Prospect watch 2011

bajaden

Hall of Famer
For those interested, and also have Direct TV, today at 7 pm west coast time, on channel 613 CBSC, San Diego St., 20 and 0, ranked number 4 in the nation will play BYU, 19 and 1, ranked number 9 in the nation. San Diego state features probable first round pick Kawhi Leonard, a 6'7" PF/SF. And BYU has the one of my favorites, Jimmer Fredette, a 6'3" SG/PG, and one of the best shooters in college basketball, currently averaging 26.7 pts a game, while averaging 41% from beyond the arc.

Important game for both schools whereas they're in the same conference and although both will be in the tournament, its games like these that determine the seeding. Can't watch it, then DVR it..
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
Barnes didn't have a particularly good game against Miami today, but he did score the last 5 points for his team including the go-ahead three that ended up winning the game. He spent most of the game floating around the perimeter or taking one or two dribbles then passing when he did get the ball. He doesn't seem to have a lot of impact outside of his scoring -- he did show some good anticipation on defense -- and he missed most of his shots today. But part of the problem is that North Carolina kept trying to get the ball in the post on offense and their post scorers (Zeller and Henson) just weren't very effective today. Miami was playing zone defense most of the game as well and they were quick on their rotations so none of North Carolina's guards were having much luck getting to the basket.

I'm having a hard time reconciling what I've seen from Barnes and what I've seen from Terrence Jones because they seem like similar players but Jones has been leading his team and Barnes hasn't been much of a factor most of the season. Is that just because Jones has been playing much more aggressively or is it because of the systems that they're playing in?
 
Jimmer is an incredible little player. Very impressed after this game.

I know it might be selling the kid short, but he does remind me of the 'guy who dominates in college/ could struggle in the pros' type player. Not going to stop anyone on defense, and only real pro level skill is shooting. Redick turned himself into a respectable NBA player, and Im sure Jimmer can find a spot somewhere in the league too.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Jimmer is an incredible little player. Very impressed after this game.

I know it might be selling the kid short, but he does remind me of the 'guy who dominates in college/ could struggle in the pros' type player. Not going to stop anyone on defense, and only real pro level skill is shooting. Redick turned himself into a respectable NBA player, and Im sure Jimmer can find a spot somewhere in the league too.
Here's the thing. Jimmer has done that against everybody he's faced. He's not perfect, but the flaws he has can be improved upon. But I haven't seen anyone that can shoot the ball like he can since I remember watching Larry Bird at Indiana. I mean he laid what, 44 pts on San Diego St., a good defensive team tonight, and it was almost effortless. Almost all of his shots were either going to the basket, coming off a screen or just shooting off the dribble, and almost all of them were contested.

The thing I love about him, is that he has attitude, and confidence. Right now he's hitting shots with a hand in his face, and he's hitting them from25/26 feet out. How do you think he would do shooting a wide open three from the corner. I think this kid will be better in the pro's. When you have someone that can shoot like he can, you can find a way to get him his shots. He was absolutely terrific tonight.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I would just like to add this. I love defense as much as the next guy. But players coming out of college are rarely good defenders. Especially the one's that are good scorers. Even in the pro's the players that can score the ball and then defend the ball are rare. Usually when you find one, he's a superstar, or at worse a star. Scoring the ball is just as important, if not in some ways more important as defending the ball. If you don't score points, your going to lose. Its that simple.

My point being, if you can find someone that can give you 20 plus on a regular basis, and do it in an effecient way, then you can figure out how to defend with him in the game. So its fine to look at a college players defensive abilities. But I'll say it once again. Look at what he can do. And if what he can do is exceptional, then worry about what he can't do later. Because there aren't that many exceptional players around.

When Larry Bird came out of college, a lot of the scouts, including our own Scotty Sterling, said that he was a great shooter, but he couldn't jump. wasn't athletic, and would be a defensive libility. Lets see how Fredette turns out.
 
Purdue vs. Ohio State (01/25/2011)

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger (PF)

A solid game from Sullinger. In the opening moments of the game showed some nice passing out of the double-team to keep the offense moving and open up good shooting opportunities.

