[Game] 27/82: Kings vs. Nuggets 16 DEC 2024 7pm PT/10pm ET

[iowamcnabb]

Colby is playing hard but effort will eventually plateau.

Yeh it might but tonight’s performance was great. What he did against Lauri was telling. Maybe he is just another energizer that can come in for 5-10 minutes to slow down a player or it’s possible he gets moved as a sweetener in a deadline trade.

 

[hrdboild]

Also since many wrote about the refs, I think they were ok tonight, Denver was complaining also the whole time for many "contacts" close to the basket that weren't given as fouls. Refs "let them play" the whole match, BUT those 2 (cause the 3rd was without a doubt) quick fouls against us in the beginning of the last quarter made no sense regarding the way they were not calling them in the 3 previous quarters from both sides.

The only significant call in particular that I had an issue with was the free throws Jokic got when Fox was switched onto him midway through the 4th. Jokic shoved Fox back a couple times and initiated all of the contact (as he had been all night) and got the MVP call there which is lame in any circumstance but it's especially lame when it's against Fox who is nearly a foot shorter and has to get mugged to earn free throws. I liked that the refs were letting them play for the most part. The two quick off the ball fouls on the Kings early in the 4th that you mentioned were also annoying since they meant we had to play conservative on defense for most of the quarter to avoid the penalty. But this is one game where I wouldn't point the finger at the officiating as a reason why the Kings lost. I wish more games were called this way.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I also blame Kayte for this loss, she crowned Keon with the DPog with several minutes remaining

 

[NewArena]

I’d love to know what we did in a past life to have such a multitude of heartbreaking losses.

 

[iowamcnabb]

42 minutes for Sabonis tonight. We need to figure that out quick.

 

[coolhandluke]

I’d love to know what we did in a past life to have such a multitude of heartbreaking losses.

We're known as the Kardiac Kings for a reason. What is the time limit on the bad juju from the Indian burial grounds under Arco Arena? It should have worn off by now.

 

[Jones2006]

42 minutes for Sabonis tonight. We need to figure that out quick.

I gave up at this point hoping for the coaching staff to limit starters minutes and play the bench more … they don’t. Alex Len was solid last year and even looked good in preseason, yet he’s never had much if a chance this year to get consistent run. And now that he’s had dnp’s for a few weeks, he looks out of rhythm and rusty as expected. Yet won’t get a chance to shake any of it off. The “weak bench” is totally a self-fulfilling prophecy by the coaching staff in my opinion. If they wanted a strong bench they would have played some constant unit from game 1 but they chose not to.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I gave up at this point hoping for the coaching staff to limit starters minutes and play the bench more … they don’t. Alex Len was solid last year and even looked good in preseason, yet he’s never had much if a chance this year to get consistent run. And now that he’s had dnp’s for a few weeks, he looks out of rhythm and rusty as expected. Yet won’t get a chance to shake any of it off. The “weak bench” is totally a self-fulfilling prophecy by the coaching staff in my opinion. If they wanted a strong bench they would have played some constant unit from game 1 but they chose not to.

I thought Len was awesome the last 2 years but I don’t think he has played very well this season even when he was getting more consistent minutes. I think he is great as a 3rd big. In my opinion we need another center that can either be a defensive switchable stud or someone that is a bit better offensively. I thought it would be Lyles last year but Brown has never committed to that

 

[NewArena]

We're known as the Kardiac Kings for a reason. What is the time limit on the bad juju from the Indian burial grounds under Arco Arena? It should have worn off by now.

You would think

 

[ShastaKingsFan]

I thought Len was awesome the last 2 years but I don’t think he has played very well this season even when he was getting more consistent minutes. I think he is great as a 3rd big. In my opinion we need another center that can either be a defensive switchable stud or someone that is a bit better offensively. I thought it would be Lyles last year but Brown has never committed to that

Len is the same player he's always been. He's not perfect (what backup 7 footer is?), but is fully capable of doing what he did the last two seasons

 

[iowamcnabb]

Len is the same player he's always been. He's not perfect (what backup 7 footer is?), but is fully capable of doing what he did the last two seasons

I’ve been a big fan of his and thought he was near elite as a rim protector last season but I feel like that hasn’t been the same. Part of it might be that the new defensive philosophy has emphasized protecting the paint more which we had been really good at prior to tonight. It’s possible his main skill is not quite as important as it was before. The rest of his game, rebounding, touch on offense, passing etc are all not super great. Can be good at screening but gets called for a lot of moving violations. IMO we need a more trustworthy option behind Domas and I’m not sure we have that guy on the roster (at least not for this year.) I’m a big fan of IG but he doesn’t feel ready. He needs to develop on the defensive end a good amount before Brown will trust him.

 

[SacTownKid]

I’ve been a big fan of his and thought he was near elite as a rim protector last season but I feel like that hasn’t been the same. Part of it might be that the new defensive philosophy has emphasized protecting the paint more which we had been really good at prior to tonight. It’s possible his main skill is not quite as important as it was before. The rest of his game, rebounding, touch on offense, passing etc are all not super great. Can be good at screening but gets called for a lot of moving violations. IMO we need a more trustworthy option behind Domas and I’m not sure we have that guy on the roster (at least not for this year.) I’m a big fan of IG but he doesn’t feel ready. He needs to develop on the defensive end a good amount before Brown will trust him.

