Kings May File for Relocation Before Deadline
- Thread starter Mike0476
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First, the Maloofs may ask for an extension, simply to see if they can actually come to an acceptable agreement with Samueli. Negotiations are ongoing, apparently almost hourly. On the news tonight, they did say the Maloofs were offered a $100 million loan several weeks ago, but turned that down. I think they are too afraid to risk losing majority interest in the team. They only own 51% of the Kings right now.
Also, the Honda Center has a much bigger footprint than Arco. I think they said 650,000 sq ft to the 450,000 at Arco. That's a huge difference in total size. Although only 5 years newer than Arco, the Honda Center cost something like 3+ times what Arco was built for and has had some millions of dollars in upgrades done since it was built.
Since ownership has been trying to get a new arena here for 14 years (since before the Maloofs bought an interest) one could hardly say its a precipitous decision by the Maloofs. Anybody who thinks they have not been considering many options for the franchise for a while now is in denial.
We've known for years a new arena was needed. We've known since all the city engineering and consultant reports came out (several years ago), that Arco couldn't not be suitably renovated or remodeled. The Taylor/ICON group (and the other three developers) all have agreed any arena proposal is going to take about $200 million in public funding of some kind. That may be more than half the cost. Its really a long shot and how long do the Maloofs want to hang around with dismal attendance, while betting on the long shot as likely to be a winner (again)?
I hope we have one more year, but anybody that wants the Kings to stay is going to have to stand up and be counted. They have to do whatever they can to support the team and let the Maloofs know we want the team here in Sacramento and to let the city council know we want a new arena for all the events it brings to Sacramento and the region.
Also, the Honda Center has a much bigger footprint than Arco. I think they said 650,000 sq ft to the 450,000 at Arco. That's a huge difference in total size. Although only 5 years newer than Arco, the Honda Center cost something like 3+ times what Arco was built for and has had some millions of dollars in upgrades done since it was built.
Since ownership has been trying to get a new arena here for 14 years (since before the Maloofs bought an interest) one could hardly say its a precipitous decision by the Maloofs. Anybody who thinks they have not been considering many options for the franchise for a while now is in denial.
We've known for years a new arena was needed. We've known since all the city engineering and consultant reports came out (several years ago), that Arco couldn't not be suitably renovated or remodeled. The Taylor/ICON group (and the other three developers) all have agreed any arena proposal is going to take about $200 million in public funding of some kind. That may be more than half the cost. Its really a long shot and how long do the Maloofs want to hang around with dismal attendance, while betting on the long shot as likely to be a winner (again)?
I hope we have one more year, but anybody that wants the Kings to stay is going to have to stand up and be counted. They have to do whatever they can to support the team and let the Maloofs know we want the team here in Sacramento and to let the city council know we want a new arena for all the events it brings to Sacramento and the region.
I took a moment out of life to try to be rational. I tried to think like the Maloofs and the ownership in general. First off I had forgotten that the ownership is more than the Maloofs and didn't someone say that they had a 51% ownership? That probably means that 49% (or pick a number) of the investment comes from local money. I would suspect that the local owners would want to be bought out if possible if the team moves to Amaheim. I don't have a clue as to the real deal but the Maloofs may be the general partners and get to control everything but they have to consider the local owners. I doubt if the local owners want to benefit Anaheim. That can be solved by picking up owners in the Anaheim area. Is it easy? I don't know and in the present economy, perhaps not as easy as 10 years ago.
Fans: are there more fans in Anaheim than Sacramento? Certainly a TV contract would be bigger. As to attendance, at first it will be higher and in the long run, who knows? I think some of the Anaheim excitement will die off as it has here. I don't see a big guarantee that fans will be better in Anaheim and if I were to move, I'd like to have as close to a guarantee as possible. Do NOT underestimate the loyalty to the Lakers. They have earned it. They've been there since 1957 and have been winners.
Honda Center. The footprint is bigger and that's important. Honda Center can be renovated and Arco or whatever it is called, cannot. In any case, renovation isn't cheap either. I understand (not sure where I read this) that renovation of Target Center in Minneapolis would be $140 mil. So the arena isn't free in any way. I believe Honda has been renovated once. It does share a heavy duty tenant. That's a plus but it is not perfect.
