2009 Draft

#31
I'm not buying Vaughn's game tonight until she follows it up with a consistent string of games like this. What I sorta do like about her, which I kinda think is missing as long as DeMya has been out is the nastiness Vaughn has. When she was in the bay area she single elbowedly took out technically three players (she clipped Ogwumike twice so I only count her once). I don't like dirty players, but having a "physical presence" in the paint might not suck.
I was pleasantly suprised by Kia tonight. She brought it and down the stretch tried to single handedly carry her team (was Prince even there? ;)) Without a doubt she would be a lottery pick if this performance was consistent, however I don't even remember her at all in her other televised games this season. Maybe with her substandard season so far and a drop in people's expectations, she has less pressure to perform and can just play without thinking about it.
 
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#32
kia vaughn was an animal last night ... at least for one night, she was awesome ...

it's tough to evaluate these youngsters, they're young, they're changeable ... and then there's the coaching factor -- good, or bad ---

if the can do it once, it's at least possible they could do it again ... ; )
 
#33
To say is 2007's is better or worse than 2009's draft is like saying the Hindenbergh is a better/worse mode of travel than the Titanic. Most of the players from 2007 are considered journey(wo)men/roleplayers in the league now and I'd suspect that beyond Harding, Jackson and perhaps Gruda, Davenport and Little, few of the rest of those from that draft who were still on a W roster somewhere last year will even have jobs when camps break in May and those making rosters will not be impact players.

Looking @ 2009, if you consider that there are less jobs available, few of this year's first rounders will have an opportunity to have an impact because until the rosters expand back, they're going to be in the position of fighting the next draft class(es) to keep their jobs. So many of the players in this draft have questions, certainly the ones not projected to fall in the lottery pick range. I place even less odds on anybody drafted after the first round. For that alone, I would place this year's draft a notch below 07, which definitely looks bad looking back at it now.

This draft will not be graded on the basis of two players at the top, it will be graded on how the rest of the first round fares and I think this class starts off with the disadvantage of having several jobs slashed before they even enter the market.

I hope Kia channels last night for the rest of Rutgers games. I agree that likely what fueled her last night was it being her final home game and being the last team standing between UConn and a perfect regular season. She's better than mediocre when she wants to be and she appeared to have put a lot of work into building a pro body in her offseason. I was talking to someone after their game against Cal and they compared her to Taj M-F. That persona definitely was on display last night.

Man, I felt bad for Prince, in the last 10 minutes of that game she couldn't buy a basket. If those half dozen shots of hers that popped back out of the basket instead of going down had gone down during that span, Rutgers steals that game with the way Vaughn was owning the paint and glass. Oh, and if their freshmen (yes you redshirt freshman Rushdan) would have stopped doing stupid stuff with the ball that game could have ended differently too. Ugh.
 
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#34
Oh, and if their freshmen (yes you redshirt freshman Rushdan) would have stopped doing stupid stuff with the ball that game could have ended differently too. Ugh.
That was really frustrating. Just seeing Rutgers push and fight to get back in the game and then having mistakes trigger more mistakes. I didn't keep track, but it seemed like Sykes traveled 3 times within 5 minutes. Maybe as a coach you let that go once, but that many times is inexcusable. Rushdan definitely has a lot to learn, but I believe she is the one who just got up there for some rebounds, not bad for a point guard.
 
#35
You don't think Courtney or Angel will be better than Harding, Little, Jackson, who else is decent in the 07 draft? Oh yeah, theres Gruda (who I think can develop into something special).
I don't think one can judge a draft by the first one or two picks. Keep in mind that Harding, despite her pro troubles, finished college as the Naismith POY, the National Defensive POY, the Frances Pomeroy Naismith winner, and a USA Basketball Senior NT personnel pool member. Armintie Price (#3 Sky) did lead guards in rebounding as a rookie. Who knows what to expect from McCoughtry and Paris? Certainly Angel won't average more than low double figures as a rookie while Courtney could end up as Davenport v. 2.0 (doubt it, but it could happen).

Either way, I don't Zelleous or anyone will solve our problems. We need a true all-star/superstar to compete in this league.
I agree with this, but you take what you can get at this point. When we didn't even try to acquire Beard midseason last year, it pretty much signaled to me that this team isn't thinking big-time.
 
