Reke vs Boogie - Control of the Team is Brewing

[ParniValjak]

A good play is one that goes in the basket. A good look is what the losing team says. The whole play was terrible from the start. Evans is the last one on the court you want to take a 3. He should have drove to the free throw line and pulled up or passed to Cuz if collison clogged the lane. They would expect him to drive all the way. Cousins should have been on the block to start and Omri in the corner.

Oh, and what could have been a big mistake was Westfail taking a time out between FT's. Yes Durant missed the 2nd, but it also left them out of timeouts if they couldnt get the ball in.

You actually make it sound like there is an eternity and Tyreke could have done this and he should have done that. Fact is there was not a lot of time on the clock and Tyreke did absolutely the right thing for once in clutch this season.

He took the shot with enough time on the clock so if he made it, we had the lead and he missed there was enough time on the clock for a tip in attempt!!! He missed the 3 but we had enough time to attempt a tip in once he missed the shot...Its just that Omri missed the tip in as well.

Its a game of inches! If the shot goes in, none of the ****s happens and Tyreke and the kings end up on the sportcentre. This way we still end up on sportscentre for all the wrong reasons and the debate of whether it was the right play continues until the next time!

 

[Glenn]

Wait a minute, time out on the field... What do you mean "we all well know" that Evans isn't passionate? I know no such thing... are you possibly conflating passionate and emotive? It seems like an awful reach to assume that Evans doesn't care/is not passionate just because he doesn't jump up and down like a jackass everytime he turns the ball over or gets fouled. Would you say that Tim Duncan lacks passion? How about Kevin Durant? Neither of them seem to be particularly outwardly emotive, but I don't know if anyone would refer to them as lacking in passion.

We all don't really know anything about Cuz and Reke except what we see on the court and in interviews. We fill in the blanks with conjecture. I'm totally with Slim on this one. Most of what has been written in this thread is speculation.

As to fan interest, I wouldn't make any sweeping statements about what the fans think, either. I don't care what style of ball they play if they win. Winning DOES cure all ills. The opposite is true also: I don't enjoy watching the Kings no matter how exciting or well oiled they are if they lose all the time. I sure wouldn't pay to see the team that is there now and has been there for several years. I won't watch a team lose over and over and over. I might see things on the court that I don't like but the reaon I don't go is because they lose. I doubt very much if I am all that unusual as the place will fill up if the team wins.

 

[Sac.1989]

exactly, i really feel this is been blown up. No one is trying to take control of this team. Demarcus needs to show some maturity in these losses and stop thinking everyone is out to get him

 

[Gary]

Give me Cousins and a prime Mitch Richmond any day of the week. I really hope Evans does work out with Cousins.. Seems a player needs to be 30 years old before they realize how to play teem ball nowadays.

 

[Bricklayer]

I am thinking I should change the title of this thread to something more accurate. Perhaps something snappy and catchy like "Sacramento Fans Are Idiots, Don't Know A Good Thing When They See One, And Love A Good Polarizing Debate".

Because that is really what we are talking about here. Not the formation of Reke and Cousins camps in the locker room, after all of 4 months together -- and btw there largely IS no Cousins camp in the locker room, and won't be until he grows up and gives guys a man to follow with confidence. No, what we are talking about here is formations of Reke and Cousins camps in the fanbase, or perhaps more particularly anti-Reke or anti-Cousins camps in the fanbase. Because nothing says Kings fan quite so much as venom and balkanization.

