The Honda center is the best option

[Arena Skeptic]

I think the point is that as a tennant, they could have second choice on scheduling. Each market is a bit different, but there are days of the week and times that are coveted for scheduling home games. This affects how many tickets get sold. For example in the Staples Center, the Lakers get to schedule their dates first, the LA Kings are second and the Clippers get whatever is left. Since Samueli owns the Ducks and their attendance is one of the weaker in the NHL, he will probably get first crack at the scheduling dates. And the NHL season is pretty close to the same as the NBA. And what about playoff dates?

It goes back to a point I have been trying to make about how green that grass is there. Samueli wants the NBA, but he isn't going to give up everything he has with his NHL team just to lure the Maloofs. With no ownership in the Kings involved, he taking care of his team first. The Kings are just there to fill into scheduling holes.

One question I have, though: Isn't the tennant issue moot? Hear me out.

If they stay in Sac, it will be because the City has agreed to build a facility that meets nearly every item on the Maloof family's wish-list -- whatever that wish-list is (parking rights? ROFR? The sphere of influence? Control of all events? We just don't know.), but they will still be... TENNANTS. If they get everything they were asking for the last time this went up for a vote, I'd suggest the public will object if the Maloofs don't pay for about 75% of the building.

See where I'm going? If they want all the rights of ownership, the public won't be satisfied if they don't pay for 75% of it.

But if they don't want all these privileges that come with ownership, they're just tennants -- so they might as well be in OC.

I just have myself more and more convinced that, heck, if it was me, I'd go too. Look at the demographics; look at how much it will cost them to stay...

I'm back to my grumpy, cynical self; I'm running out of good reasons they should stay.

If they leave, we're not getting another team. The NBA will contract before a team moves to Sac.

On a scale of 1-10, I'm sitting at about a 9+ right now. Sounds bad, I know. Eh, what do you expect from me?

 

[Glenn]

People missed or dismissed the part of one of my notes where I stated I thought the rush to move now is caused by the fear that if the Maloofs really spend the money they promised to spend this summer and get a starter out of the draft, all very likely to occur, the team will get markedly better and so will the attendnace, They won't be able to justify a move as they ae a success here with a loyal fan base. They will be stuck in Sacramento.

They are afraid the team will seemingly become a success in Sacramento.

I say seemingly because in the past, when the team was a success on the floor, the team salary sky rocketed and they still lost money or didn't make much money. Medium sized or small market teams don't have a chance financially or at least the Kings don't have a chance as demonstrated by the past with the Maloofs as the owners. They know this as well as anyone.

Conclusion: the Kings cannot make money if their team sucks and they cannot make money if the team is a success.

The new CBA MUST address this state of reality

 

[Section 101]

One question I have, though: Isn't the tennant issue moot? Hear me out.

If they stay in Sac, it will be because the City has agreed to build a facility that meets nearly every item on the Maloof family's wish-list -- whatever that wish-list is (parking rights? ROFR? The sphere of influence? Control of all events? We just don't know.), but they will still be... TENNANTS. If they get everything they were asking for the last time this went up for a vote, I'd suggest the public will object if the Maloofs don't pay for about 75% of the building.

See where I'm going? If they want all the rights of ownership, the public won't be satisfied if they don't pay for 75% of it.

But if they don't want all these privileges that come with ownership, they're just tennants -- so they might as well be in OC.

I just have myself more and more convinced that, heck, if it was me, I'd go too. Look at the demographics; look at how much it will cost them to stay...

I'm back to my grumpy, cynical self; I'm running out of good reasons they should stay.

If they leave, we're not getting another team. The NBA will contract before a team moves to Sac.

On a scale of 1-10, I'm sitting at about a 9+ right now. Sounds bad, I know. Eh, what do you expect from me?

You totally miss how it works.

MSE would be the management team running the Arena here. Just like Samueli is the management team that runs the Honda Center. The city of Anaheim owns the Arena. The city of sacramento would own the arena here. The management team pays to lease the arena just like any other business leases office space. In the past, deals were being made where the Maloofs would own the Arena. Those plans are all gone now. They would just run the arena so the city would need to build the arena.

So no Samueli is not going to start losing money/profits just to add an NBA team to the arena. What the Maloofs and Samueli are negotiating is how much each get from the Kings games at the Honda center from the consessions, parking, etc.

 

[Section 101]

People missed or dismissed the part of one of my notes where I stated I thought the rush to move now is caused by the fear that if the Maloofs really spend the money they promised to spend this summer and get a starter out of the draft, all very likely to occur, the team will get markedly better and so will the attendnace, They won't be able to justify a move as they ae a success here with a loyal fan base. They will be stuck in Sacramento.

They are afraid the team will seemingly become a success in Sacramento.

I say seemingly because in the past, when the team was a success on the floor, the team salary sky rocketed and they still lost money or didn't make much money. Medium sized or small market teams don't have a chance financially or at least the Kings don't have a chance as demonstrated by the past with the Maloofs as the owners. They know this as well as anyone.

