City council vote and latest news, rumors, etc.
- Thread starter VF21
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Um, what? Woj is probably the most reliable reporter that there is. He's pretty much never wrong.
That said, although the lower offer does make me somewhat nervous (as in theory it could be used as justification for the NBA approving the Seattle bid), you have to believe that they've done the necessary background work and know that it's enough. Surely they would not risk losing the team over a few million, which is not going to be a lot in the grand scheme of things.
If Mark Mastrov's net worth is $350 million, how can he purchase the team and have the money required to run the franchise?
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/ceos/mark-mastrov-net-worth/
http://www.celebritynetworth.com/richest-businessmen/ceos/mark-mastrov-net-worth/
I don't think that report is accurate simply based on this widely reported information:
What, you guys are trying to say celebritynetworth.com is not an accurate source for how much money people have?
I think the $50MM in corporate sponsorships IN ADDITION to the $20MM in season tickets is huge. HUGE. They did that with no advertising. No sales team. Also I know for a fact that many of the main corporations based in the greater Sacramento area are not a part of that $50MM because they could not publicly be a part of something like this, and if the Kings stay they will be.
I guess the one downside is the WNBA may come back, but I guess that is a sacrifice I'm willing to live with.
I think the $50MM in corporate sponsorships IN ADDITION to the $20MM in season tickets is huge. HUGE. They did that with no advertising. No sales team. Also I know for a fact that many of the main corporations based in the greater Sacramento area are not a part of that $50MM because they could not publicly be a part of something like this, and if the Kings stay they will be.
I guess the one downside is the WNBA may come back, but I guess that is a sacrifice I'm willing to live with.
The problem here is that we don't know, in any way, how the city loan is dealt with in the Hansen offer, or if it is dealt with.
The loan is not to the Maloofs proper, it is to the team. The Maloofs actually inherited that loan when they bought the team and under normal circumstances it would stay with the team upon the sale. So I find it difficult to believe that the Hansen sale would be structured in such a way that the Maloofs, and not Hansen, are the ones who are forced to pay off the loan if the team moves to Seattle.
My default assumption is that Hansen will be on the hook for that loan, and that therefore there is no net $70M in the bargain for a local group.
However, it is possible that Hansen's "real" bid is for the controlling shares is $241M, which would put the full value of the team at $371M - for a team that is not debt-free. To be honest, that's probably a more realistic view of the value of the team. Hansen would be on the hook for $70M in debt, and an estimated $30M relocation fee, so the total cost would be $341M. But, to make it look like the total valuation of the franchise is higher (whoa, $525M!!), Hansen might toss that $100M into the bid for the team on the condition that the sale is not final until after the Maloofs move the team to Seattle. Let us note that the Maloofs, not Hansen, filed for relocation a while ago. So, the Maloofs have to pay the estimated $30M relocation fee (and hence the non-refundable $30M pre-payment from Hansen) and also have to pay off the loan because it comes due when they own the team. Then the sale becomes final and they net $241M.
If the deal is structured like that - done in a way to absolutely maximize the apparent value of the franchise by shifting non-ownership costs into the team valuation - then there's a great argument that the Mastrov bid doesn't need to be as high as the Hansen bid. If Mastrov were willing to accept the city loan as a part of the team (obviously it won't come due immediately if the Kings stay at STA while a new arena is being built), then a bid that is $100M short is actually the same thing.
The big thing, we have absolutely no idea whether the Hansen offer is in fact structured like that. It makes some sense, but it's pure speculation and I'd lean against this being the true explanation.
If, on the other hand, Hansen planned to deal with the city loan and relocation on his own, then there's no bargain to be had for local owners. In that case, any amount less than $341M (or any amount less than $311M if the non-refundable money that Hansen deposited truly is non-refundable and the Maloofs keep it) would potentially constitute real damages to the Maloofs and give them standing to file an anti-trust lawsuit if the NBA ruled against them. And if the NBA loses that lawsuit, they have to pay treble damages. So if Mastrov comes in at $337M, the Maloofs could potentially sue and win $12M from the league. The league would definitely have to consider that when making a decision.
In the end, I'm a bit uncomfortable about the Mastrov bid reportedly coming in under the Hansen bid, but let's wait to see how it plays out. But if the Mastrov bid comes in at $241M, I think we know exactly what is going on.
