[Grades] Grades v. Wizards 01/28/13

-10 rebs again. Assuming no trades, how would you fix the rebounding problems?

  • Make Cuz take his vitamins.

    Votes: 12 30.8%
  • More productivity out of JT (5 reb tonight)

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • More minutes for JT.

    Votes: 2 5.1%
  • Start TRob (3reb in 28min tonight)

    Votes: 6 15.4%
  • Start Johnson at SF.

    Votes: 5 12.8%
  • Start Reke at PG.

    Votes: 8 20.5%

  • Total voters
    39
  • Poll closed .
Status
Not open for further replies.

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#61
He's a head case Baja! I've been trying to tell you this for months!
The difference between you and I, is that you have an agenda, and I don't. Believe me, I recognize that he has problems. Thats not a revelation, and at times its very decerning. But I also recognize the talent he has, and that the talent is currently married to an emotional immature young man. Fortunately for me, when I was his age, and I was just as emotional, my great aunt that was raising me, didn't throw me away. She had faith that one day the lights would go on, and I might actually contribute to society.

Now if your to ask me if the risk will be worth the reward, I can't answer that. I don't know, and neither do you. So you either take the gamble that one day you'll have one of, if not the best center in the NBA, or a troubled discontent. Since talent like Cousins doesn't come along that often, I would rather take the risk. From that prespective, I certainly hope that I'm right and your wrong. Nothing personal!
 
#63
So you disagree that he's a head case?
What makes your faculty so sound that you can consistently label Cousins behavior and label other forumers as "weak minded"?

Cousins is in his early 20s, not everyone matures/grows/behaves the same way. He is playing a game in front of cameras, and tends to be a bit pouty/emotional sometimes. He isn't out committing crimes against others, he's emotional during a ......basketball....game..... get over it.
 
#64
So you disagree that he's a head case?
yup. latrell sprewell was a headcase. he was also a 4-time all star. zach randolph was a headcase, but he has since ironed out his problems, and is now a 2-time all star on one of the best teams in the western conference. demarcus cousins is, on the other hand, merely an immature 22-year-old, and one with more potential than you give up on just because he has a tendency to pout. he's not choking his head coach. he's not helping his team earn a "jailblazers" moniker. he's not speeding, not drinking and driving, not knifing people in clubs, not being accused of sexual harassment, not engaging in any of the unsavory activities that typically earn athletes a "head case" tag. to me, demarcus cousins appears to be a good kid with good intentions who hasn't yet learned how to be a man, and is struggling in his journey towards adulthood. with the proper guidance, there is absolutely no reason he can't be molded into one of the league's best big men. and here's the good news, friend: the kings are for sale. they will be bought by an owner with deep pockets who will hopefully have a much better idea of how to help cousins succeed in a grown *** man's league. but here's what you don't do: you don't surround him with an inexperienced coaching staff and an army of midget chuckers. you don't design a gameplan that fails to effectively maximize his talent. you don't further alienate him by refusing to have his back during moments of crisis, on the court or off. jesus christ, he's 22 years old!! some kids need more help than others. it's not rocket science. there's no need to baby him, but there is a need to give over necessary attention to his development, both as a player and as a man...

edit: and this, for the record, is quite possibly the reason i miss rick adelman the most. does chris webber realize his full potential without a head coach who understands how to manage difficult but talented players? does then-ron artest, who consistently cites RA's influence as a turning point in his nba career? does bonzi wells, who had his best stretch as an nba player under adelman before unintentionally exiling himself from the league? the list of talents (and even the list of not-so-talenteds) that rick adelman has gotten the most out of just goes on and on and on. demarcus cousins may never become what we hope he will in sacramento. he may need to move on before he realizes the highest peaks of his potential. but if i'm running the show, i don't take the chance that some other team with some other coach is going to evolve cousins into the league's best center for the next decade. i do whatever it takes to make it happen here...
 
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Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#65
yup. latrell sprewell was a headcase. he was also a 4-time all star. zach randolph was a headcase, but he has since ironed out his problems, and is now a 2-time all star on one of the best teams in the western conference. demarcus cousins is, on the other hand, merely an immature 22-year-old, and one with more potential than you give up on just because he has a tendency to pout. he's not choking his head coach. he's not helping his team earn a "jailblazers" moniker. he's not speeding, not drinking and driving, not knifing people in clubs, not being accused of sexual harassment, not engaging in any of the unsavory activities that typically earn athletes a "head case" tag. to me, demarcus cousins appears to be a good kid with good intentions who hasn't yet learned how to be a man, and is struggling in his journey towards adulthood. with the proper guidance, there is absolutely no reason he can't be molded into one of the league's best big men. and here's the good news, friend: the kings are for sale. they will be bought by an owner with deep pockets who will hopefully have a much better idea of how to help cousins succeed in a grown *** man's league. but here's what you don't do: you don't surround him with an inexperienced coaching staff and an army of midget chuckers. you don't design a gameplan that fails to effectively maximize his talent. you don't further alienate him by refusing to have his back during moments of crisis, on the court or off. jesus christ, he's 22 years old!! some kids need more help than others. it's not rocket science. there's no need to baby him, but there is a need to give over necessary attention to his development, both as a player and as a man...

