Evans for Vasquez

[Tyndel]

Wait what? You know this because ... you saw everybody else executing something while Tyreke wasn't?

I guess that might be the issue I have with this. Did we even have any plays to run with the ball in Reke's hands? Did we have a system that stressed movement off the ball picks and open shooters to take advantage of his ability to penetrate? Did we have a coach on the sidelines yelling at Reke when he slowed down to much until it became habit not to slow down? Did we have a coach yelling from the sideline plays so that your pg who may not be a natural playmaker would have a point to start from instead of debating with himself what to do on every trip down the floor until it became habit to run different plays?

Reke never had a chance with the coaches he played for and we wasted 4 years with him and changed his future star and earning potential as a result. I think for Reke this payday means he is giving money up on his next contract. If he had been working with Malone and had been assured the PG spot I think his next contract would have been larger. It would have almost been worth it to take a smaller payday now on a shorter contract and play the position that got you noticed in the first place then to play 6th man(likely Temporary). Reke has proven though he is ok with playing 6th man. He doesn't feel the requirement to rush back from injury and supplant the player that took his place until the coach calls him up so maybe it will be an ok fit.

There was the possibility of something special forming maybe it would be great maybe it wouldn't work at all. Now we are just hoping for a good team and it has less chance to fail but less chance to be a once in a lifetime thing also. It's safe though.

 

[funkykingston]

Some interesting parallels to be drawn between Alex Smith and Tyreke Evans. And lots of the same arguments with supporters claiming that the culture and coaching derailing their development and careers and detractors saying that regardless of circumstances they should have produced more/played better if they were really that good or talented.

With Smith the truth was somewhere in the middle. Under Harbaugh he clearly made big gains but he was still clearly not going to be a star, merely a "good" QB at best. It will be interesting to see what happens with Tyreke. I'm sure the FO wishes he had a year left on his rookie deal so they could experiment risk free but they don't and they had to make a call.

Because Tyreke IS a very interesting player. Elite at getting to the rim but with a shaky (but slowly improving) shot. Best with the ball in his hands but not a playmaker. Great defensive potential/ability but rarely the sustained effort.

The only way the Tyreke gamble pays off huge is if in the right system, with the right pieces around him, he becomes a star - a true star.

As much as I like Tyreke and as much as he's improved (despite what detractors say) I just don't see him making a huge leap in year 5 or beyond. Yes, he's 23 but history shows that it isn't about age as much as league tenure. The great ones make big leaps between year 1 & 2 and especially year 2 & 3. Not small but steady improvements in efficiency but big, obvious, league attention getting improvements. Tyreke doing that now would be akin to Alex Smith suddenly having Aaron Rodgers like succeess in Kansas City.

We'll see how he does as a Pelican but my guess is that Tyreke's career will continue to be that of a versatile but hard to fit player who works best as a role player and not thrust into the role of star. If so, he's not worth $11 million a season.

On the off chance he blows up in New Orleans, feel free to tell me how wrong I was and make me that much more upset that he wasn't extended at a (likely) more reasonable price last year.

 

[Section 101]

You missed my point. If we didn't intend to match, then Tyreke shouldn't have been out there fishing for a contract. We should have been calling every team trying to make a deal. Instead our plan was just to let him walk.

Doesn't work that way. Evans would have to want to go to the team. It was on Evans to find that team not the Kings. Evans found his team in NO.

 

[hrdboild]

Some interesting parallels to be drawn between Alex Smith and Tyreke Evans. And lots of the same arguments with supporters claiming that the culture and coaching derailing their development and careers and detractors saying that regardless of circumstances they should have produced more/played better if they were really that good or talented.

With Smith the truth was somewhere in the middle. Under Harbaugh he clearly made big gains but he was still clearly not going to be a star, merely a "good" QB at best. It will be interesting to see what happens with Tyreke. I'm sure the FO wishes he had a year left on his rookie deal so they could experiment risk free but they don't and they had to make a call.

Because Tyreke IS a very interesting player. Elite at getting to the rim but with a shaky (but slowly improving) shot. Best with the ball in his hands but not a playmaker. Great defensive potential/ability but rarely the sustained effort.

The only way the Tyreke gamble pays off huge is if in the right system, with the right pieces around him, he becomes a star - a true star.

