[Grades] Grades v. Spurs 04/18/12

What's more important?

  • Offense

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Defense

    Votes: 12 28.6%
  • They are equally important.

    Votes: 17 40.5%
  • Neither is important.

    Votes: 3 7.1%
  • I like turnips.

    Votes: 7 16.7%
  • AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!!!!

    Votes: 3 7.1%

  • Total voters
    42
  • Poll closed .

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#1


Well we almost had three guys score 20, so good game. Right? RIGHT??

In our ridiculous world it probably is. Sorry, I was always a defensive guy. Every sport I ever played, soccer, football, basketball, tennis...did not matter. I was the captain of the defense until I finally progressed to levels where my talent would not allow that, and then I became a willing foot soldier. Every game too. In chess when I play black I specialize in the French Defense and hypermodern counterattacks where I expose nothing. In strategic computer games I am the master of the turtle defense. And right about now this Kings team would actually have a lockerroom problem if I was on it, because this is just not acceptable. These guys get all hangdog if they have a bad shooting night. But that's not the end where you really compete. And we just aren't on defense.

All of which of course means one last dose of Girls. And ladies, since I'm nice, I'll throw in a Hot Guy as well. Maybe Danny Devito.

Boxscore


Evans ( F ) -- alright, so our experiment with Tyreke Evans playing the Keith Bogans offensive role did not go so hot. Reke had 5pts. 2 of those 5 came on the very first possession of the game when Leonard gambled on a steal, and Reke was able to waltz right to the Duncanless rim. What happened after that was a combination of our own inexplicable use, or lack of use, of Reke, and the Spurs on the other hand seeming to think a lot more of him as an offensive threat than we do, putting their best perimeter defender on him and doubling him every time he caught the ball (think I'll take Pop's talent assessment over Smart's). On our lack of use btw, seriously now, its progressed to the point where we will have just ANYBODY bring the ball up and run the offense instead of Reke. IT, TWill, Jimmer...just so long as Reke doesn't initiate and just goes over to the opposite side and stands there waiting for a ball that never comes. Here's the kicker to that, which I am going to explore further in a separate thread: this guy was our starting PG to begin the year, and we were BETTER with him starting at PG under Smart (8-14 .364) than we have been since we went to IT (10-23 .303). And yet now we act like he's going to rub snot on the ball. Now of course as mentioned, the Spurs were paying him a tremendous amount of attention for a 5th option when he actually did get the ball, so it made it all the easier just to swing the ball away. And the few completely out of rhtyhm attempts he did make to force something up were completely unproductive. No role in the offense meant just randomly going 1 on 5, resulting in turnovers and misses, and when the Spurs backed off, the jumper was nowhere to be found. BTW, did I mention that back when Reke was playing PG we went into San Antonio and beat this team for its first home loss of the season in a defensvie war behind 23pts 11rebs and 7ast from Reke? Well we didn't beat them tonight playing stupid ball with Reke frozen out.
P.S. Momentarily considered going all the way to a D- because Reke might have been the only guy on the the team playing attentive defense. But the key word there is attentive. He was almsot alone in not just letting his guy get free looks, but his guy was Leonard (who BTW scored most of his points against others) and they don't run any plays for him. So all attentive defense means is that Reke stayed close and challenged his shots. But when Thornton went out at the end of the 3rd and he switched onto Manu, the Spurs got him with three straight back picks, which apparently nobody on our team calls out BTW in the expectation our guards have eyes in the back of their heads. So even his "attentive" defense was no more than just being responsible, rather than any kind of impact. "Highlight' if you want to call it that might have been wehn he and Manu had a HUGE collision in the early 4th running full speed into each other and slamming heads -- Reke was running to get the ball on a handoff. No idea what Manu was thinking except maybe taking the handoff himself, but he had to see Reke coming? Anyway, good way to get a concussion or broken jaw, but both guys shook it off, although Manu had to go to the lockerroom for a bit.

Lily Aldridge -- one of the Victoria's Secret supermodels

Thompson ( C ) -- my notes on JT have shrunk game to game as has his relevance. Here was what I had tonight: "getting a lot of shots with the TWill and Evans combo out there in the 2nd. A few nice finishes inside in the third." That was it. No idea what happened to the rebounding machine of a month ago. Every once ina while we, normally Reke or TWill, woudl trhow him the ball on the blcok and he would either score or not. But there was no momentum, no impact, no relevance. He was just there. Not awful. Not in any way good. Just there. Not btw anyway to audition for free agency. At least you can't accuse him of making a contract year push.

