0% Chance Martin gets Traded...

[sactownfan]

Something that hasn't been brought up yet is Petrie's history of trading his hand picked gems while they are in their prime....

heres petries history of moves http://hoopshype.com/general_managers/geoff_petrie.htm

the only case where a player was "in their prime" would be Jason williams and that trade was a no brainer.... Williams was either on or off... and had a shaky attitude... Bibby was a balanced stud... This trade was obviously in favor of the Kings... anyway thats the only example i could see...

Petrie isn't gonna trade his boy Martin for anything less then a better or totally equal in value player... and even then it seems unlikely... just look at all the players linked to Martin in trades... Jose Calderon? Josh Howard? are you serious??? apparently Martins value is at an all time low.... not only are these players not equal in value but they dont even fit our needs... TALENTED BIGS!!! these are terrible trades....

Martin has been a quality guy and has put up with a lot of #@!% with coaching changes and crappy help... but he's carried this team the best he could and has been a stand up guy about it... not to mention that coachie and Martin are so close... trading him while coachie is still here helping seems kinda messed up...

I dont really understand why so many people here are so eager to trade one of the most pure and efficient shooters in this league??? hes absolutely phenomenal at shooting and getting to the line... why give up on the Martin/Evans combo so quickly?... Martin is not a ball hog... he doesn't need it in his hands that much... most of his moves are quick or assisted by others... its not like he dribbles and around street ball style all around the court... he shots or pump fakes into jumping defenders almost every time... yeah Martin is a bad defender... every team has one... it isn't gonna make or break our team... our team was already in trouble before he came back... and we have 0 weak side help or defense in the paint...

all im saying is there is so much chatter here about trading martin. or wanting to trade martin but all signs indicate hes not going anywhere... nor should we want to trade Martin... hes been though a lot of crap and deserves at least a year to try and make it work with Evans...

the only exception to all this is if Al Jefferson or an equal to Jefferson is offered up... i think Petrie HAS to consider it... and might... might pull the trigger... but keep in mind.... this trade or an equal trade is CRAZY UNLIKELY

the only deal that seems likely are Kenny Thomas and NOC for a PF, or CENTER...

 

[drboiffard]

Why? You have Beno, Garcia, Casspi, Greene... who maybe aren't star players as Martin, but they are solid. And cheaper and younger.

In the other side there aren't very good players on the paint, and Martin is the only player in the roster that can be enough appealing to get a solid center or power forward.

It's not very complicated, that's why 80% of people agree trading Martin. It's the player for whom we can get the most. Kenny Thomas and Nocioni aren't so tempting for other teams, so it won't be that easy to trade them: we don't need another Hilton Amstrong, the team needs starter quality. Someone to both fill the starter and destroy Hawes in the trainings to make him tougher.

 

[sactownfan]

Why? You have Beno, Garcia, Casspi, Greene... who maybe aren't star players as Martin, but they are solid. And cheaper and younger.

In the other side there aren't very good players on the paint, and Martin is the only player in the roster that can be enough appealing to get a solid center or power forward.

It's not very complicated, that's why 80% of people agree trading Martin. It's the player for whom we can get the most. Kenny Thomas and Nocioni aren't so tempting for other teams, so it won't be that easy to trade them: we don't need another Hilton Amstrong, the team needs starter quality. Someone to both fill the starter and destroy Hawes in the trainings to make him tougher.

what??? Look I don't wanna start any of those players over Martin... Greenes improved but he's super shaky.. Same with all the other guys u named... Minus beno who's the BACK UP PG...

The point is... Who is this BIG u think someone wants to give us for Martin??? Who??? Dwight Howard? Bosh? Jefferson? Pau Gasol? Who? Right now there is no big that's worthy of trading Martin...

 

[hammystyle]

He traded Tariq Abdul Wahad, Corliss Williamson, Jason Williams, Hedo and Peja. Pretty effectively I might add. Gerald Wallace was let go via expansion. They didn't let Douby's option pick up, and he's signed Cisco and Martin to second contracts.

There's really no reason tothink he's beholden to guys he's drafted.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Greene is still a little shaky but he is in his second year after not getting much PT in his first. He can grow but he needs time on the court to get there. He already plays better defense and creates matchup problems on both ends.

It will probably cost Martin and at least one more assett to get someone like Bosh or even Jefferson, but that would be a huge upgrade for this team to have a consistent presence inside, there is no denying that.

 

[VF21]

hammystyle - He might not be beholden to them but he's also not going to throw them under the bus for no good reason.

I don't think Petrie is in any hurry at this point. He's going to let the kids learn to play together and see which ones gel the best. Then, if he gets the right offer, he'll pull the trigger on the deal that brings us back the most.

