Right, not sure how that is different from what I wrote? Unless you're saying that is the structure set in stone, and can't be flattened out? Like 11-11-11-11 = 44? I'm pretty sure Tyreke's "team" will want the most they can get out of year 1, but the Kings will want the number to be as low as possible.
And It Begins....Pelicans About to Talk to Tyreke Evans
- Thread starter Bballkingsrock
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Sure I can.
The idea of a Tyreke/McLemore (if he pans out) backcourt with Cousins is the most exciting thing I've heard from the Kings in years. Finally. Give it a year. And I CAN absolutely guarantee you that Reke with the ball will put up numbers sufficient to make his contract moveable if its not working the way we want.
I should also note that not a single person can tell me with confidence (without lying to themselves) that BenMac will definitely pan out. He's a completely unproven commodity in the NBA.
The idea of a Tyreke/McLemore (if he pans out) backcourt with Cousins is the most exciting thing I've heard from the Kings in years. Finally. Give it a year. And I CAN absolutely guarantee you that Reke with the ball will put up numbers sufficient to make his contract moveable if its not working the way we want.
I should also note that not a single person can tell me with confidence (without lying to themselves) that BenMac will definitely pan out. He's a completely unproven commodity in the NBA.
Being a small market team, you cannot let very talented players like Evans walk. You sign them at all costs. Whether it be to play them or to trade them. We won't be able to bring in a player with Evans' potential in free agency. With the continued development of our youngsters (mainly Cousins), it's likely we won't be drafting high enough to net us a player with the skill and potential of Evans. So in my eyes, the only chance we got at winning a championship is signing Evans and letting him develop, signing Evans and trading him for a player who has star potential, or letting Evans walk and trading Cousins for scraps in order to assure us we will be picking high enough to net us multiple stars in future drafts.
The last thing I want to do is start over because I think Cousins can be the best big man in the league, and that is a recipe for going far in the NBA, but we need at least another star next to him. Even Lebron James, arguably the best player to pick up a basketball, couldn't win a title without another star next to him. I don't want to bank on Cousins being able to do it by himself. We need Evans either as a player or trade bait. If he gets offered 13 mil a year and you think that is too much for him, you match it and look to move him for another star who you would be willing to pay that much money for. It would be a mistake to let a potential star walk away for nothing. I think in the end it will set us back further than you think. I see it as a move that will convert our team from possibly a title contender to mediocrity for years and years.
Another point I want to make is this argument surrounded around "if they think Evans is a SG, he's gone" argument. As high as the FO is on McLemore, he is just a rookie (and a young rookie at that). There is no guarantee he will pan out. I would say the probability of him busting isn't too high, but it's crazy to think that McLemore is the reason why our FO will not resign Evans. How stupid would it look if McLemore turns out to be just an average SG? We let Evans walk because we thought he couldn't play PG next to McLemore, but it turns out McLemore isn't what we hoped and that we wish we had Evans back at SG.
My honest opinion, we should have McLemore come off the bench to start. This guy was in high school just over a year ago. Ease him into it. Let's see if he has what it takes. If he doesn't show well, thank God we resigned Evans! If McLemore shows well, go ahead and try Evans at PG next to him. If that works, great! If it doesn't, then you look to move one of them in a trade where you can get a player back who has similar value.
The last thing I want to do is start over because I think Cousins can be the best big man in the league, and that is a recipe for going far in the NBA, but we need at least another star next to him. Even Lebron James, arguably the best player to pick up a basketball, couldn't win a title without another star next to him. I don't want to bank on Cousins being able to do it by himself. We need Evans either as a player or trade bait. If he gets offered 13 mil a year and you think that is too much for him, you match it and look to move him for another star who you would be willing to pay that much money for. It would be a mistake to let a potential star walk away for nothing. I think in the end it will set us back further than you think. I see it as a move that will convert our team from possibly a title contender to mediocrity for years and years.
