Rumor: Celtics may make another run at Tyreke Evans

#91
Yep.

I think it's clear he has a problem with losing, great, I'm not as forgiving for his behaviour as others seem to be, and i don't think he's blameless as some do, but that doesn't stop me knowing that in a properly structured offensive system he could could be an incredible weapon.

So it would be silly to be trading someone without giving that a go, barring of course a completely unacceptable breaking of the law or something completely outrageous.
 

Glenn

Hall of Famer
#92
I apologize if I offended you. It's mostly Bricklayer who talks a lot about "superstars" and winning championships. And a lot of other posters tend to follow his opinion a lot so I probably lumped in people who shouldn't have been included in that opinion. As far as superstars on the Sacramento Kings, I can only think of one. Chris Webber. He may have even been a borderline superstar. We had other "stars" like Mitch Richmond, Vlade, Peja, possibly Mike Bibby. DMC and Reke are nowhere near any of those guys...yet.
I read Brick carefully and generally agree with him. I don't think he has said DMC would be a superstar. He may have said that DMC could be a superstar and I think that's fair. DMC has moves that no other center has and he has huge problems around the rim. Seems like a good coach could play to his strengths better. He also can pass. I think DMC could become better than Webber. It took a long time for Webber to get to the level of play we saw him having and playing next to Vlade may have had a lot to do with it.

If you put all this into context, this complaining about DMC's shortcomings is aggravating as the Kings have only had one star. Keep perspective. We have had so few things to be proud of why pile loads and loads of dung on a player we could be proud of SOME DAY? I think he is already real, real good. :)
 
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#93
Also to respond to the continued argument that Tyreke has regressed so much since his rookie year, here are the per 36 minute comparisons:

Reke rookie: 19.5ppg, 5.1rpg, 5.6 apg, 1.5spg, .3bpg, 2.9 tpg, 45% floor, 25% 3, 75% ft
Reke now: 17.6ppg, 5.6rpg, 3.8apg, 1.5spg, .5bpg, 2.5tpg, 45% floor, 30% 3, 79% ft

Most of his stats are the same or have improved. His points and assists are down but he has the ball in his hands a lot less. I also think his overall defense is much better.
 
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LWP777

Guest
#94
So why do you follow this franchise (or most of the franchises in the nba). You basically trash anyone who isn't one of the current top 5-10 guys in the league. Those guys aren't coming here. A team like this tries to find someone that can fall just outside that tier in the draft or a lucky trade and builds around them. We have the two potential foundational pieces. What we lack are the surrounding ones. The last thing you want to do is trade your potential stars for lesser players.
Huh? I haven't trashed anybody except for DMC. I don't like him as a person. He doesn't treat anybody with respect so why should I give him my respect? I don't think we are a very talented team but you'll be hard pressed to find me bashing any Kings player except for DMC. Am I supposed to live in la-la land and not speak truth just because I am a fan of this team? The fact is we are a mess from top to bottom. No point in beating around the bush about that.
 
#95
The problem with DMC is his efficiency. His .481 TS% with him taking 14 shots a game is detrimental to our offense, not helpful.

DMC needs to raise his efficiency quite a bit before he's even close to being considered an elite player. But as of now, the only real positive he brings is his rebounding ability. He's a weak defender and he's an inefficient player who takes a lot of shots. He's got a lot of holes to fix in his on-court game as well as his off-court issues
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#96
It really is impossible to truly judge cuz until you see him running in a proper structured offense geared toward his strengths.
Bingo, you hit the nail on the head. Right now, Smart wants to run the ball. He wants an uptempo game. That type of game least suits Cousins. His best game would be in a halfcourt game. Which usually requires a shot creator at the PG position. With the old Kings, that fell on Christie for the most part. How well does anyone think Shaq would have played in this current system. I think the last thing Shaq would have wanted, is to be running up and down the court on a regular basis.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#97
Huh? I haven't trashed anybody except for DMC. I don't like him as a person. He doesn't treat anybody with respect so why should I give him my respect? I don't think we are a very talented team but you'll be hard pressed to find me bashing any Kings player except for DMC. Am I supposed to live in la-la land and not speak truth just because I am a fan of this team? The fact is we are a mess from top to bottom. No point in beating around the bush about that.
Mi amigo, I have pointed out that this team is a mess. I've been critical of Cousins, Tyreke, Thornton, IT, Johnson etc. But I don't point it out every minute of every day. Frankly, your starting to get tiresome, and I wish you would go back to your regualr posts, which I found interesting. We all get it, you don't like Cousins and you want him traded. We get it OK! We don't have to be beat over the head with it. Your not going to change your mind, and neither are we. So can we talk about something else for a while. At least until Cousins strangles a nun or something!
 