Of course I have been calling out the burgeoning antio-Reke folks almsot as soon as I saw that get going. Drafting a rookie supertar type player provides a rare opportunity to see that stuff start. And its not about the player really, its about fans being dumb. In Reke's case you get a nice base of resentment going becuase of the whole Ricky Rubio fetish, you get some extra pop from people with limited basketball acumen who really don't know basketball except from the Kings style in the golden era. And you throw in backlash from fading former fan fav Kevin martin being traded, and you've gto a full fledged group of haters. And just so so dumb. I've called them out from the beginning, because what I know, and they should have, is that they were scuttling their own fandom from the beginning. You get a foundational star who is going to be around for 20% of your adult life, and you let yourself fall into the trap of casting him as the villain, and you have fundamentally lessened your own enjoyment of your own team for a large chunk of your life. You start doing perverted things like rooting against them doing well if the villain is going to get the credit. In reveling in anything that makes the villain, who also happens to be the best guy on your team, look wrong, and your own silly little ego right. You sit on quotews or op eds hpoping to hear/find players or columnists who support your own venom. You might even start trolling your own team's messageboards, looking for any opportunity to cut down or lessen the villain's accomplishments in the eyes of fellow fans. And the venom that spills over lessens everybody else's enjoyment around you too. Cousins in some way came in with a cleaner slate. No Rubio fetish or Martin fetish to get the haterade going. Obviously he has done everything possible to develop his own brand of naysayers in his rookie season, but they too are being dumb. The kid is an immense talent, maybe even a bigger talent than Evans, and setting your feet into some sort of anti-Cousins stance is just preparing yourself for a long run of disappointment, punctuated by little moments of perverse "I told you so" ego strokers when he screws up.

But of course that isn't the key to a thread about dumb fans setting these guys up in oppposing camps. All that is important for such a thread is that one guy or the other guy be used as a weapon or a wedge against the other guy you don't like. Isn't even necessary for you to like the wedger particular. He's not "him". He's not he villain your sad little ego has built up. And so like I say, this isn't a thread about this team at all. Not yet at least. Its a thread about the fans of the team. And not a complimentary one. I actually beleive the OP when he talks about the venom in the stands, because you see echoes of it around here all the time.

 

[Sac.Kings]

Wait a minute, time out on the field... What do you mean "we all well know" that Evans isn't passionate? I know no such thing... are you possibly conflating passionate and emotive? It seems like an awful reach to assume that Evans doesn't care/is not passionate just because he doesn't jump up and down like a jackass everytime he turns the ball over or gets fouled. Would you say that Tim Duncan lacks passion? How about Kevin Durant? Neither of them seem to be particularly outwardly emotive, but I don't know if anyone would refer to them as lacking in passion.

Perhaps I should have said not as emotional, passionate was the wrong word to use.

 

[funkykingston]

My best friend's sister's boyfriend's brother's girlfriend heard from this guy who knows this kid who's going with the girl who saw Tyreke punch out Demarcus at 31 Flavors last night. I guess it's pretty serious.

Oh no!

I'm going to go paint Save DeMarcus on a water tower right now.

 

[Sarunas]

I say for the next west coast road game, stick the two of them in a car and make them drive together. Nothing a 5-10hr drive together cant solve.

 

[Bricklayer]

I say for the next west coast road game, stick the two of them in a car and make them drive together. Nothing a 5-10hr drive together cant solve.

If Reke is driving it might not take nearly that long.

 

[Agent23]

I am thinking I should change the title of this thread to something more accurate. Perhaps something snappy and catchy like "Sacramento Fans Are Idiots, Don't Know A Good Thing When They See One, And Love A Good Polarizing Debate".

Because that is really what we are talking about here. Not the formation of Reke and Cousins camps in the locker room, after all of 4 months together -- and btw there largely IS no Cousins camp in the locker room, and won't be until he grows up and gives guys a man to follow with confidence. No, what we are talking about here is formations of Reke and Cousins camps in the fanbase, or perhaps more particularly anti-Reke or anti-Cousins camps in the fanbase. Because nothing says Kings fan quite so much as venom and balkanization.