As much as I like Tyreke and as much as he's improved (despite what detractors say) I just don't see him making a huge leap in year 5 or beyond. Yes, he's 23 but history shows that it isn't about age as much as league tenure. The great ones make big leaps between year 1 & 2 and especially year 2 & 3. Not small but steady improvements in efficiency but big, obvious, league attention getting improvements. Tyreke doing that now would be akin to Alex Smith suddenly having Aaron Rodgers like succeess in Kansas City.

We'll see how he does as a Pelican but my guess is that Tyreke's career will continue to be that of a versatile but hard to fit player who works best as a role player and not thrust into the role of star. If so, he's not worth $11 million a season.

On the off chance he blows up in New Orleans, feel free to tell me how wrong I was and make me that much more upset that he wasn't extended at a (likely) more reasonable price last year.

Remind me again when Alex Smith had one of the greatest rookie seasons of all time. I think it would be a more apt comparison if Mike Singletary had come in and moved Alex Smith to fullback, then cornerback so he can learn how to better "see the defense", then settled on field goal kicker and occasional punt returner. Hard to fit player? No, a competent GM would have seen what he had in Tyreke and found complimentary pieces. Instead we seemed to stumble into one "this is the best we can get" trade after another. Do you really think Marcus Thornton and Tyreke Evans was ever going to work as a backcourt? Is it Tyreke's fault that Jimmer isn't an NBA player, John Salmons still can't hit the three reliably, Isaiah Thomas only knows how to play one way, James Johnson is an undersized PF who thinks he's really a SG. I could go on. Good riddance to the lot of them, keep the guy who has shown flashes of dominance on both ends of the court.

The whole comedy of errors that was the last 4 years of Kings basketball would be funny if it weren't so damn tragic. Just one big missed opportunity after another. Now the new regime comes in and instantly thinks "I know what this team needs, better passing and guys who compliment DeMarcus Cousins". Cousins was doing just fine getting his own even with all the mess around him because he's still the only legit post player on the team. He doesn't need Steve Nash to find him off the pick and roll because he's not a skill-less athlete like Amare Stoudamire. He can create his own shots in the post, off the dribble, even on the fast break. A day later I still think it was an enormous mistake and it makes me question whether these guys shouldn't have spent more time doing their homework on what actually went on here. Yes we need better ball movement, but Tyreke was the only guard on the team who actually was moving the ball! You want to see better team basketball? Stop signing shot-happy combo guards and instead sign players who'll buy into the concept of team offense and team defense. Tyreke may not have great success in New Orleans. It already looks like a murky guard situation is developing with no less than 4 guys who like to dominate the ball. But don't tell me Tyreke isn't good enough to lead a team when he was only given one real shot at it and his teammates at the time were this world-beating list of scrubs [here].

 

[Gary]

Potential? Yes. And technically now that #13 is gone you're correct. But I'm not 100% sure Cuz was the best player last season.

Oh Cuz was the best player on the team, by far.

 

['89 Kings Fan]

Doesn't work that way. Evans would have to want to go to the team. It was on Evans to find that team not the Kings. Evans found his team in NO.

Only when your front office is incompetent. I can't remember a single first round draft pick that was offered a five million plus deal that wasn't matched. The only reason to let him go interview with other teams is to set his market value that you will match.

The only good news so far is the Bobcats signed Al Jefferson, so we don't have to worry about that.

 

[Gary]

Only when your front office is incompetent. I can't remember a single first round draft pick that was offered a five million plus deal that wasn't matched. The only reason to let him go interview with other teams is to set his market value that you will match.

The only good news so far is the Bobcats signed Al Jefferson, so we don't have to worry about that.

After reading everything that's been out there I don't think PDA and Vivek put his value over 9mil. I believe that the FO was looking for a sign and trade deal the whole time once they found a team willing to pay Evans. 11mil would have been too much to unload if we retained him for that then found out that he cannot work in this situation. Especially with the amount of years he would have had left.

