Who is available as 6th-7th pick

[Padrino]

But Evans doesn't have the same as Conley. Conley has a floater that is a big part of his game. And no I don't think Evans needs to ball more in his hands. That doesn't mean he should be taking less shots, but that his decision making shouldn't be increased. Give him the ball off a screen going to the basket is fine. Handing him the ball standing on the wing or the top is not.

aaaaaand why not??

it's a great highlight package against one of the best defenses in the nba. but the first two plays more than prove my point. evans' creativity off the dribble is absolutely worth harnessing from up top. of course, he should not exclusively exist as an iso-player, because he's more talented than that. a creative coach will post him up. a creative coach will use him in the pick and roll. a creative coach will send him to the rim off-ball on a back screen. a creative coach will also let him operate on the wing or at the top of the key. evans can accomplish these at either guard position, depending on who he's paired with. his offensive versatility is becoming one of his greatest strengths...

 

[funkykingston]

I don't prefer Rubio's 7 assists or 30% shooting. I prefer Rubio's COURT VISION and the ability to make others around him better. Why are we even comparing Evans and Rubio anyway? They play two different positions.

Also, while Smart isn't a good coach by NBA standards, he's still better than any of us so there had to be a reason why he cut Evans minutes which probably had to do with the glutton of SGs we had and Smart's ability to see that Evans is not a PG.

First off, Keith Smart was run out of Oakland largely for benching Steph Curry for Acie Law and didn't play any Kings player more than 30 minutes except for John Salmons. His rotations and his notion of treating an NBA roster like a youth soccer team where everyone gets their chance to play are what are very likely going to cost him his second head coaching job. If anything, Smart's tenure is a reason TO believe that Tyreke is a better player than we've seen in the last two years.

But all of this discussion boils down to what the Kings decide to do about Tyreke and DeMarcus.

If they don't see Tyreke as a player worth paying big money for and see DMC's attitude as a hindrance to building a winner then they can let Evans walk and trade Cousins.

Alternately, they can cut ties with one and keep the other, trading DMC and keeping Tyreke or letting Tyreke walk (or a sign-and-trade) and keeping DeMarcus, at least for one more season.

But IF they feel both players are worth building a team with then the priority should be finding a way to maximize their talents, hide their weaknesses and build around them with complimentary players.

With DeMarcus that means finding a shot blocker to cover for his deficiency in that area, setting up an offense where the ball often moves through him, and finding shooters to give him space to operate.

For Tyreke that means putting the ball in his hands more than making him play off it, finding a backcourt mate who can also handle the ball & defend (hopefully with size to keep Tyreke's advantage against opposing PGs) and a shooter at the SF position.

I know how I feel about things, but we'll find out pretty soon how the new ownership group (and hopefully new front office) feels about these two players. And really, their opinions are the only ones that are really going to matter.

 

[Dime Dropper]

No, I am saying a lot of his assists are bailout assists rather than the assist where you swing it, or where he gets creative with the intention of dumping it to someone else (intentional drive and kick)

He has got better at seeing the floor in the last year or two but I still only want him as a part time PG rather than being penciled in as the starter going forward.

Whoa there nelly... Have you played basketball Gary? With all due respect, no player should ever drive solely to kick it to someone. You read the defense, it's that simple.

No, you are narrow minded on how a team is built and keep trying to push something that does not work. And don't even start to compare Conley's floor generalship to Evans. It's not even close to being comparable. Hill on the other hand.. .ehhh.. He's about as close to Evans as we have seen succeed. I would still take Hill over Evans though if given the chance. He's (in my opinion) better than Evans in what makes a PG a PG but Evans is a better 1 on 1 player.

This confirms how, to put it bluntly, ridiculous your basketball views are. Hill over Tyreke? Are you serious? This PG obsession you have is absurd!

In a lot of your posts you mention potential potential potential. Or he has the skills to be this or that. How long do you want to give it? Another 4-5 years? Come on, there are times when you have to cut your losses and move on..