The loan is not to the Maloofs proper, it is to the team. The Maloofs actually inherited that loan when they bought the team and under normal circumstances it would stay with the team upon the sale. So I find it difficult to believe that the Hansen sale would be structured in such a way that the Maloofs, and not Hansen, are the ones who are forced to pay off the loan if the team moves to Seattle.
My default assumption is that Hansen will be on the hook for that loan, and that therefore there is no net $70M in the bargain for a local group.
However, it is possible that Hansen's "real" bid is for the controlling shares is $241M, which would put the full value of the team at $371M - for a team that is not debt-free. To be honest, that's probably a more realistic view of the value of the team. Hansen would be on the hook for $70M in debt, and an estimated $30M relocation fee, so the total cost would be $341M. But, to make it look like the total valuation of the franchise is higher (whoa, $525M!!), Hansen might toss that $100M into the bid for the team on the condition that the sale is not final until after the Maloofs move the team to Seattle. Let us note that the Maloofs, not Hansen, filed for relocation a while ago. So, the Maloofs have to pay the estimated $30M relocation fee (and hence the non-refundable $30M pre-payment from Hansen) and also have to pay off the loan because it comes due when they own the team. Then the sale becomes final and they net $241M.
If the deal is structured like that - done in a way to absolutely maximize the apparent value of the franchise by shifting non-ownership costs into the team valuation - then there's a great argument that the Mastrov bid doesn't need to be as high as the Hansen bid. If Mastrov were willing to accept the city loan as a part of the team (obviously it won't come due immediately if the Kings stay at STA while a new arena is being built), then a bid that is $100M short is actually the same thing.
The big thing, we have absolutely no idea whether the Hansen offer is in fact structured like that. It makes some sense, but it's pure speculation and I'd lean against this being the true explanation.
If, on the other hand, Hansen planned to deal with the city loan and relocation on his own, then there's no bargain to be had for local owners. In that case, any amount less than $341M (or any amount less than $311M if the non-refundable money that Hansen deposited truly is non-refundable and the Maloofs keep it) would potentially constitute real damages to the Maloofs and give them standing to file an anti-trust lawsuit if the NBA ruled against them. And if the NBA loses that lawsuit, they have to pay treble damages. So if Mastrov comes in at $337M, the Maloofs could potentially sue and win $12M from the league. The league would definitely have to consider that when making a decision.
In the end, I'm a bit uncomfortable about the Mastrov bid reportedly coming in under the Hansen bid, but let's wait to see how it plays out. But if the Mastrov bid comes in at $241M, I think we know exactly what is going on.
I would not be surprised if someone on the KJ/Burkle/Mastrov team has gotten their mitts on a copy, either from the bankruptcy court or elsewhere. For all we know, David Stern was making a photocopy of the offer for his records when he spilled coffee on his shirt...when he went to the bathroom to clean up he absentmindedly left the offer in the copy machine...
From Kevin Johnson:
Carmichael Dave @CarmichaelDave
BREAKING: Bob Cook willing to speak to Burkle-Mastrov group to exit bankruptcy, fold shares into ownership group. Talks today.
Significance of that is Hansen group would be undercut, and not have access to Cook auction, eliminating competition for shares.
I have also been informed that Bob Cook also retains first right of refusal clause
BREAKING: Bob Cook willing to speak to Burkle-Mastrov group to exit bankruptcy, fold shares into ownership group. Talks today.
Significance of that is Hansen group would be undercut, and not have access to Cook auction, eliminating competition for shares.
I have also been informed that Bob Cook also retains first right of refusal clause
Just saw that myself - if true, this is in the bag.
Per the SacBee this morning:
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Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/01/5228653/proud-day-for-sacramento-mastrov.html#storylink=cpy
Per the SacBee this morning:
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Read more here: http://www.sacbee.com/2013/03/01/5228653/proud-day-for-sacramento-mastrov.html#storylink=cpy
Exactly! The shares on face value are now probably worth between 30-40 mill, given their leverage value conceivably a lot more at auction. So depending on how deep Cook is in debt a check for 50 or so million to get him out of bankruptcy should get the job done then he can sell some or all of his shares back once the deal goes down.
I've read a lot of this thread and for once the minitiae of deals, whether it be trades, a comparison of Tyreke and IT, or a business deal has numbed my brain. I want to duplicate the sentiment of VF21 that any deal this late in the game has been thought over in detail with essentially nothing left out. KJ has made no mistakes so far and has been in contact with Stern frequently. Let us also remember that Burkle and Stern met together recently.