 

[funkykingston]

Remind me again when Alex Smith had one of the greatest rookie seasons of all time. I think it would be a more apt comparison if Mike Singletary had come in and moved Alex Smith to fullback, then cornerback so he can learn how to better "see the defense", then settled on field goal kicker and occasional punt returner. Hard to fit player? No, a competent GM would have seen what he had in Tyreke and found complimentary pieces. Instead we seemed to stumble into one "this is the best we can get" trade after another. Do you really think Marcus Thornton and Tyreke Evans was ever going to work as a backcourt? Is it Tyreke's fault that Jimmer isn't an NBA player, John Salmons still can't hit the three reliably, Isaiah Thomas only knows how to play one way, Joe Johnson is an undersized PF who thinks he's really a SG. I could go on. Good riddance to the lot of them, keep the guy who has shown flashes of dominance on both ends of the court.

I have always wanted to see Tyreke succeed and his talent maximized. I'm not happy he's leaving either. But star players don't need the right pieces around them to be stars. To really contend for a title? Absolutely. But to be great players? Nope.

And the "he'd be great with better supporting players and a competent/consistent organization is EXACTLY the same narritive presented in Alex Smith arguments. Transcendent talents find a way to shine. And they have a burning desire to improve and compete. Does anyone think Tyreke's committment is on par with say, Kevin Durant, Kobe Bryant or LeBron James? The word when Petrie was personally working with Tyreke last summer was that there was concern in the organization about his work ethic and practice habits.

The Kings just lost their 2nd best/most talented player for virtually nothing. That's a talent bleed for a small market team that can't afford to lose talent. But let's not exaggerate what Evans is. He'd be an $11 million a year gamble as a PG for the Kings next season. Regardless of position and terrible coaching Tyreke and DMC have led this team to less than 30 wins in 3 consecutive seasons. Matching for Tyreke and extending Cousins would mean that same duo would HAVE to make a huge leap to being stars leading a contending team. I think Tyreke is capable of a fair amount more than he's shown the last couple dysfunctional seasons but I think he's an interesting complimentary player, not a star.

Again, let's see what Tyreke does in New Orleans. If he really blows up as a Pelican then I'll join you in being really upset by the Kings' front office not matching.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

Is it Tyreke's fault that Jimmer isn't an NBA player, John Salmons still can't hit the three reliably, Isaiah Thomas only knows how to play one way, Joe Johnson is an undersized PF who thinks he's really a SG. I could go on. Good riddance to the lot of them, keep the guy who has shown flashes of dominance on both ends of the court. [here].

bingo.

 

[rainmaker]

One big mistake IMO and what really is an error on the part of PDA is from what we know, we never offered Reke a contract. Even if they did value him at 9M, they never offered 9M and we'll never know if he would have stayed for 9M. He wanted to stay in Sac and wanted an offer from us, never got it.

Would he have taken a 4/36 + incentives bumping it to 4/38-40? Maybe, maybe not. But if you weren't going to match on 11M, then why not try to get him for less first? If he rejects it and then seeks more elsewhere, at least you tried, at least you attempted to get him for near what you value him. That's really a big mistake to me, not offering less and seeing if you can get a bit of a discount since he wanted to stay.

Not valuing Reke at 11M and matching is a mistake but one others will disagree with. But valuing him around 9M and not even finding out if he'd stay for around that? Tougher to stomach. But we'll have to see how this cap space works out over the next few weeks, since it was Reke for Vasquez/cap space. If there's a direct plan to use that cap space and we have something lined up and that's why PDA did this, we'll find out relatively soon who the other piece of this plan was. But if it was Reke for Vasquez/cap space and cap space without something lined up, that looks considerably worse.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I really think it was the perfect storm and it bit us.

First was the failure to extend him earlier at a good price, followed by his misuse and jerking around by the past regime, combined with the fact that on the market he got one team willing to overpay the rest of the field and load the contract up with poison pills. If there had been multiple teams offering 11 million I think things maybe go different. As it is we'd be locking up most of our cap and hoping McLemore is the guy that is the perfect puzzle piece where others have failed. But if that fails then what?

Our old FO had big problems managing the cap (and as the expansion draft Wallace debacle indicated just looking 2-3 years forward in general) and while this decision is deservedly unpopular I hope it is a sign that the new guy really is some kind of cap wizard and if in the future we make moves for flexible/movable pieces whatever the heck Petrie called it, we actually do something with them. Vivek has too much invested to screw this up.