Of course I have been calling out the burgeoning antio-Reke folks almsot as soon as I saw that get going. Drafting a rookie supertar type player provides a rare opportunity to see that stuff start. And its not about the player really, its about fans being dumb. In Reke's case you get a nice base of resentment going becuase of the whole Ricky Rubio fetish, you get some extra pop from people with limited basketball acumen who really don't know basketball except from the Kings style in the golden era. And you throw in backlash from fading former fan fav Kevin martin being traded, and you've gto a full fledged group of haters. And just so so dumb. I've called them out from the beginning, because what I know, and they should have, is that they were scuttling their own fandom from the beginning. You get a foundational star who is going to be around for 20% of your adult life, and you let yourself fall into the trap of casting him as the villain, and you have fundamentally lessened your own enjoyment of your own team for a large chunk of your life. You start doing perverted things like rooting against them doing well if the villain is going to get the credit. In reveling in anything that makes the villain, who also happens to be the best guy on your team, look wrong, and your own silly little ego right. You sit on quotews or op eds hpoping to hear/find players or columnists who support your own venom. You might even start trolling your own team's messageboards, looking for any opportunity to cut down or lessen the villain's accomplishments in the eyes of fellow fans. And the venom that spills over lessens everybody else's enjoyment around you too. Cousins in some way came in with a cleaner slate. No Rubio fetish or Martin fetish to get the haterade going. Obviously he has done everything possible to develop his own brand of naysayers in his rookie season, but they too are being dumb. The kid is an immense talent, maybe even a bigger talent than Evans, and setting your feet into some sort of anti-Cousins stance is just preparing yourself for a long run of disappointment, punctuated by little moments of perverse "I told you so" ego strokers when he screws up.

But of course that isn't the key to a thread about dumb fans setting these guys up in oppposing camps. All that is important for such a thread is that one guy or the other guy be used as a weapon or a wedge against the other guy you don't like. Isn't even necessary for you to like the wedger particular. He's not "him". He's not he villain your sad little ego has built up. And so like I say, this isn't a thread about this team at all. Not yet at least. Its a thread about the fans of the team. And not a complimentary one. I actually beleive the OP when he talks about the venom in the stands, because you see echoes of it around here all the time.

Spot on. This is exactly what is going on and this is exactly what happened during the end of the "golden era" between Peja and CWebb. The dissension started with the fan base not the players themselves. Do fans even realize how good these kids are going to be (Tyreke and DMC)? They are so raw right now as players yet they dominate stretches of the game. Imagine them as finished products. Barring injury, they are going to be elite players in this league.

 

[Glenn]

I don't pay any attention to the sniping at Cuz and Reke. I see the big holes in their game and think "oh, my, wait until they have more experience and fill those holes" LIKE EVERY GREAT BASKETBALL PLAYER DOES. Those of you setting up this "war of the studs" scenario are missing a good show. Open up your eyes and minds and see what is going on.

We have two guys who can dominate at their position who are already accomplishing great things. They are piling up very, very good stats and pulling off athletic moves that some of us didn't think possible. And we criticize. My god, folks, enjoy it! I don't understand the people who think these children should be perfect.

"Balkanization" and "Kings fans" in the same thought: priceless.

Most fans know that young players get better. I hear the word "upside" so often that I want to puke. In any case, look at the upside of Reke and Cuz! There was a time when most of us would have been happy to have two guys who peaked as good as they are. We don't know what their peak is because of this thing called "upside." What is Reke going to be like when he fits in better? You can't tell me (you can try but I won't believe it) that he doesn't want to improve and be more of a team player. Why should he be any different than he is? His college coach said that he learned to just give Reke the ball and the team would score. He has been told for years to dominate the ball. Now he has to learn something different. He will.

Cuz has on-the-court problems also. He sometimes does things that are really stupid. How can he learn what he can do and can't do without trying and failing? He has to learn his limits at this level. He already has come from a guy who couldn't last 20 minutes to a guy who can give you 32 minutes.

As to the so called troubles on the floor between the two, I guess what I see is two great athletes occasionally hooking up to do things that are spectacular. They are working things out. Did anyone really expect their games to mesh from day one? It never occurred to me to think that they weren't getting along on the court. I guess I don't look for it or maybe simply it isn't a big problem. They are not seasoned vets and maybe now it is absolutely clear to all what a veteran brings to the game that a rookie cannot. Knowledge. When these guys learn to hone their games to fit into the NBA and into the Kings better, they will be wonderful. So will the Kings. Enjoy the journey because I am going to ignore the attempts at balkanization.