edit: and this, for the record, is quite possibly the reason i miss rick adelman the most. does chris webber realize his full potential without a head coach who understands how to manage difficult but talented players? does then-ron artest, who consistently cites RA's influence as a turning point in his nba career? does bonzi wells, who had his best stretch as an nba player under adelman before unintentionally exiling himself from the league? the list of talents (and even the list of not-so-talenteds) that rick adelman has gotten the most out of just goes on and on and on. demarcus cousins may never become what we hope he will in sacramento. he may need to move on before he realizes the highest peaks of his potential. but if i'm running the show, i don't take the chance that some other team with some other coach is going to evolve cousins into the league's best center for the next decade. i do whatever it takes to make it happen here...
Agreed! Well stated.
 
#66
yup. latrell sprewell was a headcase. he was also a 4-time all star. zach randolph was a headcase, but he has since ironed out his problems, and is now a 2-time all star on one of the best teams in the western conference. demarcus cousins is, on the other hand, merely an immature 22-year-old, and one with more potential than you give up on just because he has a tendency to pout. he's not choking his head coach. he's not helping his team earn a "jailblazers" moniker. he's not speeding, not drinking and driving, not knifing people in clubs, not being accused of sexual harassment, not engaging in any of the unsavory activities that typically earn athletes a "head case" tag. to me, demarcus cousins appears to be a good kid with good intentions who hasn't yet learned how to be a man, and is struggling in his journey towards adulthood. with the proper guidance, there is absolutely no reason he can't be molded into one of the league's best big men. and here's the good news, friend: the kings are for sale. they will be bought by an owner with deep pockets who will hopefully have a much better idea of how to help cousins succeed in a grown *** man's league. but here's what you don't do: you don't surround him with an inexperienced coaching staff and an army of midget chuckers. you don't design a gameplan that fails to effectively maximize his talent. you don't further alienate him by refusing to have his back during moments of crisis, on the court or off. jesus christ, he's 22 years old!! some kids need more help than others. it's not rocket science. there's no need to baby him, but there is a need to give over necessary attention to his development, both as a player and as a man...

edit: and this, for the record, is quite possibly the reason i miss rick adelman the most. does chris webber realize his full potential without a head coach who understands how to manage difficult but talented players? does then-ron artest, who consistently cites RA's influence as a turning point in his nba career? does bonzi wells, who had his best stretch as an nba player under adelman before unintentionally exiling himself from the league? the list of talents (and even the list of not-so-talenteds) that rick adelman has gotten the most out of just goes on and on and on. demarcus cousins may never become what we hope he will in sacramento. he may need to move on before he realizes the highest peaks of his potential. but if i'm running the show, i don't take the chance that some other team with some other coach is going to evolve cousins into the league's best center for the next decade. i do whatever it takes to make it happen here...
The pendulum seems to swing to the extremes on each side with comments on DMC. That usually means the answer is somewhere in between. To me, this is the scenario.
1) Other players that are widely consider "headcases" have many more off-court infractions than DMC - he isn't in their category.
2) The majority of other young players in the league don't have the "on-court" issues that DMC has - so he isn't in their category either.

Posters that either persecute him or exonerate him are both in the wrong. In the end, to blame DMC's behavior/performance solely on factors outside of his control (age, coach, teammates (mini-chuckers)) is doing him a disservice. He needs to man-up and deal with what he can deal with (it seems like he is making progress in this area).
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#67
yup. latrell sprewell was a headcase. he was also a 4-time all star. zach randolph was a headcase, but he has since ironed out his problems, and is now a 2-time all star on one of the best teams in the western conference. demarcus cousins is, on the other hand, merely an immature 22-year-old, and one with more potential than you give up on just because he has a tendency to pout. he's not choking his head coach. he's not helping his team earn a "jailblazers" moniker. he's not speeding, not drinking and driving, not knifing people in clubs, not being accused of sexual harassment, not engaging in any of the unsavory activities that typically earn athletes a "head case" tag. to me, demarcus cousins appears to be a good kid with good intentions who hasn't yet learned how to be a man, and is struggling in his journey towards adulthood. with the proper guidance, there is absolutely no reason he can't be molded into one of the league's best big men. and here's the good news, friend: the kings are for sale. they will be bought by an owner with deep pockets who will hopefully have a much better idea of how to help cousins succeed in a grown *** man's league. but here's what you don't do: you don't surround him with an inexperienced coaching staff and an army of midget chuckers. you don't design a gameplan that fails to effectively maximize his talent. you don't further alienate him by refusing to have his back during moments of crisis, on the court or off. jesus christ, he's 22 years old!! some kids need more help than others. it's not rocket science. there's no need to baby him, but there is a need to give over necessary attention to his development, both as a player and as a man...

edit: and this, for the record, is quite possibly the reason i miss rick adelman the most. does chris webber realize his full potential without a head coach who understands how to manage difficult but talented players? does then-ron artest, who consistently cites RA's influence as a turning point in his nba career? does bonzi wells, who had his best stretch as an nba player under adelman before unintentionally exiling himself from the league? the list of talents (and even the list of not-so-talenteds) that rick adelman has gotten the most out of just goes on and on and on. demarcus cousins may never become what we hope he will in sacramento. he may need to move on before he realizes the highest peaks of his potential. but if i'm running the show, i don't take the chance that some other team with some other coach is going to evolve cousins into the league's best center for the next decade. i do whatever it takes to make it happen here...
Well said.
 
