I think its starting to be clear that we made a mistake taking tyreke evans over ricky rubio. We essentially took a poor mans lebron james in a sg's body over a guy who is looking like a young jason kidd (not a poor mans j kidd). The arguements were that Rubio was "soft" a stereotype given to alot of Euros. Well Iv'e seen quite a few Wolves games this season and can say Ricky is far from soft, in fact he seems to show an intensity and toughness that very few NBA players have. Tyreke on the other hand seems to wilt once he gets a couple of his layups blocked. The other arguement was that Rubio would be a terrible NBA defender. Well from what I have seen he has the length and enough quickness to be a very solid NBA defender, and he is a steals machine. Basketball IQ cant be taught, and it has to be said that Rubio wins in this category by a landslide along with court vision. Rubio's teammates love him because they know they can get the ball at any moment, with Tyreke playing point gaurd the rest of his teammates more than not become statues around the perimeter. I don't want to bash Tyreke too much because he hasn't had great coaching, but when you have a great point gaurd drop to you, you take him. A Cousins and Rubio combo surrounded by shooters and another scorer (Marcus Thornton?) sounds alot more promising tbh.
Tyreke over Rubio(it has to be said)
- Thread starter jcwkings
- Start date
Rubio appears to be a great player. Still would take Evans, though, a hundred times out of a hundred. I still think he has more upside than Rubio, I'm confident that he'll figure it out, and I'm in no rush, anyway. This team isn't going anywhere, with or without Evans.
Apropos of nothing, purely personally aesthetic preference, both guys were available in '96, knowing what we know now, I'd still take Allen Iverson over Steve Nash.
Apropos of nothing, purely personally aesthetic preference, both guys were available in '96, knowing what we know now, I'd still take Allen Iverson over Steve Nash.
I don't want to even dip my foot into the pool of cognitive dissonance that is Tyreke Evans love.
I'd rather look at the question from the viewpoint of the Maloofs and their reasoning at the time. Tyreke had immediate presence to sell to the public. He would be playing now. There was no "will he come overseas" issue. He already had a NBA body and he could do something that produced points in the NBA. The whole idea of Tyreke being the choice because he would be here and be ready to play in the NBA immediately has been a common take on the reasons why he was selected. I think part of this reasoning is that waiting for a draft pick would hurt fan support and further hurt finances. Reke represented an immediate face and immediate draw.
But I am curious if Rubio's playstyle will bring free agents to the NBA wasteland that is Minnesota. Playstyle got FAs to come to Sacramento in the past. Will it do that for Minny? And in that case, will the draft choice end up being a financial mistake for the Maloofs? If Rubio can attract talent and attract fans, doesn't that do what the Maloofs need to survive? Right now talent and fans are both scared of what the Kings are right now.
So it's interesting to me in a turn of fortune way for the ownership.
I'd rather look at the question from the viewpoint of the Maloofs and their reasoning at the time. Tyreke had immediate presence to sell to the public. He would be playing now. There was no "will he come overseas" issue. He already had a NBA body and he could do something that produced points in the NBA. The whole idea of Tyreke being the choice because he would be here and be ready to play in the NBA immediately has been a common take on the reasons why he was selected. I think part of this reasoning is that waiting for a draft pick would hurt fan support and further hurt finances. Reke represented an immediate face and immediate draw.
But I am curious if Rubio's playstyle will bring free agents to the NBA wasteland that is Minnesota. Playstyle got FAs to come to Sacramento in the past. Will it do that for Minny? And in that case, will the draft choice end up being a financial mistake for the Maloofs? If Rubio can attract talent and attract fans, doesn't that do what the Maloofs need to survive? Right now talent and fans are both scared of what the Kings are right now.
So it's interesting to me in a turn of fortune way for the ownership.
You're not supposed to acknowledge that!
No "player bashing", LOL.
You're supposed to pretend that Tyreke doesn't disappear in 2/3 of games.
You're supposed to overlook that NBA defenses seem to have figured out his one dimensional game after his rookie year.
You’re supposed to deny that he comes into camp out of shape, seems to lack motivation, tends to be lackadaisical on the court, etc.
You're supposed to ignore that Ricky Rubio's passing and basketball IQ are EXACTLY what the Kings sorely lack.
That’s what real fans do!
No "player bashing", LOL.
You're supposed to pretend that Tyreke doesn't disappear in 2/3 of games.
You're supposed to overlook that NBA defenses seem to have figured out his one dimensional game after his rookie year.
You’re supposed to deny that he comes into camp out of shape, seems to lack motivation, tends to be lackadaisical on the court, etc.
You're supposed to ignore that Ricky Rubio's passing and basketball IQ are EXACTLY what the Kings sorely lack.
That’s what real fans do!
So we should only discuss things that no one has ever thought of before?
In all honestly, I don’t see what’s supposed to stupid about the OP. They expressed an opinion and backed it up with observations.
From my perspective it seems like anyone who dares criticize Tyreke is deemed “stupid”.
I could see having negative reacion if someone was just saying...”HAHA, Tyreke sucks. He’s garbage, lol. Say hello to Anaheim.” or something like that. Folks just seem to be routinely upset merely by someone criticizing Tyreke at all, though.
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2 years in and there's still no improvement in the jumpshot. and I havent seen enough to say he improved his decision makig, his defense though is good but not as good as the other in his rook year.. you can't blame all of that on a coach, that's his doing... team tyrekes failure does not extend to the FO, it is frustrating to see tyreke not live up to the potential the maloofs were gushing about, if he gets that jump shot etc. etc. like wise with the other guy if he gets a jumpshot he can be just as deadly... every one becomes one step closer to being a monster with a consistent jump shot, heck derozan can be a beast if he does..