I have absolute faith that every contingency has been covered. As Stern is on our side, and I don't think that is arguable, I don't think he would give bad advice to Burkle or KJ. Heck, he sent a crew to over see the operation of the Kings for awhile. That's a lot of support from Stern and the NBA who foot the bills for such ventures.
The deal with the arena will work and is not as crucial as the deal with Mastrov as there are no competitors except the CAVE people. I am not saying the deal about the arena will be easy as big projects are not easy but at least there is no competition. Besides, all the work has been done with the input of the NBA and this project involves Burkle who obviously has a great track record.
I am absolutely sure Mastrov and the group he represents, if that is the case, has put in a solid bid. Let us remember this is not a race for the biggest bid as Stern has axed that idea with his comment that "economics do not matter." The amount of the offer may matter to the Maloofs but not to the NBA and in the end, it is the NBA that counts. Mastrov can come in high or he can come in low in comparison to Hansen/Ballmer but whatever the amount is, it is an amount that Mastrov/KJ/etc. were advised to offer probably by the Commish and Bennett themselves. I do not think anyone absolutely is clear what the numbers are as a bid to keep the team in Sacramento and a bid to move the team can be very different things because of the extra expense of moving. There are also minority partners involved to make it difficult to understand. Comparing the two may be fair but also can be very confusing and this is where my mind goes numb with the educated conjecture I have read and I take heart in the basic idea that KJ, Burkle, and Mastrov would absolutely not come up short. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised with all the lobbying by KJ, the involvement of Clay Bennett, etc. that most of the votes are already in place. That may be wishfull thinking but it is possible. KJ was not shooting buckets at the All Star game for example. He was lobbying.
So I say we should be very happy with a certain sense of confidence. We have done everything we were asked and more. The "and more" may be the clincher. I will not breath easy until the final decision is made but I am REALLY breathing easy now.
Bravo Kings and good for us.
I have absolute faith that every contingency has been covered. As Stern is on our side, and I don't think that is arguable, I don't think he would give bad advice to Burkle or KJ. Heck, he sent a crew to over see the operation of the Kings for awhile. That's a lot of support from Stern and the NBA who foot the bills for such ventures.
The deal with the arena will work and is not as crucial as the deal with Mastrov as there are no competitors except the CAVE people.
I am not saying the deal about the arena will be easy as big projects are not easy but at least there is no competition. Besides, all the work has been done with the input of the NBA and this project involves Burkle who obviously has a great track record. I am absolutely sure Mastrov and the group he represents, if that is the case, has put in a solid bid. Let us remember this is not a race for the biggest bid as Stern has axed that idea with his comment that "economics do not matter." The amount of the offer may matter to the Maloofs but not to the NBA and in the end, it is the NBA that counts. Mastrov can come in high or he can come in low in comparison to Hansen/Ballmer but whatever the amount is, it is an amount that Mastrov/KJ/etc. were advised to offer probably by the Commish and Bennett themselves. I do not think anyone absolutely is clear what the numbers are as a bid to keep the team in Sacramento and a bid to move the team can be very different things because of the extra expense of moving. There are also minority partners involved to make it difficult to understand. Comparing the two may be fair but also can be very confusing and this is where my mind goes numb with the educated conjecture I have read and I take heart in the basic idea that KJ, Burkle, and Mastrov would absolutely not come up short. TBH, I wouldn't be surprised with all the lobbying by KJ, the involvement of Clay Bennett, etc. that most of the votes are already in place. That may be wishfull thinking but it is possible. KJ was not shooting buckets at the All Star game for example. He was lobbying.
So I say we should be very happy with a certain sense of confidence. We have done everything we were asked and more. The "and more" may be the clincher. I will not breath easy until the final decision is made but I am REALLY breathing easy now.
Bravo Kings and good for us.
I agree with your post in general.
I would put my feelings as nervously and cautiously positive that the Kings will stay. I think that KJ has put a lot of thought into this and the team we have on Sacramento's side is SMART and not prone to making mistakes. They must feel pretty strongly that they can pull this off. At this point it is good enough for me. I am eager to see what comes to light over the next month and see what the vote is by the BOG.
I would put my feelings as nervously and cautiously positive that the Kings will stay. I think that KJ has put a lot of thought into this and the team we have on Sacramento's side is SMART and not prone to making mistakes. They must feel pretty strongly that they can pull this off. At this point it is good enough for me. I am eager to see what comes to light over the next month and see what the vote is by the BOG.