Moving fees. Expensive. NBA takes a portion and there are other fees. I am guessing in the range of $30 mil but that's a guess. There is a pre-payment penalty to pay off Arco.
NBA teams have to vote for it with a simple majority. There will probably be two votes against it but I suspect the overall ownership will OK it. Teams have been moving a lot recently. The questuion for the league is whether or not a region can support three teams. It's never been tried.
There are a lot of intangibles that perhaps can be tangible (have a money value) but I don't know what it is. There is a fan base here ready to go to Arco if the team wins and by all accounts the team will win. That doesn't solve the arena problem. Still need an arena. I'd like to see my home boy Prince without the drive.
How do the Maloofs feel? They have donated $17 mil to the area and have been crapped on. I think on the whole they don't want to leave but business is business and they can't be happy with the way the city has treated them. Last night during the game I asked if any one noticed who owned the arena Magic plays in. Slim noticed. The City of Orlando owns the arena and gets signage fees, parking etc. Just another example of how other cities react as compared to Sacramento.
Sacramento will not change. I have been here 35 years and the attitude has been consistent. This area has a small town attitude and does not or cannot see the bigger picture or doesn't care. It just "is" and for the area, that is not a positive or a negative. For the Kings, it is a negative. We will drive to the Bay Area for entertainment and don't mind if major acts by pass us even if the acts bring money to the area. Oakland gets Prince, we get MMA and at that, lower weight classes. (I love Prince)
The ultimate question for the league and the Kings is: do the Kings come out ahead by going to Anaheim? I don't know. At first, "probably" or "yes." In the long run, maybe not. Excitement dies and I doubt if people in Anaheim will have the same initial blast of excitement as there was in Sacramento.
Lots of "maybes" when you are considering a multi-million dollar decision and don't have money to burn.
I want the Maloofs to do what is best for the Maloofs. They don't have to do anything more to gain my respect. I've already mentioned the money they have donated to the area. Also, they brought the only winner to the area in the entire history of the Kings.
If I were them, I'd wait a year or maybe two depending on the negotiations for the CBA. I'd spend money on players, I'd see what ICON/Taylor have to say, and I'd wait to see how the fans react if or when we become an NBA power. I don't just mean in attendance but in the form of money. The arena in Orlando was financed by bonds which has proven to be almost a failure as the bonds are considered "junk bonds" now. I don't know what a "junk bond" is but it can't be good for the city of Orlando.
In the end, no arena, no Kings. Is it worth a year to see what ICON/Taylor comes up with? I would think so except I know what they will come up with. They will say an arena can be built with $100 mil or so coming from other sources. That means in the form of taxes. Taxes on what? I don't know and if there is another vote, it has to be sold to the people MUCH better than it was before. It has to be sold in a way that the people understand this is more than a bailout to a bunch of billionaires (which they aren't). The word "bailout" will be used against the measure and that's a powerfully pejorative word. The benifits have to be spelled out milllion by million.
Fans: are there more fans in Anaheim than Sacramento? Certainly a TV contract would be bigger. As to attendance, at first it will be higher and in the long run, who knows? I think some of the Anaheim excitement will die off as it has here. I don't see a big guarantee that fans will be better in Anaheim and if I were to move, I'd like to have as close to a guarantee as possible. Do NOT underestimate the loyalty to the Lakers. They have earned it. They've been there since 1957 and have been winners.
Honda Center. The footprint is bigger and that's important. Honda Center can be renovated and Arco or whatever it is called, cannot. In any case, renovation isn't cheap either. I understand (not sure where I read this) that renovation of Target Center in Minneapolis would be $140 mil. So the arena isn't free in any way. I believe Honda has been renovated once. It does share a heavy duty tenant. That's a plus but it is not perfect.
Moving fees. Expensive. NBA takes a portion and there are other fees. I am guessing in the range of $30 mil but that's a guess. There is a pre-payment penalty to pay off Arco.
NBA teams have to vote for it with a simple majority. There will probably be two votes against it but I suspect the overall ownership will OK it. Teams have been moving a lot recently. The questuion for the league is whether or not a region can support three teams. It's never been tried.
There are a lot of intangibles that perhaps can be tangible (have a money value) but I don't know what it is. There is a fan base here ready to go to Arco if the team wins and by all accounts the team will win. That doesn't solve the arena problem. Still need an arena. I'd like to see my home boy Prince without the drive.