How about a year under a good coach and a proper system? I don't even know what you're talking about. Cut our losses? Tyreke is not the problem with this team, in fact he's our second best player with a lot of room for growth and a big reason that this team has hope for the future! Your views are incredible. It's as if he's holding us back.

And calling Evans special? Please... Get your head out of your *** and look at it objectively rather than through those rose colored goggles. He's not a special player. There are 50 players I would take over Evans that are in the NBA right now.

Your opinion, and one that most GMs would disagree with (no source obviously, apart from common sense). If you think Tyreke isn't a top 50 player in the NBA, I don't really know what to say to you.

Exactly. Assists are a wonky measurement in any case. NBA statisticians rarely agree on any given play where a dribble is involved whether it results in an assist or not.

I am still of the opinion that a top tier PG is fool's gold in the NBA. Chris Paul is an exceptional player, yet, he has never brought a team within sniffing distance of a conference championship. Jason Kidd only got his ring when he surrendered ball-handling and settled on a perimeter role. In the end, superior size will always trump the skills of the smallest player on the opposing team.

I would much rather have a team where 6 players average four assists per game than a team where 1 player averages 14. That's on the coach more than the players.

Good summary. It's so clear yet it's ignored so blatantly. Incredible.

I don't prefer Rubio's 7 assists or 30% shooting. I prefer Rubio's COURT VISION and the ability to make others around him better. Why are we even comparing Evans and Rubio anyway? They play two different positions.

Also, while Smart isn't a good coach by NBA standards, he's still better than any of us so there had to be a reason why he cut Evans minutes which probably had to do with the glutton of SGs we had and Smart's ability to see that Evans is not a PG.

Why do you prefer Rubio's court vision to Tyreke's superior ability to get to the rim and finish, shoot, rebound, score, defend? The answer is you're completely obsessed by assists and the term PG, to the point where it makes you lose all touch with reality. No team has won a championship with a player like Rubio as a PG. If you can name one, that'd be great. Tyreke is built for the playoffs. He needs to be our lead guard. I don't care about the term PG, it's really not important. You don't marginalize a player like Tyreke just because he's not a traditional PG.

 

[Kingster]

my argument isn't that george hill is the reason behind the pacers' success. my argument is that you can win early and often without a natural facilitator, without these vaunted "pg instincts" that a certain contingent of kings fans always pine for...

point is, if indiana and memphis can win as they do, with the guards they employ, then certainly the kings can create a winning culture with tyreke evans as their lead guard, as long as they commit to a culture of defense. let me put it this way: imagine tyreke evans' on either the pacers or the grizzlies, with a coach intent on harnessing his defensive potential and his rim attack, and perhaps you might be willing to see my point...

Frankly, if I imagine Tyreke playing against Miami with the Pacers, he doesn't fare too well against their quickness and pressure. I think he would struggle getting the ball up the floor and doing things against their quickness. IT would be far better in that role imo. He would break the Miami pressure and not be turnover prone. The Pacer guards just barely hung on against the Miami pressure. They had many iffy moments. (I hope they do better by the way; I'd love if they beat Miami).

 

[Gary]

i'm not. but you recently made the rather strange claim that any gm in the league would prefer rubio to evans at this stage of their careers, and it exposed your bias. it also calls into question your ability to recognize a truly "special" player. rubio's court vision is nice, but court vision alone can't get a team to the playoffs. points in the paint and defense can...

anyway, you still haven't addressed my point regarding the elite company tyreke keeps at the rim, and what that skill is worth to a team...

Can you find that quote? I do not think I have ever said that.. If I did then I would admit being wrong, but that does not sound like something I would say.

As for your question about getting to the rim we had a player that left the Kings who could do the same thing. His name was Kevin Martin. I believe it's nice to have a player that can do that, but it's also nice to have a player that can block shots, or grab a lot of rebounds.

