serbiangoat
Starter
Jonas was not a starting C for the past 10 plus years by accident, super impactful in short bursts. Keegan and Ellis really did great both ends but then starting 5 is still trash despite the skills
[Game] 58/82: Sacramento Kings @ Utah Jazz, 26 FEB 2025, 6pm PT/9pm ET
- Thread starter QWERTYLICIOUS
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GWD
Bench
C'mon guys/gals. Only six pages of comments for a crucial game that was to keep play-off hopes alive is concerning for a usually active fan base. But maybe it is explainable.
Is it because the same ol' scenario often plays out every game? Just cut/paste comments from previous games. To wit:
The starters look disjointed and defenseless, with pitiful shooting and turnovers at the outset. Defensive players rotate in and steady the ship. Someone randomly gets their shooting eye and the rest of the team watches the show. The shooter goes cold and the team realizes that they actually have to do something to contribute. The opponent goes on a run. Another King makes a few baskets and Kings win or nobody successfully takes over and the King lose.
This is the pattern against mediocre or sub-par teams. It is not likely to be successful against strong and well-coached opponents. The upcoming schedule of challenging games will test the mettle of Coach Christie and the players. Will meaningful changes be made to strengthen the performance? Will the team be up to it? Perhaps the Kings will play games worthy of 28+ pages of comments. We can hope.
Is it because the same ol' scenario often plays out every game? Just cut/paste comments from previous games. To wit:
The starters look disjointed and defenseless, with pitiful shooting and turnovers at the outset. Defensive players rotate in and steady the ship. Someone randomly gets their shooting eye and the rest of the team watches the show. The shooter goes cold and the team realizes that they actually have to do something to contribute. The opponent goes on a run. Another King makes a few baskets and Kings win or nobody successfully takes over and the King lose.
This is the pattern against mediocre or sub-par teams. It is not likely to be successful against strong and well-coached opponents. The upcoming schedule of challenging games will test the mettle of Coach Christie and the players. Will meaningful changes be made to strengthen the performance? Will the team be up to it? Perhaps the Kings will play games worthy of 28+ pages of comments. We can hope.
I had a feeling his 3pt% would plummet as the lead ball handler. I don't know the stats but the eye test tells me that he is a much better catch and shoot shooter than he is an off the dribble shooter. He's an even worse step back and rip it shooter. Might as well just start getting back on defense any time he attempts a step back 3 because it's not going in. He's shooting 27% the last 20 games or so. He's basically playing like Charlotte Monk with better passing.
Jdbraver137
Bench
To be fair he has a whole new role. The other guys are also still learning to play together. At least that’s how I can write off the TO for now.
I think teams are really zeroed in on the Sabonis pick and roll with Monk as well. Probably why Monk's assists are down and Sabonis has looked rather pedestrian lately.
On another topic, hopefully Christie makes a lineup change here soon. Keon really needs to be starting. This starting unit just isn't getting it done. They seem to be either just merely keeping pace or even worse than some of the worst teams in the league. Not only are these the worst teams in the league, but they're also struck by injuries with some of their best players out.
I don't know the stats here either but it seems like as soon as the first substitutions are made and we start getting the bench players mingled in with the starters, that's when the Kings start going. This has to be glaringly obvious to Doug. It's going to be more difficult with LaVine getting going but I really think he needs to come off the bench since he can't play PG. He can still get the same minutes but they need to be staggered with other players because Monk/LaVine/DDR/Keegan/Sabonis just isn't cutting it.
bball_nomad
Bench
Not LaVine but DDR should come of the bench. The only thing that prevent this from happening is DDR's ego. MB asked if DDR would be OK with that - answer was no. Monk, Zach, Domas, Keegan and Ellis are all over the court all the time. DDR just can't keep up with them.
As a result, what do we have? Starting 5 will not change. Two options are now available: starting 5 have to get their sh*t together and early subs by the DC.
Padrino
All-Star
Though I agree about LaVine, at this point I'd be more open to the Kings moving Monk back to the bench and starting LaVine/Ellis in the backcourt. I don't really buy LaVine as a functional PG, but I think the Kings need his shooting in the starting lineup. And they also just need Ellis to start. His impact is so strikingly obvious. The Kings are better when he and Keegan share the court.
It's not going to appreciably harm the Kings play-in chances to take a swing on LaVine at PG (they're already more turnover prone in the wake of the Fox trade), and if Keon's impact is as large as many of us think, it could be the lineup change that keeps them in the hunt for the 6th seed. Alternatively, I'm open to shifting DDR to the bench and starting Monk/Ellis/LaVine. I really don't love LaVine at SF, but again, are the Kings worse with either of these changes?
Doug needs to work with him on a fast break conversion, it's getting a bit ridiculous, a fast break should be converted at a high percentage, Kings turn it into a fast break for another team, Malik being the main culprit a lot of times
Those are two that will get a coach fired and they were back to back, but of the Christie era it would be hard to top Golden State even against a bad team. These posts were made right as I went to go pickup TJ from school and his driver's ed class and so I wasn't on the board but I never really felt this game was going to go their way even when they cut it to a one possession game. Much like the game on Monday we answered right back and made it a no doubter. Obviously he's not undefeated but that foreboding sense of a game slipping away hasn't really existed under Christie. It's just our night or it isn't thus far, and that's usually evident 4 minutes into the 2nd quarter or whenever the full rotation has run through one cycle.
