I think people underestimate just how experienced Rubio is. Not as experienced as Soviets and Yugoslavians that came in the early nineties but it's not that far. He played against and trained with grown men for 6(!) years before coming to the NBA. He played for 5 different coaches in a lot of systems. All Tyreke heard his whole career is "take the ball and go inside". Let's wait at least till the end of the season when teams start to figure Rubio out. After all there wasn't even a month since the start of the regular season.
Tyreke over Rubio(it has to be said)
- Thread starter jcwkings
- Start date
For people who don't live in the area, the debate is also interesting because of the way that Jerry, Mike Lamb, and Grant a little, crapped all over the guy for 3 months after the draft. There was a lot of buzz over Rubio, and a ton from the morning show here to get Rubio.
When the Kings passed on him, the station/team made a huge push to stamp that out. Jerry said he was nothing special, that he was a lot like Luke Ridnour with some youtube clips, and Mike Lamb kept saying his mom cut his steak for him at dinner. Jerry really went after the guy a couple of times.
So, if you had to listen to that crap, its another wrikle to the story.
When the Kings passed on him, the station/team made a huge push to stamp that out. Jerry said he was nothing special, that he was a lot like Luke Ridnour with some youtube clips, and Mike Lamb kept saying his mom cut his steak for him at dinner. Jerry really went after the guy a couple of times.
So, if you had to listen to that crap, its another wrikle to the story.
And Jerry was still taking cheap shots at Rubio a year after. Another part of the wrinkle to that story is the battle between Jerry and (I think it was) Chad Ford. Ford said the Kings were interested in Rubio, then Jerry called Ford a puppet for player agents(as opposed to a puppet for ownership?) and Ford responded with some trash talk I think.
Most of these Rubio fanboys are the same ones that were kissing Tyreke's *** two months into his rookie season. Let wait and see what Rubio will be like next year when defences focus in on him as much as they are focusing on Tyreke and wonder if those same fanboys will move onto their new toy this time next year.
Except that none of those guys, none of them, were/are the primary scoring threat on their team. Tyreke is supposed to be, meaning that the offense and personnel have to be designed around him, and that's tough to do with Tyreke's skillset.
Regarding Jimmer's D, Jimmer will not be this bad at defense forever. I'm not saying he will be a standout defender, but you can shore up his defense with good team D. I'm not saying start the guy now over Thornton, but in a year or two, I can see it working.
Regarding Jimmer's D, Jimmer will not be this bad at defense forever. I'm not saying he will be a standout defender, but you can shore up his defense with good team D. I'm not saying start the guy now over Thornton, but in a year or two, I can see it working.
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Reke has been terrible lately, and Rubio is awesome. And I wont deny that a Rubio/Cousins duo would be pretty sweet.
BUT!
Reke hasnt exactly had coaching his first two years in the league. Westphail just let him do whatever he wanted on the court, and although it was pretty fun in the 20/5/5 year (besides the not actually winning games part), now its coming back to haunt us in that Reke is essentially still a rookie in BBIQ. Now we have Smart who is trying to turn him into a PG (wasnt that Worstphool's job?)...And he's going through growing pains. His assists are up though.
SO...Best case scenario for both players. Rubio is looking like a lock to have multiple seasons of (at least) 11 assists and 2 steals per game. But he probably will never score more than a 16ppg if that. Reke, if he ever comes around, can really take over games...And get you 20+ pts per game, 6 assists, and play some lockdown D. Best case.
Now, whos more likely to reach that best case scenario? EASILY Rubio. I'd say with him its a given he'll give you amazing PG numbers. Reke...Not so sure. Its too soon and his first 2 years in the league were a bust.
Would I pull the trigger on a Rubio for Reke trade? Hell yeah, but I wouldnt be surprised to regret it a couple years down the road either.
BUT!
Reke hasnt exactly had coaching his first two years in the league. Westphail just let him do whatever he wanted on the court, and although it was pretty fun in the 20/5/5 year (besides the not actually winning games part), now its coming back to haunt us in that Reke is essentially still a rookie in BBIQ. Now we have Smart who is trying to turn him into a PG (wasnt that Worstphool's job?)...And he's going through growing pains. His assists are up though.
SO...Best case scenario for both players. Rubio is looking like a lock to have multiple seasons of (at least) 11 assists and 2 steals per game. But he probably will never score more than a 16ppg if that. Reke, if he ever comes around, can really take over games...And get you 20+ pts per game, 6 assists, and play some lockdown D. Best case.
Now, whos more likely to reach that best case scenario? EASILY Rubio. I'd say with him its a given he'll give you amazing PG numbers. Reke...Not so sure. Its too soon and his first 2 years in the league were a bust.
Would I pull the trigger on a Rubio for Reke trade? Hell yeah, but I wouldnt be surprised to regret it a couple years down the road either.
In defense of my post:
In his rookie year Reke didnt learn anything, had all his bad habits encouraged by a bad coach/management to pad his stats, and we lost TONS of games.
Rookie not learning anything his 1st season = bust of a year.
And lets not overhype the ROY thing. Its awesome, but Curry and Jennings were in the conversation for Pete's (Carril) sakes! If Griffin wasnt hurt he wouldnt have sniffed it.
Edit: and some of you might be a bit confused by my wording. I dont mean to say Reke was a bust in his rookie year, he was great. The year itself was a bust because I dont think he got anything out of it (besides ROY of course).