 

[funkykingston]

Frankly, if I imagine Tyreke playing against Miami with the Pacers, he doesn't fare too well against their quickness and pressure. I think he would struggle getting the ball up the floor and doing things against their quickness. IT would be far better in that role imo. He would break the Miami pressure and not be turnover prone. The Pacer guards just barely hung on against the Miami pressure. They had many iffy moments. (I hope they do better by the way; I'd love if they beat Miami).

As I mentioned in the other thread where you brought up this point - Tyreke is a better ballhandler than Isaiah, and is taller and longer to see over the defenders who are pressing him AND he is bigger and stronger to shield the ball better. I'd take Tyreke over IT in press situations and over George Hill as well.

 

[jalfa]

I distinctly remember this thread having once been about the upcoming draft and not about the best way to beat a dead horse. why is that not the case anymore?

 

[Darth Divac]

Can you find that quote? I do not think I have ever said that.. If I did then I would admit being wrong, but that does not sound like something I would say.

You did, actually. It was on the thread, "Still mad we didn't draft Rubio?"

 

[funkykingston]

As for your question about getting to the rim we had a player that left the Kings who could do the same thing. His name was Kevin Martin. I believe it's nice to have a player that can do that, but it's also nice to have a player that can block shots, or grab a lot of rebounds.

Kevin Martin definitely did get to the rim, the ability to do so is a big part of his game and a big reason why (along with a good outside shot) he was and is such an effective scorer. The fundamental difference between KMart and Tyreke in that regard is that Evans finishes at the rim MUCH more effectively. Kevin never had and is largely dependent on creating contact and getting to the free throw line. Unfortunately for Martin, his style is much more successful in the regular season than the playoffs (when refs swallow their whistles), which I'd say is the opposite for Tyreke.

 

[funkykingston]

I distinctly remember this thread having once been about the upcoming draft and not about the best way to beat a dead horse. why is that not the case anymore?

I think in large part it's because who the Kings draft with the 7th pick (assuming they keep it) is dependent on what direction they go with Tyreke and DeMarcus.

 

[Gary]

Whoa there nelly... Have you played basketball Gary? With all due respect, no player should ever drive solely to kick it to someone. You read the defense, it's that simple.

Really? That's all you took from my quote. I am sure if you played basketball then you know what I am talking about. The drive to the rim by a guy like Evans HAS to be taken seriously. So the defense comes in and he gets an open look from outside. He could have drove with no intention of ever taking a shot, but the defense doesn't know that.

Fast breaks which the PG facilitates. He's running the floor and passing it off near the rim too.. So yes, there are drives by players who have no intention of taking a shot in traffic in order to get others an open shot. You play ball right? You asked if I did, and no, I only played organized baseball for about 15 years.

Also, yes I would take Hill over Evans. Hill knows how to win, and has played on really good teams and picked up some of their habits.

Give Evans a good year under a good coach? Come on.. Excuses and excuses by the pro-Evans people. It's all about "Evans was injured the whole year" or "Give Evans a good coach" and many other excuses. I deal with people that make excuses every day. It gets old to hear the same ones every day for 4-5 years.

And Evans is not a top 50 Talent. If there was a draft consisting of all the players I wouldn't take Evans in the top 50.

The whole "knowledge" thing goes both ways man. Fortunately I have coaches that agree with me by how they're running their teams which lends to being a little more credible than all this Evans at PG crap.

Evans is a SG and a part time PG at best.

EDIT: That top 50 thing is based on skill alone. It has nothing to do with their age or how many years they have left in the league. That's not factored in.

 

[Glenn]

A lot will depend on his individual workouts. He impressed me with his speed in the one and only game I saw him play. Dude is super quick. Personally, I'm not that interested in aquiring another PG, unless someone convinces me that he's a difference maker. Some of it is that I'm just sick and tired of talking about PG's. We drafted Evans to play the point. Then we drafted Fredette, followed by Thomas, and went out and signed Aaron Brooks, followed by trading for Toney Douglas, and were still talking about drafting another PG. I get tired of eating chicken everynight as well. Sorry, but I'd like to talk about someone taller than 6'4".

