This Kings team may be the most selfish basketball team I've ever seen...

[Italics]

I am admittedly a new fan to the Kings, but I am an avid basketball fan (and player) who spends a lot of time watching basketball. I do enjoy college basketball more, but I get my decent fill of the NBA as well.

And sometimes a fresh, objective perspective is the most accurate, right?

So let me say what no one here seems to be saying: This team is selfish. I'd almost go as far as to call them arrogant - except I don't want to judge their personalities off the court based off of how they act and play on the court.

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here: When I watch the Kings play, I feel like I'm watching 1v1/street basketball. Nearly every player on the Kings seems to have a me first, shoot first attitude. Jimmer is not the only player that doesn't get the ball passed to him when he's open... in fact, if Thornton/Tyreke/Cousins/or almost any other Kings player has the ball, it doesn't seem to matter what the defense is doing, or how many teammates are in position to score - they only seem to be interested in "how can I get points?"

Watching this team, there is barely any semblance of an offense. I say that not in terms of talent or shooting ability (which also seems low), but rather in terms of running plays and understanding the game.

In fact, I'd go as far as to say that the Kings played just as well in the first half as the second - in the first half, they were lucky to have some shots fall, but overall, the offense was sloppy, the shots were stupid, and it was only a matter of time before things crumbled. I even said to my buddy, "this offense is nonexistent, they are lucky their shots happen to be falling, but if they running the offense like this in the second half they will get blown out." Sure enough, I was right.

Nearly every player on the team is at partial blame for this, but Tyreke and Cousins stick out the most. I don't care how much talent they have, you'd think at one point or another, they would say to themselves, "Gee, self, this team has been pretty awful for awhile. Maybe I am not the superstar I think I am. Maybe I CAN'T carry this team to victory solely on my own shoulders. Maybe I'm not the hot-shot I thought I was."
Let me put it simply and stupidly: If I had a hotdog stand and I got crappy business, and the people who DID buy my hotdogs said they tasted awful, I'd probably say to myself "Gee, maybe my hotdogs really are bad." The same thing goes for the team: you have a bunch of guys who have not had much success in the league (team-wise) playing like they think they are all-stars.

As a team, and with all the different pieces they have, I think Sacramento has the talent to make the playoffs.
As individuals, I just don't see it (yet). Blame Coach W all you want for his rotations - I'd be frustrated too if I were him, and unsure of who I could trust to actually play like a TEAM player when on the court. I've seen more plays run in the YMCA league than I have in four Kings games... this team is not playing NBA caliber offense right now.

 

[cstorm]

So hotdogs are the key. Interesting perspective.

 

[TheWileyVet]

I agree with this thread. Westphal needs to teach these boys to run an offense.

 

[Glenn]

I agree with this thread. Westphal needs to teach these boys to run an offense.

He can't, won't, doesn't.

 

[RookieOfTheDay]

Calling them selfish is an oversimplification. It appears that when things are going well, they share the ball and play well as a team. We saw that against the Lakers and we saw that for about 2 quarters tonight. They become "selfish" only when things start to go bad. I put selfish in quotes there because I don't think it's really an accurate description. I think desperation, panic, reverting to bad habits, etc. are more apt descriptions. When the game starts to get out of hand, they stop running their offense and everyone starts playing hero ball, jacking up quick, oft ill-advised shots, etc. to try and stop the bleeding. It's a classic sign on an undisciplined and or immature team but it doesn't really have anything to do with selfishness. Selfishness is when Kobe freezes out his teammates. Selfishness was Chris Webber going 2/20 and still shooting the ball. I haven't seen anything like that on this team.

 

[TehSwimGuy]

Calling them selfish is an oversimplification. It appears that when things are going well, they share the ball and play well as a team. We saw that against the Lakers and we saw that for about 2 quarters tonight. They become "selfish" only when things start to go bad. I put selfish in quotes there because I don't think it's really an accurate description. I think desperation, panic, reverting to bad habits, etc. are more apt descriptions. When the game starts to get out of hand, they stop running their offense and everyone starts playing hero ball, jacking up quick, oft ill-advised shots, etc. to try and stop the bleeding. It's a classic sign on an undisciplined and or immature team but it doesn't really have anything to do with selfishness. Selfishness is when Kobe freezes out his teammates. Selfishness was Chris Webber going 2/20 and still shooting the ball. I haven't seen anything like that on this team.