How do the Maloofs feel? They have donated $17 mil to the area and have been crapped on. I think on the whole they don't want to leave but business is business and they can't be happy with the way the city has treated them. Last night during the game I asked if any one noticed who owned the arena Magic plays in. Slim noticed. The City of Orlando owns the arena and gets signage fees, parking etc. Just another example of how other cities react as compared to Sacramento.
Sacramento will not change. I have been here 35 years and the attitude has been consistent. This area has a small town attitude and does not or cannot see the bigger picture or doesn't care. It just "is" and for the area, that is not a positive or a negative. For the Kings, it is a negative. We will drive to the Bay Area for entertainment and don't mind if major acts by pass us even if the acts bring money to the area. Oakland gets Prince, we get MMA and at that, lower weight classes. (I love Prince)
The ultimate question for the league and the Kings is: do the Kings come out ahead by going to Anaheim? I don't know. At first, "probably" or "yes." In the long run, maybe not. Excitement dies and I doubt if people in Anaheim will have the same initial blast of excitement as there was in Sacramento.
Lots of "maybes" when you are considering a multi-million dollar decision and don't have money to burn.
I want the Maloofs to do what is best for the Maloofs. They don't have to do anything more to gain my respect. I've already mentioned the money they have donated to the area. Also, they brought the only winner to the area in the entire history of the Kings.
If I were them, I'd wait a year or maybe two depending on the negotiations for the CBA. I'd spend money on players, I'd see what ICON/Taylor have to say, and I'd wait to see how the fans react if or when we become an NBA power. I don't just mean in attendance but in the form of money. The arena in Orlando was financed by bonds which has proven to be almost a failure as the bonds are considered "junk bonds" now. I don't know what a "junk bond" is but it can't be good for the city of Orlando.
In the end, no arena, no Kings. Is it worth a year to see what ICON/Taylor comes up with? I would think so except I know what they will come up with. They will say an arena can be built with $100 mil or so coming from other sources. That means in the form of taxes. Taxes on what? I don't know and if there is another vote, it has to be sold to the people MUCH better than it was before. It has to be sold in a way that the people understand this is more than a bailout to a bunch of billionaires (which they aren't). The word "bailout" will be used against the measure and that's a powerfully pejorative word. The benifits have to be spelled out milllion by million.
The mayor has already said that there's no chance of raising local taxes for this since he's "looking out for the taxpayers." But he's not explicitly said that other revenue generating mechanisms like various user fees, say a hotel tax (meaning primarily falling on outsiders) is not a way to help with the financing. If the council wants a deal it can happen, if they procrastinate like they've done for a decade, it surely won't.
Glen, it's a lot to consider for sure if I were them. It almost comes down to an "eye of the beholder" towards the OC market. The payoff of the city loan is $67 million plus a $9 million early payoff fee/penalty. So that is a major chunk of change. Then the relocation fees are thought to be somewhere in the mid $30 million range. The Lakers are not happy with this potential move and are starting to make a stink. They should do that too because no matter how arrogant they seem, they know that OC is their market and don't want anything to erode that. No small share of that $30 million will make them happy.
And now we hear that the Maloofs refused the offer of the loan and the move is on their dime. Smart move because it looks like Samueli was going after their team. So cold facts suggest it will cost them nearly $110 million out of pocket to move. That is serious coin. So for those of us that might want to believe that the Maloofs are postioning the city of Sacarmento to put out their best on a new arena and get a sweet deal, this is what you can hang your hat on.
And just my opinion here, I would do that to Sacramento too. Because they never took any of theis seriously and quite frankly acted like it wasn't their problem. The city isn't the innocent party here. They have wasted so much damn time when they should have done something 10 years ago when it would have cost much less to deal with this problem.
And now we hear that the Maloofs refused the offer of the loan and the move is on their dime. Smart move because it looks like Samueli was going after their team. So cold facts suggest it will cost them nearly $110 million out of pocket to move. That is serious coin. So for those of us that might want to believe that the Maloofs are postioning the city of Sacarmento to put out their best on a new arena and get a sweet deal, this is what you can hang your hat on.