#36
[TV Alert] Arm Chair Scouts Guide to the Conference Tourneys

Get your pencils sharpened if you want to look at some peeps mentioned here in this thread. If you've been watching all along (unlike me damnit while I was off learning life lessons and such ;)) you may already have seen some of them. If not, you may have missed a few but here who is coming up. If you have folks you're watching, share your players schedule in this thread.

Preliminary listing for first weekend of conference tournaments

Saturday, March 7

FSN-ACC Conference Tournament Semi-Finals

10am PST - Maryland vs North Carolina
(Kristi Toliver, Marissa Coleman, Rashanda McCants)
12:30pm PST Duke vs Florida St (Chante Black)

FSN - Pac-10 Regular Season Finale
12:30pm PST-Arizona St @ Stanford (Briann January)

FSN-South - SEC Tournament Semi-Finals

2:30pm PST - Auburn vs Tennessee (DeWanna Bonner)

BigTenNetwork - Conference Tournament Semi-Finals
3pm PST - Purdue (Lindsay Wisdom-Hylton)

BigEast.Org (web only) - Conference Tournament Second Round

3pm PST - Rutgers vs Seton Hall (Kia Vaughn)


Sunday, March 8

ESPNU - Big East Tournament Quarter Finals
11am PDT- UConn (Renee Montgomery)
3pm PDT - Louisville (Angel McCoughtry)
5pm PDT - Pittsburgh (Shavonte Zellous)

Rest of the schedule TBD
 
#37
I was impressed with Marissa Coleman today (played four different positions). Still don't think she'll be available with our pick, but there's always a chance.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#38
I was impressed with Marissa Coleman today (played four different positions). Still don't think she'll be available with our pick, but there's always a chance.

I liked her....a lot...today. She keeps this up, she will move up in the draft for sure. I will hold out hope for this player, however. Right now, she has moved to the top of my list.
 
#39
Huh...I thought after reading this I was gonna have to do this :mad: because I wasn't able to see this due to a prior commitment. But whaddaya know...I apparently made it home in time to see that a regional sports channel is replaying the Maryland/UNC game right now. :)
 
#40
I liked her....a lot...today. She keeps this up, she will move up in the draft for sure. I will hold out hope for this player, however. Right now, she has moved to the top of my list.
She's near the top of my list in terms of players we have a chance in heck of drafting. I have her tied for third with DeWanna Bonner and behind Angel McCoughtry (#1) and Courtney Paris (#2) on the big board. I'm holding out hope that Zierden is still in love with Toliver (who, to my surprise, wound up winning ACC POY) at #4 and that Taurasi personally requests Montgomery at #5 so that we can choose between Zellous, Coleman, A.Paris, etc.
 

6th

Homer Fan Since 1985
#41
ACC Tournament Final

Watch Maryland take on Duke at 10:00 a.m. PT on FSN (Sunday 3/8). I think this will be a good one.

Don't forget to set your clocks ahead tonight or you'll miss the 1st hour of this game. :D
 
#42
I don't see Coleman dropping out of lottery range, if that top 3 holds to form.

I thought I had a scenario where she did, but I can't find where I put it...I think I had another big or two going in the top 6 at one time...I think I thought both Ashleys might go early. I was at the Cal/ASU game on Thurs and a coach that drafts before the Monarchs was there, so an Ashley going ahead of the Ms pick could conceivably happen.

I'm cool with "settling" for Zellous instead. However, as I typed that I got this lineup in my head...if I had a rotation with Coleman at the 4 and Powell at the 3 and Lawson running point with maybe going small at the 5 with Brunson and pick whoever at the 2, shoot, go Maiga or something just to get a slasher in there. That might suck to have to defend on the perimeter. A defender would have to come out on both Coleman and Powell and that would give Maiga space to slash and Brunson clean up any crap on the glass and put it back. Coleman and Powell pass well, so they could set up Brunson or Maiga. And well, Kara could shoot it if she got bored with all her options.


