Evans for Vasquez

[sergmatt]

He's referenced "rebuild" before in relation to the Kings, so I'm guessing you're right about it being his assumption and not something Calderon specifically said.

True it's an assumption but it's the correct assumption. The Kings are in rebuilding mode and can only hope that they catch some lightning in a bottle with an under control Cousins and that Ben McLemore turns out to be really good.

I know with the new ownership many fans don't want to hear the term "rebuilding" and it's somewhat assumed that with new owners and new coach that everything is going to change overnight but without question the Kings are in rebuilding mode. I would say that only now are the Kings in a real rebuilding mode with a real plan.

Sure the Maloofs and Petrie were also in rebuilding mode, the problem was that over the last five years they didn't do much actual building. When you make a lot of personal mistakes and then don't spend any money to fix them (all while trying to get out of town) it's pretty difficult to actually do any "building" in the rebuilding process.

Hate to say it but the last 4 or 5 years with the Maloofs in charge have really been more about spinning your wheels in the mud and getting nowhere.

 

[Packt]

No, this isn't on the Maloofs. This is on Vivek and Pete. All we had to do was match. We had the right to match. A few second round picks here or there is a drop in the bucket compared to letting Tyreke walk for cap space which we don't even need.

They didn't do it for cap space alone.

 

[dude12]

If this is such a great trade, then why was our front office looking to get Jose instead? You owuld think if they really liked the deal they would be sold on this player at the outset, not a higher priced free agent.

Maybe the thought process was or is that Vazquez would bring back more or who they were targeting.....could be they had a SF in mind....no one really knows but them

 

[Gary]

No, this isn't on the Maloofs. This is on Vivek and Pete. All we had to do was match. We had the right to match. A few second round picks here or there is a drop in the bucket compared to letting Tyreke walk for cap space which we don't even need.

Or Maybe PDA and Vivek just didn't feel Evans was in the plans moving forward? It's got nothing to do with being cheap. Maybe Cousins said he can't play well with Evans. Nobody knows outside of the FO why this trade is happening, but I seriously doubt Vivek bought the team to be cheap.

 

[VF21]

True it's an assumption but it's the correct assumption. The Kings are in rebuilding mode and can only hope that they catch some lightning in a bottle with an under control Cousins and that Ben McLemore turns out to be really good.

I know with the new ownership many fans don't want to hear the term "rebuilding" and it's somewhat assumed that with new owners and new coach that everything is going to change overnight but without question the Kings are in rebuilding mode. I would say that only now are the Kings in a real rebuilding mode with a real plan.

Sure the Maloofs and Petrie were also in rebuilding mode, the problem was that over the last five years they didn't do much actual building. When you make a lot of personal mistakes and then don't spend any money to fix them (all while trying to get out of town) it's pretty difficult to actually do any "building" in the rebuilding process.

Hate to say it but the last 4 or 5 years with the Maloofs in charge have really been more about spinning your wheels in the mud and getting nowhere.

To steal a comment from Carmichael Dave, "OMG! They're breaking up our 28-win team!!!"

And as an aside, I found this about Calderon:

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 3h

Agent Mark Bartelstein confirms Calderon passed on Kings. To USAT: "They showed him great vision,made a great offer,but timing wasn't right"

 

[hrdboild]

They didn't do it for cap space alone.

There's already 50 pages of posts talking about that. I've already spelled out in detail why I don't like the move from a talent standpoint but I don't really want to get into it again. That's just running in circles. We could have gotten Vasquez without giving away our second best player, he's not even the starter anymore, New Orleans has him on the block for whatever they can get, and he'll be a restricted free agent in a year. We flat dumped Tyreke's salary like unwanted garbage and picked up Vasquez as a consolation prize.

 

[VF21]

No, this isn't on the Maloofs. This is on Vivek and Pete. All we had to do was match. We had the right to match. A few second round picks here or there is a drop in the bucket compared to letting Tyreke walk for cap space which we don't even need.

I firmly believe and always will that there's more to this than meets the eye. We'll just have to agree to disagree.

 

[Heuge]

To steal a comment from Carmichael Dave, "OMG! They're breaking up our 28-win team!!!"

And as an aside, I found this about Calderon:

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 3h

Agent Mark Bartelstein confirms Calderon passed on Kings. To USAT: "They showed him great vision,made a great offer,but timing wasn't right"

We hear defense...we see FO hunting Calderon. Yikes! I want to believe but could they make it any harder.

 

[Entity]

Oh my god, that's not even remotely true. I've proved it's not true so why do people keep trotting this out as fact? After that $44M deal for Tyreke we would have still had $11 million in cap space after we amnesty Salmons. That is not capped out with no room to maneuver. This is being cheap, just admit it and stop throwing out inaccurate information to defend the indefensible.

the info is accurate. your going off the assumption that Salmons would be amnestied. I am not. which left us with about 3.5 mil in space not near enough to sign a serious free agent. don't throw your gloves down at me over an assumption on your part pal.

