[Game] 05/82: Kings @ Bulls 29 OCT 2025, 5pm PT/8pm ET

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They shouldn't have taken Zach back in the Fox trade. But I will say this: Zach's contract is now shorter and cheaper than Fox's and he is a better 'tank commander'. If Fox were still here (and not sulking too much) he would probably lead us to the play-in and a #12-14 pick. Sure, I would rather watch Carter and Keon share minutes at the two. But our direction is less stagnant than another tired beam team rerun.
 
Turgenev said:
They shouldn't have taken Zach back in the Fox trade. But I will say this: Zach's contract is now shorter and cheaper than Fox's and he is a better 'tank commander'. If Fox were still here (and not sulking too much) he would probably lead us to the play-in and a #12-14 pick. Sure, I would rather watch Carter and Keon share minutes at the two. But our direction is less stagnant than another tired beam team rerun.
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Are you sure? Looks pretty stagnant to me.
 
TheMobb said:
I hear all of that and I get why it frustrates you. I just think LaVine’s elite scoring and spacing are rare skills that can be extremely valuable if paired with the right roster and system. I think in the right setting his flaws are manageable trade-offs for his scoring upside.
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As of today this remains a hypothetical. And at some point you have to wonder, if he's now in his 12th year in the NBA and he's been part of just one winning team (46-36, 6 seed in the East, lost 4-1 in the playoffs that year) in the previous 11 years, what are the chances that the "right roster and system" do not exist for him?
 
hrdboild said:
You're right in a way, it's not LaVine so much as it's the archetype of what he represents. I hate any player who excuses themselves from playing defense and I hate the way the league enables 3pt specialists to essentially be terrible basketball players and still get paid like superstars. LaVine is already on the Kings and he's already getting paid. I'm not writing any of this to him, I'm writing it to you -- a fan. Because I want you to really see what is going on during the game. Not just the flashy highlight plays and the replay cut-ups of made baskets but where everyone is moving away from the ball and how a well-coached team can exploit one lazy defender to get easy baskets for their team all game long. We're 5 games into an 82 game season right now so I'm trying to make a point. If I can't convince you within a couple of weeks that LaVine is the problem I will try to restrain myself and just let it be from then on.
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I'm not going to say that LaVine is the problem, as if he's the only problem. He is a very incomplete player - that's for sure. His rebounding is crap, his defense is mediocre, he doesn't make other players better, and his BBIQ is less than stellar. He can shoot, but if his life depended on it has no idea how to use a screen to get an open shot. So essentially I'm in agreement with you. But when I look at virtually EVERY player on this team they are a bad players for this team because none of them mesh with each other. It is literally a team of mis-fits. I could see so many of them being traded and helping another team in winning - even LaVine - but not this team. That's why they have to sell the parts and starting building around Clifford and a few other youngins and in the process make sure that they are compatible with each other. I expect that there are or will be many Kings' players directing their agents to promote trading them off this team for the reasons I just gave.
 
Kingster said:
I'm not going to say that LaVine is the problem, as if he's the only problem. He is a very incomplete player - that's for sure. His rebounding is crap, his defense is mediocre, he doesn't make other players better, and his BBIQ is less than stellar. He can shoot, but if his life depended on it has no idea how to use a screen to get an open shot. So essentially I'm in agreement with you. But when I look at virtually EVERY player on this team they are a bad players for this team because none of them mesh with each other. It is literally a team of mis-fits. I could see so many of them being traded and helping another team in winning - even LaVine - but not this team. That's why they have to sell the parts and starting building around Clifford and a few other youngins and in the process make sure that they are compatible with each other. I expect that there are or will be many Kings' players directing their agents to promote trading them off this team for the reasons I just gave.
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Calling LaVine's defense mediocre is being very generous. He might be the worst individual defender in the league, At the very least he has to be in the conversation. I can't think of a single player I would trust less if my team needed to get one stop. And I don't mean who do I not want iso'ed on their best scorer, I mean who do I not even want to see on the floor if my team needs a stop. That's how bad he is.
 
hrdboild said:
Calling LaVine's defense mediocre is being very generous. He might be the worst individual defender in the league, At the very least he has to be in the conversation. I can't think of a single player I would trust less if my team needed to get one stop. And I don't mean who do I not want iso'ed on their best scorer, I mean who do I not even want to see on the floor if my team needs a stop. That's how bad he is.
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Some of us have made the same point about his defense for many years. It’s been that bad for that long.
 
ESP47 said:
Schroder is comically bad. I still can't believe Perry courted him like he was the prom queen. What on earth was he thinking and why did we give him a raise? He was already cooked before he got here.

Monk has been awesome this year and he was really good on both sides of the floor tonight. Carter also played good defense but his offense has yet to be found.