You are not alone although I suspect you have the confidence to not care.

I don't want a guard unless it is Odalipo although even at that, it depends on the choices we have. Porter and Bennett are good choices also. Bennett intrigues me a lot and from day one I would put him at SF. Given Cuz, JT, PPat (stretch 4), Bennett (unstretched 3), Evans, and even Aldrich, we have a powerful team - a team built for playoffs. Sign Daly, please. We must have something appealing that might bring him back.

Heck, when we had a rookie called Cuz, he had a nice partnership with Daly that was hard to stop. Give Cuz a few more years experience in the NBA and attach onto that the experience with Daly and you have something interesting. I will keep bringing up Daly as he avoids multiple dillemas like a 206 pound shot blocker, another shot blocker with a stress fracture, etc. There are other shot blocking types but not Zeller who in a way has no position. I don't know if Withey has improved.

 

[funkykingston]

I don't want to argue about basketball tactics and fundamentals but I will say that no player should drive to the hoop with the intention of passing the ball. You go to the hoop with the intention to score and then judge whether or not (based on how the defense reacts) whether to pass the ball or not.

The reason the ability of a guard or wing to attack off the dribble is a valuable asset is because once you go past your man, the defense has to rotate to compensate, meaning they are now at a disadvantage somewhere. Whether a player passes or tries to score depends on what the defense does and what the offensive player's skillset is.

 

[jalfa]

I think in large part it's because who the Kings draft with the 7th pick (assuming they keep it) is dependent on what direction they go with Tyreke and DeMarcus.

sure, it's just that we're verging on a solid three pages bereft of any discussion of the draft, but instead filled with the most tired argument on this board. an argument that has several threads dedicated to it.

 

[Padrino]

Can you find that quote? I do not think I have ever said that.. If I did then I would admit being wrong, but that does not sound like something I would say.

As for your question about getting to the rim we had a player that left the Kings who could do the same thing. His name was Kevin Martin. I believe it's nice to have a player that can do that, but it's also nice to have a player that can block shots, or grab a lot of rebounds.

i'm having trouble locating the quote i'm thinking of. there's a lotta posts to sift through these last few weeks...



but, given my difficulty, i will back off my previous statement regarding your opinion of evans v. rubio, since it's not fair to attribute something to you when i'm unable to provide proof...

as to your second point, let's play with the numbers again. '07-'08 was kevin martin's best statistical season with the sacramento kings. he was 151-251 at the rim, for 60%. this past season, tyreke evans was 230-359 at the rim, for 64%. that was in reduced minutes, and primarily off-ball. he also missed 17 games due to injury...

in 'reke's rookie season, he played and started in 72 games, and he was 352-596 at the rim, for 59%. there's a BIG difference between when it's "nice to have a player that can do that," like kevin martin, and when you have a player who is flat-out dominant at the rim. martin got to the rim from time to time, and with success. but tyreke evans makes a home there...

edit: in '07-'08, kevin martin missed a buncha games due to injury. so let's look at '06-'07, in which he played and started in 80 games. he was 176-273 at the rim, for 65%. again, the field goal percentage at the rim is nice, but the numbers are hardly dominant when compared to a guard like tyreke, who gets to the rim more consistently than damn near every guard in the league. just put the ball in his hands...

 

[Dime Dropper]

I don't want to argue about basketball tactics and fundamentals but I will say that no player should drive to the hoop with the intention of passing the ball. You go to the hoop with the intention to score and then judge whether or not (based on how the defense reacts) whether to pass the ball or not.

The reason the ability of a guard or wing to attack off the dribble is a valuable asset is because once you go past your man, the defense has to rotate to compensate, meaning they are now at a disadvantage somewhere. Whether a player passes or tries to score depends on what the defense does and what the offensive player's skillset is.