 

[Fear the Putin]

One big mistake IMO and what really is an error on the part of PDA is from what we know, we never offered Reke a contract. Even if they did value him at 9M, they never offered 9M and we'll never know if he would have stayed for 9M. He wanted to stay in Sac and wanted an offer from us, never got it.

Would he have taken a 4/36 + incentives bumping it to 4/38-40? Maybe, maybe not. But if you weren't going to match on 11M, then why not try to get him for less first? If he rejects it and then seeks more elsewhere, at least you tried, at least you attempted to get him for near what you value him. That's really a big mistake to me, not offering less and seeing if you can get a bit of a discount since he wanted to stay.

Not valuing Reke at 11M and matching is a mistake but one others will disagree with. But valuing him around 9M and not even finding out if he'd stay for around that? Tougher to stomach. But we'll have to see how this cap space works out over the next few weeks, since it was Reke for Vasquez/cap space. If there's a direct plan to use that cap space and we have something lined up and that's why PDA did this, we'll find out relatively soon who the other piece of this plan was. But if it was Reke for Vasquez/cap space and cap space without something lined up, that looks considerably worse.

He wanted an offer of at least what the Pelicans offered, which was $11 mil. You want to low ball him and he turns around and instantly agrees to the Pelicans offer without even talking to us. This isn't an auction where you start him at $8 mil plus incentives until you reach what he's asking for. The Kings FO knew they had to give him at LEAST $11 mil, but Reke was ultimately looking for $12 from us before agreeing to the Pelicans for $11. Was his agent driving up the price to make us offer $12? Yes. But, there would have been no second offer if you spit in his face and lowball him.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

One big mistake IMO and what really is an error on the part of PDA is from what we know, we never offered Reke a contract. Even if they did value him at 9M, they never offered 9M and we'll never know if he would have stayed for 9M. He wanted to stay in Sac and wanted an offer from us, never got it.

Would he have taken a 4/36 + incentives bumping it to 4/38-40? Maybe, maybe not. But if you weren't going to match on 11M, then why not try to get him for less first? If he rejects it and then seeks more elsewhere, at least you tried, at least you attempted to get him for near what you value him. That's really a big mistake to me, not offering less and seeing if you can get a bit of a discount since he wanted to stay.

this is a really good point. i think it would have been reported if they had made an offer of any type, so its pretty fair to say they didnt.

but yea i totally agree. offer him what your willing to pay, and maybe he stays. he loves Sac, AND he is gonna be a bench player in NoLa, so its not too outlandish to think he would have signed for 9m per year here

 

[TTown Kings]

Oh Cuz was the best player on the team, by far.

Maybe like once every four games. I just don't get how people can think this. Inefficient offensively, turnover prone, always in foul trouble, technical fouls that hurt the team, totally inconsistent, liability defensively. There is more to basketball than offensive potential. DMC was not the best player on the team last year. We just traded that player.

 

[The_Jamal]

this is a really good point. i think it would have been reported if they had made an offer of any type, so its pretty fair to say they didnt.

but yea i totally agree. offer him what your willing to pay, and maybe he stays. he loves Sac, AND he is gonna be a bench player in NoLa, so its not too outlandish to think he would have signed for 9m per year here

No it really isn't. NO was the first team to offer him a deal. Once his Price-tag came in at $11mil, why would he take anything less?

 

[Fear the Putin]

this is a really good point. i think it would have been reported if they had made an offer of any type, so its pretty fair to say they didnt.

but yea i totally agree. offer him what your willing to pay, and maybe he stays. he loves Sac, AND he is gonna be a bench player in NoLa, so its not too outlandish to think he would have signed for 9m per year here

it is outlandish when your agent is Arn Tellem
He was going to get at least $11 mil, whether he signed with NO or Sac, nothing less than that. Yes, he loves Sac and that and I don't doubt that, but being lowballed into staying because you love Sac would not have flied with Tellem having Reke's right ear.

 

[rainmaker]

He wanted an offer of at least what the Pelicans offered, which was $11 mil. You want to low ball him and he turns around and instantly agrees to the Pelicans offer without even talking to us. This isn't an auction where you start him at $8 mil plus incentives until you reach what he's asking for. The Kings FO knew they had to give him at LEAST $11 mil, but Reke was ultimately looking for $12 from us before agreeing to the Pelicans for $11. Was his agent driving up the price to make us offer $12? Yes. But, there would have been no second offer if you spit in his face and lowball him.