We're running Sabonis and 4 guards out there. Yes DDR is the size of a SG. It's no wonder the defense is terrible. I'm finally convinced that the Kings will never be a good defending team with Sabonis at the 5 so they either need to find a 5 that he can play along side of or they need to trade him. He provides absolutely zero paint defense of any kind. He's an absolute statue and foul machine on drives.

For those harping on Lavine, I could be convinced if you could prove that he gives up more points than he puts up. If that's not the case then he's really not the problem.
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Nien, Herr Schroder ist gut! - well not really ....... Perry needs to let the air outta this whole thing and play all the younger playerss extnded minutes. Sabonis once removed from his offensive hub role loses his strength and alot of what he can do - great thinkin' Dougie and friends And affirmative, Sabonis is another problem on defense - slow foul magnet. Quicker players absolutely eat his Wheaties. Not gonna really get into LaVine - as Hrd noted he comes off as primadonna - too good for defense.
 
Sabonis is already in playoff form to start the season, slight injury, missing point blank shots getting stripped, scared to shoot and getting outrebounded by larger C's , I've never see a guy lead the lead in rebound be a elite rebounder and still get owned consistently 1 on 1 on rebounds like him. I think the Kings need to trade Sabonis now while his value is still high he's the only one who can get you winning pieces in return.

Surrounding Sabonis with 4 low IQ players who dont play defense is just lunatic behavior, the Kings have old rookies as well and they won't even see what they have with Carter. Also why not just sign Westbrook to a minimum and not sign Schroder at all? Schroder as a starting PG made Atlanta (Teague was way better), GSW (team dying for a PG) all way worse and every other team was a lottery team only success he had was as a back up on OKC and the Pistons.

Schroder is a ball dominant score first PG always has been in the NBA and for Germany.
 
ESP47 said:
Schroder is comically bad. I still can't believe Perry courted him like he was the prom queen. What on earth was he thinking and why did we give him a raise? He was already cooked before he got here.

Monk has been awesome this year and he was really good on both sides of the floor tonight. Carter also played good defense but his offense has yet to be found.
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Among the eight Kings who have appeared in at least four of the five games--still a small statistical sample--Schröder is -13.9 per 36 minutes, worst on the team; Monk is +8.3, second behind Eubanks at +12.0. His net rating is -16.7, compared to Eubanks at +17.7 and Monk at +10.7. Schröder's defensive rating is worst on the team at 123.3, compared to Eubanks at 96.5 and Monk at 103.0. He is shooting 41.5%, compared to Monk at 54.7% and LaVine at 54.1%. (Eubanks is worst at 25%.) Schröder's TS% is 47.4, compared to Monk at 69.0 and LaVine at 67.0. Schröder does lead in assists per 36 minutes, at 7.3.

One reason the front office brought in Dennis Schröder as point guard is that, as a veteran, he could hit the ground running, but that has not been the case. At the same time, they tried on multiple occasions, per news reports, to trade Malik Monk. Just how smart are these guys?
 
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As for lineups, last night's starters have a net rating of -40.6. That means Schröder, LaVine, DeRozan, Westbrook, Sabonis.
Even with Ellis substituted for Westbrook, the rating is -35.8.

Please, change something, coach!
 
Caccia said:
Among the eight Kings who have appeared in at least four of the five games--still a small statistical sample--Schröder is -13.9 per 36 minutes, worst on the team; Monk is +8.3, second behind Eubanks at +12.0. His net rating is -16.7, compared to Eubanks at +17.7 and Monk at +10.7. Schröder's defensive rating is worst on the team at 123.3, compared to Eubanks at 96.5 and Monk at 103.0. He is shooting 41.5%, compared to Monk at 54.7% and LaVine at 54.1%. (Eubanks is worst at 25%.) Schröder's TS% is 47.4, compared to Monk at 69.0 and LaVine at 67.0. Schröder does lead in assists per 36 minutes, at 7.3.

One reason the front office brought in Dennis Schröder as point guard is that, as a veteran, he could hit the ground running, but that has not been the case. At the same time, they tried on multiple occasions, per news reports, to trade Malik Monk. Just how smart are these guys?
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Really starting to believe in the stealth tank idea while the front office hopes to garner draft assets in trade deadline deals involving Derozan and or Lavine, ZL contract makes it tough, Monk and really any other vet. Probably the same with Schroeder but he has been bad. Once a solid starting lead guard, those days have been gone for awhile.

Remember Domas asked for a PG and the vets also wanted Westbrook. It’s a long season to embrace the tank but most of the time this team isn’t even very entertaining to begin with. Blend youth in with vets and it all makes sense……may even start winning, but this is bad. Going to get worse when Nique and then Murray comes back
 
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