Who is available as 6th-7th pick

[Vlade4GM]

I think Shabazz Muhammad is being overlooked by a lot of people coming into this draft.

Obviously it is hard at this point to make a lot of compelling arguments for him over some of the guys ranked ahead of him, but much like Harrison Barnes last year, or Jrue Holliday a few years back, sometimes people put a lot of weight into a player being mediocre in college and just overlook the fact that they are actually very good players.

But when so much stock is put into the one year of college, I think people tend to forget that theses kids have been evaluated since they were in junior high or earlier, and there was a reason that Shabazz has always been up near the top of the rankings. There is obviously a lot of talent there. I think, especially in this draft, that you are going to see a lot of busts taken before Shabazz, and some GM is going to be sitting there just out of the top ten and will end up looking like a genius for taking him.

Yeah, he did it by bullying HS players with his strength, and we now know he was over a year older than most of them. He hasn't shown he can create off the dribble, he's a below the rim player, shows no defensive intensity, and he's a black hole. He'll probably be a good scorer, and it's not like he can't be a good pick for someone, but he can't do anything else, and we don't need players like that.

Harrison Barnes was rated appropriately, he's now being overrated because of his playoff performance. If you watched his rookie year and thought, that's the guy he was touted to be before entering college, then you're just wrong.

 

[Telemachus]

Yeah, he did it by bullying HS players with his strength, and we now know he was over a year older than most of them. He hasn't shown he can create off the dribble, he's a below the rim player, shows no defensive intensity, and he's a black hole. He'll probably be a good scorer, and it's not like he can't be a good pick for someone, but he can't do anything else, and we don't need players like that.

Harrison Barnes was rated appropriately, he's now being overrated because of his playoff performance. If you watched his rookie year and thought, that's the guy he was touted to be before entering college, then you're just wrong.

I agree with you about Barnes. Throughout the season he was an average player that was played better than I expected, but still was not what he has been billed to be. After the first 2 games against the Spurs, they focused their defense around Curry and Thompson and ignored Barnes for the most part. He was able to put up good numbers while pretty much being unguarded.

 

[bajaden]

Lot of Oladipo love here. Have to say I'm on that boat. He's my favourite player in the draft, I think he's going to be better than projected.

I posted this in another thread but it had the bottom of the page curse so I don't think anyone saw it. Here's a video of him working out a week or two ago:

He's the best interviewer of the class, too. He's very smart and has a huge work ethic. He'd bring a LOT of excitement back to the Kings due to his freak athleticism too which is needed in the first year under new ownership to spark things off. Even though he doesn't play a position of need, depending on where we're picking I'd be inclined to just take him and put 'Reke back to the point, which can work with a good coach. If we keep Smart, forget about winning no matter who we pick.

As you know, I've been a huge Oladipo fan far some time now. If that video doesn't convince some people that this kid is special, then they don't know basketball. I think he's the best all around guard in the draft, and yes, I'd take him over Noel and McLemore. The only player I have on my list above him is Porter, and I'm reaching the point that I'd have to think long and hard about taking Porter over Oladipo. There's just something special about him. In addition to that video, which show his work ethic, and his skill set, I'd like to point out that Oladipo was the best defensive guard in college last year. In general, he guarded the best player on the other teams backcourt, including SF's. He wants to be great, and he realizes that you have to put in the work to become great. Whoever drafts him will be getting a great player in the future, and a very good player in the present. My fear is that some team will pick him in the top 4. I hope just this once, we win the lottery.

 

[bajaden]

I think Shabazz Muhammad is being overlooked by a lot of people coming into this draft.

Obviously it is hard at this point to make a lot of compelling arguments for him over some of the guys ranked ahead of him, but much like Harrison Barnes last year, or Jrue Holliday a few years back, sometimes people put a lot of weight into a player being mediocre in college and just overlook the fact that they are actually very good players.