Thanks for saving me the time of typing this out.

 

[rhythmless]

Really? That's all you took from my quote. I am sure if you played basketball then you know what I am talking about. The drive to the rim by a guy like Evans HAS to be taken seriously. So the defense comes in and he gets an open look from outside. He could have drove with no intention of ever taking a shot, but the defense doesn't know that.

Fast breaks which the PG facilitates. He's running the floor and passing it off near the rim too.. So yes, there are drives by players who have no intention of taking a shot in traffic in order to get others an open shot. You play ball right? You asked if I did, and no, I only played organized baseball for about 15 years.

Also, yes I would take Hill over Evans. Hill knows how to win, and has played on really good teams and picked up some of their habits.

Give Evans a good year under a good coach? Come on.. Excuses and excuses by the pro-Evans people. It's all about "Evans was injured the whole year" or "Give Evans a good coach" and many other excuses. I deal with people that make excuses every day. It gets old to hear the same ones every day for 4-5 years.

And Evans is not a top 50 Talent. If there was a draft consisting of all the players I wouldn't take Evans in the top 50.

The whole "knowledge" thing goes both ways man. Fortunately I have coaches that agree with me by how they're running their teams which lends to being a little more credible than all this Evans at PG crap.

Evans is a SG and a part time PG at best.

EDIT: That top 50 thing is based on skill alone. It has nothing to do with their age or how many years they have left in the league. That's not factored in.

If I'm defending Tyreke, I don't send wing help, I allow the man defender to guide him into the paint defender. Drive and kicks are way easier than a drive and drop off or a pass that wraps around. Plus, Tyreke doesn't elevate much which makes the paint defender just stand straight up, giving more time for the recovery if Tyreke gets his pass in.

Course, with the "strength" of our wing shooters and Tyreke's propensity to drive too far into bodies of people, pretty much everything works against us. Le sigh.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Really? That's all you took from my quote. I am sure if you played basketball then you know what I am talking about. The drive to the rim by a guy like Evans HAS to be taken seriously. So the defense comes in and he gets an open look from outside. He could have drove with no intention of ever taking a shot, but the defense doesn't know that.

Fast breaks which the PG facilitates. He's running the floor and passing it off near the rim too.. So yes, there are drives by players who have no intention of taking a shot in traffic in order to get others an open shot. You play ball right? You asked if I did, and no, I only played organized baseball for about 15 years.

Also, yes I would take Hill over Evans. Hill knows how to win, and has played on really good teams and picked up some of their habits.

Give Evans a good year under a good coach? Come on.. Excuses and excuses by the pro-Evans people. It's all about "Evans was injured the whole year" or "Give Evans a good coach" and many other excuses. I deal with people that make excuses every day. It gets old to hear the same ones every day for 4-5 years.

And Evans is not a top 50 Talent. If there was a draft consisting of all the players I wouldn't take Evans in the top 50.

The whole "knowledge" thing goes both ways man. Fortunately I have coaches that agree with me by how they're running their teams which lends to being a little more credible than all this Evans at PG crap.

Evans is a SG and a part time PG at best.

EDIT: That top 50 thing is based on skill alone. It has nothing to do with their age or how many years they have left in the league. That's not factored in.

Seriously? If you're going to argue that Tyreke wouldn't be further along now than he is if he'd had good coaching for the first four years of his career instead of a revolving door of highschool level clowns, you're deluded. It's quite simple: either the Kings have been well coached the last few years, or they haven't. It's pretty obvious. You cannot have it both ways. If you believe coaching hasn't played a role in Tyreke's play, we're as well keep Smart, because it's blatantly obvious Tyreke has suffered the most on our team due to pee-poor coaching. But if coaching doesn't matter, why have we gone through coaches like toilet paper? Why were we such a mess last year? And on that note, I'll bow out of this argument. You're seeing what you want to see and nothing else, despite it being right in front of your face. Your posts on this issue never cease to amaze me.