And just my opinion here, I would do that to Sacramento too. Because they never took any of theis seriously and quite frankly acted like it wasn't their problem. The city isn't the innocent party here. They have wasted so much damn time when they should have done something 10 years ago when it would have cost much less to deal with this problem.
Absolutely! That's why the majority of the city council are IDIOTS - they don't understand economics 101. Probably had Marxist professors in college since few of them if any have ever run a real business or met a payroll. Actually, I had a few Marxist professors in college but when I got out into private biz and everyday survival I quickly saw the real world not some "utopian dream."
FYI on the minority owners. They are limited partnership and contain no voting rights. They are like this so that guys like Samueli can't buy up these limited partners and stage a team take over. It's largely just an investment that only pays off if they sell to another investor that is looking for a no-say in the stakes investment.
The minority owners of the team have no say, period. They only control 49%, collectively and the Maloofs would just out vote them. They would have an option to sell their interest, I would presume, although there might be some restrictions or requirements for a buyer.
The Honda Center cost $123 million to build only five years after Arco was built for a paltry $40 million. Also, the Honda Center was renovated a few years back for an additional $12 million or so. I'll put up some info later, as its on my home computer. The Honda Center has far more suites and club seats.
By the way, The Honda Center is owned by the City of Anaheim. It is managed by Samueli's limited liability management company.
Orange County has about 5 million residents, while Yolo, Placer, El Dorado and Sacramento Counties have about 3 million residents. Average income in Orange County is quite a bit higher in Sacramento and they have a corporate presence that Sacramento just doesn't have. The Gold Coast part of Orange County is a very high income area.
The Honda Center cost $123 million to build only five years after Arco was built for a paltry $40 million. Also, the Honda Center was renovated a few years back for an additional $12 million or so. I'll put up some info later, as its on my home computer. The Honda Center has far more suites and club seats.
By the way, The Honda Center is owned by the City of Anaheim. It is managed by Samueli's limited liability management company.
Orange County has about 5 million residents, while Yolo, Placer, El Dorado and Sacramento Counties have about 3 million residents. Average income in Orange County is quite a bit higher in Sacramento and they have a corporate presence that Sacramento just doesn't have. The Gold Coast part of Orange County is a very high income area.
It's all about the numbers at this point. The amount the city needs to put in over the land, fees, and hotel tax. Everybody knows nothing will happen without the city putting in some money. If you think otherwise, you are kidding yourself.
A general tax isn't going to happen. So this lives and dies on, how much can the city afford to squeeze out of a already tight/busted general fund.
At 100 million or so, it probably gets close to offsetting some of the money that would go away if they leave and will perk up downtown and keep the Kings here. Might happen.
At 200 or more, I cannot see how the city budget takes that on. Sac is just too broke.
They aren't stupid. This a council that loves to build stuff downtown and is itching to get things moving in the rail yard. But the numbers are the numbers. A lot of people here take the stand of --- whatever it takes just do it. It's not stupid to say, yes ... but at some number no.
They city will lose money if the Kings leave. But at some number, they will lose more money if they pay to keep them here. Thus, you can't just say --- don't they get that the Kings make the city money. For example, KJ thows out the number that Sacramento lost when the NCAA said no. But if the arena is a 100 million net loss for the city budget, you don't make that back over 30 years. And if you are too broke to take 100 million net loss, the math doesn't even matter because it can't happen in the first place.
To put it another way, if you have a huge ballon payment on your mortgage and you can't pay it. It will cost you a ton of money to let the place go and you might never get another house, but if you can't afford to keep the place ... well, it's not really a decision.
That's why Taylor's study is huge. He's going to hand the city a estimate / proposed bill. If the number is too high, there is no shot this goes anywhere.
Everybody wants to kill the city (who hasn't done a great job) but the same leaders in San Diego and SF aren't dumb ... and they can't get a deal done either. And that was before 08, which changed everything.
A general tax isn't going to happen. So this lives and dies on, how much can the city afford to squeeze out of a already tight/busted general fund.
At 100 million or so, it probably gets close to offsetting some of the money that would go away if they leave and will perk up downtown and keep the Kings here. Might happen.
At 200 or more, I cannot see how the city budget takes that on. Sac is just too broke.