But when so much stock is put into the one year of college, I think people tend to forget that theses kids have been evaluated since they were in junior high or earlier, and there was a reason that Shabazz has always been up near the top of the rankings. There is obviously a lot of talent there. I think, especially in this draft, that you are going to see a lot of busts taken before Shabazz, and some GM is going to be sitting there just out of the top ten and will end up looking like a genius for taking him.

I watch tons of college basketball, just ask my wife. Tell me, just what am I to judge a player by, if I can't judge him by what my own eyes see? Am I susposed to just read articles written by pundits, who many times haven't seen the player play, and just parrot someone else's opinion. If Muhammad is a great player, or even a good player, then its up to him to show me, and every scout out there that he has what it takes to be just as good in the NBA. Sorry, but he didn't do that. I started watching him play with excited expectations, and all I got was boring disappointment. If you took away all his press clippings, and you didn't know who he was in advance, I doubt you'd be that interested in him. Unless your a UCLA fan of course.

Lets be honest here. He was just OK based on expectations. I can't honestly tell you that he's a better player, or that he will have a better career than Caldwell-Pope, or Hardaway Jr. C.J. McCullum is a more exciting player, and may have a better career. Now I could end up being wrong, and he gets with the right coach and the right orginization and he turns it around. I hope he does, but I'm not going to gamble on it. The dude couldn't even average one assist a game. He does like to shoot the ball. Just ask his teammates...

 

[swisshh]

Oladipo has a strange dribbling technique, but he does bring a lot of skills otherwise. I don't question his shot improvement this year because his shooting form looks good. He looks like a Poppovich player in certain aspects.

The team has a logjam at SG though. If you're adding him then you're subtracting Tyreke or Thornton.

 

[Telemachus]

Oladipo has a strange dribbling technique, but he does bring a lot of skills otherwise. I don't question his shot improvement this year because his shooting form looks good. He looks like a Poppovich player in certain aspects.

The team has a logjam at SG though. If you're adding him then you're subtracting Tyreke or Thornton.

IMO if we draft Oladipo, then Thornton becomes trade bait with IT becoming our main guard off the bench.

 

[jalfa]

I like Schroeder, he's Rondo-esque in a lot of ways, but a backcourt of him and Tyreke? Not a good fit IMO, but fit isn't everything.

that kind of depends on what kind of player you want to see next to Reke. for me, it would be a combo guard that can run the offense, but has no problem letting others run it either, can hit open shots (like Beno) and plays defense well (unlike Beno). Schröder may be a tad too ball dominant right now, but he's a decent shooter, especially off the catch-and-shoot, and could probably be molded into more of a combo-guard willing to defer at times. he checks off most of the things on my list at least.

 

[Vlade4GM]

that kind of depends on what kind of player you want to see next to Reke. for me, it would be a combo guard that can run the offense, but has no problem letting others run it either, can hit open shots (like Beno) and plays defense well (unlike Beno). Schröder may be a tad too ball dominant right now, but he's a decent shooter, especially off the catch-and-shoot, and could probably be molded into more of a combo-guard willing to defer at times. he checks off most of the things on my list at least.

I'm looking at Schroeder right now as someone who will make you regret passing on him.

 

[Darth Divac]

I dislike Rondo. He really isn't as great of a passer as everyone thinks he is, he can't shoot to save his life, and he'll lose his team a game just to get an extra assist.

 

[Gilles]

Schroeder might become quickest PG the moment he steps on the floor, he has excellent handles and decent shot, but his twig frame is scary.

 

[Darth Divac]

Schroeder might become quickest PG the moment he steps on the floor, he has excellent handles and decent shot, but his twig frame is scary.

I weigh more than him, and I'm an inch shorter and 4 years younger.

 

[bajaden]

I weigh more than him, and I'm an inch shorter and 4 years younger.

Can you play PG? Otherwise, it doesn't matter!

 

[Darth Divac]

Can you play PG? Otherwise, it doesn't matter!

I can, actually. I play hoops at my Middle School, and I'm a SG/PG. Mainly scoring, but I am a fair hand at the facilitating game.