Oh, and isn't most of this Reke vs Cuz scenario a fan created issue? Let's not act like it is real because it may not be.

 

[Sarunas]

I say for the next west coast road game, stick the two of them in a car and make them drive together. Nothing a 5-10hr drive together cant solve.

Touche Bricky, touche...

 

[Spok22]

I say for the next west coast road game, stick the two of them in a car and make them drive together. Nothing a 5-10hr drive together cant solve.

wheres that gif? lol

 

[Spok22]

I don't pay any attention to the sniping at Cuz and Reke. I see the big holes in their game and think "oh, my, wait until they have more experience and fill those holes" LIKE EVERY GREAT BASKETBALL PLAYER DOES. Those of you setting up this "war of the studs" scenario are missing a good show. Open up your eyes and minds and see what is going on.

We have two guys who can dominate at their position who are already accomplishing great things. They are piling up very, very good stats and pulling off athletic moves that some of us didn't think possible. And we criticize. My god, folks, enjoy it! I don't understand the people who think these children should be perfect.

"Balkanization" and "Kings fans" in the same thought: priceless.

Most fans know that young players get better. I hear the word "upside" so often that I want to puke. In any case, look at the upside of Reke and Cuz! There was a time when most of us would have been happy to have two guys who peaked as good as they are. We don't know what their peak is because of this thing called "upside." What is Reke going to be like when he fits in better? You can't tell me (you can try but I won't believe it) that he doesn't want to improve and be more of a team player. Why should he be any different than he is? His college coach said that he learned to just give Reke the ball and the team would score. He has been told for years to dominate the ball. Now he has to learn something different. He will.

Cuz has on-the-court problems also. He sometimes does things that are really stupid. How can he learn what he can do and can't do without trying and failing? He has to learn his limits at this level. He already has come from a guy who couldn't last 20 minutes to a guy who can give you 32 minutes.

As to the so called troubles on the floor between the two, I guess what I see is two great athletes occasionally hooking up to do things that are spectacular. They are working things out. Did anyone really expect their games to mesh from day one? It never occurred to me to think that they weren't getting along on the court. I guess I don't look for it or maybe simply it isn't a big problem. They are not seasoned vets and maybe now it is absolutely clear to all what a veteran brings to the game that a rookie cannot. Knowledge. When these guys learn to hone their games to fit into the NBA and into the Kings better, they will be wonderful. So will the Kings. Enjoy the journey because I am going to ignore the attempts at balkanization.

Oh, and isn't most of this Reke vs Cuz scenario a fan created issue? Let's not act like it is real because it may not be.

lots of good points. but whats up with the avatar?

 

[Bricklayer]

lots of good points. but whats up with the avatar?

Hey, that things a classic -- dates back the better part of 10 years. In fact you used to see it scattered all over the net, but it all started here.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

I am thinking I should change the title of this thread to something more accurate. Perhaps something snappy and catchy like "Sacramento Fans Are Idiots, Don't Know A Good Thing When They See One, And Love A Good Polarizing Debate".

Seems to be Webber/Peja on steroids. I'm blown away we have two possible superstars on this team and some fans seem to be looking for cheap take downs to diminish one or the other like they play for the team down South.

It does however show that we need a Vlade-style vet leader ASAP. Especially if we are able to land one more stud in next year's draft.

 

[Glenn]

lots of good points. but whats up with the avatar?

It's a picture of Brick after an all night drinking session. Or ...... what Brick said.

 

[mcsluggo]

I've had season tickets since 1990 and average over 35 games a year. But I'm giving serious consideration not upping next year.

No I don't yell at the players.

you are either 100% full of doodoo (and simply way overstating your postion here for some sort of dramatic effect), or 100% insane if you think that THIS year is the tipping point year, THE year where Kings basketball became simply unwatchable and with no hope.

seriously.

 

[GeorgeofSacramento]

I say for the next west coast road game, stick the two of them in a car and make them drive together. Nothing a 5-10hr drive together cant solve.

Add the Coach and make it a fun threesome!