I think it's that most of the big players feel the need to take it upon themselves to win the game. Thornton, Evans, Cousins. When the game starts going bad, they panic, and start to revert to hero mentality, stagnating the offense and digging them into a deeper hole. The only person I've seen who's been giving up shots is Jimmer, and that looks to also be partial rookie nerves.

 

[ArcoKings]

The blame gos to PW but most of the blame goes to the F.O. for bringing in these inexperienced coaches for the last 4 or 5 years now. Its the same pattern. The players play per the coach's instructions, system and style. PW doesn't have the know-how to fully develop the players and expose their talents.

 

[kingsfan101]

Don't know if the team is selfish, but it plays so. Don't get to watch a lot of Kings' games so won't generalize, but today was brutal.

That said, it might be more due to a lack of structure, than selfishness per se. Some of the passes the guys were making, one almost wished they went one on one. Once the Blazers tightened the defense, the guys were totally lost. If was just one on one, followed by a contested jumper.

I've never bought much into the argument about Reke not being a PG etc. However, today if anything, I felt the team needed one. If not Reke, someone who can get the team into some sets. Jimmer is not there yet, if he shall ever be. IT is more of a dribble/penetrate, score/kick out guy. There was virtually no off the ball movement, little post play even when Cousins was playing well, and lot of dribble dribble, shoot.

I became a Kings fan during the golden years. Didn't know anything about BB, and the only NBA player I had heard about, when I first came to US was MJ. When I started watching NBA, saw the exquisite passing, beautiful off the ball movement, Divac's threading the needle passes, backdoor cuts, etc., which is why I became a KF. While we certainly had gifted passers, all of Rick's teams have shown similar stuff. Wonder if PW shall be able to instill a fraction of that in this unit. Ultimately, I think it's more on the coaching staff than the players.

 

[Mad D]

words

Your screen name should have been bold

 

[rhythmless]

Your screen name should have been bold

There are worse offenders of formatting and the English language as a whole on this site. Ellipse man and the rampant overuse of "as an aside" come to mind. Mr. Bold has good points. Poor spacing, confused players, handing ball off, action staying on one side of the court.

 

[swisshh]

That said, it might be more due to a lack of structure, than selfishness per se. Some of the passes the guys were making, one almost wished they went one on one. Once the Blazers tightened the defense, the guys were totally lost. If was just one on one, followed by a contested jumper.

I've never bought much into the argument about Reke not being a PG etc. However, today if anything, I felt the team needed one. If not Reke, someone who can get the team into some sets. Jimmer is not there yet, if he shall ever be. IT is more of a dribble/penetrate, score/kick out guy. There was virtually no off the ball movement, little post play even when Cousins was playing well, and lot of dribble dribble, shoot.

The problem might be that the front office simply doesn't understand that position and doesn't have anyone who can step up and say, "Uhhh guys this is what a guard running the offense really looks like and guess what? It's very important."

Quotes and moves over the years suggest this to me.

And right now, the roster is so guard heavy, and you probably aren't trading either Evans, Jimmer or Thornton, and as such, you don't have many minutes to offer a guard that can fix the problem. So you have to go to that less common point-SF type.

This is why Mike Conley is so important to the Grizz and their team falls apart without him. He's unremarkable, but he makes the rest of the team work and he's reliable at doing that. There is no reliable offense-runner on the team.

 

[kingsfan101]

The problem might be that the front office simply doesn't understand that position and doesn't have anyone who can step up and say, "Uhhh guys this is what a guard running the offense really looks like and guess what? It's very important."

Quotes and moves over the years suggest this to me.

And right now, the roster is so guard heavy, and you probably aren't trading either Evans, Jimmer or Thornton, and as such, you don't have many minutes to offer a guard that can fix the problem. So you have to go to that less common point-SF type.

This is why Mike Conley is so important to the Grizz and their team falls apart without him. He's unremarkable, but he makes the rest of the team work and he's reliable at doing that. There is no reliable offense-runner on the team.