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LWP777

Guest
#98
Mi amigo, I have pointed out that this team is a mess. I've been critical of Cousins, Tyreke, Thornton, IT, Johnson etc. But I don't point it out every minute of every day. Frankly, your starting to get tiresome, and I wish you would go back to your regualr posts, which I found interesting. We all get it, you don't like Cousins and you want him traded. We get it OK! We don't have to be beat over the head with it. Your not going to change your mind, and neither are we. So can we talk about something else for a while. At least until Cousins strangles a nun or something!
Lol. Okay! The thing is I don't really talk about him much when he's in between his blow ups. It's just that he's been a major story with the Kings the past week. But I do understand your point.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
I read Brick carefully and generally agree with him. I don't think he has said DMC would be a superstar. He may have said that DMC could be a superstar and I think that's fair. DMC has moves that no other center has and he has huge problems around the rim. Seems like a good coach could play to his strengths better. He also can pass. I think DMC could become better than Webber. It took a long time for Webber to get to the level of play we saw him having and playing next to Vlade may have had a lot to do with it.

If you put all this into context, this complaining about DMC's shortcomings is aggravating as the Kings have only had one star. Keep perspective. We have had so few things to be proud of why pile loads and loads of dung on a player we could be proud of SOME DAY? I think he is already real, real good. :)
He's a very good talent with a 100 lb weight around his neck. So how good is he really? If you're 100% certain he can unload the 100 lbs, then you bank on him. If you're only 10% certain, then you probably try to trade him to a team that thinks he has a 51% probability of unloading the 100 lb baggage. I'd really like to know from Petrie after he had some truth serum in him whether he's changed his probability estimate for Cousins from the time he drafted him. He had to have thought that he had at least a 51% chance of making it when he drafted him. I wonder what that probability estimate is now?
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Celtics want Tyreke. Kings could do well with Sullinger and/or Green to fortify front court. What about Tyreke and Outlaw for Sullinger and Green? a 2 and 3 for a 5 and 4.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Celtics want Tyreke. Kings could do well with Sullinger and/or Green to fortify front court. What about Tyreke and Outlaw for Sullinger and Green? a 2 and 3 for a 5 and 4.
A short stubby undersized center with weight problems and a guy who had serious heart problems? Sign me up for that bargain.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
A short stubby undersized center with weight problems and a guy who had serious heart problems? Sign me up for that bargain.
Well, we could aquire Sullinger, and then trade Hayes. That way we gaing two and half inches. Green's heart problems aren't that serious, otherwise he wouldn't be permitted to play. I've had an irregular heartbeat most of my adult life, and it hasn't stopped me from doing anything. Helps your argument though.
 

Tetsujin

The Game Thread Dude
Well, we could aquire Sullinger, and then trade Hayes. That way we gaing two and half inches. Green's heart problems aren't that serious, otherwise he wouldn't be permitted to play. I've had an irregular heartbeat most of my adult life, and it hasn't stopped me from doing anything. Helps your argument though.
Any time someone has to undergo heart surgery, I'm not really willing to call it anything less than serious.
 
Well, we could aquire Sullinger, and then trade Hayes. That way we gaing two and half inches. Green's heart problems aren't that serious, otherwise he wouldn't be permitted to play. I've had an irregular heartbeat most of my adult life, and it hasn't stopped me from doing anything. Helps your argument though.
That's a lot of work to gain two and a half inches. In the end you're still stuck with two undersized bigs off the bench.