Antoinette Nikprelaj -- Albanian beauty

Cousins ( B- ) -- scruffy and slightly selfish first quarter where he frequently put his head down against double teams but still managed productivty on pure talent alone. Dumb but fun fullcourt gallop through traffic for the layup. Wasn't often looking up for cutters, which particularly effected Reke since that's the only off ball tactic we have for him. Cut through and Boogie will hit you. If he's looking to. Somehow after half the Spurs seemed to just pretty much single cover him and let him do his worst, and he responded with some nice looking post work. We were already starting to fade in the late 3rd as we simply refused to stop anybody, like ever. But the kicker that killed our last chances was when Boogie picked up his 4th, we gambled and left him in, and he quickly picked up his 5th before the end of the 3rd quarter. Then after we desperately subbed him backn in in the ealry 4th with the lead swelling to 18 at that point, fouled out ona tough call within a minute of his reutrn, and that was it for both him and us.

Alice Greczyn
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#2
Thornton ( C+ ) -- a game that started off full of promise for him ended in, well if nto disaster then at leas tdisappointment. Exploded off early with a couple of threes and was running the floor hard to get set up by various teammates on his way to a 4-4 10pt start. Slithered inside for several of his offensive rebound finishes and had 14 by the end of the first. But that , as they say, was that. The Spurs defense stifened. The ball went elsewhere when it went anywhere at all, and Marcus was alternately forgotten aobut and out of rhythm for the rest of the game -- essentialy he just had that hot burst you wait for this time right out of the gate, and then fell off. An then added a new injury on top of everything else, as he apreared to bang knees with Manu (who was bumpercarring out there) and had to be carried off the court. Returned a few minutes later with what was eventually labeled a bruised quad (the same thing tht plagued him earlier in the year), but he could not go long and the lead was over 20 by that time, so he was shut down. How to grades this?

Gina Grad -- had no idea who this was. Subtle as always Slim.

Thomas ( B ) -- alright, boxscore says a rather bland "good game for Isaiah", but there was lot more going on than just that, good, bad, and all points inbetween. Not shooting well early but made more good passes than assists indicated, including a tremendous over the shoulder pass on the break to Thornton for the finish. Not sure if maybe IT had the 'IT night" aspect of this one in mind or not, but passes seemed flashier than normal. Certainly sure Grant and Jerry hd the IT in mind as they are almost defining trying too hard at this point. Now the bad, and it was the big BAD on the night wa the defense -- this was possibly the worst defensive game we have seen from IT. And it wasn't jsut Parker wantoing to come back at him after he palyed him well last game. it was every single player he guarded. Parker, Neal, Patty Mills...the 3 Spurs PGs combined to absolutely ROAST IT & Jimmer to the tune of 41pts and 10 assists, and just got into the lane at absolute will. Appropriately IT did a nice job drawing a foul for our final possesion of the first half...but then just got beat and fouled Mills +1 for the Spurs final possession down the other way, and we lost a point in the tradeoff. Started the third with a nice hesitation drive. and began to work his way into a decent point total. Never really got hot, but was spending a lot of time at the line. When we lost Thornton changed gears and became IT the gunner for a few minutes, coming up with a quick burst but leaving his teammates behind as we began to fade badly. The real story remained on the other side of the floor though as the Spurs shot 60% through most of this one. Added another 5 pts after briefly returning for the 4th quarter garbagetime. Had B+ penciled in here, but a lot of hsi scoring came as the game was getting out of control, and in the end we got whipped by 25pts tonight, and pretty offensive numbers can only carry you so far when you are getting humilated on the other end of the court.

Monika Pietrasinska -- Polish lingerie model. The need to find a pic of her in something not see thru necessitated an extensive pic search. Bricklayer: doing work for the board.

