Is this the worst Petrie miscalculation that you've ever personally witnessed?
- Thread starter Anthony1
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Yeah there's definitely that part of it too, and I understand the risk involved. But like you mentioned, they cannot use the whole salary cap and Webber was one of the highest paid players at that time. Contenders are usually over the cap so even if they were to take Webber and trade him to a contender, they'd have to take salary back (teams under the cap can absorb salary, their trading partners would still have to match). Which brings us back to them not able to use the whole salary cap. It would have been an idiotic move to select Webber at that time. Ironically, had they chose him it would've made us look even more idiotic.
Anyway this is ancient history. The only reason I brought it up is because I was unaware that we basically had no other choice but to leave Gerald unprotected. I was under the impression this whole time that Petrie chose to protect Peeler instead, when apparently that wasn't the case
Anyway this is ancient history. The only reason I brought it up is because I was unaware that we basically had no other choice but to leave Gerald unprotected. I was under the impression this whole time that Petrie chose to protect Peeler instead, when apparently that wasn't the case
I think this is where it gets complicated. Wallace may have been one of those Trevor Ariza type players who had to grow up and get kicked around a bit before he started acting professionally. He clashed with Adelman and showed questionable maturity here. Had he remained in Sac he likely would have been planted to the bench for a couple of years. Being left unprotected and going to an expansion team where he could play 30+ minutes a night and make a ton of mistakes without it mattering were pretty important to his development. Not saying we shouldn't have kept him, but it's also not clear that he would have become today's Gerald Wallace if we had.
That's not even really a debate seeing as how they traded Webber for table scraps less than a year after protecting him anyways. Obviously he wasn't seen as part of the teams long term plans post injury. They should have left him unprotected and hoped Charlotte took him if they were going to trade him anyways.
At the time I wanted them to leave Webber unprotected; however, they didn't know at that time if Webber would completely come back from his surgery or not. It was evident in his play after his return that his mobility was very limited, but there was the possibility that he would regain some of that and become much the player he had been. We know now that he never really regained his old form.
Thats how I remember it as well. I remember thinking at the time that they would expose Songaila, and then found out that they couldn't, so then it came down to Webber and Wallace. I thought they might expose Webber, since there wasn't a chance in hell he would have been picked. Because of the total salaries being smaller for an expansion team, I think Webbers salary would have taken up over half their entire salary base. Ultimately, I guess Petrie didn't want to insult his star player. I didn't agree at the time, and I still don't.
Back to the topic's miscalculation, Dally walking would make things even worse. The team would have 2 and a half holes. Salmons filling half the SF hole because of questions to his on court chemistry. The trade created a PG hole and Dally walking creates an interior presence hole. Most of the good FAs are SFs, but there are other big men. Is there enough cap to replace Dally and get a vet PG? And the normal PR people are talking like there might be another move. For what? There's too many SFs right now.
Being the 2nd pick in the 09 draft, and then being sent to the D-League because you aren't deserving of even garbage time minutes.
GW going to Cha was because of a numbers crunch. He was on a stacked, playoff team, and a player or two who normally would have been made available instead weren't under contract at seasons end.
If you ask me, being made available for the expansion draft on a non-playoff team would be more insulting, if that's how you're looking at it. There are good players, on great teams, who can't crack the rotation, yet if that same player was on a bad team, he would. It all depends on the players situation.
How about all the players made available for the expansion draft, who then couldn't even make CHarlottes roster?
GW going to Cha was because of a numbers crunch. He was on a stacked, playoff team, and a player or two who normally would have been made available instead weren't under contract at seasons end.
If you ask me, being made available for the expansion draft on a non-playoff team would be more insulting, if that's how you're looking at it. There are good players, on great teams, who can't crack the rotation, yet if that same player was on a bad team, he would. It all depends on the players situation.
How about all the players made available for the expansion draft, who then couldn't even make CHarlottes roster?
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Wallace being drafted by the Bobcats was the best thing that ever happened to his career. He was happy to be out of Sacramento, because he couldn't crack Adelman's rotation. He went to Charlotte, got regular minutes, and blossomed as a real NBA player. I wish he could have done that for us, because his defense and rebounding were sorely lacking on our team, but playing behind Peja (who was good for 25ppg at that time) pretty much kept him nailed to the bench. Then, playing for a coach who puts a premium on shooting, and not being able to shoot, was another problem for him. Oh well, bygones.
He wouldn't have been the key to us not sucking for all those years, so it's really not that big of a deal. But had we simply had another player under contract for the 2005 season, he wouldn't have been exposed.
He wouldn't have been the key to us not sucking for all those years, so it's really not that big of a deal. But had we simply had another player under contract for the 2005 season, he wouldn't have been exposed.
In retrospect, leaving Webber unprotected and trading Peja at the peak of his value would have been a master stroke. It was very soon after this that the core of that team fell apart. Brad Miller was not a capable replacement for Vlade, Peja was not a reliable first option, Doug Christie's health declined rapidly and Chris Webber's career was effectively done. But that's all easy to see now, you can't blame Petrie too much for wanting to keep as much of that 2002 team together as possible.