In his rookie year Reke didnt learn anything, had all his bad habits encouraged by a bad coach/management to pad his stats, and we lost TONS of games.
Rookie not learning anything his 1st season = bust of a year.
And lets not overhype the ROY thing. Its awesome, but Curry and Jennings were in the conversation for Pete's (Carril) sakes! If Griffin wasnt hurt he wouldnt have sniffed it.
Edit: and some of you might be a bit confused by my wording. I dont mean to say Reke was a bust in his rookie year, he was great. The year itself was a bust because I dont think he got anything out of it (besides ROY of course).
Reke certainly won that ROY award. His main competitors were Curry and Jennings. But the circumstances must be acknowledged. Reke had 1 skill he had which is probably top 5 in the league. On a team that allowed him to use that ability whenever he wished. And defenses didn't know how to stop it. So in that year, 09-10, he certainly won it. But the context must be acknowledged as well.
Some of the stuff in here is incredible. This should be revisited in a few years, way too early to tell.
I'm a big Rubio fan as anyone that's been here for the last few years will testify to. I'm also a big Tyreke fan, and I criticise when it's due. Some of the stuff here is above and beyond that, though. It's bordering on genuine hatred which is mind-boggling when you consider how talented he is, and the fact that he PLAYS FOR YOUR TEAM! Rubio has been excellent so far, and I'm sure will be a great PG, but he can only dream of being able to do some of the stuff Tyreke is capable of. Evans does some things that not many other guards in the NBA can even attempt. Of course, he's not consistent yet - people are crazy if they think he's reached his ceiling. The guy is 22 years old!
I'm not a homer when it comes to this. I treat Tyreke like everyone else. He's not above criticism, but people are just being stupid as hell about this. Talking about him as if he's a scrub is just ludicrous. I mean, ridiculously stupid. He has a lot to improve on and no, he's not perfect. But when he's on, he is impossible to stop and a hell of a player. Have people forgotten what a young player looks like? If someone can name me one star who peaked at 22 then I'll eat my hat. It just doesn't happen. Patience, people. There could be some very silly looking people in a few years if Tyreke reaches near his potential. The problems of coaching, shortened season, injuries etc. have already been addressed. The team as a whole is struggling, Rubio wouldn't fix that, he's not magic. This argument could go down in the history of this forum as the most irritating recurring topic ever.
I'm a big Rubio fan as anyone that's been here for the last few years will testify to. I'm also a big Tyreke fan, and I criticise when it's due. Some of the stuff here is above and beyond that, though. It's bordering on genuine hatred which is mind-boggling when you consider how talented he is, and the fact that he PLAYS FOR YOUR TEAM! Rubio has been excellent so far, and I'm sure will be a great PG, but he can only dream of being able to do some of the stuff Tyreke is capable of. Evans does some things that not many other guards in the NBA can even attempt. Of course, he's not consistent yet - people are crazy if they think he's reached his ceiling. The guy is 22 years old!
I'm not a homer when it comes to this. I treat Tyreke like everyone else. He's not above criticism, but people are just being stupid as hell about this. Talking about him as if he's a scrub is just ludicrous. I mean, ridiculously stupid. He has a lot to improve on and no, he's not perfect. But when he's on, he is impossible to stop and a hell of a player. Have people forgotten what a young player looks like? If someone can name me one star who peaked at 22 then I'll eat my hat. It just doesn't happen. Patience, people. There could be some very silly looking people in a few years if Tyreke reaches near his potential. The problems of coaching, shortened season, injuries etc. have already been addressed. The team as a whole is struggling, Rubio wouldn't fix that, he's not magic. This argument could go down in the history of this forum as the most irritating recurring topic ever.
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Yep yep. I think that coddling of bad habits thing has ended with Smart though. We're seeing some major growing pains from Reke, but his assists are up, and there have been moments where it seems like he is making headway in the PG department. For all his being pimped as a PG by the franchise, its shameful that they are barely trying to develop that part of his game.
I mentioned in a game thread that this year is going to seem like a rookie year from Reke. Terrible games, as well as absolutely dominating ones. He's probably uncomfortable having to play in a system for the first time, but it seems like he's slowly learning. Smart is trying to make a complete player of Reke. It takes time.
These dark days may be what transform Reke from Hughes 2.0, to Wade .5
I mentioned in a game thread that this year is going to seem like a rookie year from Reke. Terrible games, as well as absolutely dominating ones. He's probably uncomfortable having to play in a system for the first time, but it seems like he's slowly learning. Smart is trying to make a complete player of Reke. It takes time.
These dark days may be what transform Reke from Hughes 2.0, to Wade .5
Yep, How many have titles or league MVP's the past 25 years? Lets see Rose MVP last year, LBJ has MVP's, Duncan has lead his team to titles and has MVP's, AI has an MVP, Shaq has titles and MVP, and we go back farther for MJ for titles and MVP. So were looking at 3 ROY who lead their teams to titles in Duncan, Shaq and MJ. Don't think Evans is close to their league. So ya, ROY is abit overrated.
Anyone that thinks Tyreke stinks is an uncompromised idiot. I don't care how you attempt to justify it.
Gary, let it go. We're not getting Rubio, forget it. What's the point? You don't even want Tyreke to succeed, you'd prefer he plays badly so you can continue your tirade of vitriol. It's just weird.
Gary, let it go. We're not getting Rubio, forget it. What's the point? You don't even want Tyreke to succeed, you'd prefer he plays badly so you can continue your tirade of vitriol. It's just weird.