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Bench

Fredette ( D+ ) -- the other half of our defensive stopper duo on the ball tonight, came in and immediately matched against Parker again, which is still just death. I mean, you could have Pat Riley coaching the defense and there is simply no chacne that's going to work. But here it was. In a late season "finall!" moment hit a catch and shoot three to begin the 2nd off of what looked like a floppy set -- peeps may rememberIi was calling for floppy sets for Jimmer at the beginning of the year (floppy sets involve having a guard start the play in the paint, and then you set a series of screens down in the paint to free him as he runs out to the three point stripe to receive the pass, which he can then shoot freely if his defender has gotten caught on the screens -- Reggie Miller is in the HOF because of that play). But that was literally his big offensive moment. Got one other early hoop. Also airballed a selfish 28 footer randomly thrown up off this dribble -- having now switched their kissing up to IT even Grant and Jerry refrained from the "that's a shot you want him to take!" mantra on that one. Got beat by Neal for the +1 finsih at the end of the third as all the Spurs had to do to score on tehir end of quarter plays was throw it to their PGs and say, go score. Added a couple of garbagetime hoops to up the statline, but this wasn't horribly effective offensively, and defenisvely got killed.

Stacy Keibler

Williams ( B- ) -- came in passing as usual. Attacking the rim with minimal resistance as the Spurs defense was focused elsewhere, but missing some bunnies in close. Racked up about half of those 8 assists in the garbagetime, and it remains a funy thing how all these late draft picks, midlevel vets, various spare parts we've got stacked up on that bench, and yet this guy we picked up off the waiver wire is just CLEARLY the class of the bunch. The one who sparkles and runs the show. Of course he himself was a lottery pick a few years back, so me may just have lucked into an extra one.

Nicole Scherzinger
 
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Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#3
Hayes ( C- ) -- hey, another 3pt 4reb effort from Chuck in 20min, which is spot on his season averages. After using him as a pseudo PG the other night, there was none of that here, and instead we were left with just a short guy unable to have any effect against all the Spurs passing through our paint. Racked up fouls trying though. Didn't do enoguh to even raise my ire into giving him a D. Really wish Whiteside hadn't went down for the season, although you could see that one coming. This would have been a good game to throw him out there and see what he could do.

Astrid_Berges_Frisbey

Greene ( INC ) -- had one clean highlight when TWill hit him off a cut for a dunk, but minutes were again oddly limited. Certainly could not have been because Smart was worried he would have problems with either Diaw or Bonner.

Josh Holloway -- few things are so fearsome as having to select the occassional obligatory hot guy, because out of the entire universe of women's tastes how do you get one that even covers half of them? Men are easier. So anyway, traveling along the continuum between Zac Efon and George Clooney I stopped off somewhere in the middle, and to show my dedication tp the ladies of the board even uploaded my first picture of a hot guy to my photobucket account so I could resize it.

Garcia ( C- ) -- hit three after enteing in the mid 2nd. Another three in the semi-garbagetime with us down 22 in the 4th, or so I thought -- official boxscore says there was only 1, so one of them must have just been a long jumper. In any case, pretty much all he did. One of those games where he was jsut spotting up for long jumpers, with no other impact. Given that he normally subs in for Reke, maybe this is the role Smart has in mind for Reke as well.

Izabel Goulart -- you know, I had a heck of a time finding a girl for Cisco's grade. Rejected two for being too nude too often, including the one I had originally intended. Rejected a third for not living up to the high standards we have around these grades -- a Miss Mexico no less. And even Izabel almsot ran into trouble because of a couple of less attractive pics of her out there. Then I got hold of myself and decided to quit being an idiot.

Honeycutt ( INC ) -- in for an extended garbaetime role. Did little.

Minka Kelly -- did little, and yet still justifies another pretty girl. Yay for the deep bench!
 
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Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#4
you know between this being the third game in three nights for the Spurs, adn them in their normal "
we only care about the playoffs and will trash your fantasy team" hibernation, I have just realized there is actually a chance this team may just randomly damage our draft position.
You were saying? :eek:

Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad... Gina Grad...
 
#7
At one point in the 4th I think when Thornton was coming back in Grant or Jerry said they need his offense because the spurs were scoring every time down the court....

I was just sitting there thinking yes if the spurs are scoring every time down the court more offense will definitely get us back in the game....
 
#8
Hi guys, it's been a long time since the last time posting in here. Wish you all the best of luck. :)

Sacto Kings have talents, they just have not been able to work them into a coherent & cohesive team. The Spurs are the epitome of the word "team" and it showed tonite. We don't really have top flight talents all over the place, our big three is aging, but i think this year we have a decent shot for another championship.

Regards. :)

PS: Really like Isaiah Thomas, what a steal. We're not that lucky with our own first rounder rookie PG this year, pretty much a work in progress all season long, and not really an encouraging one.
 