 

[Spike]

It does however show that we need a Vlade-style vet leader ASAP. Especially if we are able to land one more stud in next year's draft.

When I remember Vlade's FA signing I thought, "We paid how much for what now?" Of course, I was a lot younger, but equally as handsome. Anyway, I digress. Who is available in this year's FA crop that would provide that sort of mentoring/leadership? I think that's just as important as a gunner. In other words, another Francisco Garcia in the locker room type player, with a higher caché.

 

[mcsluggo]

on THIS team that is MUCH more important than a gunner. A Cedrick Ceballos or Jaohn Salmons would be useless on this team (a detriment, actually)....
but a Grant Hill....? awesome!

 

[Section 101]

you are either 100% full of doodoo (and simply way overstating your postion here for some sort of dramatic effect), or 100% insane if you think that THIS year is the tipping point year, THE year where Kings basketball became simply unwatchable and with no hope.

seriously.

Cousins is my hope or if they get a real point guard to run the team. If Westfail isn't fired then I probably won't get them next year.

My uncle didn't get his tickets this year after having them since 1985. He hated last years play style.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I am thinking I should change the title of this thread to something more accurate. Perhaps something snappy and catchy like "Sacramento Fans Are Idiots, Don't Know A Good Thing When They See One, And Love A Good Polarizing Debate".

Because that is really what we are talking about here. Not the formation of Reke and Cousins camps in the locker room, after all of 4 months together -- and btw there largely IS no Cousins camp in the locker room, and won't be until he grows up and gives guys a man to follow with confidence. No, what we are talking about here is formations of Reke and Cousins camps in the fanbase, or perhaps more particularly anti-Reke or anti-Cousins camps in the fanbase. Because nothing says Kings fan quite so much as venom and balkanization.

Of course I have been calling out the burgeoning antio-Reke folks almsot as soon as I saw that get going. Drafting a rookie supertar type player provides a rare opportunity to see that stuff start. And its not about the player really, its about fans being dumb. In Reke's case you get a nice base of resentment going becuase of the whole Ricky Rubio fetish, you get some extra pop from people with limited basketball acumen who really don't know basketball except from the Kings style in the golden era. And you throw in backlash from fading former fan fav Kevin martin being traded, and you've gto a full fledged group of haters. And just so so dumb. I've called them out from the beginning, because what I know, and they should have, is that they were scuttling their own fandom from the beginning. You get a foundational star who is going to be around for 20% of your adult life, and you let yourself fall into the trap of casting him as the villain, and you have fundamentally lessened your own enjoyment of your own team for a large chunk of your life. You start doing perverted things like rooting against them doing well if the villain is going to get the credit. In reveling in anything that makes the villain, who also happens to be the best guy on your team, look wrong, and your own silly little ego right. You sit on quotews or op eds hpoping to hear/find players or columnists who support your own venom. You might even start trolling your own team's messageboards, looking for any opportunity to cut down or lessen the villain's accomplishments in the eyes of fellow fans. And the venom that spills over lessens everybody else's enjoyment around you too. Cousins in some way came in with a cleaner slate. No Rubio fetish or Martin fetish to get the haterade going. Obviously he has done everything possible to develop his own brand of naysayers in his rookie season, but they too are being dumb. The kid is an immense talent, maybe even a bigger talent than Evans, and setting your feet into some sort of anti-Cousins stance is just preparing yourself for a long run of disappointment, punctuated by little moments of perverse "I told you so" ego strokers when he screws up.

But of course that isn't the key to a thread about dumb fans setting these guys up in oppposing camps. All that is important for such a thread is that one guy or the other guy be used as a weapon or a wedge against the other guy you don't like. Isn't even necessary for you to like the wedger particular. He's not "him". He's not he villain your sad little ego has built up. And so like I say, this isn't a thread about this team at all. Not yet at least. Its a thread about the fans of the team. And not a complimentary one. I actually beleive the OP when he talks about the venom in the stands, because you see echoes of it around here all the time.

LOL!!!!








Nice synopsis. Not all Sac fans tho, brick.