Maybe change of personnel shall address the issue. However, I think it's more on the coaching staff. We do need more structure in half court. There was virtually no movement without the ball. We were not able to feed the post consistently. Sometimes, Cousins was asking for the ball in the post, and was unable to receive it (though certainly Blazers did a good job denying him). He had to come to the top to receive the ball, and then sometimes took ill-advised 15-18 footers. I hope some of these issues can be addressed with the current group.

There shall be nights when shots shall not fall, and the team shall lose, and lose big. But seeing iso one on one play, with no proper plan was the real issue for me at least.

On an unrelated note, a lot of times, our young guards were caught napping as the Blazers leaked out for easy fast breaks. That's another area the coaching staff should emphasize. This is particularly important for us, as we take lot of long shots.

 

[swisshh]

Coaching is certainly a part of the problem, as this issue is not new to this set of players. This has been an issue since Westphal became coach. Still, even if there was a system in place, who on the team would hold the rest of the players to the system? They paid Hayes a lot of money to do that on defense, but it's been the offense's amateurish nature that has been the most disturbing part of the team the last couple of years.

 

[slugking50]

And we are only 2 games into the season and the blame F.O, coach, etc nonsense begins...

They've had 3 weeks together and are the second youngest team in the league....... Relax!

 

[Prince_XY]

And sometimes a fresh, objective perspective is the most accurate, right?

So let me say what no one here seems to be saying: This team is selfish. I'd almost go as far as to call them arrogant - except I don't want to judge their personalities off the court based off of how they act and play on the court.

I said it in another thread, and I'll say it here: When I watch the Kings play, I feel like I'm watching 1v1/street basketball. Nearly every player on the Kings seems to have a me first, shoot first attitude. Jimmer is not the only player that doesn't get the ball passed to him when he's open... in fact, if Thornton/Tyreke/Cousins/or almost any other Kings player has the ball, it doesn't seem to matter what the defense is doing, or how many teammates are in position to score - they only seem to be interested in "how can I get points?"

Watching this team, there is barely any semblance of an offense. I say that not in terms of talent or shooting ability (which also seems low), but rather in terms of running plays and understanding the game.

The Kings did not play like this when they played their first game against the Lakers.

Right?

So, there's still hope this game against the Blazers could be "just one" of those nights. And I hope it is the case.

 

[swisshh]

Yeah, well, when you've been using the "we're young, be patient" line for 3-5 years, and the fanbase has seen you cycle through draft talent over and over without building towards anything, then two games is more than enough to call out the F.O. and coach for the same persistent problem not being fixed. The excuse quickly becomes the standard when youth and talent don't become anything more but youth and potential.

 

[ParniValjak]

And we are only 2 games into the season and the blame F.O, coach, etc nonsense begins...

They've had 3 weeks together and are the second youngest team in the league....... Relax!

We've said all of that for the last 2 years. The coach just does not know how to get the best out of his best offensive players. Tyreke only taking 8 shots, Cousins settling for ill advised jumpers etc... These things are on coach! Good coaches will have the plays for his best players to get them going. When players get into a rough patch, the coach should direct his players from the sidelines, call come plays to try and get them going, not sit back, throw his hands in the air when the ill advised shots continue to be taken and his only move is to come up with rotations that even the dumbest can see would not work.

A young team like ours, that is growing together needs a coach who will guide them. Someone that will take control when they hit a rough patch and help them get out of it. I am not talking about a micro manager but clearly a coach who knows when to get on the front foot and when to let them figure it out themselves. Westphal tends to let them figure it out themselves and by the time he realises that they can't, the horse has already bolted and he comes up with dumb line ups as his counter actions.

You players you guide and develop by making a few calls from the sidelines, by making them run certain plays in certain situations. Once they mature and becomes more aware of these things, then you let them play through it. With kids, you have a different approach. I am not saying have them on short leash and micro-manage them, no way but do take control when you see things out there.

