.

 

[sactownfan]

There you go jthompson1. This is also a very good reason why Hawes had to do what he had to do. Hawes has a responsibility to put his job on top of his priority, especially that he is being payed millions in the profession he is doing now. College can wait in this case. We are talking about "millions" and not just tens of thousands in this case.

I wish there is a way that fans can sue their team in court ( or in this case the player ) if they are not doing their job very well, just like we can sue those doctors who get less than a million a year when they mess-up. That would be nice.

If that was allowed I would have sued hawes a few hundred times already... lol!

 

[VF21]

If that was allowed I would have sued hawes a few hundred times already... lol!

If I might?

Yeah, we get it. You don't like Hawes. You've never liked Hawes. You have no use for him, you think he's worthless, blah, blah, blah...

And every time you derail one of these threads with that kind of rhetoric, it becomes all about you and your dislike of Hawes.

Dude... The board is called KINGSFANS. It's a place for fans to come to talk about the team, analyze, compare, criticize, exhort, etc. It's all about the discussion, not the same old tired refrain.

Look at all the work done by the OP and some of the responses. They're not making it a personal attack on Spencer Hawes. They're bringing up the good and the bad, and analyzing him as a player. You could try doing the same instead of rolling out the same tired mantras.

I'm not sure why it's become en vogue to lambast our own players but it's really gotten old. No, Hawes isn't perfect but he's certainly not earned the amount of vitriol you've spewed in his direction.

The topic at hand is "A league comparison of Hawes and Thompson." Why not see what you can contribute TO the discussion instead of repeating what pretty much everyone who has been here more than a week already knows?