#9
tyreke is tremendously inconsistent. A star player shouldn't have nights where he dissapears. Tyreke has those every couple of games. This franchise sucks at developing young players. At the same time tyreke doesn't have the mind of an elite player. Elite players have that swagger about them, where they know they are better. When Tyreke is on he has swagger, when hes not, he looks like a lost puppy. not good. I thought he was going to be a Westbrook type player but taller, he looks like John Salmons 2.0 to me.
 

Mr. S£im Citrus

Doryphore of KingsFans.com
Staff member
#10
Hi guys, it's been a long time since the last time posting in here. Wish you all the best of luck. :)

Sacto Kings have talents, they just have not been able to work them into a coherent & cohesive team. The Spurs are the epitome of the word "team" and it showed tonite. We don't really have top flight talents all over the place, our big three is aging, but i think this year we have a decent shot for another championship.

Regards. :)

PS: Really like Isaiah Thomas, what a steal. We're not that lucky with our own first rounder rookie PG this year, pretty much a work in progress all season long, and not really an encouraging one.
Welcome back, SpursIndonesia. It has indeed been a long tine, but we appreciate you not rubbing our noses in the beatdown.

Thomas has, indeed, been a steal for the DFL pick, and it's starting to seem like he might have been a steal at the 30th pick, too. I'd rather see him as a change of pace guard off the bench, but the organization has put the ball in his hands and said, "Run the team," so any criticism that I, personally, have for his current role as a starter, or this ROY campaign certainly isn't directed at him. If anything, I'm perturbed that we passed on your boy, Leonard, whom we could have had with the #7 and still had Thomas at #60 but, such is life.

I don't really have a horse in the race, and I'm kind of rooting for OKC but, if the Spurs get to the Finals, I'll be rooting for you guys to get #5.
 
#12
At one point in the 4th I think when Thornton was coming back in Grant or Jerry said they need his offense because the spurs were scoring every time down the court....

I was just sitting there thinking yes if the spurs are scoring every time down the court more offense will definitely get us back in the game....
Yep, when that comment was made I just chuckled and shook my head at the absurdity of it all. The complete denial of needing defense is just getting to be too much.

At the start of the broadcast they showed the team's improvement since IT took over as starter.
They showed the same amount of wins with more losses compared to when he wasn't a starter (which of course doesn't make sense since you'd think the way they are talking that the Kings would have a better win/loss record) and then they showed the improvement in offense stats. (PPG, A/TO, Fastbreak points, ect.)
Unfortunately they happened to neglect the defensive story, which is why the record is worse for the team with him starting than with him not.

Hopefully we'll get a full-sized SF on the roster next year and changes can be made to make it a more competitive team on the defensive end.
 
#13
Thomas won't be a rookie anymore come next November so he will probably be moving to the bench or PF. Problem with Anthony Davis is he has nice offensive arsenal already so he will be made the focus of offense and asked to take it easy on the other end. After all he will have to score for this team to win any games. That's why I'm rooting for Drummond. Now that's a guy you don't ask to do much on offense.
 
M

Mal

Guest
#14
Just think, you could have had Kemba Walker or Brandon Knight at 4 and 5 times the salary or even Nolan Smith at 2.5 times the salary. For 10 times as much the Kings could have had Irving, with a special bonus of averaging more than twice as many turnovers per game as Thomas. And, of course, you would have to sell your soul to get the draft rights to the three drafted higher than Thomas, but playing much worse. Hell, Irving is the only one worth trading Thomas straight up for.

But, please, since Thomas will be on the bench next season, where are you going to get a point guard? True point guards that are successful in the NBA are rare....shooting guard are a dime a dozen...point guards get drafted every year with high hopes and end up playing out their contracts on the bench. Which point guard in the upcoming draft can you confidently predict will be better than Thomas, and at what price? Any? What "name" point guard will be willing to go to Sacramento and is available. D Williams? I don't think so. Perhaps, Goron Dragic, but Portland has eyes on him and has lots of cap room and money to spend.

So, rather than bag on the best thing Sacramento has going; offer a solution.
 