Or maybe that is his problem, he doesn't see things evolving soon enough and realises it too late.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

What I know FOR SURE that the team needs is;

Jimmer & IT should not play together.
Jimmer should not guard Small Forwards. We are just setting him up for failure, when its already hard enough for him right now. He needs to learn to guard PGs.
Thompson and Hickson should play limited minutes together if any at all. (They are the exact same player pretty much and we get torched on defense)
Utilize Chuck & DMCs passing more.
Practice our goddamn freethrows
Take speed before the game
Change our mascot to Chewbacca
Redbull instead of Gatorade
Each player get Mike tyson tattoos
Eat opposing players children
Breakdance celebrations after scoring
Sign Adam Morrison & Bill Murray
Free Beer night every home game
Ride out on Lions during intros
Listen to Chumbawamba at halftime
Replace all sneakers with moon boots
Steroids
Replace Westphal with Whoopie Goldberg

all pretty clear things, that should change within a few games!

 

[UK_King]

Is it selfishness or is it just not having a choice?

If you've got the ball and you're faced with 4 other guys just standing there locked down you have to do something.

that was the problem, 1 on 1 or high screen in isolation is not going to get you too many wins unless you've got a high high talent level.

This "go out and express yourself" offense won't work if you've got nothing to express.

 

[RDub21]

I think we've seen the whole spectrum of Kings play in two nights. Against the Lakers and the Blazers in the 1st quarter when the shots were falling and the "offense" is going, they look like a legit playoff team. For the other 3 quarters, they look like a bunch of chuckers. It's early though, this team will mature and gain some experience playing together. I'm not worried about them.

 

[Tyndel]

The question I have had for the last 2 years is, Since WP can't get the foundations and fundamentals in place, how much is this hurting all our players long term? We know he can't coach a good offense the players know it and so when the simplistic plays we run break down they go 1 on 4. We have poor spacing and it hasn't been because of our shooting its been because the players weren't in the right spot.

Its like WP believes that everyone in the NBA is a mature professional and all he needs to do is give them a basic framework and they will thrive when he should have been micromanaging from the sideline until the leaders on this team get into the habit of running plays then you start to give them room.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

What I know FOR SURE that the team needs is...

Replace Westphal with Whoopie Goldberg

"Eddie" may actually be the worst movie ever. If you told me either I had to watch last night's game again or watch that movie, I'd pick last night's game.

 

[Big Cuz 15]

are there even any offensive sets the coach is running? probably NOT. my belief is that he will be retained after the season is over. for now, i'll watch us win a few exciting games and hope for another high lotto pick.

 

[OptimusRhyme]

"Eddie" may actually be the worst movie ever. If you told me either I had to watch last night's game again or watch that movie, I'd pick last night's game.

You take that back!

 

[jsb]

I agree with the original poster that there is very little offensive scheme. It was funny watching Jimmer trying to set screens for his guys and they just looked at him like WTF are you doing. Like they have never come off a screen before.

Fact is this team is going to look bad when Evans and Thornton cant hit a shot. They rely to much on the outside shot and dont feed it to the post enough.

 

[lwc]

What I know FOR SURE that the team needs is;

Jimmer & IT should not play together.
Jimmer should not guard Small Forwards. We are just setting him up for failure, when its already hard enough for him right now. He needs to learn to guard PGs.
Thompson and Hickson should play limited minutes together if any at all. (They are the exact same player pretty much and we get torched on defense)
Utilize Chuck & DMCs passing more.
Practice our ... freethrows
Take speed before the game
Change our mascot to Chewbacca
Redbull instead of Gatorade
Each player get Mike tyson tattoos
Eat opposing players children
Breakdance celebrations after scoring
Sign Adam Morrison & Bill Murray
Free Beer night every home game
Ride out on Lions during intros
Listen to Chumbawamba at halftime
Replace all sneakers with moon boots
Steroids
Replace Westphal with Whoopie Goldberg

all pretty clear things, that should change within a few games!

I agree with all of the bold type. The others are funny though.

 

[ESP47]

Part of it is because when one guy has the ball, everyone just stands around waiting for him to do something with it. When Tyreke doesn't have the ball, he doesn't venture in farther than the 3pt line. He should be posting up position on smaller PG's or cutting to the basket. Our whole offense is built around the drive and kick. We hope Tyreke, Salmons or Thorton can drive far enough in the lane to get double teamed and kick it out to the open man. Last night they were getting triple teamed and couldn't find anyone. It was like anyone that had the ball was double and triple teamed and there was never an open man. Partly because the "open" players and just standing around doing nothing.

