What kind of player do you see Tyreke Evans as, 5+ years from now?
- Thread starter Lockehead
- Start date
Posted this as a reply in another thread but it’s actually more appropriate here.
I call it “The Tale of Two Tyrekes”
Chapter 1
20 against the Lakers
27 against the Hornets
26 against the Bucks
28 against the Magic
29 against the Raptors
27 against the Rockets
23 against the Spurs
31 against the Jazz
Note that the Kings went 5 and 3 in those games and were competitive (by their standards) in all 3 losses.
Chapter 2
4 points against the Trailblazers
9 points against the Grizzlies
8 points against the Nuggets
3 points against the Mavericks
9 points against the Timberwolves
8 points against the Pacers
9 points against the Trailblazers
12 points against the Nuggets
Note that the Kings went 1 and 7 in those games and every single loss was a blowout. See the correlation? Think it's a coincidence? I don't.
I call it “The Tale of Two Tyrekes”
Chapter 1
20 against the Lakers
27 against the Hornets
26 against the Bucks
28 against the Magic
29 against the Raptors
27 against the Rockets
23 against the Spurs
31 against the Jazz
Note that the Kings went 5 and 3 in those games and were competitive (by their standards) in all 3 losses.
Chapter 2
4 points against the Trailblazers
9 points against the Grizzlies
8 points against the Nuggets
3 points against the Mavericks
9 points against the Timberwolves
8 points against the Pacers
9 points against the Trailblazers
12 points against the Nuggets
Note that the Kings went 1 and 7 in those games and every single loss was a blowout. See the correlation? Think it's a coincidence? I don't.
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I should really be doing something else but still:
Team 3P% - Group B
.188 against the Trailblazers
.375 against the Grizzlies
.095 against the Nuggets
.095 against the Mavericks
.235 against the Timberwolves
.258 against the Pacers
.389 against the Trailblazers
.450 against the Nuggets
I agree that Tyreke should be way more consistent than he actually is, and I think it's more of a mental thing rather than a talent one, but a good chunk of his horrible games came from poor 3-point shooting nights by our team. Meaning of course that the opposing defence could collapse into the paint without having to worry about wide open three point shots.
More on this: team's 3P% in Tyreke's rookie season .349, team's 3P% this season .281. A star by definition should perform regardless of his teammate's performance, but it would be nice if our guards could convert open shots at a decent rate while our supposed star develops a reliable mid range game.
Team 3P% - Group B
.188 against the Trailblazers
.375 against the Grizzlies
.095 against the Nuggets
.095 against the Mavericks
.235 against the Timberwolves
.258 against the Pacers
.389 against the Trailblazers
.450 against the Nuggets
I agree that Tyreke should be way more consistent than he actually is, and I think it's more of a mental thing rather than a talent one, but a good chunk of his horrible games came from poor 3-point shooting nights by our team. Meaning of course that the opposing defence could collapse into the paint without having to worry about wide open three point shots.
More on this: team's 3P% in Tyreke's rookie season .349, team's 3P% this season .281. A star by definition should perform regardless of his teammate's performance, but it would be nice if our guards could convert open shots at a decent rate while our supposed star develops a reliable mid range game.
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Ask any GM in the league...do you want Tyreke Evans...... what is the answer..... What happens if you surround him with strong roleplayers even some playoff experienced vets to play with....Does he get better?? I think he does..and he can be much more consistent and develop more of his game if those kind of conditions were present same goes for Cousins...That is part of what makes Hayes so important to the team...we need more glue guys that care about winning and not stats.
I think time is ticking away for Tyreke. There are young players who have obviously gotten considerably better since they came into the league - Westbrook, Durant, Harden, Connelly, Love, to name a few. So far, Tyreke hasn't made that big step up, which I hoped for/expected in his third year. In fact, I based the 0.500 prediction for the Kings this year largely on Tyreke making a jump in his game, as well as the progress of the other youngins on this team. Alas, it was not meant to be. If Tyreke continues with the same straight line progression that we've seen over the past 2.5 years, then he's not going to be an All Star in this league, much less a superstar. He's got to fundamentally, radically, change his off-season workout program. Because whatever he's been doing in the offseason, it's been a failure. Hopefully, he's seen that he must get considerably more well rounded in his game to accomplish great things in this league, and hopefully he'll get some outstanding coaching in the off-season in order to accomplish it. Tick, tick, tick, tick.....
Tyreke has flaws in his game and he can make poor decisions at times. But to say that the play of his teammates have no impact on Tyreke's game is not an accurate statement. The play of Tyreke's teammates, especially the wings ability to knock down an open shot, plays a huge part in how well Tyreke will play in the game.
It's all actually quite simple. Tyreke's best skill is his ball-handling and ability to drive to the basket. People still consider him having the ability to run the team because he can do a great job of finding the open man on the wings (and especially the corners) when he drives into the lane.
So let's consider two different scenarios.