Conclusion: the Kings cannot make money if their team sucks and they cannot make money if the team is a success.

The new CBA MUST address this state of reality

They lost money because they chose to over pay C-Webb and Bibby and go over the lux tax. Oh, the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics all loose money every year too. I don't see the Maloofs going to back to being one of the top highest salaried teams in the new CBA. It was reported that the Kings were one of 5 teams to make money last year. The $9.5 million lose reported by Forbes was false.

Oh, one other thing. Will it be better in the new CBA to be a smaller market team getting help from the league or a larger market team that now is helping support the smaller markets?

 

[ParniValjak]

People missed or dismissed the part of one of my notes where I stated I thought the rush to move now is caused by the fear that if the Maloofs really spend the money they promised to spend this summer and get a starter out of the draft, all very likely to occur, the team will get markedly better and so will the attendnace, They won't be able to justify a move as they ae a success here with a loyal fan base. They will be stuck in Sacramento.

They are afraid the team will seemingly become a success in Sacramento.

I say seemingly because in the past, when the team was a success on the floor, the team salary sky rocketed and they still lost money or didn't make much money. Medium sized or small market teams don't have a chance financially or at least the Kings don't have a chance as demonstrated by the past with the Maloofs as the owners. They know this as well as anyone.

Conclusion: the Kings cannot make money if their team sucks and they cannot make money if the team is a success.

The new CBA MUST address this state of reality

Thats all well and good BUT you are missing one main reason for the relocation, and that that there is no adequate Arena in Sacramento that will ensure that the team can stay financially viable!

The new CBA will address the gap between small markets and large markets BUT there is still that white elephant in the room that is the core of this talk and thats that there is no Arena that will ensure that Kings will remain financially competative.

They could stay in Sacramento, the new CBA will help out the small market teams more, the kings will improve and we could again be getting sell outs BUT unless there is a new Arena to play in, none of those things matter. Thats the bottom line here.

 

[Glenn]

They lost money because they chose to over pay C-Webb and Bibby and go over the lux tax. Oh, the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics all loose money every year too. I don't see the Maloofs going to back to being one of the top highest salaried teams in the new CBA. It was reported that the Kings were one of 5 teams to make money last year. The $9.5 million lose reported by Forbes was false.

Oh, one other thing. Will it be better in the new CBA to be a smaller market team getting help from the league or a larger market team that now is helping support the smaller markets?

I don't think you are getting the point.

You can move if you can justify to the league a lack of fan support. The league will be far less likely to allow a team to move if there is a lot of fan support. In neither case do the Kings make much of a profit if any.

 

[Section 101]

I don't think you are getting the point.

You can move if you can justify to the league a lack of fan support. The league will be far less likely to allow a team to move if there is a lot of fan support. In neither case do the Kings make much of a profit if any.

Oh I get that. But did you get that the teams that win normal have to spend and dont make profits either? 8)

 

[Glenn]

Oh I get that. But did you get that the teams that win normal have to spend and dont make profits either? 8)

So you are saying that large market teams have the same income as medium and small market teams.

 

[JB_kings]

You totally miss how it works.

MSE would be the management team running the Arena here. Just like Samueli is the management team that runs the Honda Center. The city of Anaheim owns the Arena. The city of sacramento would own the arena here. The management team pays to lease the arena just like any other business leases office space. In the past, deals were being made where the Maloofs would own the Arena. Those plans are all gone now. They would just run the arena so the city would need to build the arena.

So no Samueli is not going to start losing money/profits just to add an NBA team to the arena. What the Maloofs and Samueli are negotiating is how much each get from the Kings games at the Honda center from the consessions, parking, etc.

Yes this is the reality of running a city owned arena. Samueli gets to decide who plays when, who gets what... etc. So if he wants to book his NHL team on every premium date and time and let the Kings take what's left over, he can do that. If he wants to do a two week rodeo, the Kings hit the road for several weeks. If he wants to get a cut of suites, luxury boxes, parking and all of concessions, he can take them. He can say what food they sell and what kind of flat screens go in the suites. The Maloofs who currently control everything at Arco, go to no control at all. They give up that for a chance to make a killing in the media end. Which is certainly possible there, but what happens if the CBA decides that revenue sharing of media contracts is to be implemented. Again, we are talking about risk involved in leaping the fence before anyone knows what color is the grass on the other side. Samueli is their buddy right now, but he isn't once they ink a deal.

 

[ParniValjak]

Yes this is the reality of running a city owned arena. Samueli gets to decide who plays when, who gets what... etc. So if he wants to book his NHL team on every premium date and time and let the Kings take what's left over, he can do that. If he wants to do a two week rodeo, the Kings hit the road for several weeks. If he wants to get a cut of suites, luxury boxes, parking and all of concessions, he can take them. He can say what food they sell and what kind of flat screens go in the suites. The Maloofs who currently control everything at Arco, go to no control at all. They give up that for a chance to make a killing in the media end. Which is certainly possible there, but what happens if the CBA decides that revenue sharing of media contracts is to be implemented. Again, we are talking about risk involved in leaping the fence before anyone knows what color is the grass on the other side. Samueli is their buddy right now, but he isn't once they ink a deal.