 

[twslam07]

I can, actually. I play hoops at my Middle School, and I'm a SG/PG. Mainly scoring, but I am a fair hand at the facilitating game.

You are in middle school and you weigh over 168 pounds?!?! Geez are you sure you aren't the Shaq of your grade? I bet you set some solid screens

 

[Kingsfan23]

I'm a Trey Burke guy.. Not completely sold on him, just like him better than anyone else in the range we're selecting... I guess it depends where we fall in the draft tomorrow

 

[Krunker]

The pundits seem to have the Suns picking Oladipo which if true means we would only have around a 20% chance of a better pick. Actually if we beat the Suns it would probably mean we got a pick in the top 3 so then it might be Noel. Oh well, we'll know a lot more tomorrow.

 

[jalfa]

I dislike Rondo. He really isn't as great of a passer as everyone thinks he is, he can't shoot to save his life, and he'll lose his team a game just to get an extra assist.

what does that have to do with anything?

 

[Megalodon]

I can, actually. I play hoops at my Middle School, and I'm a SG/PG. Mainly scoring, but I am a fair hand at the facilitating game.

How can you remember vlade?

 

[xyrin]

I dislike Rondo. He really isn't as great of a passer as everyone thinks he is, he can't shoot to save his life, and he'll lose his team a game just to get an extra assist.

Not only is this irrelevant, but it is akin to when people refused to trade Tyreke+5 for Tony Parker when it was rumored. You need to open your eyes and realize that talent is talent. Rondo (or Parker) would instantly be the best player on our team if he came here.

 

[Dime Dropper]

Not only is this irrelevant, but it is akin to when people refused to trade Tyreke+5 for Tony Parker when it was rumored. You need to open your eyes and realize that talent is talent. Rondo (or Parker) would instantly be the best player on our team if he came here.

That certainly would have been a ridiculous trade on our part, and I'm glad we didn't do it.

 

[Padrino]

Not only is this irrelevant, but it is akin to when people refused to trade Tyreke+5 for Tony Parker when it was rumored. You need to open your eyes and realize that talent is talent. Rondo (or Parker) would instantly be the best player on our team if he came here.

of parker, i would absolutely agree. of rondo, i'm not so sure. he has a gift for exploiting defenses with the pass, and he's an exceptional man defender amongst guards, but he gives you very little else. he can get to the rim occasionally, but in a league of evolving combo guards, rondo is actually a bit too old school in style, in my opinion. he's also a 7-year veteran. he doesn't have much growing left to do as an nba player. so, yes, if rondo were to come to sacramento, he may very well be instantly recognized as "the best player on our team," but, when considering the ceilings of demarcus cousins and tyreke evans, you have to wonder if such a designation would hold up for long. even tyreke is developing an adequate outside shot (having shot 34% from 3 this past season), whereas rondo is a career 24% 3-pt. shooter...

edit: and this is not meant to dismiss rondo's talent. he's a tremendous player, but, for me, the lines start to blur when you talk about "tyreke+5," etc, when attempting to acquire an established star. often, it's more useful to properly develop your own talent in-house, particularly if that talent exists along the potential of a "star" trajectory. in the kings' case, that means committing to the development of demarcus cousins and tyreke evans, as san antonio committed to parker, as boston committed to rondo. outside of his rookie season, 'reke has not been given the room to operate, to grow, that these other star players have...

 

[Darth Divac]

You are in middle school and you weigh over 168 pounds?!?! Geez are you sure you aren't the Shaq of your grade? I bet you set some solid screens

Well, just 173. I remind you, I'm 6/2. And yes, I do set solid screens.

 

[funkykingston]

Even in a weak draft I'm as excited about tonight's draft lottery as I have been in a long time. Mostly because I'm cautiously optimistic that the new ownership group will have this team on an upward arc soon.

Also because I think the guys I like most in this draft will be gone before the 6th or 7th pick so landing in the top three could be huge.