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#15
What was the last NBA champion that needed "successful" PG? Ok, the last "successful" PG leading his team to the title without 3 future HOFs on his team?
This team is a mess in need of a major house cleaning. There's no longterm vision anymore and I doubt there are quick fixes anymore. When franchise claims Outlaw for $3 million per for 4 years after his 2010-11 season there's something terribly wrong with it.
Just think, you could have had Kemba Walker or Brandon Knight at 4 and 5 times the salary or even Nolan Smith at 2.5 times the salary. For 10 times as much the Kings could have had Irving, with a special bonus of averaging more than twice as many turnovers per game as Thomas. And, of course, you would have to sell your soul to get the draft rights to the three drafted higher than Thomas, but playing much worse. Hell, Irving is the only one worth trading Thomas straight up for.
And this is just LOL-worthy. You seem to be in your little stats driven world where TV is not available to watch games but you have Internet to access 82games.com.
P.S. "Lies, damned lies, and statistics"
 
#16
You know what I find sad? Not Tyreke Evans' poor play. Not the roster that GP assembled. What I find sad, is that the friggin Spurs bench still runs plays and executes better than our starting line up, and that's entirely on the coach. Also, it's not like they've been together a long time or anything. If you have access, watch around the 5:15 mark of the 4th quarter (Spurs on offense). Look at the screens set and how hard our guys have to fight through them to get to the guy moving without the ball. The result of that play was a back door cut for the Spurs btw.

People talk about having Tyreke, or any player for the matter move without the ball. Well guess what guys, you are not going to run successful plays with guys moving without the ball if you don't even set any screens for them. Maybe people here apparently want Evans to become the next Kevin Martin off the ball. Well here's some quick facts: Kevin Martin a) Idolized Rip Hamilton and watched a lot of Rip's film and b) Is much quicker than Evans and so better able to execute backdoor cuts. How often do you expect Tyreke Evans or anyone else to lose his man moving without the ball if you don't set any screens for him? Every single offensive possession we set 1 (hell not even 1, more like half) a screen for Isaiah Thomas or Tyreke Evans at the top of the key. That's it. Honestly the best play I saw the entire game was the one for Jimmer's first 3.

I find it ironic that Grant & Jerry kept talking about the Spurs' success largely being due to having 1 coach over the years and guys who buy into the system. No surprise then that we suck, considering we change coaches as often as we do starting lineups.

But hey, look at the bright side. Pushed the ball, scored over a 100 points! One of the league leaders in PPG! Hurray! Spurs only scored that much due to us playing a faster pace which gives both teams more possessions!
 
#18



Posted without comment.
Ah screw it. This team will just find itself behind in the rebuilding process yet again in 3 years, DMC and Tyreke will leave and we can continue our playoff drought. Mark my word, if Smart doesn't start coaching properly and Tyreke remains at SF we will not make the playoffs for the next 2 years, minimum. It's not just that we won't be getting that much better, but that while we crawl along in our development changing coaches every year, changing systems within each year, making horrible personnel moves, other teams get a lot better.
 
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#21
tyreke is tremendously inconsistent. A star player shouldn't have nights where he dissapears. Tyreke has those every couple of games. This franchise sucks at developing young players. At the same time tyreke doesn't have the mind of an elite player. Elite players have that swagger about them, where they know they are better. When Tyreke is on he has swagger, when hes not, he looks like a lost puppy. not good. I thought he was going to be a Westbrook type player but taller, he looks like John Salmons 2.0 to me.
Well, that's what one should expect when you move a player not just out of position, not just out of a style of play that he's been used to his entire life, but out of the offensive set entirely. This is not a matter of whether or not that's his fault - sure, if Tyreke played like Rose in his 3rd season he wouldn't have been moved to SF. But simply put, now that he has been moved to SF, you can't expect him to play with the same swagger, you can't expect him to look like he knows what he's doing all the time. Let me bring up something that Grant and Jerry always talk about. Why is it that Jimmer hasn't been able to fit right in as a PG but IT has? Because IT is asked to do exactly what he did in college, whereas Jimmer has to adapt to a new role where he isn't the main guy taking all the shots. That's the exact same thing for Tyreke - he's being asked to adapt to a new role that he has NEVER played before.