I don't know if much has actually changed in regards to Len. For whatever reason Brown has never played Len in all games, nor has he given him more than 9.3 mpg which was a high for him last season. The thing hurting Len most likely is his inability to play next to Domas. Even when Brown was playing McGee he got roughly the same minutes as Len. If you are playing behind Domas, you're going to get about 7-9 minutes tops and play about half the games you're available for. Probably makes it a wise move not to invest heavily in a 1 position backup C anytime soon.

 

[serbiangoat]

42 minutes for Sabonis tonight. We need to figure that out quick.

Paul Reed, not sure why Isaac Jones was not matched up with Gordon who was destroying DDR one on one (no slight AG is a bull and much bigger).

 

[Caccia]

Yup. Fox should have had it but oh well - Monk completely stopped looking for his shot and that didn’t help us.

When he passed up an open three after shooting 50% on the night, that was uncharacteristic. It may be that Mike Brown wanted a shot closer to the basket right at that moment. If not, the coaches will let him know, for sure.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

I gave up at this point hoping for the coaching staff to limit starters minutes and play the bench more … they don’t. Alex Len was solid last year and even looked good in preseason, yet he’s never had much if a chance this year to get consistent run. And now that he’s had dnp’s for a few weeks, he looks out of rhythm and rusty as expected. Yet won’t get a chance to shake any of it off. The “weak bench” is totally a self-fulfilling prophecy by the coaching staff in my opinion. If they wanted a strong bench they would have played some constant unit from game 1 but they chose not to.

Same with Jones he was looking promising then gets benched or plays two minutes let them play though mistakes

 

[joemama]

Is Carter taking Keon minutes this season? Trying to picture how this is going to unfold

Just like pretty much everyone outside of Fox, Monk, Keegs, Sabonis, and DDR.
Wildly sporadic minute distribution that varies immensly game to game.

 

[joemama]

or if he looks real good, then they will "have to" trade Keon, who is probably the best value contract in the league? Could be a situation

I sure hope Ellis is not moved.
Keegan and Ellis are game-changers on defense.

 

[joemama]

I think moving on, at least short term the Kings guard core is Fox, Monk, Carter, and Keon. That's more than enough even if Carter doesn't play much in 3 guard lineups. The reality even before Carter was drafted was this is a guard team. It has been for some time. Now, the only piece that actually truly makes it work is that Carter guy. If he lives up to his potential, he's pushing everyone out of his way not named Fox. If not, he's the role guy doing what you saw Colby do tonight but with elite athletica bility and defensive skill rather than just effort. Credit to Colby for the effort though.

Colby had some good plays last night, especially defending Murray. He did however fall over a few times. It's like his mind is going too fast for him.

 

[Srzly]

I thought this was Sabonis’s best overall performance of the season.

Some of the other guys just looked a bit lethargic out there at times, but Sabonis was locked in.

The tough part of this loss is that we had a golden opportunity to win it and fumbled it away. Let’s just hope the team doesn’t lose momentum from this.

 

[Jones2006]

On the Len discussion - I disagree he’s been worse this year than past seasons, I would contribute any reduction in #’s to simply statistical variance than he’s a worse player. He’s a 12 year vet, he’s not going to suddenly become a worse player right now. In fact he looked real good physically in the preseason, athletic, moving well, etc - he looks a bit slower now due to him getting so many dnp’s.

And the whole bench including Len looked a bit out of sorts the 1st couple weeks partly because Brown was staggering minutes to play DeRozan with them. There was a little adjustment period I think but Brown is ADhd with his rotations and doesn’t stick with anything. I don’t have the minutes in front of me but Len played less than 30-40 minutes TOTAL I think before Brown took him in and out of the rotation. He didn’t give him much of a chance to get into any sort of rhythm. Last year Len was used to doing dribble hand offs / picks with Fox or Monk with shooters including Lyles spreading the floor. Offensively he was able to function pretty well - of course when you throw in a guy like DeRozan in the midrange that’s going to muck things up for a guy like Len or any non floor spacing center. But Brown didn’t honor this adjustment period in my opinion.

He’s done this with practically every bench player. They all seem “inconsistent” because Brown is inconsistently playing them & none of them have any rhythm. Saw this with Keon Ellis too, Playa good couple games - then benched a couple games …

He just doesn’t trust the bench but like I said it’s a cycle - you can not trust them if they don’t trust you so-to speak (they can’t get into any rhythm).

 

[hrdboild]

On the Len discussion - I disagree he’s been worse this year than past seasons, I would contribute any reduction in #’s to simply statistical variance than he’s a worse player. He’s a 12 year vet, he’s not going to suddenly become a worse player right now. In fact he looked real good physically in the preseason, athletic, moving well, etc - he looks a bit slower now due to him getting so many dnp’s.