Reports were he wanted and expected an offer from Sac when free agency opened, never got it and as a result then went and talked to NO. And yes, it would be lowballing, but if you already made up your mind you don't value him above 9M, it doesn't really matter if you've lowballed him or not, you find out if he'll stay for whatever it is your valuation of him is.

How would PDA have known he needed to pay 11M before an 11M offer was on the table? He never received the lower offer first, and as a result went and discovered he could get 11M.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

Why would Reke leave millions on the table when anyone is just one freak play away from their career ending?

I don't think he would have ever taken 9. I think I can imagine why if he wanted to stay in Sac and the Kings told him they were at 9 and he was at 11 he'd be optimistic the Kings would match. It is pretty funny (sad really) that this last CBA was supposed to help small market teams and yet we get from a situation where Kevin Martin is a bargain at 10 million and 5 years later Reke is a reach at 11.

 

[jpsls]

Reports were he wanted and expected an offer from Sac when free agency opened, never got it and as a result then went and talked to NO. And yes, it would be lowballing, but if you already made up your mind you don't value him above 9M, it doesn't really matter if you've lowballed him or not, you find out if he'll stay for whatever it is your valuation of him is.

How would PDA have known he needed to pay 11M before an 11M offer was on the table? He never received the lower offer first, and as a result went and discovered he could get 11M.

You don't think he would have continued to field offers if the Kings offered him $9 million per year?

 

[rainmaker]

Why would Reke leave millions on the table when anyone is just one freak play away from their career ending?

I don't think he would have ever taken 9. I think I can imagine why if he wanted to stay in Sac and the Kings told him they were at 9 and he was at 11 he'd be optimistic the Kings would match. It is pretty funny (sad really) that this last CBA was supposed to help small market teams and yet we get from a situation where Kevin Martin is a bargain at 10 million and 5 years later Reke is a reach at 11.

Players do it all the time due to a better situation. Now, maybe he wouldn't have, but maybe he would have, point is we don't really know as PDA never extended an offer. Reke also will have this contract expire right as he's entering his prime and will be in for another good pay day. It's not his last chance to cash in.

 

[rainmaker]

You don't think he would have continued to field offers if the Kings offered him $9 million per year?

It doesn't matter if I think he would have or wouldn't have, or if you think he would or wouldn't have, we didn't find out.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

No it really isn't. NO was the first team to offer him a deal. Once his Price-tag came in at $11mil, why would he take anything less?

oh its just that simple huh? nothing else factors into it. you think NBA players always take the highest $ offer and thats it?

you think staying loyal to a city you like doesnt come into play? what about the decision of living in New Orleans opposed to California? what about the fact that he would be a starter here, or a bench player in New Orleans?

im not saying he would take less money to stay here or not, but you can't rule it out, and now we will never know

 

[The_Jamal]

oh its just that simple huh? nothing else factors into it. you think NBA players always take the highest $ offer and thats it?

you think staying loyal to a city you like doesnt come into play? what about the decision of living in New Orleans opposed to California? what about the fact that he would be a starter here, or a bench player in New Orleans?

im not saying he would take less money to stay here or not, but you can't rule it out, and now we will never know

We also don't know if he was offered a deal from us or not. It was just never reported.

 

[VF21]

this is a really good point. i think it would have been reported if they had made an offer of any type, so its pretty fair to say they didnt.

but yea i totally agree. offer him what your willing to pay, and maybe he stays. he loves Sac, AND he is gonna be a bench player in NoLa, so its not too outlandish to think he would have signed for 9m per year here

There is no basis in fact for that statement. It is quite possible that Vivek/PDA did make it clear to Tellem that there was a ceiling to what they would offer. It's also quite possible that Tellem took that and went to New Orleans, telling them point blank they'd have to go into the $10+ million range to even have a shot. So New Orleans complied, coming in with an offer that was sufficient enough to ice out all other competitors.

Players leave towns they love for more money all the time. This isn't about Evans' love of Sacramento and the fans. It's about getting the best deal possible during his limited window of opportunity. He's a PROFESSIONAL basketball player with a family and commitments and only a few years to guarantee their future and his.

