$70 million of unplayable, untradable contracts

[IfAt1st]

(I'm unfairly labeling Chuck Hayes' contract unplayable and untradable for the purposes of this thread, on the worst-case scenario that he has chronic dislocated shoulder problems rendering him unable to play significantly the rest of his career)

John Salmons $23 million
Francisco Garcia $12 million
Chuck Hayes $22.4 million
Travis Outlaw $12 million

3 out of these 4 unplayable, untradable guys were just added this disastrous offseason.

Just imagine if the Kings stopped looking for middling talent and actually spent some of that $70 million to get a real impact NBA player to Sacramento, who could help turn this team into a winner.

$70 million can get you a lot of talent (- $12 million that Cisco was owed previously, but they could have amnestied him IIRC)

70 million dollars.
*slams head against desk repeatedly*

 

[BMiller52]

Chuck's career is not over, it's an injury you can heal from, he'll be back, next season at the latest. I'm with you on Salmons/Outlaw. Garcia's not a starter but he's not bad. He's an average role player who can defend and shoot and if we'd amnestied him he would've made a great bench player for the spurs or celtics.

 

[ParniValjak]

While Chuck Hayes might be a bit overpaid, he is by no means unpayable or unmoveable! He is a good veteran whose presence does make us better balanced at least. He is one genuine role player in our starting 5. Doesn't care about scoring but cares about defence and winning. I thought he played well against the Jazz and had a couple of elite moments defensively.

Like I said, while he might be a touch overpaid, he is far from unmoveable to unpayable. He would have have been an outstanding signing for us had we also kept Dalembert. Hayes is one of those guys whose stats do not really represent his true worth to the team. A genuine glue guy and a veteran who has a meticulous preparation and comes to play with the right attitude. Definitely a good presence to have on a young team BUT not as THE answer but as a PART of the answer.

And shoulder injuries are not career ending.

 

[DeMoN]

We have to get to .500 before we can start luring in big fish.

 

[Bricklayer]

Well, we certainly didn't do ourselves any favors this summer, but the situation may not be THAT dire...one hopes.

Hayes should be able to come back, althoguh he could easily miss the season if they decide something more than rest is needed. Bust of a signing, but he should be all right in the future. CWebb once missed a whole season (well except for like 17 games) with a dislocated shoulder a couple of years before we got him. He was of course a man of glass, but he never had any shoulder problems I recall in his time with us.

Of the others Cisco has a little use as a leader/willing roleplayer. And the amnesty clause built into the new CBA means we can escape the Salmons contract, at least for salary cap purposes, if we ever need to. We uhnfortunately reloaded just exactly on those MLE style contracts that Geoff has always showna weakness for, and that were choking the life out of the franchise a few years back, but we have ways to make most of them either be useful (Hayes and Garcia could be vetran leadership if nothing else) or disappear. Just made things harder, but not impossible.

 

[ParniValjak]

Well, we certainly didn't do ourselves any favors this summer, but the situation may not be THAT dire...one hopes.

Hayes should be able to come back, althoguh he could easily miss the season if they decide something more than rest is needed. Bust of a signing, but he should be all right in the future. CWebb once missed a whole season (well except for like 17 games) with a dislocated shoulder a couple of years before we got him. He was of course a man of glass, but he never had any shoulder problems I recall in his time with us.

Of the others Cisco has a little use as a leader/willing roleplayer. And the amnesty clause built into the new CBA means we can escape the Salmons contract, at least for salary cap purposes, if we ever need to. We uhnfortunately reloaded just exactly on those MLE style contracts that Geoff has always showna weakness for, and that were choking the life out of the franchise a few years back, but we have ways to make most of them either be useful (Hayes and Garcia could be vetran leadership if nothing else) or disappear. Just made things harder, but not impossible.

In normal circumstances you are correct but with the cash strapped Maloofs as owners, Salmons would soon become our modern day K9. Outlaw is stinking up the place even at his "minor" contract price. The problem is he is on the books for 4 years (this season included).