But that doesn't mean I give him a free pass on Gerald Wallace. By all accounts he reluctantly drafted him in the first place and didn't put much value on his overall skillset. Leaving him unprotected was virtually a guarantee that he would be going to Charlotte. It's the same broken record we've heard a half dozen times: we had a guy ahead of him who was an average defender and below average rebounder, but one of the better shooters in the league. Wallace was raw offensively and had no jump shot at that point in his career but he was an elite athlete, an above average defender, and a good rebounder at his position (who would eventually become one of the best at his position). Different front offices have differing basketball philosophies which tend to dictate the players they draft, trade, or sign. If Gerald Wallace had been drafted by a team like Detroit, San Antonio, or (as it turns out) Charlotte he probably would have found a role right away.
I'm not saying Geoff should have bumped Peja Stojakovic in the prime of his career to make Wallace a starter, but he didn't have to give him up for nothing and if he valued him as a part of the rotation at all he would have kept him protected. That was absolutely one of the biggest mistakes of his Kings tenure.
But that doesn't mean I give him a free pass on Gerald Wallace. By all accounts he reluctantly drafted him in the first place and didn't put much value on his overall skillset. Leaving him unprotected was virtually a guarantee that he would be going to Charlotte. It's the same broken record we've heard a half dozen times: we had a guy ahead of him who was an average defender and below average rebounder, but one of the better shooters in the league. Wallace was raw offensively and had no jump shot at that point in his career but he was an elite athlete, an above average defender, and a good rebounder at his position (who would eventually become one of the best at his position). Different front offices have differing basketball philosophies which tend to dictate the players they draft, trade, or sign. If Gerald Wallace had been drafted by a team like Detroit, San Antonio, or (as it turns out) Charlotte he probably would have found a role right away.
I'm not saying Geoff should have bumped Peja Stojakovic in the prime of his career to make Wallace a starter, but he didn't have to give him up for nothing and if he valued him as a part of the rotation at all he would have kept him protected. That was absolutely one of the biggest mistakes of his Kings tenure.
Not protecting Wallsce was one of Petrie's biggest blunders. I thought Darius wasn't legible for exposure, we all know Peeler wasn't eligible. Exposing Webber made sense, but I think politically, it makes the Kings look bad, so I'll forgive that. Clearly, he F'd up on this one. It's not like the expansion draft was a surprise.
To those that thought Walka e showed nothing in hid minutes, you didn't watch his big minute games.
Another factor was his chilly ratio ship with Adelman. Remember tge Xmas Dallas game. He played very very well, then refused to play due to injury or something else and BAM! deep deep in the doghouse, complete with calling him out in the papers. Based on what he did on the court, you protect him. Petrie and Adelman possibly thought him not worth the bother.
To those that thought Walka e showed nothing in hid minutes, you didn't watch his big minute games.
Another factor was his chilly ratio ship with Adelman. Remember tge Xmas Dallas game. He played very very well, then refused to play due to injury or something else and BAM! deep deep in the doghouse, complete with calling him out in the papers. Based on what he did on the court, you protect him. Petrie and Adelman possibly thought him not worth the bother.
Funny that the debate over whether Songaila could be exposed was going on almost seven years ago just after the draft. Here are some posts I found on the subject:
Then this is the closest I could come to finding a real source on the subject (note that this incarnation of the board started a few months after the expansion draft):
http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/draft_central_draft_chatter.html
I would note that whether or not Songaila was eligible (instead of Wallace), it seems the conventional wisdom at the time was that Wallace would be exposed and I saw nothing indicating anybody thought Songaila should (or could) be the one instead.
Then this is the closest I could come to finding a real source on the subject (note that this incarnation of the board started a few months after the expansion draft):
http://www.nba.com/bobcats/news/draft_central_draft_chatter.html
I would note that whether or not Songaila was eligible (instead of Wallace), it seems the conventional wisdom at the time was that Wallace would be exposed and I saw nothing indicating anybody thought Songaila should (or could) be the one instead.
Yeah I don't think we had the option of exposing Songaila. Either way, I don't think this was about Petrie forgetting about the expansion draft. Even though Wallace showed flashes that year, he had been a completely inconsistent and unreliable player in his first two seasons, so it's not like we went into that season thinking "we have to find a way to protect this guy in the expansion draft." Aside from a few good showings, he really didn't warrant this type of debate, based on his body of work. Hindsight being 20/20, we rail on Petrie for not doing something to keep him, but he wasn't an integral part of the team, nor would he have blossomed like he did if he had continued playing for Rick Adelman, behind Peja.
Also, regarding Peeler, we should keep in mind that he and his agent knew there was an expansion draft coming up as well. It's likely that they strongly opposed anything more than an option for a second year on that basis alone. Can't just force a guy to sign a two year deal if he doesn't want to.
In a perfect world, we would have taken some sort of trade at some point during that season, and secured a guaranteed contract player for the 2005 season that we could have left exposed. But we're really talking about a player that was unproven and had shown very little in his first three years in the league. Sucks that he went on to be a good player for another team, but he wasn't a star player or anything. He was the 12th man by the end of the year.
Also, regarding Peeler, we should keep in mind that he and his agent knew there was an expansion draft coming up as well. It's likely that they strongly opposed anything more than an option for a second year on that basis alone. Can't just force a guy to sign a two year deal if he doesn't want to.
In a perfect world, we would have taken some sort of trade at some point during that season, and secured a guaranteed contract player for the 2005 season that we could have left exposed. But we're really talking about a player that was unproven and had shown very little in his first three years in the league. Sucks that he went on to be a good player for another team, but he wasn't a star player or anything. He was the 12th man by the end of the year.