I like Green but just because you haven't had any problems doing "anything" doesn't mean Green wont have problems playing basketball at the highest level in the world.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Any time someone has to undergo heart surgery, I'm not really willing to call it anything less than serious.
No, your right, but it does depend on what kind of surgery it is. Its unlikely that he would have gotten medical approval if it was still a problem. By no means was I comparing heart cases between myself and Green. All I was saying is that in many cases, people with heart problems can have them corrected and move on without future complications.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
That's a lot of work to gain two and a half inches. In the end you're still stuck with two undersized bigs off the bench.

I like Green but just because you haven't had any problems doing "anything" doesn't mean Green wont have problems playing basketball at the highest level in the world.
Uhhhh, my first part about Sullinger was a joke!!! As to Green, yeah, your right. You can also get hit by a car crossing the street as well. Or you can slip in the shower and hit your head. Hey, I don't mean to make light of it. But I've done a little reading up on the situation, and what he had was an Aortic Aneurysm. Which in short, means a swelling of the aorta near the heart. Of course if the swelling area weakens too much, and bursts, then you you have a very serious life threatening situation. In his case they put in a patch, or a flexable stent. As far as I can tell, this surgery has been very successful with other patients. According to what I read, there has been a lot of research in this area, and the types of stents used are now very advanced, and considered permanent.

However, I can't argue that he'll never have a problem in the future. I'm not god with infinite vision, so I'd have to say, yes, there would be some risk involved.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Celtics want Tyreke. Kings could do well with Sullinger and/or Green to fortify front court. What about Tyreke and Outlaw for Sullinger and Green? a 2 and 3 for a 5 and 4.
You really need to look at what you just wrote.

After spending a few days trying to give away Cousins, now we're back to giving away Reke. Wish you guys would quit trying to trash my team's future.
 
You really need to look at what you just wrote.

After spending a few days trying to give away Cousins, now we're back to giving away Reke. Wish you guys would quit trying to trash my team's future.
Hard to say if Tyreke is part if the future considering he's frequently injured. He's missed double digit games in 3 out of 4 years and hasn't shown any improvement since his rookie year.
 
Hard to say if Tyreke is part if the future considering he's frequently injured. He's missed double digit games in 3 out of 4 years and hasn't shown any improvement since his rookie year.
I can't argue the injury stuff but before he was injured this year, he was playing the best ball of his life. I would say he's better this year skill wise than he was his rookie year.
 
I can't argue the injury stuff but before he was injured this year, he was playing the best ball of his life. I would say he's better this year skill wise than he was his rookie year.
ehhh... He was playing good ball, but not the kind of ball that will win us a lot of games. It was the same 'ol same 'ol. Evans got his stats and the rest of the team struggles. I want to see a winning season with Evans as the ball handler before I say I would want to keep him. As it stands now jpsls is correct, and a lot of Kings fans will that injury as another excuse.
 
ehhh... He was playing good ball, but not the kind of ball that will win us a lot of games. It was the same 'ol same 'ol. Evans got his stats and the rest of the team struggles. I want to see a winning season with Evans as the ball handler before I say I would want to keep him. As it stands now jpsls is correct, and a lot of Kings fans will that injury as another excuse.
You're biased and never liked him. Its obvious you would say that about him. I thought he was moving the ball well, was patient and was one of the better 2 way players in the league before his injury. Even Keith Smart has been praising him despite him being injured. He knows what kind of impact Tyreke had before his injury.
 

CruzDude

Senior Member sharing a brew with bajaden
Sullinger is a taller younger backup at the 5 who can take some of the load off JT and Cuz as a backup. Doesn't have the valuable experience of Hayes. Both he and Green are an improvement over Outlaw. Kings have won 4 of 6 without Tyreke and don't seem to miss his game. Salmons has picked up his slack and is a much better jump shooter and excellent defender with good court vision.. Celtics get a big, tough SG that can be immediate help and whose value is down, quite a ways down right now.

As I've said before Cuz isn't going anywhere this year or next or next. In next 10 games we'll see if he is finally on his way to next years all-star team or not.
 