I still think Hayes has a role to play despite being a bit overpriced! Maybe not this season due to shoulder but still has value in the long term. With broke owners Salmons deal is becoming quickly unmoveable and that could be really troublesome for us going forward. We have a LOT of money invested in our SF position but its still our weakest spot on the floor. On the other hand, Hayes, if he continues to play like he has been the last couple of years will always have a spot on a team looking to add some froncourt toughness for a play-off run.

 

[swisshh]

The hilarious/infuriating thing is that the players Kings fans want to ship out of town are the ones the front office acquired over the off-season and presented with ****-eating grins and words of excitement.

Out of those dumb moves, Hickson might get the most in return. He's like Tyrus THomas 2.0, constantly overvalued potential that never appears. You might get something out of him in trade, especially since his contract is attractive to fans.

 

[Aenadin]

I will be up in arms if the management does not amnesty either salmons/outlaw this off season

problem is we only have one bullet in the chamber - who does it go to?? Salmons due to age for me

 

[Mass]

I will be up in arms if the management does not amnesty either salmons/outlaw this off season

problem is we only have one bullet in the chamber - who does it go to?? Salmons due to age for me

Salmons. We can't waste the amnesty on a 3 mil/yr contract.

 

[ParniValjak]

I will be up in arms if the management does not amnesty either salmons/outlaw this off season

problem is we only have one bullet in the chamber - who does it go to?? Salmons due to age for me

Its a no brainer! Salmons earns more money and is older. You don't amnesty $3 million player. That contract is tradeable even if he does not play well! $3 million is not a lot of money. $8 million is!

 

[jalfa]

I will be up in arms if the management does not amnesty either salmons/outlaw this off season

problem is we only have one bullet in the chamber - who does it go to?? Salmons due to age for me

I thought that way too once, but was corrected in so far as that we can't amnesty Outlaw, since he was acquired after the new cba came into effect. So yeah, Salmons.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

It's bad but not quite as bad as it looks.

They can Amnesty Salmons this summer and if his play doesn’t improve before then, you have to figure they’ll do just that.

Garcia’s contract is a team option in 2013/2014. Or put another way, 2012/2013 will be Garcia’s last year as a King.

Outlaw is looking like a bust but at 3$ million a year, at least it’s not a franchise killing contract. Plus, he’s pretty young (27 I think) so there’s hope that he refinds his game at some point.

Hayes situation is a bit more somber. The way his shoulder dislocated so easily makes it look like it’s going to be a career long problem. And I was reading somewhere that he’s actually had problems with that shoulder since high school. I’m not sure what surgery can do in a case like this but if it’s repairable, best case scenario might be to fix it now and bring him back next year. This season is close to lost now anyways, so might as well do it now.

 

[Elektrik]

While Chuck Hayes might be a bit overpaid, he is by no means unpayable or unmoveable! He is a good veteran whose presence does make us better balanced at least. He is one genuine role player in our starting 5. Doesn't care about scoring but cares about defence and winning. I thought he played well against the Jazz and had a couple of elite moments defensively.

Like I said, while he might be a touch overpaid, he is far from unmoveable to unpayable. He would have have been an outstanding signing for us had we also kept Dalembert. Hayes is one of those guys whose stats do not really represent his true worth to the team. A genuine glue guy and a veteran who has a meticulous preparation and comes to play with the right attitude. Definitely a good presence to have on a young team BUT not as THE answer but as a PART of the answer.

And shoulder injuries are not career ending.

No...but it appears that it can sure disrupt the chemistry of a lineup though. If he is going to hurt is shoulder frequently and constantly have to go on the disabled list every 3-4-6 weeks after playing a few games (or in last nights case, 1 game) them we're kind of fooling ourselves into believing that he can be the player we need him to be. I like Chuck, but his history has shown that he can't stay healthy with his shoulder and as long as that is an issue then he can't be relied upon to be that guy that we need.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

No...but it appears that it can sure disrupt the chemistry of a lineup though. If he is going to hurt is shoulder frequently and constantly have to go on the disabled list every 3-4-6 weeks after playing a few games (or in last nights case, 1 game) them we're kind of fooling ourselves into believing that he can be the player we need him to be. I like Chuck, but his history has shown that he can't stay healthy with his shoulder and as long as that is an issue then he can't be relied upon to be that guy that we need.