#68
The pendulum seems to swing to the extremes on each side with comments on DMC. That usually means the answer is somewhere in between. To me, this is the scenario.
1) Other players that are widely consider "headcases" have many more off-court infractions than DMC - he isn't in their category.
2) The majority of other young players in the league don't have the "on-court" issues that DMC has - so he isn't in their category either.

Posters that either persecute him or exonerate him are both in the wrong. In the end, to blame DMC's behavior/performance solely on factors outside of his control (age, coach, teammates (mini-chuckers)) is doing him a disservice. He needs to man-up and deal with what he can deal with (it seems like he is making progress in this area).
meh. i don't abide this "both in the wrong" nonsense, not when it comes to professional sports, anyway, where a single decision can make or break a franchise for a decade. if you have a talent that could potentially vault your team from the basement into the playoff picture, you do not make the kind of mistakes that might send him packing. kings fans have always been melodramatic about this kind of stuff, from the webber/stojakovic "feud" to the horrors of ron artest to the perceived angst of demarcus cousins. big cuz is immature. he's gotta work on it. he needs help working on it. but that's it. end of story. he's not after your mothers. he's not gonna harm your children. he's not gonna implode the lockerroom, as if there's much else in that lockerroom worth preserving...

here's a daily dose of perspective: chris webber arrived in sacramento via trade in 1998. demarcus cousins was drafted by sacramento in 2010. it took over ten years for the kings to acquire another elite-level big man after rolling the dice on chris webber. vlade divac was good. brad miller was good. but no one should underestimate how hard it is to acquire truly elite talents in a small market like sacramento. and no one should underestimate just how upset kings fans were to see their beloved mitch richmond shipped off for an ungrateful, petulant but talented player like chris webber. of course, without him those glory years we all remember so well aren't so glorious, those memories of sellouts and cowbells would no longer be helping to prop up this franchise's chances of remaining in sacramento. as kings fans came around to c-webb, c-webb came around to sacramento. now he's leading the "here we stay" charge amongst those in the national media...

it is not likely that demarcus cousins will be remembered in such a way, but, then again, he's only 22 years old. chris webber was languishing on a mediocre then-washington bullets team at the age of 22, and was struggling with many of the same issues that demarcus cousins is struggling with today. transformation doesn't happen overnight. chris webber was 25 when he was traded to the kings. he pouted the whole way to sacramento. then, under the tutelage of rick adelman and an experienced coaching staff, he started to grow up. he became one of the greatest power forwards of his generation. fans just need to ease off the melodrama a bit, and give demarcus cousins room to grow, because it's one helluva ceiling he has yet to reach...
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
#69
Who on this board is 100% sure Cousins isn't going to make it?

Who on this board is 100% sure Cousins is never going to make it?

Probably nobody.

Who on this board wants Cousins to grow up?

Probably everybody.

See, there is consensus after all.
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#70
The pendulum seems to swing to the extremes on each side with comments on DMC. That usually means the answer is somewhere in between. To me, this is the scenario.
1) Other players that are widely consider "headcases" have many more off-court infractions than DMC - he isn't in their category.
2) The majority of other young players in the league don't have the "on-court" issues that DMC has - so he isn't in their category either.

Posters that either persecute him or exonerate him are both in the wrong. In the end, to blame DMC's behavior/performance solely on factors outside of his control (age, coach, teammates (mini-chuckers)) is doing him a disservice. He needs to man-up and deal with what he can deal with (it seems like he is making progress in this area).
You make some really good points and a couple I don't agree with. Your last paragraph I agree with completely. We, as a society, have become so wimpy that we tend to make excuses for everybody these days. Being born in a single family home, not having the proper role models, etc. are being used all the time as excuses for the underachieving people in this world that end up a problem to society. The fact of the matter is there are TONS of other folks who had the same challenges or worse who overcame and became good productive human beings. They became people who respected others. My main problem with DeMarcus is that he doesn't respect others. So why should I give him my respect?

As far as you saying he doesn't have off court issues, I have to disagree with that one a bit. Sure, he hasn't gotten in trouble with the law or things like that. He has, however, punched teammates, gotten into heated arguments with announcers after the game and had altercations with other members of the Kings organization. These are things that occur off the basketball court. Again, he doesn't have respect for anybody.