Keith Smart has gone from "Tyreke is a PG. He's always had the ball in his hands. He is not an SF." to "We have him at the 3, but he has to realise that he is still very much going to have the ball in his hands, initiating the offense as a point forward" to "Tyreke go stand there in the corner, no no a little further, give DMC and IT some room for goodness sake. FURTHER I SAID! Oh your role? Just stand there, it really isn't that hard. Meh if you think you can make a good cut go for it, doesn't mean we'll pass you the ball on the cut. Set some screens for you? Now why in the world would I do that? Damnit Tyreke what kind of off-the-ball player are you? Ah forget it just go stand there in the corner. If you get the ball just ... I don't know give it back to IT or Cuz or something. Oh by the way you are our best perimeter defender stop slacking out there on defense, how the eff are we supposed to win if you don't help make up for Thornton's poor D? And hello, what kind of defender are you? Can't even stop Kevin ****in Durant. Don't give me any of that 'he's 5" taller' BS"

All I can say is, real happy for IT that he is proving lots of people wrong and taking advantage of the opportunity given to him. You have to be happy for the guy, taken last in the draft and written off by most. It's a shame we have the opposite of synergy, where the value of the players together is less than the sum of each individual.
 

gunks

Hall of Famer
#22
The "coaching" the FO has brought in over the years has been so horrible that it renders the youth movement irrelevant. Cousins was squelched under Westphail, and now Reke is getting the treatment under Smart. The worst part is, Reke was starting to come along and improve in areas of weakness when Smart had him at PG, but since he's gone all smallball, Tyreke and the Kings record has suffered horribly. WHY CANT HE SEE THIS HE'S THE COACH!!! Is he doing this all for IT? I mean, IT is awesome, but just have the dude come off the bench! He'll still put up great stats! He isnt getting ROTY.

Sure am glad he's signed through next season too, who needs Sloan or McMillan? Not us!

**** the Magoofs and **** Petire. We will always suck until they are gone.
 
#23
Good Poll. I voted Equally Important but its a bit more nuanced than that.

A coach can take ordinary/sub-ordinary offensive players call a time out and in 20 seconds get them very close to a score. Offensive schemes/system are easier to setup and easier to get players to buy into. They are easier to tweak to a specific players abilities(if someone takes the time to think it through). Offense doesn't have to include all the players on the court either. This is how some teams can get away with a pure defensive player and how you always hear about guys who get their own numbers without having to have plays run for them. Offense is completed through either pure talent, luck, or its finished at the playbook.

Defense is a bit different defense requires hard work on the individual players part every play it also requires a high degree of understanding and teamwork. If your team mate always pushes a guy left the shot blocker can box out his man to the right early putting himself in a position to have room to step forward and contest the shot(and leaving room for the other big to get position to rebound. If the defensive scheme is to double a player the 3rd and 4th players off the ball off the ball on the perimeter already know they need to start rotating early and so on. If one guy takes off the defensive end you have either a bunch of good individual defenders getting beat by teamwork or you have a completely failed defensive scheme. Individual defense is a habit that requires hard work and team defense is all that and a thinking mans game. Team defense requires all 5 guys to understand and or compensate for each others short comings.

They are both needed but offense is easier especially when you have talented offensive players you can just give the ball too and not have to call plays for.... just ask WP....

They also tie in together. If you are expending too much energy on offense guys will take the defensive side off. This is why its better to expend energy on the defensive side and then have set plays on the offensive side that don't have to involve all 5 guys every time. Our current brand of offensive ball tends to leave us very little energy for the defensive side. You have to take your overall fitness and player's stamina into account when you create your overall system. That said if you have a choice between the best offensive team and the best defensive team ever and they are completely useless on the other side the offensive team will win more games and that's what trips people up(lucky shots/talent can beat even a perfect defense and any offense will miss sometimes even if no defense is played).
 
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#25
Good Poll. I voted Equally Important but its a bit more nuanced than that.

A coach can take ordinary/sub-ordinary offensive players call a time out and in 20 seconds get them very close to a score. Offensive schemes/system are easier to setup and easier to get players to buy into. They are easier to tweak to a specific players abilities(if someone takes the time to think it through). Offense doesn't have to include all the players on the court either. This is how some teams can get away with a pure defensive player and how you always hear about guys who get their own numbers without having to have plays run for them. Offense is completed through either pure talent, luck, or its finished at the playbook.

Defense is a bit different defense requires hard work on the individual players part every play it also requires a high degree of understanding and teamwork. If your team mate always pushes a guy left the shot blocker can box out his man to the right early putting himself in a position to have room to step forward and contest the shot(and leaving room for the other big to get position to rebound. If the defensive scheme is to double a player the 3rd and 4th players off the ball off the ball on the perimeter already know they need to start rotating early and so on. If one guy takes off the defensive end you have either a bunch of good individual defenders getting beat by teamwork or you have a completely failed defensive scheme. Individual defense is a habit that requires hard work and team defense is all that and a thinking mans game. Team defense requires all 5 guys to understand and or compensate for each others short comings.