I really wonder why it took so long to get Jonas. He didn't cost much. He was an obvious target while we were chasing "bigs" that play small or wasting time with guys like Duarte. Could we not have tried to send the Davion/Sasha package out in exchange for him and still landed DeMar?
Suddenly if Domas gets in foul trouble or is just not having a night we aren't cooked and the team is just so much better off not worrying about a ref job turning into a -20 3rd quarter.
He played some, frankly he is still a bit too wild to be getting major minutes. But I'm glad he's here and should correct that as he acclimates to the club and gets more PT.
Srzly
G-League
Agree. I’m actually not convinced there is an overall drop off going from Domas to JV. If we could have had him this entire time I feel confident our record is at least a few games better.
Happy about the other guys we brought in (Fultz and Jake) too. They are all upgrades over what we’ve had. Lyles was our 2nd guy off the bench every game after Keon and now be hardly plays (rightfully so). We have needed this depth badly. Just wish we could have had it sooner.
I'll take it as a sign that Monte was hampered by other factors than his own obsession to play small.
My only hesitation here is how turnover prone both LaVine and Ellis are. Yeah we'd still have DDR and Sabonis out there doing some of the handling but their poor handles lead me to believe that we could even see a rise in turnovers with them starting.
Part of the reason why I suggested moving LaVine to the bench is we had some success with Ellis in the starting lineup with our other regular starters. It seems like the turnovers, stagnant offense and poor defense started as soon as LaVine entered the starting lineup. Not that he's at fault for all of it but the other guys have a good rapport and some history together. It seems to me like LaVine gets going when he's not playing with the starters and he seems to put up points in short order when he has some bench guys with him.
I honestly think a lot of this is you're trying to cram 4 huge USG players together...that haven't had an off-season/training camp to work out any of the kinks. Look how long it took for DDR to really get integrated (and he sort of still didn't) with our core with Fox/Domas/Monk.
LaVine gets freed up when he runs the bench unit because there aren't a bunch of guys "toes" he's stepping on. There's a clear offensive hierarchy and guys aren't just taking turns getting shots up. It's hard to build chemistry/rhythm because we're just rotating through our top 4 guys getting their looks. All while just basically forcing Keegan (who showed last night that he can have some offensive ceiling) into whatever USG crumbs are left over.
We've all beat this into the ground, but Keon also really does balance the offense because he's not someone who HAS to go take 10 shots to be valuable. He's had games where he takes 6 shots, but he's the most important and impactful player on the court. Monk/DDR/LaVine's primary value is scoring the ball. They do other stuff of course at a high level, but none of them are near the same guy if they were relegated to 5-6 shots a game.
Monk-LaVine-DDR-Keegan-Domas
157 minutes
116.1 ORtg
124 DRtg
-7.1 Net
Keon-LaVine-DDR-Keegan-Domas
49 minutes
127.2 ORtg
109.7 DRtg
+17.5 Net
It's like, what are we doing here? Obviously we're dealing with tiny sample sizes, but it's so clear how Keon balances the Kings on both sides of the ball. You for sure might run into some ball-handling/turnover concerns, but at least you give yourself a chance to compete defensively and you let a proper offensive hierarchy take place to give these guys a chance to develop some rhythm and chemistry. The starters STILL just look so disjointed and like they have no clue how to feed everyone their touches... mainly because there's not really a way to do so.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
And Keon is also fitting in because he's just going to space and wait. Christie has started to run 3 guard lineups with Monk, Keon, and LaVine and so far it looked pretty good. That was against a smaller more guard style team in Utah though. The numbers for Monk and Keon as a duo are starting to collapse but against smaller teams it doesn't appear to be a major issue.
SacTownKid
Hall of Famer
Monk and Keon with the starters has by the numbers been awful since Christie took over. Bigger teams are starting to pound them. LaVine has been a major stopgap for Christie when teams have started to do it. LaVine is now finding Domas up top when things get wonky or teams double him. That will likely be his safety valve from now on when pressure comes.
Joshyjosh31
Starter
I don't think we fall out of the play-in, but I think if you staggered and played this roster properly, we'd have a real shot at winning a playoff series. As things are currently playing out, nope, I don't see it.
Yeah, Keon's found a really nice groove as an elite spacer, but someone who's capable of making the right read and he'll move the ball. If it's open, he'll pop, if not, he'll keep the ball moving. That's valuable for offensive cohesion in itself.
ShastaKingsFan
All-Star
High iQ. He recognizes the offensive talent around him and always looks to make the right play for the team
NewArena
All-Star
The chemistry really is growing on a nightly basis. His game with Sabonis in particular, is a really nice development.
NewArena
All-Star
I don’t think we had the assets or salary that made sense before making the Fox trade. Trading Lyles or something would’ve hurt us a bit IMO
bball_nomad
Bench
Zach is trying and willing, but as of now it's still a very painful and clumsy learning process. Good thing - both are elite NBA starters and it's just the matter of time till they will figure it out. The same applies to Kings numerous botched fast breaks per game. Instead of easy buckets - ball flies back to another end of the floor and the score changes to our opponent's favor. Ouch
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