I am all about personal accountability. This goes for myself too. I'm not just sitting here getting enjoyment out of blasting DMC every few weeks. If you look at my posts, I lay off of him when he's doing okay. I'm not here trolling trying to just rip him at any chance. Believe it or not, I don't enjoy doing this. It's kind of like disciplining your kids. It's not fun but it has to be done at times. It seems like every 2-3 weeks something happens with him. The past week he's clearly given up on the team. Sure, he hasn't punched anybody or gotten suspended, but giving up on the team is a huge deal. It says something about his character. That bothers me. I don't think I'm out of line to be bothered by that. Outside of this Kings forum, if you read other boards across the country, about 95% of posters will agree with what I'm saying so I'm not really the minority here. If you listen to experts and writers of the NBA, they would agree with me.

Let me make this clear. I AM NOT rooting against DMC. I am a huge fan of the Kings just like everybody here. I would love nothing more than to see him grow up and let his incredible talent speak for itself on the court. But I am capable of taking off my purple colored glasses to see the truth. And right now the truth is that DMC is a head case who in large does not respect other human beings. If you want to be a fan and respond to Padrino's post by simply saying "Great post" or "Well said" then that is certainly your right to do so but deep down I suspect that you know you aren't speaking the truth.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#71
yup. latrell sprewell was a headcase. he was also a 4-time all star. zach randolph was a headcase, but he has since ironed out his problems, and is now a 2-time all star on one of the best teams in the western conference. demarcus cousins is, on the other hand, merely an immature 22-year-old, and one with more potential than you give up on just because he has a tendency to pout. he's not choking his head coach. he's not helping his team earn a "jailblazers" moniker. he's not speeding, not drinking and driving, not knifing people in clubs, not being accused of sexual harassment, not engaging in any of the unsavory activities that typically earn athletes a "head case" tag. to me, demarcus cousins appears to be a good kid with good intentions who hasn't yet learned how to be a man, and is struggling in his journey towards adulthood. with the proper guidance, there is absolutely no reason he can't be molded into one of the league's best big men. and here's the good news, friend: the kings are for sale. they will be bought by an owner with deep pockets who will hopefully have a much better idea of how to help cousins succeed in a grown *** man's league. but here's what you don't do: you don't surround him with an inexperienced coaching staff and an army of midget chuckers. you don't design a gameplan that fails to effectively maximize his talent. you don't further alienate him by refusing to have his back during moments of crisis, on the court or off. jesus christ, he's 22 years old!! some kids need more help than others. it's not rocket science. there's no need to baby him, but there is a need to give over necessary attention to his development, both as a player and as a man...

edit: and this, for the record, is quite possibly the reason i miss rick adelman the most. does chris webber realize his full potential without a head coach who understands how to manage difficult but talented players? does then-ron artest, who consistently cites RA's influence as a turning point in his nba career? does bonzi wells, who had his best stretch as an nba player under adelman before unintentionally exiling himself from the league? the list of talents (and even the list of not-so-talenteds) that rick adelman has gotten the most out of just goes on and on and on. demarcus cousins may never become what we hope he will in sacramento. he may need to move on before he realizes the highest peaks of his potential. but if i'm running the show, i don't take the chance that some other team with some other coach is going to evolve cousins into the league's best center for the next decade. i do whatever it takes to make it happen here...
I couldn't have said it any better myself! I know, I tried......
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#72
meh. i don't abide this "both in the wrong" nonsense, not when it comes to professional sports, anyway, where a single decision can make or break a franchise for a decade. if you have a talent that could potentially vault your team from the basement into the playoff picture, you do not make the kind of mistakes that might send him packing. kings fans have always been melodramatic about this kind of stuff, from the webber/stojakovic "feud" to the horrors of ron artest to the perceived angst of demarcus cousins. big cuz is immature. he's gotta work on it. he needs help working on it. but that's it. end of story. he's not after your mothers. he's not gonna harm your children. he's not gonna implode the lockerroom, as if there's much else in that lockerroom worth preserving...

here's a daily dose of perspective: chris webber arrived in sacramento via trade in 1998. demarcus cousins was drafted by sacramento in 2010. it took over ten years for the kings to acquire another elite-level big man after rolling the dice on chris webber. vlade divac was good. brad miller was good. but no one should underestimate how hard it is to acquire truly elite talents in a small market like sacramento. and no one should underestimate just how upset kings fans were to see their beloved mitch richmond shipped off for an ungrateful, petulant but talented player like chris webber. of course, without him those glory years we all remember so well aren't so glorious, those memories of sellouts and cowbells would no longer be helping to prop up this franchise's chances of remaining in sacramento. as kings fans came around to c-webb, c-webb came around to sacramento. now he's leading the "here we stay" charge amongst those in the national media...

it is not likely that demarcus cousins will be remembered in such a way, but, then again, he's only 22 years old. chris webber was languishing on a mediocre then-washington bullets team at the age of 22, and was struggling with many of the same issues that demarcus cousins is struggling with today. transformation doesn't happen overnight. chris webber was 25 when he was traded to the kings. he pouted the whole way to sacramento. then, under the tutelage of rick adelman and an experienced coaching staff, he started to grow up. he became one of the greatest power forwards of his generation. fans just need to ease off the melodrama a bit, and give demarcus cousins room to grow, because it's one helluva ceiling he has yet to reach...
I stopped reading there because, clearly, you aren't educated on what he's done the past few years. Also, is it that difficult to capitalize words to start your sentences?
 