 

[sidney]

Cousins is my hope or if they get a real point guard to run the team. If Westfail isn't fired then I probably won't get them next year.

My uncle didn't get his tickets this year after having them since 1985. He hated last years play style.

heh - years of watching Natt, Theus, and Mussleman and you are outraged at Westfall?
Years of watching KT, SAR, and a Pathetic Brad Miller and Tyreke makes you not want to renew?

It's been much, much worse than this year. Hard to believe you are being genuine.

 

[Section 101]

heh - years of watching Natt, Theus, and Mussleman and you are outraged at Westfall?
Years of watching KT, SAR, and a Pathetic Brad Miller and Tyreke makes you not want to renew?

It's been much, much worse than this year. Hard to believe you are being genuine.

Hence the contining problem since Adleman wasnt resigned. It's a continous failure on hiring a real coach.

 

[Kingsguy881]

heh - years of watching Natt, Theus, and Mussleman and you are outraged at Westfall?
Years of watching KT, SAR, and a Pathetic Brad Miller and Tyreke makes you not want to renew?

It's been much, much worse than this year. Hard to believe you are being genuine.

He is actually. He is one of the bigger Tyreke haters on this board. I like Section 101. but he does have his problem with Tyreke and yes, he is being 101% genuine. I don't agree with the guy, but I repsect his opinion and it is none too pretty when you ask him what he thinks of Tyreke.

 

[kennadog]

Nobody is going to get me to say anything bad about either player at this stage. They both have weaknesses in their games and they both have some amazing skills. I groan at both of them during some games. But I'm still excited to see what develops over the next year or two. I'm hoping for great things for both of them, together. It's a work in progress.

 

[IfAt1st]

Brick -
yours was a pretty amazing post, full f detailed approaches that suggests you are writing from seasoned, personal experience.
Quite eloquent.

One thing, though -

Why can't Kings fans have a problem with a player (let's say Tyreke's incessant ball-hoggery and TERRIBLE decisions that have cost the Kings multiple games this year) without them being "filled with hate" or "trying to bring down Tyreke" or "wishing he does bad"?

Basically, Brick -
When is it OK in your eyes, for a fanbase to say to their star player (who's been given more rope than anyone in memory): "Hey! Stop making stupid decisions at the end of games! Pass the ball on the break if a guy is open and ahead of you!"

 

[JB_kings]

Cousins is my hope or if they get a real point guard to run the team. If Westfail isn't fired then I probably won't get them next year.

My uncle didn't get his tickets this year after having them since 1985. He hated last years play style.

And he was ok with watching Rory Sparrow, Jim Les, Dick Motta and countless flotsom... and Tyreke and Westphal sent him over the edge? I'm speechless here.

 

[Kingsguy881]

Brick -
yours was a pretty amazing post, full f detailed approaches that suggests you are writing from seasoned, personal experience.
Quite eloquent.

One thing, though -

Why can't Kings fans have a problem with a player (let's say Tyreke's incessant ball-hoggery and TERRIBLE decisions that have cost the Kings multiple games this year) without them being "filled with hate" or "trying to bring down Tyreke" or "wishing he does bad"?

Basically, Brick -
When is it OK in your eyes, for a fanbase to say to their star player (who's been given more rope than anyone in memory): "Hey! Stop making stupid decisions at the end of games! Pass the ball on the break if a guy is open and ahead of you!"

To your last question, when he is a seasoned veteran, oh about 4 years into his career, and still doing the same thing. Right now he is learning, and part of that learning is learning to trust his teammates and realize that he might not always be the best option to score, and also learning when to pass and when to score and when to defer and when to take charge and when to do all the things that veterans know to do but young players struggle with.

I remember in Kobe's second season in the playoffs, he airballed a contested three pointer . I also remember thinking to myself at the time 'Man, that kid has no conscience, once he figures out his decision making he is gonna be a handful'. I remember thinking that same thing last year when Reke single handedly brought the Kings back against San Antonio but couldn't close the deal because he wouldn't pass the ball. Patience is a virtue.