This romantic notion that players will stay out of loyalty or any other hogwash is just that - fodder for some kind of romantic sports movie but nothing more.

But, at this point, the horse is dead. You can really stop beating it.

And for the record? There are TONS of conversations, proposals and tentative transactions that go on that never see the light of day, even with ace reporters like Jason Jones on the prowl. Not every front office or every agent chooses to make all their business decisions under the public microscope - nor would I want them to.

 

[HereWeBoogie]

There is no basis in fact for that statement.

i thought it was reported that he was deciding to sign the offer sheet because the Kings had not given him an offer?

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I'm selling my house. I get an offer at asking. I haven't taken it yet so we continue showing the house. People like house, tell agent an offer is coming. As a courtesy agent lets the other buyers know we have one offer pending at asking.

Do you think if someone was looking to get in under asking they bother making a formal offer or they just move on with this new knowledge?

 

[Glenn]

Reports were he wanted and expected an offer from Sac when free agency opened, never got it and as a result then went and talked to NO. And yes, it would be lowballing, but if you already made up your mind you don't value him above 9M, it doesn't really matter if you've lowballed him or not, you find out if he'll stay for whatever it is your valuation of him is.

How would PDA have known he needed to pay 11M before an 11M offer was on the table? He never received the lower offer first, and as a result went and discovered he could get 11M.

I suspect the number of $9 mil was brought up and Tellem giggled and hung up. Clearly Tyreke, like most NBA players, values money more than a city. Why else would he sign with a team that does not have room for him as a starter at the moment? Tyreke hired Tellem to make money and he got it.

 

[Siranthony]

All I can say is I'm not to worried about losing Tyreke. He is not worth 11 mil. No way.

 

[jpsls]

It doesn't matter if I think he would have or wouldn't have, or if you think he would or wouldn't have, we didn't find out.

Yes, but you risk setting the market value when you don't have to.

 

[rainmaker]

There is no basis in fact for that statement. It is quite possible that Vivek/PDA did make it clear to Tellem that there was a ceiling to what they would offer. It's also quite possible that Tellem took that and went to New Orleans, telling them point blank they'd have to go into the $10+ million range to even have a shot. So New Orleans complied, coming in with an offer that was sufficient enough to ice out all other competitors.

Players leave towns they love for more money all the time. This isn't about Evans' love of Sacramento and the fans. It's about getting the best deal possible during his limited window of opportunity. He's a PROFESSIONAL basketball player with a family and commitments and only a few years to guarantee their future and his.

This romantic notion that players will stay out of loyalty or any other hogwash is just that - fodder for some kind of romantic sports movie but nothing more.

But, at this point, the horse is dead. You can really stop beating it.

And for the record? There are TONS of conversations, proposals and tentative transactions that go on that never see the light of day, even with ace reporters like Jason Jones on the prowl. Not every front office or every agent chooses to make all their business decisions under the public microscope - nor would I want them to.

The problem with this line of thinking is that while it's assumptions, assumptions that we did tell him our price range, he did scoff at it and did seek out more elsewhere as a result, it ignores the other side of the equation and implies that is the scenario, the only scenario. There's no basis in fact for what you said either, you're just putting more stock in your own personal assumption. You assume you know Reke's personal stance on this, you assume there's no way he would have left 4-8M on the table over four years, you assume he would have jumped at the bigger pay day no matter what, you assume a preference to stay in Sac had or would have had zero bearing on this. You basically just tried to refute assumptions with your own assumptions, then say less than 48 hours later it's beating a dead horse.

It's a romantic notion players will turn down money to stay at home and they instead simply seek the big pay day? Well, what just happened with Iggy shows it's not nearly as romantic a notion as you imply. He didn't jump at the huge contract. Someone should call Iggy and tell him he has a family to look out for. And across professions people turn down more more money all the time for better situations. If not, waitresses everywhere would be quitting and becoming strippers. If it was simply money and nothing else factored in, people would be leaving Sac in huge numbers to earn more in larger metropolitan areas where the average pay is higher, whether SF or LA.

And it's a fair assumption if we offered 9M Reke would have laughed, told us to get lost and went and talked to other teams. But, it's an assumption and as much of an assumption as assuming he might have considered staying here for a few million less over 4 yrs. Only thing which isn't an assumption is that we didn't make an initial offer July 1st.