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#73
I stopped reading there because, clearly, you aren't educated on what he's one the past few years. Also, is it that difficult to capitalize words to start your sentences?
what are you going on about? what exactly has demarcus cousins done these past few years, except average 16.2 pts, 9.8 rbs, and 2.3 asts per game through the first two and a half years of his professional career? oh no, wait... you must be reffering to the fact that he got paul westphal canned?! i mean, that's like... WHOA. phil jackson would be one thing. i could handle that. but paul westphal was fired for feuding with the team's cornerstone talent?! TRADE HIM!!

:rolleyes:

and no, it is not difficult to capitalize words to start my sentences. but i also don't see the point. this is an informal setting, and i type as i wish, with your consternation at the rock bottom of my list of concerns...
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#74
what are you going on about? what exactly has demarcus cousins done these past few years, except average 16.2 pts, 9.8 rbs, and 2.3 asts per game through the first two and a half years of his professional career? oh no, wait... you must be reffering to the fact that he got paul westphal canned?! i mean, that's like... WHOA. phil jackson would be one thing. i could handle that. but paul westphal was fired for feuding with the team's cornerstone talent?! TRADE HIM!!

:rolleyes:

and no, it is not difficult to capitalize words to start my sentences. but i also don't see the point. this is an informal setting, and i type as i wish, with your consternation at the rock bottom of my list of concerns...
You realize that you're one of the only regular posters here who write long posts without capitalizing, right? It's annoying, kind of like how TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS ANNOYING. But, whatever, I'll probably just put you on my ignore list anyway so it won't matter.

I was pretty much done with my DMC commentary for the day, but obviously you need a history lesson since all you think he did was get PW fired. Here you go:

-Suspended for altercation with Keith Smart
-Suspended for altercation with Spurs broadcaster Sean Elliot after the game
-Suspended for altercation with Paul Westphal
-Punched teammate Donte Green after a game (not sure if he got suspended for this one or not)
-Altercation with Kings conditioning coach Daniel Shapiro
-Altercation with reporter in locker room

Not sure if I missed anything here or not but these are all "locker room" or off court problems that you claim he's never had. Can't wait to hear your rebuttal on this....
 
#75
You realize that you're one of the only regular posters here who write long posts without capitalizing, right? It's annoying, kind of like how TYPING IN ALL CAPS IS ANNOYING. But, whatever, I'll probably just put you on my ignore list anyway so it won't matter.

I was pretty much done with my DMC commentary for the day, but obviously you need a history lesson since all you think he did was get PW fired. Here you go:

-Suspended for altercation with Keith Smart
-Suspended for altercation with Spurs broadcaster Sean Elliot after the game
-Suspended for altercation with Paul Westphal
-Punched teammate Donte Green after a game (not sure if he got suspended for this one or not)
-Altercation with Kings conditioning coach Daniel Shapiro
-Altercation with reporter in locker room

Not sure if I missed anything here or not but these are all "locker room" or off court problems that you claim he's never had. Can't wait to hear your rebuttal on this....
again, your tolerance for my posts is at the rock bottom of my list of concerns. put me on your ignore list if you like. i am consistently complimented at kf.com for the strength of my arguments and the manner in which i express them, but i have nothing to prove to you or anyone else here. it is a poor arguer who must criticize another's spelling or syntax, or who "stops reading" because he or she has failed to grasp a post in whole...

as for my rebuttal, it goes a little something like this: i do not care about these "altercations," as you've categorized them. had you managed to grasp the thrust of my previous post, you would understand that i've long held the position that kings fans are notorious for blowing things out of proportion. i do not consider confrontation to be a bad thing in professional sports. it drives competition, and helps to sustain it. however, donte greene was insignificant. paul westphal was insignificant. keith smart is insignificant. if demarcus cousins had punched kobe bryant, or had blown up at phil jackson, then i would lend credence to your argument. but, from where i'm sitting, i see an elite-level talent surrounded by utter incompetency, and i don't blame demarcus one iota for his frustration. he is young and immature and fiery, and i will repeat: he is 22 years old. with an experienced coaching staff and a willing ownership group prepared to surround him with complimentary players, i am confident that he will mature and grow in accordance with his talent level...
 
L

LWP777

Guest
#76
again, your tolerance for my posts is at the rock bottom of my list of concerns. put me on your ignore list if you like. i am consistently complimented at kf.com for the strength of my arguments and the manner in which i express them, but i have nothing to prove to you or anyone else here. it is a poor arguer who must criticize another's spelling or syntax, or who "stops reading" because he or she has failed to grasp a post in whole...

as for my rebuttal, it goes a little something like this: i do not care about these "altercations," as you've categorized them. had you managed to grasp the thrust of my previous post, you would understand that i've long held the position that kings fans are notorious for blowing things out of proportion. i do not consider confrontation to be a bad thing in professional sports. it drives competition, and helps to sustain it. however, donte greene was insignificant. paul westphal was insignificant. keith smart is insignificant. if demarcus cousins had punched kobe bryant, or had blown up at phil jackson, then i would lend credence to your argument. but, from where i'm sitting, i see an elite-level talent surrounded by utter incompetency, and i don't blame demarcus one iota for his frustration. he is young and immature and fiery, and i will repeat: he is 22 years old. with an experienced coaching staff and a willing ownership group prepared to surround him with complimentary players, i am confident that he will mature and grow in accordance with his talent level...
I am not being a spelling Nazi or criticizing your grammar. I'm simply saying that reading long posts where there is no capitalization is hard on the eyes and annoying. It's inconsiderate. But whatever, you strike me as that kind of guy anyway.