Looking at his history, he's played at least 71 games a year in his last five seasons. So it appears that up until now the shoulder hasn't been a major factor in his NBA career. Just hope the Kings didn't get him on the injury that becomes chronic.

 

[pshn80]

Nothing is forever.

 

[CruzDude]

$70 million can get you a lot of talent (- $12 million that Cisco was owed previously, but they could have amnestied him IIRC)

70 million dollars.
*slams head against desk repeatedly*

What All-Star big money player wants to come to Sacramento now? What big money player is worth his money these days and is willing to come to Sacramento?

JJ and Outlaw were worth their money based on their last 1-2 years and they both are under 26. Not stepping up to be 20pt players (or 10 reb a night in JJ's case) is only partially their fault. Two coaches in a month and a half, injuries to legimate starters, compressed screwed up season all around,etc. And as yet no real roles have been established for bench, too early. As I keep saying, be patient, it takes time. I agree tho', Salmons doesn't seem to be working for team sake.

 

[Glenn]

I hate being an outlier but I am rooting for Salmons. The guy used to be able to score. Whether or not the trade was a good one or a bad one is not the issue. I still don't know why he is here but that's not his fault. He is a King and over the years has shown to be a decent defender and a very good scorer. I want at least a fraction of what he used to be to return. The team will benefit. I don't know if people have noticed that he is contributing better. I don't follow his stats closely but he seldom shoots more than 10 times per game. Last night he shot 6 times and got a ration of doo doo on the thread following the game. In fact his stat line was 3-6 fgs, 7 rbds, no assists, and 2 TOs. What was wrong with that? Better put, did that stat line require derision? Maybe by the end of the year, given the putrid collection of bench guys behind him, he will still look like he is necessary and that is a painful thing to contemplate.

The use of amnesty doesn't save the Maloofs money and frankly I think that's the only thing they think of. Well, it might save a few million but still the amnsty idea is for teams with a lot of money willing to spend the cap money freed up and this ownership either isn't eager to spend money on FAs or the FAs just don't want to be here.

We have to unload SFs somehow and trade seems to be the route.

Outlaw I think was acquired as an emergency player as he was a vet, cheap, and could play two positions. His lifetime stats don't indicate any spectacular achievemant. I believe we also needed him to get over the minimum salary but my memory may be foggy. Can't amnesty him. A real waste.

JT is

 

[ParniValjak]

I hate being an outlier but I am rooting for Salmons. The guy used to be able to score. Whether or not the trade was a good one or a bad one is not the issue. I still don't know why he is here but that's not his fault. He is a King and over the years has shown to be a decent defender and a very good scorer. I want at least a fraction of what he used to be to return. The team will benefit. I don't know if people have noticed that he is contributing better. I don't follow his stats closely but he seldom shoots more than 10 times per game. Last night he shot 6 times and got a ration of doo doo on the thread following the game. In fact his stat line was 3-6 fgs, 7 rbds, no assists, and 2 TOs. What was wrong with that? Better put, did that stat line require derision? Maybe by the end of the year, given the putrid collection of bench guys behind him, he will still look like he is necessary and that is a painful thing to contemplate.

The use of amnesty doesn't save the Maloofs money and frankly I think that's the only thing they think of. Well, it might save a few million but still the amnsty idea is for teams with a lot of money willing to spend the cap money freed up and this ownership either isn't eager to spend money on FAs or the FAs just don't want to be here.

We have to unload SFs somehow and trade seems to be the route.

Outlaw I think was acquired as an emergency player as he was a vet, cheap, and could play two positions. His lifetime stats don't indicate any spectacular achievemant. I believe we also needed him to get over the minimum salary but my memory may be foggy. Can't amnesty him. A real waste.