In addition to where the Kings get slotted in the draft the two next biggest questions are (1) do they/can they resign Tyreke? and (2) if so, do you play him as the primary ballhandler or do you play him next to a more traditional PG?

Personally, I'm very much in favor of the former. I like the idea of a bigger, more defensive team where Tyreke has a physical advantage on both ends over the guy guarding him with a SG who is big and/or physical enough to make teams pay for switching defensively.

Others obviously will disagree. Either way, the Kings needs going into the offseason are pretty obvious. We need a quality SF, a defensive/shotblocking PF or C and a guard to either pair with Tyreke or replace him.

Fortunately, most of the consensus best players in this draft also fill roles we need and the ones that don't are guys I personally am not high on anyway.

Noel
Porter
Oladipo
McLemore
and Burke

are all guys that could fit on the Kings. Len, Zeller and Bennett are all guys I wouldn't want next to Cousins. Personally I don't want Burke either for the reasons I explained above, but he's certainly the best regarded PG in this draft.

There's a chance that one of those 5 guys falls to the Kings if they end up at 6 but certainly we'd be better off with a top 3 pick.

Me personally I'd love to see the Kings draft Noel and then trade into the late first (Jimmer + their 2nd rounder?) for Allen Crabbe. The Kings would still need a SF (trade Thornton & filler?) but it would fill two holes IMO.

But of course, that's all dependent on the Kings wanting to keep Tyreke and use him as the pseudo PG which will depend on organizational mindset which itself will largely be a byproduct of the coach and GM. And who knows how that will shape up. Hell, as much as it pains me to type it there's still a chance Petrie and (worse yet) Smart return next season.

Lots of moving parts. Tonight's lottery will give a small bit of clarification. The moves that Vivek and co make once the sale is finalized should make things a lot clearer still.

 

[Darth Divac]

Even in a weak draft I'm as excited about tonight's draft lottery as I have been in a long time. Mostly because I'm cautiously optimistic that the new ownership group will have this team on an upward arc soon.

Also because I think the guys I like most in this draft will be gone before the 6th or 7th pick so landing in the top three could be huge.

In addition to where the Kings get slotted in the draft the two next biggest questions are (1) do they/can they resign Tyreke? and (2) if so, do you play him as the primary ballhandler or do you play him next to a more traditional PG?

Personally, I'm very much in favor of the former. I like the idea of a bigger, more defensive team where Tyreke has a physical advantage on both ends over the guy guarding him with a SG who is big and/or physical enough to make teams pay for switching defensively.

Others obviously will disagree. Either way, the Kings needs going into the offseason are pretty obvious. We need a quality SF, a defensive/shotblocking PF or C and a guard to either pair with Tyreke or replace him.

Fortunately, most of the consensus best players in this draft also fill roles we need and the ones that don't are guys I personally am not high on anyway.

Noel
Porter
Oladipo
McLemore
and Burke

are all guys that could fit on the Kings. Len, Zeller and Bennett are all guys I wouldn't want next to Cousins. Personally I don't want Burke either for the reasons I explained above, but he's certainly the best regarded PG in this draft.

There's a chance that one of those 5 guys falls to the Kings if they end up at 6 but certainly we'd be better off with a top 3 pick.

Me personally I'd love to see the Kings draft Noel and then trade into the late first (Jimmer + their 2nd rounder?) for Allen Crabbe. The Kings would still need a SF (trade Thornton & filler?) but it would fill two holes IMO.

But of course, that's all dependent on the Kings wanting to keep Tyreke and use him as the pseudo PG which will depend on organizational mindset which itself will largely be a byproduct of the coach and GM. And who knows how that will shape up. Hell, as much as it pains me to type it there's still a chance Petrie and (worse yet) Smart return next season.

Lots of moving parts. Tonight's lottery will give a small bit of clarification. The moves that Vivek and co make once the sale is finalized should make things a lot clearer still.