 

[sergmatt]

No, this isn't on the Maloofs. This is on Vivek and Pete. All we had to do was match. We had the right to match. A few second round picks here or there is a drop in the bucket compared to letting Tyreke walk for cap space which we don't even need.

First and foremost they let Tyreke walk for basketball reasons not for salary. Considering the team has won 28 games or less every year with Tyreke on the team why is it so difficult for you or anybody else here to understand that the new regime and new GM don't think as highly of Tyreke Evans as you do? Reason I ask that question and mention the record of the team is that the team has been pathetic the last four years with Tyreke on it, so why are people so surprised that outsiders (Vivek and Co.) might view Tyreke as part of the problem and not part of the solution. Keep in mind also that Vivek Ranadive just came from a team that got rid of another iso-driven fan-favorite Monta Ellis and then immediately watched his team get better. I'm not saying that Vivek and PDM are right (ultimately time will tell) but I'd think some here would at least be able to understand their thinking and some of their rational behind this move.

I don't get all of this shock from fans like yourself that can't fathom why the new regime doesn't think Tyreke is great or worth the money.

Based on the Kings record the last four years and Tyreke's numbers and obvious lack of statistical improvement......why would the new owner and GM be so enamored with Tyreke as are so many fans.

If you are new the owner and new GM do you look at a team that keeps winning 20 something games and think to yourself....."Damn I've got to keep that core together". I would hope not....

 

[rainmaker]

To steal a comment from Carmichael Dave, "OMG! They're breaking up our 28-win team!!!"

Cool. So that alleviates all responsibility of getting good value in return and recognizing the talent already on the roster.

How about we just ship out Cuz for Tiago Splitter, since obviously 28 wins tells the whole story.

28 wins has nothing to do with whether trading Reke for Vasquez was a good deal or not. Why doesn't Wash just move Wall, Cle just move Irving and Minn just move Love for pennies on the dollar since their teams also barely won?

 

[Mr. S£im Citrus]

... He got only a single absurd contract. No other team was interested. We didn't lose anyone incredible, albeit we could've gotten more in the trade.

You say this as if you assume it to be fact, but we know no such thing. We only know that no team has offered Evans more than $11M. From this, we can reasonably presume that, if any other team offered him the same amount of money, he was content to either stay with Sacramento, or sign with New Orleans. But that's all we know, at least in terms of what can be proven. Nobody being willing to offer Evans the max is hardly the same as no one being interested. If one team offered the guy $11M on Day One of free agency, what makes you so sure that we would have heard anything about the five teams that might have offered him $10M on Day Two?

If you're playing poker with someone who opens the bidding high enough that you'd have to go all-in just to call, you're probably going to fold, unless you know you have an unbeatable hand. Does that mean you were uninterested in the pot?

 

[dmj]

The problem isn't that they are breaking up a bad team, it is how little they got in return for Tyreke. And apparently they didn't even want the player they got back.

I really don't understand what the problem is in signing him and then, if he just isn't right for the team for whatever reason, finding someone who will trade for him.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

No, this isn't on the Maloofs. This is on Vivek and Pete. All we had to do was match. We had the right to match. A few second round picks here or there is a drop in the bucket compared to letting Tyreke walk for cap space which we don't even need.

We match and then we're pretty locked into the team we have. A small amount of money by amnestying Salmons, a lot of hard to move pieces and bad contracts. This IS on the past regime because they didn't have the foresight to have more flexibility coming into this year.

Oh, and they jerked Evans around over the last 3 years so much that we actually have to debate on whether he is worth the deal or is NO is overpaying. after his rookie campaign it is hard to imagine that's even a discussion.

 

[hrdboild]

To steal a comment from Carmichael Dave, "OMG! They're breaking up our 28-win team!!!"

And as an aside, I found this about Calderon:

Sam Amick ‏@sam_amick 3h

Agent Mark Bartelstein confirms Calderon passed on Kings. To USAT: "They showed him great vision,made a great offer,but timing wasn't right"

By all means break up the team -- sell off everybody. Thompson, gone. Hayes, gone. Salmons, gone. Joe Johnson, gone. Jimmer, gone. Isaiah, gone. But keep the guys who are actually good and young and getting better. Keep Cousins and Evans and McLemore. That's not banking on a 28 win team to improve with coaching, that's gutting 3/4ths of the roster and keeping the guys worth building around. A lot of people seem convinced that Tyreke was a part of the problem, which is mind-boggling to me. Haven't we just spent the last 3 years complaining about Coach Smart and Coach Westphal's complete lack of a structured offense, insistence on playing guys at roles they aren't suited for and lack of commitment to teaching defense? And Petrie's obsession with jumpshooting guards which fill up the rotation, stop ball movement, and take shots away from players who are far more efficient? I don't want that team back. I just want DeMarcus and Tyreke back, you know the two guys who we all pretty much agreed have All Star talent? Or has that already been forgotten?