 

[Section 101]

Your opinion, and one that most GMs would disagree with (no source obviously, apart from common sense). If you think Tyreke isn't a top 50 player in the NBA, I don't really know what to say to you.

We are going to find out soon what other GM's think. Let's see what kind of offers he gets.

And no he's not a top 50 player. As an example, he's #69 on ESPN's rankings from last year. I don't think this last season would increase his ranking. He was tied for #55 in PER if you want some stats to go with it.

 

[Dime Dropper]

We are going to find out soon what other GM's think. Let's see what kind of offers he gets.

I never guessed what he'll get offered. I'm willing to bet some team will get a good deal if he leaves because he's been criminally misused the last few seasons here. What will determine his value is when he has a good coach and is used properly, not some contract offer after he hasn't been allowed to play near to his full potential. But nice try to deflect the real value of Tyreke, which will be proved on the court rather than the amount of $$$ he's offered.

And just to clarify this point, since it was in response to how many GMs would have Tyreke in their top 50: there's obviously no way to prove this. But anyone that wouldn't have Tyreke in the top 50 players in the NBA needs their head checked. Or alternatively, needs to acknowledge that they're completely biased.

And no he's not a top 50 player. As an example, he's #69 on ESPN's rankings from last year. I don't think this last season would increase his ranking. He was tied for #55 in PER if you want some stats to go with it.

If you give weight to ESPN's rankings, good for you. I don't. They're pretty poor in knowledge when it comes to teams outside of the top few, and I wouldn't expect them to do the necessary research (actually watching games) to determine that Tyreke has NOT regressed, which seems to be the national media's opinion and is supported by some Kings fans such as yourself. PER is pretty useless also. Durant had one of the worst PERs in the league his first couple years. Funny how that worked out.

 

[Gary]

Seriously? If you're going to argue that Tyreke wouldn't be further along now than he is if he'd had good coaching for the first four years of his career instead of a revolving door of highschool level clowns, you're deluded. It's quite simple: either the Kings have been well coached the last few years, or they haven't. It's pretty obvious. You cannot have it both ways. If you believe coaching hasn't played a role in Tyreke's play, we're as well keep Smart, because it's blatantly obvious Tyreke has suffered the most on our team due to pee-poor coaching. But if coaching doesn't matter, why have we gone through coaches like toilet paper? Why were we such a mess last year? And on that note, I'll bow out of this argument. You're seeing what you want to see and nothing else, despite it being right in front of your face. Your posts on this issue never cease to amaze me.

Neither you or I know this. He did a 20-5-5 under a weak coach then regressed under that same coach the following system. So to answer your question? I don't know. I do want him back this year, but as a SG because I like what he did late last year.

Same thing with me brother. Your posts on this subject have me scratching my head as well. I go by what I see and trust that the coaches know more about basketball than any of us here. We don't always have to agree with the coaches, but in the end they most likely know what's best.

I will bow out as well.

As for the ESPN rankings, I didn't even look at them. I haven't even looked at any of the player rankings so I have no idea where Evans is on their lists. I don't put any trust into them either. I could go to every team page and pick players I would rather have over Evans though, but that would take me a while, and it would take this thread even more off track..

Anyhow, back to the draft.. PGPGPGPG Burke plz.

 

[funkykingston]

We are going to find out soon what other GM's think. Let's see what kind of offers he gets.

I don't know that the level of offers Tyreke gets this summer is the best measuring stick for his worth as a player. And I say that because even though I believe Evans can be a very good player in this league, I think if the Kings don't sew him up early he'll get overpaid on the open market.

This offseason is the perfect storm for free agents looking for a payday - lots of teams with caproom (or the ability to clear room) and likely very few (if any) stars available.