I'd rather we landed Porter instead of Noel, then traded Jimmer+2nd rounder for Crabbe, and traded for a shotblocker (Derrick Favors?) of some sort.

 

[hrdboild]

I agree with most of what funkykingston said there. I'm not really high on Burke, Len, Bennett, or Zeller either. I'm hoping some of them slip into the top 5 if we're still picking at 6 and we somehow get a chance to draft Oladipo or Porter. I'd also love to see us pick up a late first round pick and Crabbe would be one of my targets. Also Tony Mitchell, Adetokoubo (if he lasts that long), CJ Leslie, Myck Kabongo. It'll be much easier to have this discussion once we know what the final draft order is.

And if we do get a top 3 pick (fingers crossed) I think you still have to go with Noel first. It's not easy to find a dominant shotblocker in free agency. Look what DeAndre Jordan commanded in the open market and he's not even that good. Porter is good, but it's easier to find a SF in free agency. There's a surplus of young talent at that position if you can pry some of it loose. Minnesota doesn't seem all that high on Williams for instance. And Orlando eventually has to make a decision on who to keep between Tobias Harris and Moe Harkless. And when the 2014 draft hits, all those SFs have to play somewhere which means the guys currently occupying those positions will be forced out. I'd be thrilled to have Porter, but he's not a must-draft.

And lastly, this has already been beat to death, but count me on the list of people calling Oladipo their favorite prospect in the draft. He's a perfect SG -- unselfish, good shooter, great defender, great athlete. Plus he's just flat-out fun to watch. Maybe not an ideal fit for us position-wise, but we need a player like that on our roster and I could see him playing next to Tyreke for a quality NBA coach.

 

[gunks]

Reke/Oladipo would be bruiser bros in the backcourt, fun as hell. Also...Oladipo has a 42' vert.


We would probably need a "point foward" at the 3, or a big man who knows how to pass (waitaminute! Cousins can pass!). Perhaps run a princeton or triangle offense, where guard playmaking abilities and the need for a "true" pg are diminished. A legit coach will go a long way with this squad.

 

[Darth Divac]

And Orlando eventually has to make a decision on who to keep between Tobias Harris and Moe Harkless.

Actually, Harris is a PF and Harkless is a SF.

 

[Darth Divac]

We would probably need a "point foward" at the 3, or a big man who knows how to pass (waitaminute! Cousins can pass!). Perhaps run a princeton or triangle offense, where guard playmaking abilities and the need for a "true" pg are diminished. A legit coach will go a long way with this squad.

Adelman?

 

[The_Jamal]

Reke/Oladipo would be bruiser bros in the backcourt, fun as hell. Also...Oladipo has a 42' vert.


We would probably need a "point foward" at the 3, or a big man who knows how to pass (waitaminute! Cousins can pass!). Perhaps run a princeton or triangle offense, where guard playmaking abilities and the need for a "true" pg are diminished. A legit coach will go a long way with this squad.

The "true PG" is a virtually extinct position. Nash, Rubio, Calderon, and Rondo are the only guys left who fit that "traditional" mold of a PG.

With a guy like Oladipo, I'd be more than willing to give Reke burn at PG again.

 

[Padrino]

The "true PG" is a virtually extinct position. Nash, Rubio, Calderon, and Rondo are the only guys left who fit that "traditional" mold of a PG.

With a guy like Oladipo, I'd be more than willing to give Reke burn at PG again.

i must admit that i, too, am tantalized by the prospect. i've long maintained that the 'REKE-ISN'T-A-PG!!!!!!!111!!!!!!11!!! chants are so ridiculously inflated, especially given that PG, as a position, has evolved dramatically in the contemporary nba. tyreke will never be a high volume assist man, but he can very effectively run an offense, despite what the detractors say. and if you have a center like demarcus that can occasionally initiate the offense from the high post, and if you bring in a SF who can initiate from time to time, as well (a la doug christie), it doesn't matter so much that you don't have the mythical "true PG" that so many at kf.com have been clamoring for since ricky rubio entered the draft...