Proclaiming Mastrov as leading the effort to bid on the Kings was a facade for the Maloofs. It's been well documented that they cant stand Burkle and actually have a cordial relationship with Mastrov. Breaking out Mastrov as the man who wants to buy from the Maloofs and Burkle as leading the arena efforts allows the Maloofs to ease on their pre-teen grudges.
We should not worry one bit about capital being an issue here, nor should it be an issue in regards to payroll or anything of that sort. The ownership is being "led" by Mastrov, but it was mentioned how Burkle will still be contributing, just as how Mastrov will be contributing to the arena deal.
Also, Mastrov is easily worth $1.5 bil+. If he was worth $350 mil like some seattlites are saying, how on earth would he bid $420 million on the Warriors?
We should not worry one bit about capital being an issue here, nor should it be an issue in regards to payroll or anything of that sort. The ownership is being "led" by Mastrov, but it was mentioned how Burkle will still be contributing, just as how Mastrov will be contributing to the arena deal.
Also, Mastrov is easily worth $1.5 bil+. If he was worth $350 mil like some seattlites are saying, how on earth would he bid $420 million on the Warriors?
Still think FRoR is not really going to play a big hand in this deal. I'm leaning towards the Sacramento group favored over Hansen/Ballmer because all things being equal, you don't approve a relocation. And I'm becoming more confident these bids are going to fairly equal. I think the Bob Cook ownership will come into play, post BOG decision. I like the idea of Bob Cook percentage going to the local group. But for the sake of being assured that ownership is safe, it will be post BOG. There is a chance they can work out a deal to bail out Cook sooner. But no assurance that money won't be lost if Hansen wins. I think what James Ham said about the cash call to wipe out their holding is a legit deterrent.
Carmichael Dave is tweeting quite a bit on this.
Carmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
I would also like to bet with Bucher, Ratto, or any other major media member:Provided Sacto arena plan is finalized by mid April,kings stay.
1 minGrant Napear @GrantNapearshow
For people asking..Brooks was saying goodbye to teammates in hotel lobby and then got into elevator with me. Seemed pretty happy.
5 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@TYLERJERDE: @CarmichaelDave: what is the chances 20%?” If city get arena deal in time? ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Mark it down.
5 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Maloofs will not bark because the money stays the same, Hansen is patient and smart- wont bark because the NBA won't be strong armed.
6 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Seattle has a phenomena group and plan, and will most likely be informed that they will have a team one way or another when new arena opens.
6 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
NBA owners will not choose to set precedent of city providing subsidy and meeting every goal to be left in lurch. Doesn't make sense to them
7 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
More than likely, Mastrov group would refinance city loan when new arena opens, prepay penalty drops dramatically in 3 years.
8 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
"@sna23: @CarmichaelDave I should say. Which of those debts remain with Mastrov bid?” Refi of City loan upon open of new arena.
9 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Tahitilover: @CarmichaelDave How does it get decided prior to BOG?” Settlement between all parties, 30mil from Mastrov refunded 2Hansen
9 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Folsom_Dave: @CarmichaelDave Are we looking at the same 7 CMs being in support of KJ's plan moving forward?” Probably 8, Fong switching
10 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
.@MMM_Cubed @bgpappa @willymopena So then you're aware of the NBA "Best interests" clause + the 140 million Maloof debt to NBA as well?
15 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
It's not a done deal. That has to be understood. Big hurdles with arena plan, not easy. BUT- Sac has the ball and control of its destiny.
17 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@JD_Uppal: @CarmichaelDave when do you est. first Kings game in new ESC” 15-16
23 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
.@MMM_Cubed its about Mastrov matching NET to Maloofs, not what Hansen is doing. Not privy to Hansen parameters.
24 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@WillyMoPena: @CarmichaelDave how do you know? Have you seen the Hansen's bid???” I have been informed of NBA parameters per Mastrov bid
25 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@DaRealBradC: @CarmichaelDave do u still believe we will know the end before the BOG on april 18?” Yes I do
25 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Maxaria: @CarmichaelDave What, if any, would be the biggest concern or hurdle going forward?” City council, but not really
28 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Mastrov doesn't have to factor city loan (he assumes loan) or relo fee. So NET to Maloofs is dead on. Gotta dig a tad deeper.
28 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
1st off, Woj report. He's almost got it. Hansen deal isn't 65% of 525. It's 525-30 mil relo-77 city loan - 140 NBA debt.