Having to chose between her or Zellous is just unfair now innit? ;) Add a shooter with quickness and athleticism or a big body who can play inside and outside? Life sucks sometimes...;)
 
#44
Sunday, March 8

ESPNU - Big East Tournament Quarter Finals
11am PDT- UConn (Renee Montgomery)
3pm PDT - Louisville vs Rutgers (Angel McCoughtry, Kia Vaughn)
5pm PDT - Pittsburgh (Shavonte Zellous)

ESPN2 - BigTen Tournament Final
2:30pm PDT - Ohio State vs Purdue (Lindsay Wisdom-Hylton)

ESPN2 - SEC Tournament Final

3:30pm PDT - Auburn vs Vanderbilt (DeWanna Bonner)
 
#45
I guess we'll be picking between Toliver (ugh), Zellous (*fingers crossed*), A.Paris (meh), etc., because Coleman and Bonner AREN'T going to fall to us. How absurd has Marissa Coleman become? Not only did she get cheated out of ACC POY, she probably got cheated out of the Lieberman award. Seriously, she's the best PG on her team and probably the best in the ACC. Oh, and she's a natural SF. ;)

If I sound like a cheerleader, maybe I am. Coleman's game has changed so dramatically as a senior that it's going to really suck to see her end up in Chicago or Washington.
 
#46
Coleman works on her game...a lot. Not too surprising that she's had the season she's had. What also changed was her role, she's had to score more and rebound more this year because Langhorne is gone. I think Harper being gone is a factor too, but I think if Harp were still there with Coleman, Coleman still would have put up the numbers she's been putting up because Langhorne did more in the paint that Coleman can do as well.

Entertaining game from her today nonetheless, especially after Duke started to try to get in her head. I thought it was going to work for a while until she settled down emotionally and let her game do the talking later in the 2nd half.

I'm totally cool with checking down and settling for Zellous. Seriously.
 
#47
Granted I only watched the first half of the Auburn/Vandy game, but was I the only one who was completely UNDERwhelmed by Bonner? Maybe I had too high of an expectation since this was the first time I got to watch her, but she looked slow on defense and didn't impress me on the offensive end. At 6'4", 130 (is that even possible?:eek:) I think she'd get torn apart by guards and forwards alike. Christina Wirth and Risper of Vandy looked like better prospects.
 
#48
If it's your first time seeing Auburn, then I don't expect you to have a favorable impression of Bonner. She's looked much better for most of the season. That said, she, like many of the projected first-round picks in this year's draft, has benefitted greatly from not having to compete with the Class of 2008 prospects. I think it's safe to say that Bonner would not have won SEC POY if one of Parker (Tennessee), Fowles (LSU), or Humphrey (UGA) was still in school this year.

The appeal on Bonner is that she's considered to be a 6'4 guard. Mind you, she doesn't really have any guard skills, so perhaps that's a nice way of saying that she's a 6'4 player who can't play inside. From what I've seen, her positives outweigh her negatives. She is a better defender than she showed last night and Vanderbilt is a better team than people are willing to admit.

As for her being torn apart by guards and forwards alike in this league, keep in mind that there are some so-called "elite" guards who will be taken apart by said guards and forwards--and none of them are 6'4. Sometimes, it's better to stick with the adage that height cannot be taught.

As for Wirth and Risper, they're very good players who stepped up their games at the right time. However, they're not elite prospects. I've seen games (Georgia) where both looked like high school players and others where they looked like world beaters. They may both get drafted, but neither is going to make a team. That's not to say they shouldn't, but you have to know how politics work in this league.

I'm not a Wirth fan, but I'd love to give Risper a look. Any player who takes as much pride in her defense while working on her offensive game deserves at least a shot.
 
#49
I am hoping that I caught her on a bad night, because either she was lost on defense, or wasn't interested in playing defense yesterday. I remember one play where there was a loose ball and she was the closest Auburn player to it and she didn't even attempt to go after it. I am hoping I get another look at her in the tourney.

I agree about Wirth and Risper, don't think they can make it, but they played hard and went after it. Maybe that's why I have a better outlook on them as opposed to Bonner.
 
#50
Well, let's just say this. She isn't as good as the two Tennessee games suggest she is (2-0), and she isn't as bad as the two Vanderbilt games suggest she is (0-2).
 
#52
I remember watching Coleman in the beginning of the season, and I pretty much thought she was like Powell, but not as good, and I don't watch much of college hoops, so how does she rate? The way she seems to be playing, I doubt she'll fall to us, but do we need another Powell?