They aren't stupid. This a council that loves to build stuff downtown and is itching to get things moving in the rail yard. But the numbers are the numbers. A lot of people here take the stand of --- whatever it takes just do it. It's not stupid to say, yes ... but at some number no.
They city will lose money if the Kings leave. But at some number, they will lose more money if they pay to keep them here. Thus, you can't just say --- don't they get that the Kings make the city money. For example, KJ thows out the number that Sacramento lost when the NCAA said no. But if the arena is a 100 million net loss for the city budget, you don't make that back over 30 years. And if you are too broke to take 100 million net loss, the math doesn't even matter because it can't happen in the first place.
To put it another way, if you have a huge ballon payment on your mortgage and you can't pay it. It will cost you a ton of money to let the place go and you might never get another house, but if you can't afford to keep the place ... well, it's not really a decision.
That's why Taylor's study is huge. He's going to hand the city a estimate / proposed bill. If the number is too high, there is no shot this goes anywhere.
Everybody wants to kill the city (who hasn't done a great job) but the same leaders in San Diego and SF aren't dumb ... and they can't get a deal done either. And that was before 08, which changed everything.
Actually most of the LA media currently are still in the mock the Kings mode and wants to make fun of them. They were actually all surprised by how many people would actually support them.
The local sports station AM570 also spent an hour talking about the issue and many callers called from cities such as Newport Beach and said they definitely want it to happen. Non locals to the OC and LA area doesn't understand that in order to get from a city like Newport Beach to the Staples center on a weekday after work by tip off time is next to impossible for most people. It literally takes 2hrs, sometimes more in traffic.
This is a little off the path but how much is it worth to wake up in the morning looking forward to watching a Kings game. How much is it worth for the good feeling a person gets from writing on KingsFans.com? Is quality of life important or is it good enough to have the joy of feeding your horses or milking the cows. (I didn't say that last part, did I?)
How many companies will NOT move here because they CAN'T offer their employees tickets to a game? Who knows? I think if the Kings leave and an arena is not built, we will slowly find out the answers over decades, not months or years.
(I didn't say that last part, did I?)How many companies will NOT move here because they CAN'T offer their employees tickets to a game? Who knows? I think if the Kings leave and an arena is not built, we will slowly find out the answers over decades, not months or years.
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Hard to say, but if Stern promised us a few all star games it would bring in huge numbers to help offset the cost.
Plus, right now Arco is currently not bringing in other potential moneys because of its condition. So a new arena could bring in bigger shows at higher ticket prices.
The other issue also is where do those entertainment dollars go if not the Arena? Bay Area? LA? Out of state? Personally, mine will go to Yankees and Dallas Cowboys games. So it's other states/cities getting my money.
Plus, right now Arco is currently not bringing in other potential moneys because of its condition. So a new arena could bring in bigger shows at higher ticket prices.
The other issue also is where do those entertainment dollars go if not the Arena? Bay Area? LA? Out of state? Personally, mine will go to Yankees and Dallas Cowboys games. So it's other states/cities getting my money.
This is a little off the path but how much is it worth to wake up in the morning looking forward to watching a Kings game. How much is it worth for the good feeling a person gets from writing on KingsFans.com? Is quality of life important or is it good enough to have the joy of feeding your horses or milking the cows. (I didn't say that last part, did I?)
How many companies will move here because they can offer their employees tickets to a game? Who knows? I think if the Kings leave and an arena is not built, we will slowly find out the answers over decades, not months or years.
(I didn't say that last part, did I?)How many companies will move here because they can offer their employees tickets to a game? Who knows? I think if the Kings leave and an arena is not built, we will slowly find out the answers over decades, not months or years.
If Sacramento really wants to play hardball with Anaheim we could get the politicians and lobbiests against the move. They could then use political pressure to block Anaheim/orange county in the legislature.
Not quite correct. If the city raises hotel, rental car, food and beverage taxes specifically for this project, then nothing comes out of the general fund. Also, if they say sold bonds for this specific purpose, that doesn't come out of the general fund, either. Also, if the can leverage state or federal funds or commit redevelopment money (only in a designated redevelopment area, like the rail yards), none of that comes out of the general fund.