And the whole bench including Len looked a bit out of sorts the 1st couple weeks partly because Brown was staggering minutes to play DeRozan with them. There was a little adjustment period I think but Brown is ADhd with his rotations and doesn’t stick with anything. I don’t have the minutes in front of me but Len played less than 30-40 minutes TOTAL I think before Brown took him in and out of the rotation. He didn’t give him much of a chance to get into any sort of rhythm. Last year Len was used to doing dribble hand offs / picks with Fox or Monk with shooters including Lyles spreading the floor. Offensively he was able to function pretty well - of course when you throw in a guy like DeRozan in the midrange that’s going to muck things up for a guy like Len or any non floor spacing center. But Brown didn’t honor this adjustment period in my opinion.

He’s done this with practically every bench player. They all seem “inconsistent” because Brown is inconsistently playing them & none of them have any rhythm. Saw this with Keon Ellis too, Playa good couple games - then benched a couple games …

He just doesn’t trust the bench but like I said it’s a cycle - you can not trust them if they don’t trust you so-to speak (they can’t get into any rhythm).

Some of this is a matter of perspective. There are 15 players on the roster... not all of them are going to play every game. Fox and Murray leading the league in minutes played does indicate a lack of trust in the bench unit to a certain extent but as to guys getting randomly "benched", I don't think that's the right term for Coach Brown's strategy for managing the roster. He could play the same 9 or 10 players every game and ignore the rest but instead he's trying to get those end of the bench guys on the floor every other week or so. And that means randomly removing one or two of the top 9-10 guys every other week or so. I think he's doing this to get multiple combinations of players on the floor together and keep everyone engaged. That way when we get to the last month of the season and (hopefully) the playoffs, there theoretically shouldn't be any player rotation circumstance we're stepping into for the first time.

 

[Joshyjosh31]

https://x.com/justesbaraheni/status/1868895201043071473?s=46&t=XHl6MkQyOm3Zbk1mBBrooA

https://x.com/praneel_c/status/1868922716285550675?s=46&t=XHl6MkQyOm3Zbk1mBBrooA

 

[dude12]

Never understood the hand wringing over some end of bench guys like Len. Solid journeyman center who will play depending on matchups and what helps the team. Has some things he does solidly, has some big shortcomings as well. It’s why he’s been in the league this long but he’s a end of bench guy, nothing more.

Len was terrible in his short stint last night. 2 super quick fouls and probably should have had a third in under a minute.
Isaac Jones also was out of sorts against the Denver offense.
I have no problem with how Brown uses the bench and players.

 

[twslam07]

We’re 11th in NetRTG yet we have the 19th best record in the league…

It’s crazy how many close games we are losing especially when we’re supposed to have two of the NBA’s best closers.

 

[ESP47]

I've never in my life seen so many blocked shots and deflected balls go right back into the opponents hands for easy buckets. Nuggets must have scored 15-18 points on lucky gifts alone. It was like they were the Kansas City Chiefs last night.

 

[BenchMob]

I’ve been a big fan of his and thought he was near elite as a rim protector last season but I feel like that hasn’t been the same. Part of it might be that the new defensive philosophy has emphasized protecting the paint more which we had been really good at prior to tonight. It’s possible his main skill is not quite as important as it was before. The rest of his game, rebounding, touch on offense, passing etc are all not super great. Can be good at screening but gets called for a lot of moving violations. IMO we need a more trustworthy option behind Domas and I’m not sure we have that guy on the roster (at least not for this year.) I’m a big fan of IG but he doesn’t feel ready. He needs to develop on the defensive end a good amount before Brown will trust him.

Jonas Val would be a perfect backup and price point, assuming he would be OK for a backup role

 

[iowamcnabb]

Paul Reed, not sure why Isaac Jones was not matched up with Gordon who was destroying DDR one on one (no slight AG is a bull and much bigger).

Paul re-signed with Detroit. I guess it was just cap management

 

[hrdboild]

I also blame Kayte for this loss, she crowned Keon with the DPog with several minutes remaining

I almost brought this up too but knew better than to verbalize it. And also knew that this is a dumb superstition and doesn't change anything. And yet I decided better safe than sorry.

 

[iowamcnabb]

I almost brought this up too but knew better than to verbalize it. And also knew that this is a dumb superstition and doesn't change anything. And yet I decided better safe than sorry.

superstition is the Pascal’s wager of sports haha

 

[The_Jamal]

Never understood the hand wringing over some end of bench guys like Len. Solid journeyman center who will play depending on matchups and what helps the team. Has some things he does solidly, has some big shortcomings as well. It’s why he’s been in the league this long but he’s a end of bench guy, nothing more.

Len was terrible in his short stint last night. 2 super quick fouls and probably should have had a third in under a minute.
Isaac Jones also was out of sorts against the Denver offense.
I have no problem with how Brown uses the bench and players.

Be careful, or the Len contingent is going to come after you.

But could not agree more. Len is an excellent guy to have as your 3rd C, end of bench depth. Is a pro's pro, seems like he's a great locker room guy. Can give you a good rotation stint here or there. But he's just not someone who you should be relying on for consistent rotation minutes every game.