JT is

With Salmons the issue is not so much what he does offensively, though it would help if he could knock down the open 3s. The issue is that he gets killed defensively these days. Opponent's SF have a field day against us and Salmons who once upon a time was a VERY VERY good man defender is not able to stop them. I don't think people are complaining that Salmons is not scoring but its the fact that he is not stopping anyone that is ticking people off. Hayward scored 21 on him on 7-15 shooting. Game before that Gallinari killed him and if you keep going back over the games, his opponent has had the better of him in most games.

No one want Salmons to be a 20ppg player. What we want from him is a defensive stopper and to knock down those open corner 3s that he was hitting at 45% clip last year. If he can do that, we would be pretty happy with his production. As things currently stand he is statistically the worst starter in the NBA. Not one of the, but THE worst starter. Thats a pretty big black mark next to one's name.

 

[Glenn]

I didn't trade for Salmons and I am not the one playing him so much. He's 32 and I doubt is deliberately trying to suck. Last night in the game thread it was like a lynch mob if he inhaled improperly. I left the discussion as I think the anger is misdirected. Perhaps I was confused as to what people were angry about as the hoots and howls came when he missed a shot.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

I didn't trade for Salmons and I am not the one playing him so much. He's 32 and I doubt is deliberately trying to suck. Last night in the game thread it was like a lynch mob if he inhaled improperly. I left the discussion as I think the anger is misdirected. Perhaps I was confused as to what people were angry about as the hoots and howls came when he missed a shot.

Salmons has take Westphal's place as Kings scapegoat. Nobody dare criticize the golden boy Tyreke, much easier to just use Salmons as a punching bag.

 

[ParniValjak]

Salmons has take Westphal's place as Kings scapegoat. Nobody dare criticize the golden boy Tyreke, much easier to just use Salmons as a punching bag.

You want blame Tyreke for global warming and world hunger while you are at it?!

Seriously this obsession with blaming Tyreke for anything and everything is reaching creepy proportions. Is Tyreke inconsistent?! Yes! Do we need him to play at a more consistent high level?! Absolutely! Is Tyreke responsible for Salmons blowing open jumpers?! Don't think so! Is Tyreke responsible for Salmons getting beaten by his man every single game? Most certainly not!

Tyreke is responsible for a lot of things but he sure as hell is not for Salmons' season so far. Salmons has by FAR been the biggest disappointment this season. Once upon a time he was a very good defender and hit his corner 3s at 45% clip. Now he can't do either and it sure as hell is not Tyreke's fault.

 

[BMiller52]

You want blame Tyreke for global warming and world hunger while you are at it?!

Seriously this obsession with blaming Tyreke for anything and everything is reaching creepy proportions. Is Tyreke inconsistent?! Yes! Do we need him to play at a more consistent high level?! Absolutely! Is Tyreke responsible for Salmons blowing open jumpers?! Don't think so! Is Tyreke responsible for Salmons getting beaten by his man every single game? Most certainly not!

Tyreke is responsible for a lot of things but he sure as hell is not for Salmons' season so far. Salmons has by FAR been the biggest disappointment this season. Once upon a time he was a very good defender and hit his corner 3s at 45% clip. Now he can't do either and it sure as hell is not Tyreke's fault.

Tyreke has had his shair of bad games this year and has deserved some of the criticism(I have criticised him already this year), but yeah Salmons has been ten times worse. I don't really get why John still plays other than his contract. I wish we had a real SF, did you guys see how badly Hayward out played him last night? He was freaking good, John was terrible.

 

[Heuge]

Salmons has take Westphal's place as Kings scapegoat. Nobody dare criticize the golden boy Tyreke, much easier to just use Salmons as a punching bag.

Tyreke is averagin 16.5pts. 5 assists 5 rebounds and is steadily improving at the point under Smart. Why the hell would he be a scapegoat (other then blind player hatred), he is playing real well.

Salmons play has been some of the worst starting small forward play this franchise has ever seen. And that's saying a lot.

 

[The_Jamal]

Salmons has take Westphal's place as Kings scapegoat. Nobody dare criticize the golden boy Tyreke, much easier to just use Salmons as a punching bag.

typical. The Tyreke troll defends the worst starter in the league to bash on Tyreke

 

[mac]

typical. The Tyreke troll defends the worst starter in the league to bash on Tyreke

Nah, Rookieoftheday is far from being THE tyreke troll. He may be A Tyreke Troll, but certainly not the worst we have.