As far as your rebuttal to the altercations that I listed, I see no further point in debating this with you. I have laid out the facts and you are still dismissing them based on the fact that you see him as a fiery competitor and 22 years old. There are a million things I could say that would crush that assertion but it's pointless.
 
#77
I am not being a spelling Nazi or criticizing your grammar. I'm simply saying that reading long posts where there is no capitalization is hard on the eyes and annoying. It's inconsiderate. But whatever, you strike me as that kind of guy anyway.

As far as your rebuttal to the altercations that I listed, I see no further point in debating this with you. I have laid out the facts and you are still dismissing them based on the fact that you see him as a fiery competitor and 22 years old. There are a million things I could say that would crush that assertion but it's pointless.
really? i suppose you could try your best to deconstruct the notion that demarcus cousins is a fiery competitor, but you're gonna have a hard time "crushing the assertion" that he is 22 years old...
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#78
You make some really good points and a couple I don't agree with. Your last paragraph I agree with completely. We, as a society, have become so wimpy that we tend to make excuses for everybody these days. Being born in a single family home, not having the proper role models, etc. are being used all the time as excuses for the underachieving people in this world that end up a problem to society. The fact of the matter is there are TONS of other folks who had the same challenges or worse who overcame and became good productive human beings. They became people who respected others. My main problem with DeMarcus is that he doesn't respect others. So why should I give him my respect?

As far as you saying he doesn't have off court issues, I have to disagree with that one a bit. Sure, he hasn't gotten in trouble with the law or things like that. He has, however, punched teammates, gotten into heated arguments with announcers after the game and had altercations with other members of the Kings organization. These are things that occur off the basketball court. Again, he doesn't have respect for anybody.

I am all about personal accountability. This goes for myself too. I'm not just sitting here getting enjoyment out of blasting DMC every few weeks. If you look at my posts, I lay off of him when he's doing okay. I'm not here trolling trying to just rip him at any chance. Believe it or not, I don't enjoy doing this. It's kind of like disciplining your kids. It's not fun but it has to be done at times. It seems like every 2-3 weeks something happens with him. The past week he's clearly given up on the team. Sure, he hasn't punched anybody or gotten suspended, but giving up on the team is a huge deal. It says something about his character. That bothers me. I don't think I'm out of line to be bothered by that. Outside of this Kings forum, if you read other boards across the country, about 95% of posters will agree with what I'm saying so I'm not really the minority here. If you listen to experts and writers of the NBA, they would agree with me.

Let me make this clear. I AM NOT rooting against DMC. I am a huge fan of the Kings just like everybody here. I would love nothing more than to see him grow up and let his incredible talent speak for itself on the court. But I am capable of taking off my purple colored glasses to see the truth. And right now the truth is that DMC is a head case who in large does not respect other human beings. If you want to be a fan and respond to Padrino's post by simply saying "Great post" or "Well said" then that is certainly your right to do so but deep down I suspect that you know you aren't speaking the truth.
First, there are excuses, and there are facts. Sometimes they happen to be the same thing, and sometimes not. And then, there is the exaggeration of the facts. You just stated that Cousins punched a teammate. Who? It was never reported that Cousins pounched anyone. It was reported that Cousins and Donte got into an altercation, and that they had to be seperated, but to the best of my knowledge, I don't remember anyone reporting that punches were actually landed.

You say your not rooting against Cousins, and that when he's playing well, and doing everything right, your quiet. But you never acknowledge him when he's doing everything right. You only pipe in when he trips and makes a mistake. That my friend is an agenda. I believe your more caught up in wantiing to be right about him, than you are being objective about him. You insult me by saying I have on rose colored glasses, when I've been following him since highschool. If anyone knows about Cousins, its me, and I've acknowledged his problems. You say he got into heated arguements with announcers. To the best of my knowledge, he got into a heated discussion with one announcer. Thats singluar, not plural! Another exaggeration, that happens to fit your agenda.

You say that other people have faced similiar problems in life, and have overcome them. I agree, I'm one of them, but do you think it just happend overnight. It took time. No one comes in and waves a magic wand and Wa La, your cured! Thats not how it happens. It takes patience on the part of the people that care about you. If you keep kicking someone thats down, they'll never get up. You don't excuse their bad behavior, but you don't condemn the person either. Have we become such a instant gratification, disposable society, that were just throwing human beings away too.