But you are assuming that you know the details of the negotiations and fact is none of us do!

However, I can guarantee that all the things that you have raised in your post are the things that would be or are getting discussed and incorporated into the deal. Do you honestly think that Maloofs would move under any circumstance and do you honestly believe that in order for Samueli and Anaheim to attract the Kings that there would not be a fair bit of give and take on those exact points.

So the point is that Samueli CANNOT book his NHL team in for all the prime spots and give the Kings the left overs because I am certain that all these things will be discussed and agreed upon before Kings commit to moving.

Some of you think that moving the team from one city to another is as simple as:

Samueli: Hey Maloofs, how about you move your team to Anaheim and be my tenants at the Hinda Center?

Maloofs: Sure! Why Not!

Its not that simple, hence the request for extension to file for relocation because all of those thing are the things that have to be negotiated and agreed to before any move takes place. If Samueli and Anaheim are as keen to get the Kings as they are reported to be, I can guarantee you that they would not be ruling with the Iron fist as you guys are suggesting. Maloofs would have some input in all the things that you are claiming will be controlled by Samueli and Samueli only.

Simply NOT true because don't forget, events will be scheduled depending on how profitable things are. If the Kings are due to play the Lakers and Ducks are sheduled to play some dud team on the same day, I can guarantee you that Samueli himself would schedule Lakers Vs Kings for prime time spot because thats the game that will bring him in most money overall.

 

[Trueblood]

Ive been to both arenas and I can say that the HP center is better only because its not as old but the HONDA center for being 20 years old looks like it's new everywhere you go in the building. The location is perfect, right near Disney, Angels stadium, you have Long Beach, Seal Beach and many other surrounding cities and the team can get the Irvine and possibly the San Diego market. I'm not for the move but it is a nice stadium. Personally if I moved a team anywhere in California it would be to San Diego but the Arena there is a **** hole. I think that's a city that could build them an Arena, great downtown and fantastic city. So in the end, SACRAMENTO is the place to stay.

Actually, both arenas opened at the same time. It was the summer of 1993. '93-'94 was the inaugural year for the Ducks and year 3 of the Sharks as they played their first 2 seasons at the Cow Palace.

But you're right about the Honda Center and how it looks. I went to a Ducks game a couple months ago and the arena looks just like it did when it opened as they do a great job of maintaining it.

As for which arena is better, I have to go with Honda Center due to having their suites at mid level. HP has the majority of it's suites at the top of the arena in the form of Sky boxes. OTOH, the downtown location for HP is better than what Honda has out on the Anaheim/City of Orange border.

 

[Trueblood]

They lost money because they chose to over pay C-Webb and Bibby and go over the lux tax. Oh, the Lakers, Knicks, Celtics all loose money every year too. I don't see the Maloofs going to back to being one of the top highest salaried teams in the new CBA. It was reported that the Kings were one of 5 teams to make money last year. The $9.5 million lose reported by Forbes was false.

Oh, one other thing. Will it be better in the new CBA to be a smaller market team getting help from the league or a larger market team that now is helping support the smaller markets?

The Lakers and Knicks made huge profit last year. The Lakers regularly profit over $40 million and I wouldn't believe that only 5 teams make money. Even the owner's biggest allie, Forbes, reported that 12 teams profited and that probably means that over half of them made money. You have to consider the owner's agenda with the new cba talks ongoing. They want things to look as bad as possible.

 

[Geoff]

I don't think you are getting the point.

You can move if you can justify to the league a lack of fan support. The league will be far less likely to allow a team to move if there is a lot of fan support. In neither case do the Kings make much of a profit if any.

Lack of fan support is not a factor in this current issue, and has never been a factor in this current issue. The factor in this current issue is the inadequacy of Arco, and the NBA will be more than happy to allow the Kings to move based on that particular issue. If you try to introduce any other factor into the moving argument at this stage, you do yourself an injustice...

 

[Glenn]

Lack of fan support is not a factor in this current issue, and has never been a factor in this current issue. The factor in this current issue is the inadequacy of Arco, and the NBA will be more than happy to allow the Kings to move based on that particular issue. If you try to introduce any other factor into the moving argument at this stage, you do yourself an injustice...

Really? So we should build an arena. Didn't know that.

 

[kennadog]

Lack of fan support is not a factor in this current issue, and has never been a factor in this current issue. The factor in this current issue is the inadequacy of Arco, and the NBA will be more than happy to allow the Kings to move based on that particular issue. If you try to introduce any other factor into the moving argument at this stage, you do yourself an injustice...

Sorry, but it is an issue. The arena is certainly the big glaring problem, but attendance has been terrible, the worst in the league for a couple of years now. The combination of the two issues is likely to be fatal.