Another point I want to make is this argument surrounded around "if they think Evans is a SG, he's gone" argument. As high as the FO is on McLemore, he is just a rookie (and a young rookie at that). There is no guarantee he will pan out. I would say the probability of him busting isn't too high, but it's crazy to think that McLemore is the reason why our FO will not resign Evans. How stupid would it look if McLemore turns out to be just an average SG? We let Evans walk because we thought he couldn't play PG next to McLemore, but it turns out McLemore isn't what we hoped and that we wish we had Evans back at SG.
My honest opinion, we should have McLemore come off the bench to start. This guy was in high school just over a year ago. Ease him into it. Let's see if he has what it takes. If he doesn't show well, thank God we resigned Evans! If McLemore shows well, go ahead and try Evans at PG next to him. If that works, great! If it doesn't, then you look to move one of them in a trade where you can get a player back who has similar value.
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Why? What have you seen from Reke's PG play that suggests he's worth $11mil at that position? Oh right, you can't! We haven't seen it in 2 years!
I'm not expecting franchise player production from McLemore as I would with Reke at $11mil. BTW, go find me a perimeter player making $11mil or more and isn't one of the top players on that team. If not the top player.
I'm not expecting franchise player production from McLemore as I would with Reke at $11mil. BTW, go find me a perimeter player making $11mil or more and isn't one of the top players on that team. If not the top player.
To me, when you get up in the $11 mill/yr range it's not an easy call. And that makes perfect sense because NO wants to take Sacto up to a price range just higher than they are willing to pay, a very painful place. DA has to look at the alternatives: match the offer; sign and trade in order to get value; let Tyreke go and use the $11 mill elsewhere; and the feasibility of trading Tyreke in the future with an $11 mill/yr. contract. That's why he's paid the big bucks.
Yes. But that's not a very good question either given the systems are likely to be different. We'll be playing with Cuz as a focal point. NO didn't play through Davis. They posted him on occasion but didn't run their offense through a big as the focal point.
In our system if we're playing through Cuz, and the other major aspect will be getting looks for shooters, off doubles and penetration(and PDA is on record as loving guys who penetrate), Vasquez is not the type who can break down defenders, shift defenses and create looks for MLM and yet to be named shooters. Reke is.
Then you get into potential, and hands down you overpay for Reke who's ceiling is much higher than Vasquez due to talent and you don't instead waste cap space on a guy like Vasquez.
In our system if we're playing through Cuz, and the other major aspect will be getting looks for shooters, off doubles and penetration(and PDA is on record as loving guys who penetrate), Vasquez is not the type who can break down defenders, shift defenses and create looks for MLM and yet to be named shooters. Reke is.
Then you get into potential, and hands down you overpay for Reke who's ceiling is much higher than Vasquez due to talent and you don't instead waste cap space on a guy like Vasquez.
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I think he is capable of playing PG, my biggest gripes with him when he did play PG exclusively were walking the ball up the court, and being hesitant to make the first pass to initiate the offense. With good coaching, a good system, his natural growth as a player, and a SF to share those duties I think he would do fine.
And who did the Kings just get in the draft. I see the potential to tie up a ton of money in a player that doesn't fill the crippling needs this team has had for a number of years. This team as is can do with less players that want to create for themselves. That's kind of been the biggest issue with this team the last few years you know.
True, but the real question is can we score the same way while playing defense? All the top teams have guys who break defenses down through dribble penetration. You have to see that offense and defense are related. Its not possible for us to be a good defensive team if we play the same way on offense, leaking out and chucking ill-advised 3s.
Good point, but I don't see the issue being something that takes this team back from the success it's had as a perennial 25 win team, hehehe. Having Cousins as the focal point of the offense changes things since he can do so much with the ball. Also, it's not like Tyreke is the only player on this team with the ability to slash. Nobody is close to his level but Thomas and even Thornton can get to the rack. Though I really can't see this team relying that much on guard penetration with Cousins needing to be in the middle or down low.
Guards that are not No1 on their teams and are payed ~11mil and up
Joe Johnson, Dwayne Wade, Andre Iguadala, Manu Ginobili, Eric Gordon, Russell Westerbrook, Kevin Martin, Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Nicolas Batum, Tony Parker, Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon
That is 13 players on 11 different teams out of total of 30 teams. Other words, every 3rd team has guard that is payed 11 mil or more and is not #1 on their team.