I admit that the last three games Cousins hasn't played well. He seems to have lost his motivation. I don't know why, and neither do you. I choose not to speculate until I have more infomation. JT hasn't played well in about 6 or 7 games now. Should we discard him too? Has he given up on the team? It amazes me that you say Cousins has no respect for anyone! Anyone, is very inclusive, and also inplausable. I saw him in summer league a couple of years ago patiently signing autographs for people that were lined up half way around the arena. He was smiling and joking with the people. Thats not a person that doesn't respect other people. Your mistaking his emotions on the court as a lack of respect, when its simply him not knowing how to deal with those emotions.

For you to use the national media to back up your feelings is ridiculous. I would say that just about everyone on this fourm has more knowledge of Cousins than anyone on the national media. And even then, you pick and choose. How about Chris Webber, who loves Cousins. How about Charles Barkley, who thinks Cousins is one of the most talented big men in basketball today. I could go on with Shaq and others, but you don't want to mention them, because it doesn't fit your scenario. How about I put a spotlight on you in your daily life. How about a reporter follows you around and probes into every little thing you say and do. Cousins is living under a microscope, and some of it is earned, but some of it isn't. A lot of it is speculative, and thats what your doing. Your taking what your seeing in real time on the court, and then your speculating. He didn't play well. You could have come up with, gee, I wonder if he has the flu or something. But you didn't! No, you came up with he's quit on the team and he's just proved once again that he's a head case. And then, out of the other side of your mouth, you say you really want him to succeed because your such a great Kings fan. I have no doubt that your a dedicated Kings fan, but I seriously doubt you want Cousins to succeed.

By the way, there's nothing personal in this. I do have respect for you. I just think your wrong headed on this issue, and just maybe, you should take a step back and rethink why your so one sided when it comes to Cousins. That doesn't mean you have to excuse his poor play. I'm just as disgusted as everyone else when I see him playing that way. But I'm not going to throw him in the trash over it. Remember, Cousins has the greatest respect for Calapari, and no one got into his face more than Calapari. But Calapari always made clear what the rules were, and what was expected. I don't think Cousins has a problem with authority or disclipine. I think he has a problem when he feels blindsided or stabbed in the back, or, when there's a double standard. Such as, expecting Cousins to give up some of his offense, and pass the ball more, when he see's teammates, less talented, not being held to the same standard.

To give less effort, is not the right response, but it is the response you'll get at times from a 22 year old immature young man.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#79
chris webber was 25 when he was traded to the kings. he pouted the whole way to sacramento. then, under the tutelage of rick adelman and an experienced coaching staff, he started to grow up. he became one of the greatest power forwards of his generation. fans just need to ease off the melodrama a bit, and give demarcus cousins room to grow, because it's one helluva ceiling he has yet to reach...
Eleven little words that tell a very BIG story.
 

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#80
I am not being a spelling Nazi or criticizing your grammar.
Actually, you knda are.

I'm simply saying that reading long posts where there is no capitalization is hard on the eyes and annoying. It's inconsiderate. But whatever, you strike me as that kind of guy anyway.
The personal insults can stop now.
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#81
I am not being a spelling Nazi or criticizing your grammar. I'm simply saying that reading long posts where there is no capitalization is hard on the eyes and annoying. It's inconsiderate. But whatever, you strike me as that kind of guy anyway.

As far as your rebuttal to the altercations that I listed, I see no further point in debating this with you. I have laid out the facts and you are still dismissing them based on the fact that you see him as a fiery competitor and 22 years old. There are a million things I could say that would crush that assertion but it's pointless.
Crush away man, because I really don't see your point. Maybe it's because I work with kids all the time. Maybe it's because I know the brain doesn't fully develop until around 23-25 for men. Maybe you're really underestimating how ****ty of a coach Smart is. It's probably all of the above.

It's one thing to lose games but know you're making progress. It's another thing to sail on a ship that's just twisting about in the wind because of an incompetent captain. That would frustrate the hell out of me as well. But the major difference is that I'm 34 and he's a whopping 22, so I've developed coping mechanisms.
 
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LWP777

Guest
#82
Actually, you knda are.



The personal insults can stop now.
Sorry, but I do believe asking for a little consideration on capitalizing words on long posts is completely different than pointing out to somebody that it's "you're" not "your" as an example. It is very hard on the eyes to read his posts. I'm just making that point. That is all.
 
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LWP777

Guest
#83
Crush away man, because I really don't see your point. Maybe it's because I work with kids all the time. Maybe it's because I know the brain doesn't fully develop until around 23-25 for men. Maybe you're really underestimating how ****ty of a coach Smart is. It's probably all of the above.

It's one thing to lose games but know you're making progress. It's another thing to sail on a ship that's just twisting about in the wind because of an incompetent captain. That would frustrate the hell out of me as well. But the major difference is that I'm 34 and he's a whopping 22, so I've developed coping mechanisms.
He's 22 on a team full of young guys who I don't see act like him. He also is under contract making millions of dollars playing a game. Is it really too much to ask to just have him stay relatively quiet and play hard every night?

This is one of the big differences between now and say 25 years ago. We make excuses for guys like him now. 25 years ago the team and fans would never allow it
 

Spike

Subsidiary Intermediary
Staff member
#84
He's 22 on a team full of young guys who I don't see act like him. He also is under contract making millions of dollars playing a game. Is it really too much to ask to just have him stay relatively quiet and play hard every night?