One of the things that amuses me about the naysayers is they clamor for the Maloofs to pay back their loan to the city. They don't seem to understand that the "city" never loaned their own money. They sold bonds to make the loan. All loan payments go to pay back the investors who purchased the bonds. That is why there is a pre-payment penalty. When you sell bonds, a certain interest rate is guaranteed to the investors. They are probably receiving a much better interest rate payment than they could get under any current similar investment (which is free of State and federal taxes, too.)
The city issues the bonds, because they have the legal authority to issue bonds that usually offer a better-than-market interest rate.
The city, however does gurantee the investors will get all their principal and interest promised. So there is a risk to the city if the borrower defaults, which the Maloofs have not done and they are actually ahead on their payments.
In truth, while the city guarantees the loan (sort of like an FHA guarantee on a home mortagage), the loan is actually private money.
Selling bonds is another way the city could finance part of the cost without necessarily touching general fund.
Taylor/ICON said the feasibility study would also include a "menu" of possible public options for how to raise the government contribution.
One of the things that amuses me about the naysayers is they clamor for the Maloofs to pay back their loan to the city. They don't seem to understand that the "city" never loaned their own money. They sold bonds to make the loan. All loan payments go to pay back the investors who purchased the bonds. That is why there is a pre-payment penalty. When you sell bonds, a certain interest rate is guaranteed to the investors. They are probably receiving a much better interest rate payment than they could get under any current similar investment (which is free of State and federal taxes, too.)
The city issues the bonds, because they have the legal authority to issue bonds that usually offer a better-than-market interest rate.
The city, however does gurantee the investors will get all their principal and interest promised. So there is a risk to the city if the borrower defaults, which the Maloofs have not done and they are actually ahead on their payments.
In truth, while the city guarantees the loan (sort of like an FHA guarantee on a home mortagage), the loan is actually private money.
Selling bonds is another way the city could finance part of the cost without necessarily touching general fund.
Taylor/ICON said the feasibility study would also include a "menu" of possible public options for how to raise the government contribution.
Even with an arena, the NBA won't give Sacramento an All-Star game until Sacramento has more first class hotel rooms. That's always the big problem with Sacramento. The city had to subsidize the Hyatt Regency heavily to get them to be the first top level hotel in Sacramento. Hyatt would never have built when it did, otherwise. They knew they'd lose money. So the City helped them build and covered operating losses for about ten years. Not sure how many years, but it was a lot.
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Yes and another "woof." The city didn't take money out of the mouths of starving children, police, fire department, etc. This wasn't money that could have been used elsewhere. Never, never, never.
Addendum: is this difficult to understand for the average citizen? I think it is and I think it is the responsibility of those who have an interest in the arena and the Kings to make this point and make it in a way that can be understood by the average person. A bond is purchased by someone who wants to buy the bond. It doesn't come out of the pocket of anyone else. The city is not bailing out rich folks.
Orlando's arena was built funded by a bond issue.
Addendum: is this difficult to understand for the average citizen? I think it is and I think it is the responsibility of those who have an interest in the arena and the Kings to make this point and make it in a way that can be understood by the average person. A bond is purchased by someone who wants to buy the bond. It doesn't come out of the pocket of anyone else. The city is not bailing out rich folks.
Orlando's arena was built funded by a bond issue.
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This is one theory. The other is that a lot of people here are broke. Top acts know it, and it gives them another reason to skip a city that often gets skipped. The Killers are a big act, who used to sell the place out. They had to slash prices to get the place 3/4 full. I doubt they are coming back. They will play Tahoe and SF instead.
When you know that: (1) a lot of people in a city can't afford to go; and (2) a lof of the people with money who want to go, will drive to see the show anyhow, you can skip the city because it doesn't cost you any money.
When Arco was in much better shape and this city was flush with housing bubble cash, a lot of big acts still skipped Sac. Unless things get a lot better here, the bump for a new arena won't be enough to get a lot of top acts.
Big acts aren't just saying away due to Arco. Many have never came here. A lot more know its hard to sell tickets in a mid-sized market that has money problems. A new arena will give us a bump, but doesn't fix a huge underlying problem.
When you know that: (1) a lot of people in a city can't afford to go; and (2) a lof of the people with money who want to go, will drive to see the show anyhow, you can skip the city because it doesn't cost you any money.
When Arco was in much better shape and this city was flush with housing bubble cash, a lot of big acts still skipped Sac. Unless things get a lot better here, the bump for a new arena won't be enough to get a lot of top acts.