Sullinger is a taller younger backup at the 5 who can take some of the load off JT and Cuz as a backup. Doesn't have the valuable experience of Hayes. Both he and Green are an improvement over Outlaw. Kings have won 4 of 6 without Tyreke and don't seem to miss his game. Salmons has picked up his slack and is a much better jump shooter and excellent defender with good court vision.. Celtics get a big, tough SG that can be immediate help and whose value is down, quite a ways down right now.

As I've said before Cuz isn't going anywhere this year or next or next. In next 10 games we'll see if he is finally on his way to next years all-star team or not.
Yeah and which of those 4 wins were over winning teams? We were lucky to beat a Knicks team that didn't have two all-stars playing in Amare and Carmelo, as well as a key guy in Shumpert. Continuing on the Knicks, they've won a couple of games with Anthony and Amare, why not they trade those guys for Jared Sulinger? Oh we beat Portland without Cousins, we clearly don't miss him either, lets trade him for Sulinger.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
Sullinger is a taller younger backup at the 5 who can take some of the load off JT and Cuz as a backup. Doesn't have the valuable experience of Hayes. Both he and Green are an improvement over Outlaw. Kings have won 4 of 6 without Tyreke and don't seem to miss his game. Salmons has picked up his slack and is a much better jump shooter and excellent defender with good court vision.. Celtics get a big, tough SG that can be immediate help and whose value is down, quite a ways down right now.

As I've said before Cuz isn't going anywhere this year or next or next. In next 10 games we'll see if he is finally on his way to next years all-star team or not.
Indeed.

John Salmons is the future here. With him and Jeff Green who needs actual talent.
 
You're biased and never liked him. Its obvious you would say that about him. I thought he was moving the ball well, was patient and was one of the better 2 way players in the league before his injury. Even Keith Smart has been praising him despite him being injured. He knows what kind of impact Tyreke had before his injury.
It's not about liking or disliking Evans. I just don't think his skillset is good for what we actually need. We always end up putting him back as the primary ball handler and the team stops moving the ball and we get 13 team assist nights and then everyone comes on the board complaining that the reason the assists were low is because nobody was making their shots ect ect.

I never said I hated the guy, I am, and always have been a supporter of pure PGs and I believe one would (with how the team is built) take us to many more wins than a "ball handler" at PG. There is much more to playing PG than just passing it and handling the ball.

The stats I look at are win/loss records. This year the Kings are 5-13 with Evans, and 6-6 without. The team assist totals without Evans are astronomically higher than with Evans. The shooting % is higher, and the defense hasn't got any worse to my knowledge.

That being said the only guy I would want to trade Evans for on the Celtics lineup is Rondo. Evans has more value than every other player I would want to take a look at.
 
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It really depends on whether Tyreke plans on re-signing with the Kings next year. If he plans on moving on, it would be better to get something in a trade, same could be said for Brooks as well. Given the glut of guards the Kings have, moving Tyreke doesn't seem like a bad idea in theory, but there aren't many guys on the Celtics that seem to be helpful for the value Tyreke should have. Sullinger and Fab are young projects, and we have a few of those already, Avery is another guard and we have many of those too, but if the option is them now or nothing after the season they might as well package Outlaw and a bad contract with Tyreke and take it.
 

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
It's not about liking or disliking Evans. I just don't think his skillset is good for what we actually need. We always end up putting him back as the primary ball handler and the team stops moving the ball and we get 13 team assist nights and then everyone comes on the board complaining that the reason the assists were low is because nobody was making their shots ect ect.

I never said I hated the guy, I am, and always have been a supporter of pure PGs and I believe one would (with how the team is built) take us to many more wins than a "ball handler" at PG. There is much more to playing PG than just passing it and handling the ball.

The stats I look at are win/loss records. This year the Kings are 5-13 with Evans, and 6-6 without. The team assist totals without Evans are astronomically higher than with Evans. The shooting % is higher, and the defense hasn't got any worse to my knowledge.