 

[Arco Arena]

28 wins has nothing to do with whether trading Reke for Vasquez was a good deal or not. Why doesn't Wash just move Wall, Cle just move Irving and Minn just move Love for pennies on the dollar since their teams also barely won?

You just listed consensus max players. Not the same situation.

Tyreke had 1 offer at a price no other team was interested in paying.

The Kings decided they didn't want to pay it either.

Stop trying to twist this as a straight up trade.

 

[hrdboild]

the info is accurate. your going off the assumption that Salmons would be amnestied. I am not. which left us with about 3.5 mil in space not near enough to sign a serious free agent. don't throw your gloves down at me over an assumption on your part pal.

You said we're capped out which implies we cannot make moves under the rules of the salary cap and yet the rules of the salary cap dictate that we actually have $11 million that we can spend. So I ask you again, are we actually capped out or just being cheap? I'm not making an assumption that we will amnesty Salmons, I'm stating that it's incorrect to say we don't have any ability to sign free agents when it's plain as day that we still do.

 

[rainmaker]

You just listed consensus max players. Not the same situation.

Wrong. It all has to do with if you recognize talent or not.

 

[The_Jamal]

The problem isn't that they are breaking up a bad team, it is how little they got in return for Tyreke. And apparently they didn't even want the player they got back.

I really don't understand what the problem is in signing him and then, if he just isn't right for the team for whatever reason, finding someone who will trade for him.

I challenge u to go find any $40mil+ signing where the player was then traded that same season. Who's going to offer us anything of value?

 

[sergmatt]

Cool. So that alleviates all responsibility of getting good value in return and recognizing the talent already on the roster.

How about we just ship out Cuz for Tiago Splitter, since obviously 28 wins tells the whole story.

28 wins has nothing to do with whether trading Reke for Vasquez was a good deal or not. Why doesn't Wash just move Wall, Cle just move Irving and Minn just move Love for pennies on the dollar since their teams also barely won?

Again you are assuming that the new management thinks as highly of Tyreke Evans as you do. Clearly they don't and clearly they see (and they've stated as much) that DeMarcus Cousins is their franchise player to build around.

They may be wrong (and certainly putting all of your eggs in the Cousins basket is a recipe for scrambled eggs) but just because you like Tyreke Evans doesn't mean they do.

 

[The_Jamal]

Wrong. It all has to do with if you recognize talent or not.

So Reke is in the same class as Irving, Wall, Love?

 

[Packt]

There's already 50 pages of posts talking about that. I've already spelled out in detail why I don't like the move from a talent standpoint but I don't really want to get into it again. That's just running in circles. We could have gotten Vasquez without giving away our second best player, he's not even the starter anymore, New Orleans has him on the block for whatever they can get, and he'll be a restricted free agent in a year. We flat dumped Tyreke's salary like unwanted garbage and picked up Vasquez as a consolation prize.

Don't want to run in circles. *Runs in circles*

 

[rainmaker]

Again you are assuming that the new management thinks as highly of Tyreke Evans as you do. Clearly they don't and clearly they see (and they've stated as much) that DeMarcus Cousins is their franchise player to build around.

They may be wrong (and certainly putting all of your eggs in the Cousins basket is a recipe for scrambled eggs) but just because you like Tyreke Evans doesn't mean they do.

Your entire post is incompatible with what I said. I never said Vivek or PDA like Reke, and my "like" for him has little do with with his value in comparison to what we just received. Like has nothing to do with this.

 

[Gary]

Don't want to run in circles. Run in circles.

Jimmy Two Times.. Damn I am good.. Except he said I'm gonna go get the papers, get the papers

 

[Entity]

You said we're capped out which implies we cannot make moves under the rules of the salary cap and yet the rules of the salary cap dictate that we actually have $11 million that we can spend. So I ask you again, are we actually capped out or just being cheap? I'm not making an assumption that we will amnesty Salmons, I'm stating that it's incorrect to say we don't have any ability to sign free agents when it's plain as day that we still do.

yeah we do now. I was saying if we signed Tyreke and did not amnesty salmons. I thought your whole argument was the signing of tyreke that we would still have 11 mil.

 

[VF21]

Not sure how I feel about this but this is one way to placate him. Can't imagine Cousins being the type to sit around waiting for his extension.

For obvious reasons, the Cousins discussion has been split off into its own thread.

 

[Arco Arena]

Wrong. It all has to do with if you recognize talent or not.

Nope. They are consensus max franchise cornerstone players. Tyreke is not.

 

[Kingsfan23]

Jimmy Two Times.. Damn I am good..

Your not too good, who doesn't know that movie? I'm going to get the paper, get the paper
-edit - you caught me while writing that

 

[rainmaker]

So Reke is in the same class as Irving, Wall, Love?

What class are Irving/Wall/Love in if you give them Smart as coach, move them off the ball and/or limit their touches and surround them with non-defensive chuckers?

 

[rainmaker]

Nope. They are consensus max franchise cornerstone players. Tyreke is not.

Wrong again.