The only superstar free agents are Chris Paul and Dwight Howard. The next tier of free agents include Josh Smith, Iguodala, Ginobili, David West, Brandon Jennings, Bynum, Al Jefferson, Tyreke, Monta Ellis and Kevin Martin.

I'd be shocked if Paul didn't resign with the Clippers. I could see Howard going elsewhere but really only Houston and L.A. make sense to me. The Warriors? Only in a sign-and-trade.

Iguodala, Ginobili, & West will likely resign with their clubs and Jennings, Ellis and Martin may as well. The funny thing about ALL of those signings is that none of those teams are the ones with real caproom.

So that very possibly leaves Bynum, Smith, Jefferson and Tyreke Evans as the best available players in free agency and 10-12 teams with the room to offer them $10 million+ a year deals.

I'm pretty sure Tyreke WILL get a big money deal. Whether it will be from the Kings and whether he'll be worth it are up for grabs, but as we've seen time and time again, owners make change after change to stop themselves from overspending and then do it anyway. Half of the players that have been amnestied were done so to free up cash to sign someone else to a big deal as ironic as that is.

This is the dilemma the Kings face. Tyreke has plenty of flaws and he is a player whose skillset means he won't fit in every situation AND the team will likely overpay to keep him. But he's also the Kings 2nd most talented player and an asset they'll lose for nothing if he signs elsewhere. Vivek and co have a number of tough decisions to make to shape the future of this franchise. What they do with Tyreke Evans is certainly near the top of the list.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Neither you or I know this. He did a 20-5-5 under a weak coach then regressed under that same coach the following system. So to answer your question? I don't know. I do want him back this year, but as a SG because I like what he did late last year.

Same thing with me brother. Your posts on this subject have me scratching my head as well. I go by what I see and trust that the coaches know more about basketball than any of us here. We don't always have to agree with the coaches, but in the end they most likely know what's best.

I will bow out as well.

For the record, I'm not necessarily saying put Reke at PG. But he needs to be the main guard and have the ball in his hands. He needs to be used properly, and the last few seasons, he hasn't been. That's what it boils down to.

 

[twslam07]

I don't know that the level of offers Tyreke gets this summer is the best measuring stick for his worth as a player. And I say that because even though I believe Evans can be a very good player in this league, I think if the Kings don't sew him up early he'll get overpaid on the open market.

If we can sign Evans for a similar price to what it cost GSW to retain Curry, I will be ecstatic. Something tells me that it will cost us more to keep him though.

 

[Arco Arena]

I never guessed what he'll get offered. I'm willing to bet some team will get a good deal if he leaves because he's been criminally misused the last few seasons here. What will determine his value is when he has a good coach and is used properly, not some contract offer after he hasn't been allowed to play near to his full potential. But nice try to deflect the real value of Tyreke, which will be proved on the court rather than the amount of $$$ he's offered.

If you give weight to ESPN's rankings, good for you. I don't. They're pretty poor in knowledge when it comes to teams outside of the top few, and I wouldn't expect them to do the necessary research (actually watching games) to determine that Tyreke has NOT regressed, which seems to be the national media's opinion and is supported by some Kings fans such as yourself. PER is pretty useless also. Durant had one of the worst PERs in the league his first couple years. Funny how that worked out.

Value is determined by how much people are willing to pay. Do you really think his potential suitors aren't taking into account his potential and lack of a positive environment? Of course they will, but they will also take into account what he has produced (or not produced) thus far.

A little ignorant to claim all of ESPN to be biased and having poor knowledge outside a "top few" teams. If anything, it shows you are biased. Also, what do you mean Durant had one of the worst PERs in the league? His worst was 15.81 for his rookie season, that's average, and it has climbed as he has improved as a player.