Scenario 1
Tyreke drives into the lane, the defense collapses on him, but they are not able to collapse quickly enough on him due to their proximity to the wing players and he is able to score at the rim. (2 points)
2nd time down the lane, the defense this time plays a bit off of the wing players, and when they collapse, it leaves a wing player wide open in the corner. He passes it to the corner and the SG/SF airballs the open 3pt corner shot. (1 assist lost)
3rd time down the lane, the same thing happens. The defense hedges away from the perimeter, clogging the paint, the pass goes out to the open wing, who misses the wide open shot. (Another assist lost)
4th time down the lane, Tyreke is tired of his teammates missing wide-open shots, so he forces a tough shot in the lane and misses. (Poor FG attempt)
As long as Tyreke's teammates are unable to hit open shots it takes away driving lanes from Tyreke, reduces assist totals, and creates situations where tougher shots are going to be taken.
Now contract the Scenario 1 to Scenario 2
Scenario 2
Tyreke drives into the lane, the defense collapses on him, but they are not able to collapse quickly enough on him due to their proximity to the wing players and he is able to score at the rim. (2 points)
2nd time downt he lane, the defense plays a bit further from the wings to collapse the paint on Tyreke, Tyreke hits the open man on the wing who then knocks down the corner 3. (2 points + 1 assist)
3rd time down the lane, the defense plays the wings more honestly, leaving a lane open for Tyreke who then finishes at the rim. (2 points)
If you're not able to see how a teammate's ability to knock down the open shot greatly impacts Tyreke's game, then I'm not certain what can be said. If his teammates are playing poorly, it allows the defense to load up on Tyreke. If his teammates are playing well, it forces the defense to make a choice on which 'poison' they will select, either load up on Tyreke and have him rack up assists as his teammates hit the open shot, or play the wings honestly, thereby giving Tyreke a better lane to the basket.
This is the same situation that Dwight Howard is in. If the team defense decides to double-team Howard everytime he gets the ball in the post, because his teammates are missing all of their open shots that he gets them, then Dwight will have a much tougher game than if his teammates were knocking down all of their shots.
Basketball is a team sport and how well a player plays has a lot to do with the performance of other players. In this case, Tyreke becomes a much better player when his teammates are hitting open shots.
It's all actually quite simple. Tyreke's best skill is his ball-handling and ability to drive to the basket. People still consider him having the ability to run the team because he can do a great job of finding the open man on the wings (and especially the corners) when he drives into the lane.
So let's consider two different scenarios.
Scenario 1
Tyreke drives into the lane, the defense collapses on him, but they are not able to collapse quickly enough on him due to their proximity to the wing players and he is able to score at the rim. (2 points)
2nd time down the lane, the defense this time plays a bit off of the wing players, and when they collapse, it leaves a wing player wide open in the corner. He passes it to the corner and the SG/SF airballs the open 3pt corner shot. (1 assist lost)
3rd time down the lane, the same thing happens. The defense hedges away from the perimeter, clogging the paint, the pass goes out to the open wing, who misses the wide open shot. (Another assist lost)
4th time down the lane, Tyreke is tired of his teammates missing wide-open shots, so he forces a tough shot in the lane and misses. (Poor FG attempt)
As long as Tyreke's teammates are unable to hit open shots it takes away driving lanes from Tyreke, reduces assist totals, and creates situations where tougher shots are going to be taken.
Now contract the Scenario 1 to Scenario 2
Scenario 2
Tyreke drives into the lane, the defense collapses on him, but they are not able to collapse quickly enough on him due to their proximity to the wing players and he is able to score at the rim. (2 points)
2nd time downt he lane, the defense plays a bit further from the wings to collapse the paint on Tyreke, Tyreke hits the open man on the wing who then knocks down the corner 3. (2 points + 1 assist)
3rd time down the lane, the defense plays the wings more honestly, leaving a lane open for Tyreke who then finishes at the rim. (2 points)
If you're not able to see how a teammate's ability to knock down the open shot greatly impacts Tyreke's game, then I'm not certain what can be said. If his teammates are playing poorly, it allows the defense to load up on Tyreke. If his teammates are playing well, it forces the defense to make a choice on which 'poison' they will select, either load up on Tyreke and have him rack up assists as his teammates hit the open shot, or play the wings honestly, thereby giving Tyreke a better lane to the basket.
This is the same situation that Dwight Howard is in. If the team defense decides to double-team Howard everytime he gets the ball in the post, because his teammates are missing all of their open shots that he gets them, then Dwight will have a much tougher game than if his teammates were knocking down all of their shots.
Basketball is a team sport and how well a player plays has a lot to do with the performance of other players. In this case, Tyreke becomes a much better player when his teammates are hitting open shots.
It’s also a statement no one has made, which makes it a straw man argument.
Sure his teammates have an impact. The question is to what degree. I’m willing to accept that poor team play overall is partly responsible for poor play from Tyreke. But I put most of the blame for Tyreke’s poor play on Tyreke himself. As a foundational piece, he’s simply got to be better. Your best players should make their teammates better, not vice versa.