 

[IfAt1st]

OptimusRhyme - funny stuff, man.

What I know this team needs is a coach that can implement a serious, NBA-proven offensive (and hopefully defensive) system.
I'm talking about pick-and-rolls and screens - 2 of the only plays that teams use when the defense ratches up the pressure.

PW has had more than 2 full seasons to do this, and has failed so badly he didn't even TRY.

 

[bajaden]

Well I hate to be too critical after just two games. But I will! First though, it has to be acknowledged that we have a very young team playing in a shortened season after a very short training camp, and just two exhibition games. Like it or not, you have to take that into account. We have two new players in our starting lineup that wern't even on the team last year. We apparently have two rookies, and two other players in Outlaw and Hickson that are in the current rotation that wern't on the team last season. Now I know a lot of you don't give a tinkers damm about any of that, and expect perfection desite it. And you probably expect to win the lottery everytime you buy a ticket as well. Simply not reality!

However, I think its fair to criticize some of the moves that have been made. As mentioned in another thread, having Fredette try and guard a player, thats very athletic and 6 inches taller is the fault of the head coach. He got away with having Thomas guard Kobe for a few sequences the night before, and apparently he visualized this as a formula for success. Not!! I read a quote from Westphal in the Bee this morning (yes the Bee is still a limited source of information) saying that he wasn't locked into a set offense, but rather, he liked the players reading the defense and then reacting to it. In other words, he's saying that the players can fly by the seat of their pants. He wasn't talking about starting with plan A, and if the defense takes that away, then going to plan B and then C. No! He was talking about winging it.

To tell your team to wing it, means a lot of one on one play with little passing of the ball. Well Portland took away just about every play the Kings started with last night, and we saw a lot of one on one play. When you have five players on the floor, it only takes one or two of them to start playing one on one, and the rest of the team will eventually become frustrated and follow suit.

Question: In the first half Thompson played very well. Why then was he sitting on the bench as an afterthought for most of the second half? Expecially when we got killed on the boards everytime Cousins was out of the game. Another question: In the fourth quarter, when he took out Cousins for a blow, and we started getting killed inside, why did he wait so long to bring him back? Question: Does Westphal really think that a lineup of Thomas, Jimmer, Thornton, Outlaw, and Hayes is going to win you a lot of games. What the hell is he smoking? When you have Evans admiting that he's not sure what our offense is, how the hell can you expect any kind of continuity from this team.

Success starts at the top. If you can accept that your GM has given you enough talented players to work with, (subjective) then it falls on the coaching staff to utilize those players the best possible way. Too often the players get the blame, when if fact, they end up becoming victims of poor offensive and defensive schemes. Is it really Evans fault that for the last two years he was Westphal's golden boy that could do no wrong. That he was allowed to freelance whenever he wanted with no regard for the other playes on the floor. And now suddenly he's confused because Westphal says, Opps, you can't do that anymore. As a matter of fact, I don't want you handling the ball as much anymore, or taking nearly as many shots. Except, of course, on some nights when you can. I don't know which nights, but I'll let you know after the game.

I'd like to be able to get inside Westphals mind for just five minutes and see how it works. Problem is, I'd probably come out insane. I felt good about most of what the new season was going to bring, but my biggest reservation was Westphal. Why would I think he could change his spots. He's still doing the same things he did in Phoenix and Seattle. I entered this season with the hope that he would prove me wrong. I don't want him to be a failure. And I'm willing to give him more rope. But I'm not optimistic based on what I've seen so far. We suddenly have Don Nelson on steroids. Actually, I'd rather have Don Nelson. I suspect that if things don't change, we'll have Keith Smart.

 

[pshn80]

I agree with the original poster that there is very little offensive scheme. It was funny watching Jimmer trying to set screens for his guys and they just looked at him like WTF are you doing. Like they have never come off a screen before.

Fact is this team is going to look bad when Evans and Thornton cant hit a shot. They rely to much on the outside shot and dont feed it to the post enough.

You're right on with your WTF comment. I think our 1, 2, and 3 (Evans, Thornton and Salmons) need attitude adjustments. As you say, if their shots aren't going we're done. Hope they all can learn from last night and become at least "two trick dogs".