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Yeah, the "if he gets a jumpshot he'll be unstoppable" stuff isn't much different from if I won the lottery I'd be rich, if my aunt had a (blank) she'd be my uncle, etc. The reality is that he doesn't have a jumpshot and waiting for him to develop one at this stage is a huge gamble in which the odds aren't very good. And that's not even addressing that he has major problems other than his lack of jump shooting ability. For every good game he has he pulls a disappearing act in two or three others. A player that inconsistent will never be franchise caliber. Heck, Spencer Hawes would have been a keeper if he had been consistent, but that's a big IF. Consistency is probably the biggest thing separating great players from average ones. A consistent players without much talent is far more valuable to me than a "star" that gives you 30 points one night and 5 the next. That's why Jason Thompson has moved way up on my list. He's finally seemed to learn what his role is and he brings it on a regular basis.
Problem is, it's not when...it's if. We've been waiting nearly two and a half seasons and there's still no jump shot in sight. At what point do we accept that he's never going to be a good jumpshooter? His 4th year, 5th year, 6th year?
Rondo can get away with not having a jumpshot because he’s so effective at running a team.
Tyreke can’t get away with it unless he learns to run a team. I’d like to be optimistic but I just don’t see a whole lot of promise that he’s ever going to be good at either, (having a J-shot or running a team). But, I HOPE he proves me wrong.
Rondo can get away with not having a jumpshot because he’s so effective at running a team.
Tyreke can’t get away with it unless he learns to run a team. I’d like to be optimistic but I just don’t see a whole lot of promise that he’s ever going to be good at either, (having a J-shot or running a team). But, I HOPE he proves me wrong.
You haven;t been watching him much this year I gather?
Probably the biggest revelation with Reke is that he actually CAN run an offense...for stretches. He will of course never be Rubio, but he's shown real flashes of being able to direct things. The larger questin right now might be if he is able to do so and minatina his offensive game at the smae time.
I'm a huge Evans fan, but I think he's one of the hardest star players in the NBA to build an offense around. He isn't an outside threat, so you have to design plays carefully to free up lanes for him. He is best penetrating to the hole, so you need bigs with a bit of a midrange game and wings who are money from 3pt range for the kickout game. Paul Milsap would be my choice for a PF, and Luol Deng for SF as complementary pieces. His court vision is decent, but not amazing, and his passing is good, but often off-target enough that it will allow a defender to close before the shooter can line up a shot.
I think he fits well with Cousins, but not necessarily in a 2-man game. Pick and rolls are not going to work because the defenders can sag off him and go under the pick, which means they can defend both Cousins and Tyreke if Cousins is rolling to the hoop. Pick and pop is somewhat effective, but I would rather have a finish at the rim. I would like to see him running more backdoor cuts when he doesn't have the ball instead of floating around the perimeter.
I also think that he is a more natural fit with Jimmer on the floor than Thornton for the sole reason that Jimmer seems to actually like making plays for teammates. Assuming Jimmer continues to improve and shores up some of his defensive liabilities, I think those two could be a potent backcourt in another year or two. Let Tyreke carry the heavy lifting on defense and alternate ballhandling depending on how the defense is aligned. I'm still not sold on Thornton as a starter until he shows a consistent willingness to play team ball.
I think he fits well with Cousins, but not necessarily in a 2-man game. Pick and rolls are not going to work because the defenders can sag off him and go under the pick, which means they can defend both Cousins and Tyreke if Cousins is rolling to the hoop. Pick and pop is somewhat effective, but I would rather have a finish at the rim. I would like to see him running more backdoor cuts when he doesn't have the ball instead of floating around the perimeter.
I also think that he is a more natural fit with Jimmer on the floor than Thornton for the sole reason that Jimmer seems to actually like making plays for teammates. Assuming Jimmer continues to improve and shores up some of his defensive liabilities, I think those two could be a potent backcourt in another year or two. Let Tyreke carry the heavy lifting on defense and alternate ballhandling depending on how the defense is aligned. I'm still not sold on Thornton as a starter until he shows a consistent willingness to play team ball.
What you should be concerend with is how to hide Jimmer as a starting..what? Shooting guard? On defense.
And if inability to shoot were really some great hindrance to being able to run a team as a PG, Ricky Rubio, Jason Kidd, Andre Miller, and a whole host of other guys would have been in serious trouble. Reke will never be a pick and roll guy, and frankly he doesn't need to be because he's more talented a a scorer than that and can get to the hoop wihtout the pick. But there's more to basketball than that 1 play. Its a good play if you have the personnel, and should always be in your quiver, but its not the be all. The thing about Cousins and Reke is they both have such outlandish skills offensively that that sort of cheat is not really necessary. Be nice. But its not like Shaq and Kobe were picking and rolling people to death.
Big backcourts aren't a part of the NBA right now. There's not any great young 2guards to worry about beyond Eric Gordon. Kobe is in his twilight and Wade is the only other concern. The Kings recently got beat by two teams that start two PGs in the backcourt in the Nuggs and Wolves. The Sixers start Meeks and Jrue, both 6'4 and Meeks mostly being a spot up guy that you don't need a super athlete to guard. The Clippers start double PG backcourts with Paul and Mo or Paul and Billups. The Magic start Jameer and Reddick. It's more a question of speed on defense with Jimmer rather than size.
You cannot compare Tyreke to those types of players because his game is entirely different. Tyreke does not yet have the ability to get the ball where it's needed at the right time. Those guys DON'T need to score to dominate games. For Tyreke to be effective, he's going to have to learn how to shoot above 30% from the field because he's never going to be a great passer. Teams have shown they can stop Tyreke by simply crowding the paint, and if he doesn't learn to shoot, it's going to continue to have inconsistent games.