Like I said, it has an impact. I doubt anyone would deny that. It’s not significant enough of an impact to alleviate Tyreke from accountability, though.
It’s pretty senseless to argue much further at this point though. Kfs are obviously divided into two camps when it comes to Tyreke and to what degree his inconsistent play is hurting the team.
Sure his teammates have an impact. The question is to what degree. I’m willing to accept that poor team play overall is partly responsible for poor play from Tyreke. But I put most of the blame for Tyreke’s poor play on Tyreke himself. As a foundational piece, he’s simply got to be better. Your best players should make their teammates better, not vice versa.
Like I said, it has an impact. I doubt anyone would deny that. It’s not significant enough of an impact to alleviate Tyreke from accountability, though.
It’s pretty senseless to argue much further at this point though. Kfs are obviously divided into two camps when it comes to Tyreke and to what degree his inconsistent play is hurting the team.
Kind of a senseless question because they wouldn't be the same players on any other team. All players are "products of their environment" to a degree. They might be better, they might be worse. Who knows. Allow me to turn your question back at you and ask you this. Do you think OKC would be a good team right now if they had drafted Thompson, Evans, Cousins, and Fredette instead of the Kings?
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So you are asking if our guys are better than Durant essentially? What is the point of that question?
But Reke/Cousins/Thornton would look a LOT better and a lot more dangerous is they were surrounded by Ibaka, Seflosha, Perkins than they do with the current crew. Those are top roleplayers. Top DEFENSIVE roleplayers. Its funny how the good teams pile those guys up.
But Reke/Cousins/Thornton would look a LOT better and a lot more dangerous is they were surrounded by Ibaka, Seflosha, Perkins than they do with the current crew. Those are top roleplayers. Top DEFENSIVE roleplayers. Its funny how the good teams pile those guys up.
Look, the skills of Westbrook and Rose would be identical to what they already have if by magic they were transported to the Kings. Their effectiveness might be degraded, but their skills would remain the same. Why is that such a difficult concept? If a guy has just a right hand, he has just a right hand no matter what team he's on. If he can't hit open 3 pointers, it doesn't matter what team he's on. If he can't do a runner, doesn't matter what team he's on, he still can't do the runner. But his effectiveness with his limited skill set is going to matter what team he's on. And the more limited the skill set, the greater that player is going to have to rely upon other players to minimize his weaknesses and maximize his strengths.
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Tyreke is what he is. He has a limited set of skills, and it doesn't matter what team he's on; he still has his limited set of skills. The best that can be said is that if he was on the best outside shooting team in the NBA that his limited skill set would be more effective than with the worst shooting team in the NBA. But you know what? Good players also raise the play of their teamates. It's not just the team raising the play of a particular player. It's not just a one-way street.
What's amazing to me is that you're one of the few people here besides me who seems to get this obvious concept. It's just hard to believe that so many people think great players would somehow not be great players if they were on the Kings. As if a wizard is coaching the Thunder and created Durant and Westbrook via some magic spell.
Yes, there is definitely the tendency to inflame the importance of the environmental factors (coaching, organization, etc) and to minimize the importance of individual responsibility. It's almost a "political" thing in which there is the underlying belief that the individual is just the sum of his environmental experiences, and individual choice is a a figment of all of our imaginations. We are mere mirrors to the environment in which we live and because we live in Kings-land all player inadequacies and limitations are due to our terrible Kings-land environment.
There is a balance out there somewhere in the individual responsibility vs. environment dynamic.
There is a balance out there somewhere in the individual responsibility vs. environment dynamic.
That remains a ridiculous take. Tryeke is one of the most complete young players in the entire league with one glaring hole. And he has a limited set of skills. Pfft. There is a reason I have lost patience with this nonsense. People sincerely don't comprehend what they are watching, hence its impossible to even have a conversation about it.
Hi, I can score, pass, rebound and defend. I have an elite ability to get to the hoop. But I am not much of a shooter yet. Hence I have a limited set of skills. Who am I? Well LeBron for one. Westbrook for another. Or that skillless guy in Sacramento.
Hi, I can score, pass, rebound and defend. I have an elite ability to get to the hoop. But I am not much of a shooter yet. Hence I have a limited set of skills. Who am I? Well LeBron for one. Westbrook for another. Or that skillless guy in Sacramento.
If Tyreke can develop his shot to the point that it becomes a significant threat and guys can sag on him AND becomes significantly more consistent he can be an absolute stud and cornerstone for this franchise. If he can't, he will remain exactly what he has been - a talented player that will tease you with a phenomenal one game and then disappear the next.
Here is a new article in the Bee today about what Smart is doing with Tyreke. Anybody who disagrees with what Smart is doing can take it up with him.
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/30/4224264/kings-evans-receives-smart-advice.html
http://www.sacbee.com/2012/01/30/4224264/kings-evans-receives-smart-advice.html