That being said the only guy I would want to trade Evans for on the Celtics lineup is Rondo. Evans has more value than every other player I would want to take a look at.
You people are just flat dishonest at a certain point. Unfortunately I do not have a short memory.

All of this nonsense. ALL of it, dates back exactly 4 games. FOUR GAMES. Not a peep out of this foolishness for a solid month. And you want to know why? Well first of all everybody was too busy hanging Cuz in effigy to bother picking on Reke for a while -- charming ruins of a fanbase once called the best in the league we have here. But here's the other reason -- because you people were flat out hiding. You, Gary, had the gall to come on here and openly TAUNT people when Reke sturggled through the first 10 games of the season. Taunt them. I told you so them. I always knew what was he was etc. Then Reke snaps into gear, and poof, you disappear like a ghost on the issue. Now for a solid month we have been dying a slow and ugly offensive death without Reke out there, and then boom, Cuz blows up, the team seems to come together from it, we get 4 pretty easy games in a row, 3 at home against struggling/injured road teams and all of a sudden the fanbase which can't tolerate prosperity without throwing somebody under the bus whips out the knives to carve on their old favorite target again.

Enough. You people should be embarrassed.

Now let me throw the numbers at your feet. Have fun trying to twist and spin them to justify the latest nonsense push. Here are all the games since Reke went down where he did not play (I included Denver where he was clearly hobbled and only played 10min of the first quarter -- trying to blame that gme on him would require gall even for his detractors). So here's how we did without him until 4 games ago. FOUR. :

Nov 30: 92pts 42.7%FG 15ast
Dec 1: 81pts 38.2%FG 23ast
Dec 7: 91pts 40.5%FG 20ast
Dec 8: 99pts 41.9%FG 22ast
Dec10: 96pts 44.0%FG 22ast
Dec16: 97pts 34.1%FG 13ast (Reke plays 10min, can't go)
Dec17: 90pts 41.0%FG 15ast
Dec19: 131pts 50.0%FG 25ast (the out of nowhere Golden State home win)
Dec21: 85pts 41.8%FG 18ast (Cuz blows up)

So there we go. Up unitl one week ago. One week. We play 9 games without Reke. We break 100pts ONE time. We shoot better than 45% ONE time. This goes on for a solid month mind you. Oh, and mind you as well that in the 8 games Reke does play between the lineup change post Atlanta game, we score 100 or more points 5 of the 8 times. So there is our backdrop, and not a nonsense peep out of anyone. For damn good reason. Then we have a blowup, a major event, that has absolutely nothing to do with Reke at all, and all of a sudden for 4 games, FOUR, people start to pass the ball. And all of a sudden it was Reke holding us back from doing it before. The same guy who has been missing for a solid month while nobody on the team could throw the ball in the ocean. The same guy who's presence seemed to singlehandedly elevate us in the weeks before he left. And now he's back to being a villain because we play FOUR good passing games (@Portland was ineffective assists or not) a month after he was last consistently in the lineup. A more cynical observer might say that a certain subset of fans were just waiting and waiting and waiting until their next chance to scapegoat him.
 

rainmaker

Hall of Famer
The hypocricy here is reaching asinine levels.

When a few of us over the last year have presented how much better statistically we were with a Reke/MT backcourt after Smart took over the Reke detractors came out in full force to say the sample size was simply too small. When Reke was our best player pre injury this year, we were .500 with a Reke/Brooks backcourt and Reke was hitting about 45% from 3 over a 7+ game stretch, and hitting mid range jumpers, along with being our best player on both sides of the ball and our best creator, it again was too small a sample size. Although Reke's detractors were full on hiding at that point, or telling us there's simply no way Reke keeps it up, just because. Pretty sure that's the game Reke nailed back to back 3's to push us to a win. Those detractors disappeared that evening too.

Now, while he's injured and the team responds over a short stretch to the Cuz problems, and Cuz comes back playing better, all the sudden that sample size is large enough to once again give reason to send Reke out of town, and in a Sullinger/Green trade? What a complete joke. It's embarrassing, Brick is right. Completely embarrassing how this once proud fanbase constantly needs to turn on a player.
 
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