They are both needed but offense is easier especially when you have talented offensive players you can just give the ball too and not have to call plays for.... just ask WP....

They also tie in together. If you are expending too much energy on offense guys will take the defensive side off. This is why its better to expend energy on the defensive side and then have set plays on the offensive side that don't have to involve all 5 guys every time. Our current brand of offensive ball tends to leave us very little energy for the defensive side. You have to take your overall fitness and player's stamina into account when you create your overall system. That said if you have a choice between the best offensive team and the best defensive team ever and they are completely useless on the other side the offensive team will win more games and that's what trips people up(lucky shots/talent can beat even a perfect defense and any offense will miss sometimes even if no defense is played).
i like this post for the most part, but i have to say that i disagree vehemently on this last point. sure, a team will get lucky once in awhile, but a great defense is always preferable to a great offense. case in two points, starting with boston. they're 26th overall in ppg, but 3rd overall in points allowed. they have a winning record, and have been on a tear in april, as their defense has ratcheted up in anticipation of the playoffs. next up: memphis is 20th overall in ppg, and 7th overall in points allowed. they have a winning record, and have also been on a tear in april, as their defense has ratcheted up in anticipation of the playoffs. neither team is particularly prolific on the offensive end, but that hasn't stopped their success. both teams will be seeded around 4-5 in their respective conferences, and you can bet whoever they play will not be excited to contend with them. these are playoff-bound teams that win games because of their defense. now let's look at two offensively-charged specimens: the kings and warriors are 9th and 10th in ppg, respectively. however, they are 30th and 29th in points allowed per game, respectively. they are not winning games. more to the point, they're basement dwellers, goin' nowhere fast. the playoffs are an absolute fantasy for these two teams because of their defenseless styles of play, not in spite of it. and this isn't an aberration. if you look across the history of the modern nba, you will notice that this trend prevails: winners get by on defense. they're often also good offensive teams, but they're never last in the league in major defensive categories...
 
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VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#27

Josh Holloway -- few things are so fearsome as having to select the occassional obligatory hot guy, because out of the entire universe of women's tastes how do you get one that even covers half of them? Men are easier. So anyway, traveling along the continuum between Zac Efon and George Clooney I stopped off somewhere in the middle, and to show my dedication tp the ladies of the board even uploaded my first picture of a hot guy to my photobucket account so I could resize it.
Hrm. I'm pleasantly surprised. :)
 
#28
Tyreke having 5/3/1 in 38min = WTF moment of the season. Period.
My WTF moment of the season was extending Smart's contract. Because clearly our record is ever so awesome, despite having DMC (one of the top 5 centers in the league?), Isaiah Thomas (who has "held his own" or "outplayed" every PG he's matched up against, from Goran Dragic to Kyrie Irving to Tony Parker), John Salmons (the veteran sent to us from heaven), former ROY "point forward" Tyreke Evans, defensive god Chuck Hayes and college player of the year Jimmer Fredette. All descriptions implied from Grant & Jerry's musings.

I really do not see this better offense that we run. Faster, yes. We run breaks better, that's about it. The rest is Westphal offense 2.0, with less open shots actually. Just that you ISO Cousins or IT or Thornton instead of Tyreke. Still no screens, LESS cuts, less open 3s. If JT was still missing easy shots around the basket we'd be f'd.
 
#29
i like this post for the most part, but i have to say that i disagree vehemently on this last point.
Sorry I was not at all clear there. I meant that people will use the argument that you have to score to win games and I was taking it to the extreme that a 100% offense 0% defensive team would win over a 0% offense 100% defensive team and that is what trips people up into thinking offense is more important then defense.

They are equally important but defense requires more work in games.
 
#30
Sorry I was not at all clear there. I meant that people will use the argument that you have to score to win games and I was taking it to the extreme that a 100% offense 0% defensive team would win over a 0% offense 100% defensive team and that is what trips people up into thinking offense is more important then defense.

They are equally important but defense requires more work in games.
Naww that doesn't make sense. IF it's 100 each way you'd end up with 0-0 as the final score. Think about it. If you then say that despite very very good defense the offensive team can still score by some small chance of luck then the same goes for the 0% defensive team. Their offense can be shooting from 3/4 court but they can still get lucky and make a shot.