This is one of the big differences between now and say 25 years ago. We make excuses for guys like him now. 25 years ago the team and fans would never allow it
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/coach_killers/magic_johnson.html
http://www.realclearsports.com/lists/coach_killers/elvin_hayes_jack_mcmahon.html?state=stop
 
#85
He's 22 on a team full of young guys who I don't see act like him. He also is under contract making millions of dollars playing a game. Is it really too much to ask to just have him stay relatively quiet and play hard every night?

This is one of the big differences between now and say 25 years ago. We make excuses for guys like him now. 25 years ago the team and fans would never allow it
a little over 30 years ago, magic johnson signed a 25 year, $25 million contract with the los angeles lakers, which was the biggest contract in professional sports history at that time. not too long after signing that contract, magic got into a very heated dispute with lakers head coach paul westhead regarding the pace at which the lakers played. shortly thereafter, magic demanded to be traded, despite the enormity of the contract his team had just signed him to. in order to diffuse the situation, jerry buss fired paul westhead and promoted then-assistant coach pat riley. the rest, as they say, is history. so no, things weren't too different 25 years ago. the tenor of our conversation about sports changed forever when it became incredibly lucrative for athletes to play at the professional level. putting enormous paychecks in the hands of very young men in their early 20's is going to have a profound effect on their psychological makeup, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. furthermore, you cannot apply old world values to new world contexts and expect anything but disaster. attempting to handle cousins' petulance as if this were the 1950's simply wouldn't work. you have to take a new approach. you have to engage a player like demarcus cousins in a mentoring relationship, because that's what he needs to succeed. if we think of professional sports as a business with conventional practices, then a talented young player is an investment, and in order to see a successful return on that investment, a team may need to go the extra mile. you may reductively think of it as "making excuses for guys like him" (as if "guys like him" are uncommon in professional sports). you may not think its worth it. but i see a franchise center with repeat all-star potential, and if it were up to me, i would simply refuse to give up on him just because "when i was your age i had to walk 15 miles through the snow to go to school--uphill both ways."
 
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LWP777

Guest
#88
a little over 30 years ago, magic johnson signed a 25 year, $25 million contract with the los angeles lakers, which was the biggest contract in professional sports history at that time. not too long after signing that contract, magic got into a very heated dispute with lakers head coach paul westhead regarding the pace at which the lakers played. shortly thereafter, magic demanded to be traded, despite the enormity of the contract his team had just signed him to. in order to diffuse the situation, jerry buss fired paul westhead and promoted then-assistant coach pat riley. the rest, as they say, is history. so no, things weren't too different 25 years ago. the tenor of our conversation about sports changed forever when it became incredibly lucrative for athletes to play at the professional level. putting enormous paychecks in the hands of very young men in their early 20's is going to have a profound effect on their psychological makeup, whether you want to acknowledge it or not. furthermore, you cannot apply old world values to new world contexts and expect anything but disaster. attempting to handle cousins' petulance as if this were the 1950's simply wouldn't work. you have to take a new approach. you have to engage a player like demarcus cousins in a mentoring relationship, because that's what he needs to succeed. if we think of professional sports as a business with conventional practices, then a talented young player is an investment, and in order to see a successful return on that investment, a team may need to go the extra mile. you may reductively think of it as "making excuses for guys like him" (as if "guys like him" are uncommon in professional sports). you may not think its worth it. but i see a franchise center with repeat all-star potential, and if it were up to me, i would simply refuse to give up on him just because "when i was your age i had to walk 15 miles through the snow to go to school--uphill both ways."
great example! magic johnson -- HOF'er and arguably one of the best players to ever play in the league. winner of 5 NBA championships.

deMarcus cousins can't even make the all-star team despite have the numbers for a center to be able to do so. ever wonder why that is?
 
#89
What's your point? That there have been players in professional sports who were "coach killers?" There is always an exception to every rule my friend.
no, that is not his point. his point is that magic johnson led the lakers to five championships in spite of his bad attitude, and that, when push came to shove, ownership was going to side with their $25 million investment, rather than a head coach who was no longer equipped to handle the job...
 
#90
great example! magic johnson -- HOF'er and arguably one of the best players to ever play in the league. winner of 5 NBA championships.

deMarcus cousins can't even make the all-star team despite have the numbers for a center to be able to do so. ever wonder why that is?
nope. he plays in a western conference stacked with talented big men. if he played in the eastern conference, he would be an all-star. and yes, magic johnson is a great example. he was not a hall of famer early in his career. everybody knew he was good, but it remained to be seen just how good he would become. demarcus is in his third year. everybody knows how good he is, but it remains to be seen just how good he will become. you, on the other hand, act as if he's a ten-year veteran who has never managed to overcome his deficiencies, which makes you really bad at this whole arguing thing...

edit: by the way, the nba eliminated the "center" position from the all-star ballot, instead requiring that bigs be voted in as "frontcourt players." had the center distinction remained, demarcus might very well have made the all-star game this year as a reserve...
 
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