Joe Johnson, Dwayne Wade, Andre Iguadala, Manu Ginobili, Eric Gordon, Russell Westerbrook, Kevin Martin, Ben Gordon, Richard Hamilton, Nicolas Batum, Tony Parker, Monta Ellis, Jose Calderon
That is 13 players on 11 different teams out of total of 30 teams. Other words, every 3rd team has guard that is payed 11 mil or more and is not #1 on their team.
People who get so caught up with Tyreke not being able to run as PG are stuck in the good ol' John Stockton era of basketball. Ultimately you want to win, how the PG being ran has been vastly different over the years. From Fisher as PG winning with the Lakers to Chalmers as PG winning with the Heat, this is not NBA 2k14, anyone on the court can bring up the ball and call a play and execute it.
Why should it matter if our FO sees him as a PG? Is it because we drafted McLemore? Are we betting that McLemore is going to be "the guy" at SG for the foreseeable future? I don't want to take that risk. Resign Evans and bring McLemore off the bench to start. If McLemore struggles, aren't we glad we resigned Evans? If McLemore shows promise, bump him up to the starting lineup and see how Evans and McLemore work together. If they play well together, excellent! We have our backcourt of the future! If they don't work, you trade one of them and get an equal talent back. You absolutely don't let Evans walk because you just drafted a 20 year old rookie SG. We can't keep giving up players of Evans' caliber and expect to compete in the playoffs in the future.
You just proved my point for me.
Johnson-Franchise guy in ATL when he signed the deal
Wade-Franchise guy in Miami
Manu- Part of the trio that's made SA the powerhouse they are today
Westbrook- Top 15 player, elite on both ends of the floor
Eric Gordon- Bad contract. Didn't deserve a max.
Kevin Martin- Franchise guy when he signed the deal with us. #1 option and best player with us and Houston for several years
Ben Gordon- Worst contract in basketball.
Rip Hamilton- $5mil/year. Not sure why you included him.
Batum- Support player. Still, incredible productive as he does everything and has a set position
Parker- Best player in the Spurs the last 5 years and an MVP candidate the last 2
Monta- Overpriced, but clearly the most important guard and scorer on that team
The point? If we're paying Reke $11mill/season then I expect elite production out of him.
Johnson-Franchise guy in ATL when he signed the deal
Wade-Franchise guy in Miami
Manu- Part of the trio that's made SA the powerhouse they are today
Westbrook- Top 15 player, elite on both ends of the floor
Eric Gordon- Bad contract. Didn't deserve a max.
Kevin Martin- Franchise guy when he signed the deal with us. #1 option and best player with us and Houston for several years
Ben Gordon- Worst contract in basketball.
Rip Hamilton- $5mil/year. Not sure why you included him.
Batum- Support player. Still, incredible productive as he does everything and has a set position
Parker- Best player in the Spurs the last 5 years and an MVP candidate the last 2
Monta- Overpriced, but clearly the most important guard and scorer on that team
The point? If we're paying Reke $11mill/season then I expect elite production out of him.
You are arguing with the wrong person. If you read my earlier posts, I'm a Tyreke fan and hope he is retained.
I'm simply stating what I think is the FO's sentiment. The FO is very high on Mac. He would really have to struggle in summer league and training camp for them to not start him. The FO have hinted that they are looking for a SF upgrade in free agency. That really just leaves PG for Tyreke.
I just can't see us paying $11 mil for a 6th man. We already have a $8 million a yr 6th man in Thornton (he is not traded at this point). The FO will only pay starter money for a starter. It is what it is.
I'm simply stating what I think is the FO's sentiment. The FO is very high on Mac. He would really have to struggle in summer league and training camp for them to not start him. The FO have hinted that they are looking for a SF upgrade in free agency. That really just leaves PG for Tyreke.
I just can't see us paying $11 mil for a 6th man. We already have a $8 million a yr 6th man in Thornton (he is not traded at this point). The FO will only pay starter money for a starter. It is what it is.
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