 

[hammystyle]

hammystyle - He might not be beholden to them but he's also not going to throw them under the bus for no good reason.

I don't think Petrie is in any hurry at this point. He's going to let the kids learn to play together and see which ones gel the best. Then, if he gets the right offer, he'll pull the trigger on the deal that brings us back the most.

That was more of a response to the 0% chance that Martin gets traded because Petrie never trades his guys as the basis for this thread.

I think its exciting, Petrie was pretty hamstrung by aging vets with big contracts the last 4-5 years and as much as we wanted him to make swift moves to fix it all there weren't many bullets to fire. Now he's stacked with interesting assets, and he's proven in the past to be a deft team builder when he has the assets to make trades. I am not in the "We must trade Kevin Martin right away" camp, but I am in the, "Pull the trigger if we get the right offer" camp. And I enjoy speculating what that offer could be.

 

[sactownfan]

That was more of a response to the 0% chance that Martin gets traded because Petrie never trades his guys as the basis for this thread.

I think its exciting, Petrie was pretty hamstrung by aging vets with big contracts the last 4-5 years and as much as we wanted him to make swift moves to fix it all there weren't many bullets to fire. Now he's stacked with interesting assets, and he's proven in the past to be a deft team builder when he has the assets to make trades. I am not in the "We must trade Kevin Martin right away" camp, but I am in the, "Pull the trigger if we get the right offer" camp. And I enjoy speculating what that offer could be.

umm... Hedo, Corliss williamson, and wallace? your argument is weak.... Hedo was averaging 6.7 pts a game when he was traded for Miller who was an all-star Starting Center at the time... Corliss was traded for Doug Christie... Wallace was rotting on the bench and was by far the worst move Petrie has ever made...

NONE of these trades are anywhere near the magnitude of trading Martin at 26pt scorer and one of the most efficient shooters in the whole league!!!
not even close.... sure Hedo, and wallace went off since they left... sure they werent the best moves... WHICH REALLY IF YOU THINK ABOUT IT ACTUALLY MAKES MY POINT EVEN STRONGER IN THAT WE SHOULDN'T TRADE MARTIN.... THINK ABOUT IT...

we know what we have in Martin right now... unlike like those other guys... Petrie doesn't have a problem with making trades if he thinks it makes us better...but again he isn't going to trade Martin for anything less than what he is... which is close to being an all-star talent...

and my point is that there is no boarder line all-star talented Big thats going to be offered for Martin right now... were better off trading Kenny thomas for another 1st round pick and drafting 2 bigs in this years draft... Petrie could land at least one solid guy and by going through the draft saves us money also...

 

[VF21]

That was more of a response to the 0% chance that Martin gets traded because Petrie never trades his guys as the basis for this thread.

I think its exciting, Petrie was pretty hamstrung by aging vets with big contracts the last 4-5 years and as much as we wanted him to make swift moves to fix it all there weren't many bullets to fire. Now he's stacked with interesting assets, and he's proven in the past to be a deft team builder when he has the assets to make trades. I am not in the "We must trade Kevin Martin right away" camp, but I am in the, "Pull the trigger if we get the right offer" camp. And I enjoy speculating what that offer could be.

Ah, okay. I think we're pretty much at least reading from the same book then, if not on the same page.

 

[kupman]

I dont really understand why so many people here are so eager to trade one of the most pure and efficient shooters in this league??? .

Because he really does not make this team better...record, team points scored, points scored against etc. So why not trade him if possible to help with our glaring weakness - the front line?

 

[VF21]

Because he really does not make this team better...record, team points scored, points scored against etc. So why not trade him if possible to help with our glaring weakness - the front line?

Based on that criteria, every single player on the team is suspect. While I don't agree that there's zero change of Martin being traded, I do not buy into the whole "Martin is expendable" blamefest going on. Marcos Breton wrote a good article about this, and shock of shocks, I actually see Breton's point.

Martin brings a lot of positives to the Kings that some around here just do not want to recognize or accept.

I've pretty much given up trying to argue those positives but I will object when someone summarily says that Martin should be traded because he doesn't make the team better and then uses points for argument that tar the entire team with the same brush.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Based on that criteria, every single player on the team is suspect. While I don't agree that there's zero change of Martin being traded, I do not buy into the whole "Martin is expendable" blamefest going on. Marcos Breton wrote a good article about this, and shock of shocks, I actually see Breton's point.

Martin brings a lot of positives to the Kings that some around here just do not want to recognize or accept.

I've pretty much given up trying to argue those positives but I will object when someone summarily says that Martin should be traded because he doesn't make the team better and then uses points for argument that tar the entire team with the same brush.