 

[hrdboild]

You know Gary, singling out people who disagree with you on this issue as "pro-Evans" is just admitting openly that you are anti-Evans. I don't see this as a discussion about Evans, though of course he's a big part of it. It's a discussion about what's best for the future of the team. And your comment about George Hill knowing how to win because he's picked up good habits playing for winning teams actually reinforces the point that you're trying to disprove -- coaching does matter. Put Tyreke on those teams and he probably picks up the same habits. Maybe even "learns how to win" himself. And that's what I'm afraid of -- we cut him loose now because he's under-performing and he proves to be every bit as good as we thought he was his rookie year once he's got a competant coach calling the shots for him.

I think it's pretty telling that the Westphal/Smart era has been a collective whiff on all attempts at developing an effective PG on this team. Evans was effective primarily as a scoring catalyst his rookie season, Brooks looked terrible in pretty much every facet of the game (uncharacteristically so even), Jimmer dribbles himself into trouble or takes desperation jumpers, Isaiah Thomas looks more and more like a gunner rather than a playmaker. Toney Douglas ran the position competently in limited minutes but he was exposed to very little of Smart's indoctrination, coming in mid-season. If the PG is the extension of the coach on the court as it's often said that they are, well it's apparent that either Geoff wouldn't know a PG if it stared him in the face or our coaching staff is sending out all sorts of mixed signals about what they want to see offensively. Now if we had a coach in place who has a reputation for developing PGs, like Jerry Sloan or Gregg Popovich, and still we're seeing players who treat the PG position like an open invitation to go one-on-one then I think you'd have a stronger case for the player in question being primarily at fault.

But the main thing that I disagree with in your posts, and even you yourself have admitted that it's reached a level of self-parody at this point, is that you keep saying over and over that Tyreke is not a PG, but it's basically a straw man argument at this point. I haven't seen a lot of people arguing that Tyreke is a PG. I have seen a lot of people arguing that he's best utilized with the ball in his hands, I sentiment that I would agree with, and that means a certain type of player who excels as a finisher or a spot-up shooter or a defensive role-player is a better compliment to his skillset than a traditional PG would be. Trying to reduce everything he does on a basketball court down to a narrowly defined position isn't really productive toward the discussion we are trying to have which is about how everybody on the Kings should be used to best utilize their talent and accordingly what types of players we should be looking to acquire to fill in the gaps. If it makes you happy for people to agree with you, I'll even say it. Tyreke is not a PG. Who cares? He's also not a conventional SG and is equally miscast in that role. And actually, looking around the league I think you'd have a tough time finding enough common traits between every starting PG in the league to clearly define what that position means any more. Equally so for the SG position. So when we try to have a discussion about how to move this team forward and you interject with Tyreke is this and Tyreke isn't that, to me you're not only not helping the discussion, you are actually derailing it.

 

[The_Jamal]

If we can sign Evans for a similar price to what it cost GSW to retain Curry, I will be ecstatic. Something tells me that it will cost us more to keep him though.

4/44 is not a bargain for Reke. That would be a sick overpay

 

[twslam07]

4/44 is not a bargain for Reke. That would be a sick overpay

Unfortunately, I think the market will say otherwise. Obviously, the cheaper we can sign him the better. I'm just afraid we're going to be faced with the choice to fork up 4/68 to match another team's offer sheet.

 

[Bricklayer]

Unfortunately, I think the market will say otherwise. Obviously, the cheaper we can sign him the better. I'm just afraid we're going to be faced with the choice to fork up 4/68 to match another team's offer sheet.

4 for $44 is ok. It could work out if the roels are right.

4 for $68 won't happen. Or would be borderline shocking if it does. That's somebody saying Keith Smart is an even bigger idiot than I think he is, and taking a guy getting 11-12 shots anight and saying he's your franchise guy. I don't see any team out there that desperate.

 

[The_Jamal]

Unfortunately, I think the market will say otherwise. Obviously, the cheaper we can sign him the better. I'm just afraid we're going to be faced with the choice to fork up 4/68 to match another team's offer sheet.

If that's what the market dictates, then we let him walk and move on.