33 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@SacServer: @j_moaney22 @CarmichaelDave Amik reports April 2nd city council will see arena plan” Sam iz berry smart
34 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@mtmoore55: @CarmichaelDave learn something new or is this your own conclusion?” Just was walked down the path
34 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Maxaria: @CarmichaelDave I believe too! When will we know for sure, in your opinion?” 4/1-4/19
36 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Fire away
37 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
If an arena deal is passed, there WILL be Kings basketball in Sacramento next season. Bookmark this tweet.
38 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
I believe I now know the end game. It all makes sense. I believe, truly, Sacramento controls its own destiny 100%. They solidify plan- done.
53 minsGrant Napear @GrantNapearshow
Coming up at 3:00 today I'm going to tell you why the Kings are staying in Sac. CBS Sports1140...CAN NOT WAIT!!!!!!!
Carmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
I would also like to bet with Bucher, Ratto, or any other major media member:Provided Sacto arena plan is finalized by mid April,kings stay.
1 minGrant Napear @GrantNapearshow
For people asking..Brooks was saying goodbye to teammates in hotel lobby and then got into elevator with me. Seemed pretty happy.
5 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@TYLERJERDE: @CarmichaelDave: what is the chances 20%?” If city get arena deal in time? ONE HUNDRED PERCENT. Mark it down.
5 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Maloofs will not bark because the money stays the same, Hansen is patient and smart- wont bark because the NBA won't be strong armed.
6 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Seattle has a phenomena group and plan, and will most likely be informed that they will have a team one way or another when new arena opens.
6 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
NBA owners will not choose to set precedent of city providing subsidy and meeting every goal to be left in lurch. Doesn't make sense to them
7 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
More than likely, Mastrov group would refinance city loan when new arena opens, prepay penalty drops dramatically in 3 years.
8 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
"@sna23: @CarmichaelDave I should say. Which of those debts remain with Mastrov bid?” Refi of City loan upon open of new arena.
9 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Tahitilover: @CarmichaelDave How does it get decided prior to BOG?” Settlement between all parties, 30mil from Mastrov refunded 2Hansen
9 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Folsom_Dave: @CarmichaelDave Are we looking at the same 7 CMs being in support of KJ's plan moving forward?” Probably 8, Fong switching
10 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
.@MMM_Cubed @bgpappa @willymopena So then you're aware of the NBA "Best interests" clause + the 140 million Maloof debt to NBA as well?
15 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
It's not a done deal. That has to be understood. Big hurdles with arena plan, not easy. BUT- Sac has the ball and control of its destiny.
17 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@JD_Uppal: @CarmichaelDave when do you est. first Kings game in new ESC” 15-16
23 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
.@MMM_Cubed its about Mastrov matching NET to Maloofs, not what Hansen is doing. Not privy to Hansen parameters.
24 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@WillyMoPena: @CarmichaelDave how do you know? Have you seen the Hansen's bid???” I have been informed of NBA parameters per Mastrov bid
25 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@DaRealBradC: @CarmichaelDave do u still believe we will know the end before the BOG on april 18?” Yes I do
25 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Maxaria: @CarmichaelDave What, if any, would be the biggest concern or hurdle going forward?” City council, but not really
28 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Mastrov doesn't have to factor city loan (he assumes loan) or relo fee. So NET to Maloofs is dead on. Gotta dig a tad deeper.
28 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
1st off, Woj report. He's almost got it. Hansen deal isn't 65% of 525. It's 525-30 mil relo-77 city loan - 140 NBA debt.
33 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@SacServer: @j_moaney22 @CarmichaelDave Amik reports April 2nd city council will see arena plan” Sam iz berry smart
34 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@mtmoore55: @CarmichaelDave learn something new or is this your own conclusion?” Just was walked down the path
34 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
“@Maxaria: @CarmichaelDave I believe too! When will we know for sure, in your opinion?” 4/1-4/19
36 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
Fire away
37 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
If an arena deal is passed, there WILL be Kings basketball in Sacramento next season. Bookmark this tweet.
38 minsCarmichael Dave@CarmichaelDave
I believe I now know the end game. It all makes sense. I believe, truly, Sacramento controls its own destiny 100%. They solidify plan- done.
53 minsGrant Napear @GrantNapearshow
Coming up at 3:00 today I'm going to tell you why the Kings are staying in Sac. CBS Sports1140...CAN NOT WAIT!!!!!!!
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