Big acts aren't just saying away due to Arco. Many have never came here. A lot more know its hard to sell tickets in a mid-sized market that has money problems. A new arena will give us a bump, but doesn't fix a huge underlying problem.
Right, the city has a lot of ways to pay for this without tapping into the city's coffers and they've just chose not to do it for 10 years ... right.
They State and Feds are cutting off cash, not handing it out. Heck, redevelopment might go away all together. Most of the rental cars are at the county airport and beyond the city's control. They can raise some taxes to help offset a lower number.
And again, that's my point. Once this gets over 100 million the rubber hits the road. This cannot get done without the city reaching for it's wallet. They just can't put a nickle on a beer or $10 on a hotel room. Not enough volume in Sac.
Whether by bonds or the general fund, there is a number where they city has to pass on Taylor's offer. I'd say it's 150 million. That is what Fargo's board put on the table in 2004, when the Maloofs walked out. KJ wants it more, but the city is now broke.
They State and Feds are cutting off cash, not handing it out. Heck, redevelopment might go away all together. Most of the rental cars are at the county airport and beyond the city's control. They can raise some taxes to help offset a lower number.
And again, that's my point. Once this gets over 100 million the rubber hits the road. This cannot get done without the city reaching for it's wallet. They just can't put a nickle on a beer or $10 on a hotel room. Not enough volume in Sac.
Whether by bonds or the general fund, there is a number where they city has to pass on Taylor's offer. I'd say it's 150 million. That is what Fargo's board put on the table in 2004, when the Maloofs walked out. KJ wants it more, but the city is now broke.
Sorry Larry, but it's been thinking like yours that made Sacramento into the type of place that it is today. I call them the do-nothings. They just never do anything but complain and shoot down things. They never build anything or invest in the future. You always are part of the problem and never part of a solution.
The bright rosey future isn't just going to walk into the city and lay it on your lap. You have to build it. This takes doing something besides taking pot shots at people who do want something.
The bright rosey future isn't just going to walk into the city and lay it on your lap. You have to build it. This takes doing something besides taking pot shots at people who do want something.
And it's thinking like yours that made Sacramento broke.
They city spent like drunken sailors for a decade. During that time, they should have got an arena done. Like the Maloofs, they looked for the best deal ... not just to make a deal. Now we're too broke to make any deal.
It's not pot shots. It's logic, math, and a sound fiscal policy. If you don't like my stuff, you can skip it.
They city spent like drunken sailors for a decade. During that time, they should have got an arena done. Like the Maloofs, they looked for the best deal ... not just to make a deal. Now we're too broke to make any deal.
It's not pot shots. It's logic, math, and a sound fiscal policy. If you don't like my stuff, you can skip it.
There comes a time in all these things when the number crunchers have to step aside. There comes a point when the big picture is more than the sum of its parts, and you need someone with vision to come along and make an inspired choice that you can't reach in a plodding 1+1 sort of way. That time is now or never in Sacramento. The numbers are what they are, and what they have been. Its almost unimportant, or at least no longer determinative. They are the background. Good to know, but no longer the story. Either somebody rises up and makes this happen now, or it doe snot happen. And whoever rises up isn't going to be doing it with a calculator in his or her hand. This is a human calculation now, not a purely mathematical one. At some point in any of these things you have to sigh and put the calculator aside and say to everybody "ok, so are we going to do this or not?" And whatever the answer is, its not just numbers.
I agree with you are saying Brick, but that logic fails at some point.
If Taylor can get the city's share down to 150 or so, this might happen for all of the reasons you said. It won't pencil, but you do it for the human calculation. And that would be awesome.
But at some point - with the city being broke - the number will be prohibative. Not just politically impossible. But prohibative for the city. And at that point, its only the number that matters.
That's my point.
This all comes down to Taylor's number. The good news is we have the time to see what he has to say.
If Taylor can get the city's share down to 150 or so, this might happen for all of the reasons you said. It won't pencil, but you do it for the human calculation. And that would be awesome.
But at some point - with the city being broke - the number will be prohibative. Not just politically impossible. But prohibative for the city. And at that point, its only the number that matters.
That's my point.
This all comes down to Taylor's number. The good news is we have the time to see what he has to say.
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