I think the big sticking point is that people say we can't trade Martin because he will help us win now. Fair or not, in games he's played in we haven't won. Is that all his fault? Of course not. But would moving Martin for a big man that would improve us, plus still allow us to play the young guys we're all falling in love with help us win now? Yes. Will it help us win more later, that's debatable, but probably yes.

Those who don't want to trade Martin ever seem to ignore there aren't minutes for the other young guys. So should we move them? Face it, we aren't moving Beno and Noc anytime soon. Nobody wants them for the same reason we don't want them. If we do move them it will be for other guys nobody wants, not draft picks or all-stars.

Kevin is young and attractive and can hold a fan base. He's a guy other teams will trade for. The question is what can we get? It better be good.

 

[sactownfan]

I think the big sticking point is that people say we can't trade Martin because he will help us win now. Fair or not, in games he's played in we haven't won. Is that all his fault? Of course not. But would moving Martin for a big man that would improve us, plus still allow us to play the young guys we're all falling in love with help us win now? Yes. Will it help us win more later, that's debatable, but probably yes.

Those who don't want to trade Martin ever seem to ignore there aren't minutes for the other young guys. So should we move them? Face it, we aren't moving Beno and Noc anytime soon. Nobody wants them for the same reason we don't want them. If we do move them it will be for other guys nobody wants, not draft picks or all-stars.

Kevin is young and attractive and can hold a fan base. He's a guy other teams will trade for. The question is what can we get? It better be good.

my point is that...

REASON #1 MARTIN ISN'T BEING TRADED.... petrie wants to actually have some time to see if it works... which leads me to believe that if Martin is going to be moved it would be in the offseason

REASON #2 MARTIN ISN'T BEING TRADED.... this IMAGINARY BIG MAN you and everyone else wants for Martin doesn't exist... have you not heard the rumors? no awesome bigs are involved and the truth is if a team has one of those guys their holding on to him... and wont be trading him for Martin...

like i said if we could get Al Jefferson i'd be down with that... but that trade isn't likely... and neither is any other trade like that...

 

[pdxKingsFan]

like i said if we could get Al Jefferson i'd be down with that... but that trade isn't likely... and neither is any other trade like that...

They make a hell of a lot more sense for both teams than some of the silly trades proposed here to move Noc or Beno for expirings or high draft picks. Jefferson is rumored to be available, other players we talk about are upcoming free agents or have voiced displeasure with their current team/situation.

Its easy to just be a naysayer, but the odds really do favor Kevin going soon. The fact that the organization publicly denies it makes it more likely, not less likely in my eyes. Usually they just ignore rumors altogether.

 

[Tetsujin]

They make a hell of a lot more sense for both teams than some of the silly trades proposed here to move Noc or Beno for expirings or high draft picks. Jefferson is rumored to be available, other players we talk about are upcoming free agents or have voiced displeasure with their current team/situation.

Its easy to just be a naysayer, but the odds really do favor Kevin going soon. The fact that the organization publicly denies it makes it more likely, not less likely in my eyes. Usually they just ignore rumors altogether.

Rumors are rumors for a reason. Most of them are complete b.s.

 

[BMiller52]

They make a hell of a lot more sense for both teams than some of the silly trades proposed here to move Noc or Beno for expirings or high draft picks. Jefferson is rumored to be available, other players we talk about are upcoming free agents or have voiced displeasure with their current team/situation.

Its easy to just be a naysayer, but the odds really do favor Kevin going soon. The fact that the organization publicly denies it makes it more likely, not less likely in my eyes. Usually they just ignore rumors altogether.

Exactly. I like the guy but IMO he's got to go.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Rumors are rumors for a reason. Most of them are complete b.s.

Whether they are bogus is beside the point, this is a chat board and so we chat about them and how our team could benefit. Sheesh, its like people come up with silly reasons to not even talk about trading Martin.

 

[Tetsujin]

I've never been against trading Martin. I'm just cautioning against believing that Al for Martin was a viable trade. If there were discussions of it, you'd think we'd have heard something by now (Hell, we all managed to hear about the botched Mason for K9 trade a few years back)

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I was strictly talking about the Jefferson on the block rumors, not necessarily that we had ever talked to them. But if he is on the block, that is something we should pursue aggressively along with other options. While Martin alone might not get it done, Martin + Hawes or JT should. We'd still need one more big man in that scenario, but we could move KT for a team looking to dump salary in that case.

 

[swisshh]

Funny, I always called this the "Petrie's penchant for trading guys way too late, after their value has hit rock bottom and getting crap and various tidbits of crap in return" policy.