I mean, I suppose we should just take the BPA, and sort it out. And from what some say, if this draft is as bad as 2007, then it will be hard for any of the players to crack the rotation. If that's the case we should try to trade our first this year for like Washington or Chicago's first next year (doubt it'll work, but imagine getting Prince/Wright/Charles/Appel/Raven). Just the assumption that Washington/Chicago will probably be lottery bound again. Doubt it'll work, but yeah.
 
#53
The reason why I've been on the Coleman bandwagon is because as a Powell-like player, we'd have two of them, and the new version can get away with being more of a 2 than the current version because I think the new version is more athletic and perhaps even quicker and better at some things.

Regardless of who comes in here, to me, they need a legitimate 3pt shot that has to be defended or else we're just acquiring pieces that might defend well but are not going to stretch a defense on the other end of the floor and we need somebody else in the rotation who will make you guard them on the perimeter.

I wouldn't trade out of the first round this year at the spot we're picking. If the Ms were lower I might consider it, the Ms traded out of 07's draft so it wouldn't surprise me if they did it again. Trading up might be a possibility with the right piece for the right piece. But I'm not sure we NEED anybody THAT badly to trade up.
 
#54
I wouldn't trade out of the first round this year at the spot we're picking. If the Ms were lower I might consider it, the Ms traded out of 07's draft so it wouldn't surprise me if they did it again. Trading up might be a possibility with the right piece for the right piece. But I'm not sure we NEED anybody THAT badly to trade up.
Yup, I agree...we're in a position where we we'll get someone we need, no need to trade up.

If that's the case we should try to trade our first this year for like Washington or Chicago's first next year (doubt it'll work, but imagine getting Prince/Wright/Charles/Appel/Raven).
I'm already on the Jayne Appel train for 2010!! :D:D:D Not sure if we'll get a pick that high, but hopefully we find a way...if not next year, maybe we can get on the Maya Moore train in 2011?
 
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#55
I'm shocked you are on the Appel train Rdub....shocked I tell ya...;) Yeah...lets all pencil in Moore in case we have a need for her in 2011. That's a ways away...but a roster spot could be open that she can battle for here.
 
#57
I don't see why Detroit would give up Hornbuckle, but if she's available for the 7th overall I'm down for that.

Humphrey seems more gettable, I might bite on that if all it cost me was the #7 and a deep bench player under contract.
 
#58
The more I see Montgomery, the more she looks like a career back-up PG to me. She's a better defender and a better ballhandler than the other highly regarded PG, but that's not really saying much. Her subpar shooting thoughout this tournament (7-32, or 24%, in three games at about 25 mpg, I believe) doesn't exactly speak to her ability to discern between a "good shot" and a "bad shot". She still doesn't know that she is not a good shooter and that is troubling for anyone who thinks she's worth a high draft pick.

As for the whole "versatility" argument, I don't see her being able to play more than one position in the WNBA as a 5'5/120 pound PG (that's being generous). As a SG last year, she shot 37% from the field and 31% from three against college kids, so imagine what those numbers would look like if she actually tried to play SG against much taller and much stronger WNBA defenders. So much is made of her "floor general" skills, but there have been plenty of PGs over the years who had that same "floor general" command who weren't lucky enough to play for UConn.

So, let's assume that she slips past Indiana. (1) Should Sacramento take her? (2) If you say "yes" to #1, where does she play and what kind of an impact would she have here?
 
#59
Aw crap! I missed the championship game. I knew there was something I was wanting to do instead of what I was doing.

Here's my answer to that question. Montgomery is so far off my radar screen it's not even funny. Right now I can't say I'm remotely interested in her if she is available. What's Montgomery's career numbers for 3ptFG and FG generally? I may take a look at her season and career numbers later and see if that changes my mind.

I'll tell you what I want, I have alluded to it a few times, I want a legitimate threat from the perimeter. If they can run some point, that's a bonus. If they can bring the ball up the floor without losing it, I'd settle for it.

I'll agree that 5'5" is pushing the envelope of versatility.

If Indy passes on her, I'd have to see who was left on my draft board. If it's between her and Briann January (assuming Zellous is gone too) I'm passing on a big and checking down to January. I'd feel I got more bang for my buck out of the pick than I would get with Montgomery and probably the better defender of the two. An Ashley (preferrably the one last named Walker) might make me use all of my allotted time to make the pick, but right now I'm heavily leaning towards January in that scenario. (While noting a Hornbuckle trade would look awfully good to me at that point as well).