 

[SacTownKid]

If you think the situation the Kings are in now is that terrible, then you much have really been burying your head in the sand for the last 4 years because this team finally has hope, talent, and even some nice pieces mixed into it. No, it's probably not a finished product, but while I know potential is a dirty word to some around here, it's what you build on at this stage and I'll take Reke, Cousins, and Thornton as my big 3 and a solid big who in only 20 minutes the other night showed his value to the team and the intangibles he brings on my team any day of the week. Shine it up nice, real nice, and you've got something more than worth it. Just need time, experience, and the right strategy.

 

[SacTownKid]

It's bad but not quite as bad as it looks.

They can Amnesty Salmons this summer and if his play doesn’t improve before then, you have to figure they’ll do just that.

Garcia’s contract is a team option in 2013/2014. Or put another way, 2012/2013 will be Garcia’s last year as a King.

Outlaw is looking like a bust but at 3$ million a year, at least it’s not a franchise killing contract. Plus, he’s pretty young (27 I think) so there’s hope that he refinds his game at some point.

Hayes situation is a bit more somber. The way his shoulder dislocated so easily makes it look like it’s going to be a career long problem. And I was reading somewhere that he’s actually had problems with that shoulder since high school. I’m not sure what surgery can do in a case like this but if it’s repairable, best case scenario might be to fix it now and bring him back next year. This season is close to lost now anyways, so might as well do it now.

Probably not if he has it operated on at some point. Dwyane Wade had the same problems back in 07 where his shoulder kept seperating and it got to the point where he tore his labrum. Had surgery and not a problem since. I don't know what the problem with Hayes shoulder is exactly but my guess is that it's a long term shoulder problem that he never had surgery on to correct it and instead decided for rehab and settling for pain over time lost. I'm sure it's gotten worse as of late but most shoulder problems are quite correctable. If he gets it done before tearing anything he would probably only be down for about 8-10 weeks. If he tears his labrum he's looking at 4-6 months. It may be already torn and he wants to just gut through it, some do that, but he'll have to deal with the pain and likelihood of recurrence of dislocation.

 

[ParniValjak]

Probably not if he has it operated on at some point. Dwyane Wade had the same problems back in 07 where his shoulder kept seperating and it got to the point where he tore his labrum. Had surgery and not a problem since. I don't know what the problem with Hayes shoulder is exactly but my guess is that it's a long term shoulder problem that he never had surgery on to correct it and instead decided for rehab and settling for pain over time lost. I'm sure it's gotten worse as of late but most shoulder problems are quite correctable. If he gets it done before tearing anything he would probably only be down for about 8-10 weeks. If he tears his labrum he's looking at 4-6 months. It may be already torn and he wants to just gut through it, some do that, but he'll have to deal with the pain and likelihood of recurrence of dislocation.

Its laughable that people are already calling it a possible career ending injury. There are more careers ruined by knee injuries in sport than there are with shoulders and we are talking about some of the sports that are a lot more physical and where the shoulder gets a heck of a lot more work out and crash and bash. Worst case scenario, Hayes needs a total shoulder reconstruction and he is out of action 4-6 months and that is the absolute worst case scenario. If he comes back early from that and re-does it, its another 4-6 months and he is good to go.

Shoulder joints are actually stronger after the reconstruction than they are naturally.

 

[Prince_XY]

Petrie should be fired for allowing or failing to prevent these bad off-season moves that messed-up the line-up. To me, the moves/spending that happened were as if it was meant to sabotage the franchise.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Nah, Rookieoftheday is far from being THE tyreke troll. He may be A Tyreke Troll, but certainly not the worst we have.

Implying that anyone with a dissenting view on Tyreke must be a troll. y'all have a different definition of troll than I do. To me a troll is one who does one or both of the following. A, posts things with the sole intent of getting negative reactions. B, posts things that they don't even believe themselves just to get reaction. I do neither.