However, for the early part of the game was really neutralzing and being neutralized by JaJaun Johnson. Didn't really have any offense going, and was just letting his teammates run the offense and provide scoring.

Ended up having to take a 3-pt shot with the clock running down. His feet were set, and he made the shot, and that seemed to really loosen him up a bit, as he became a lot more involved in the offense. He ended up hitting another 3 later in the game.

He shot a great percentage (7/12) and had 7 boards in the game. It wasn't a fantastic game, but the way the game went, he didn't have to be spectacular. So he didn't force anything, played solid ball, and ended up with a decent game.

I will say that though he ended the game with just 2 assists, he did a very good job of passing the ball today.

Purdue - JaJuan Johnson (PF)

As mentioned, was playing against Sullinger for a good amount of the game, and neither he or Sullinger really got much of anything going in the first part of the game.

He was more active than Sullinger on the offensive end and showed good skills. He was 3/4 from the 3-pt line, and you could tell that Sullinger did not like playing him out that far. But he also had a couple of nice moves in the paint, using his length to go over or around Sullinger.

Johnson forced a couple of bad shots, trying to get things going for his team, and there were a few instances where he had defensive lapses that cost his team points.

He had a good game, and I'd say that he outplayed Sullinger in the game, but due to how the game went, he was forced to try and make a lot of things happen, while Sullinger didn't have to carry any sort of load in this one.


Texas vs. Oklahoma State (1/26/2011)

Texas - Jordan Hamilton (SG/SF)

So Jordan was matched up quite a bit with Jean-Paul Olukemi, who is an athletic player, but though is listed at 6'7 is noticably shorter than Hamilton. I was hoping to see them matched up for most of the game, because the big question for me with Hamilton is whether or not he's quick enough to play the SG position.

I really want him to be able to play the SG position, because if he can, he'd be one of my top choices for this Kings team. He's a great shooter, and put that on display hitting 4/5 3-pt shots. He's a great rebounder and showed that again with 11 boards. He's a good athlete and is showing some decent passing abilities.

I don't think that his ball-handling is good enough for a SG, though it is good enough for a SF, and I'm not certain if he's quick enough to play at the SG position.

So I keep hoping to watch a game where I see him play in a manner that would make me feel comfortable claiming that he could be an ideal SG for us.

Back to his match-up against Olukemi. For the most part he played good defense against Olukemi. However, whenever Olukemi used a screen to try and get by Hamilton, Hamilton would just switch off to defend the screener rather than staying with Olukemi. There were a couple of times that Olukemi was able to find a seam and get past Hamilton, and Hamilton fouled him in two of those situations.

So over-all, this wasn't an encouraging game from a SG defensive stand-point. I'm sure there will be plenty of match-ups to watch in the future.

On the offensive end, I mentioned that he hit 4/5 threes, but that was the entire extent of his offense. He ended the game with 12 points, didn't get to the free-throw line, and was 0/4 from with-in the arch.

The reason he didn't get to the free-throw line was because he really wasn't aggressive on the offensive end. I've seen games where he's spent a lot of time working in the paint, trying to get position, but he did very little of that in this game. He also only had one or two drives into the lane.

He played good team defense, shot the open 3, and rebounded well, and made some good passes, so it was a decent game from him, but I've seen him perform better.


Texas - Tristan Thompson (PF)

Played great defense at the start of this game.
Unfortunately he steped out-of-bounds baseline twice in first 4 minutes and then delivered a difficult pass into the post for a turn-over.

He then picked up two fouls and was gone for the rest of the half. I'm not certain he scored at all in the first half.

In the 2nd half he really turned it around.

He was very active in the paint, and ended up scoring 12 points on dunks and put-backs. He's only credited with 3 rebounds for the game, but he was really active in there today, so it didn't seem as if he was underperforming in that department.


San Diego St vs. BYU (01/26/11)

BYU - Jimmer Fredette (PG/SG)

If you haven't seen Fredette play, then watching this game would give you an idea of what his game is like. Fredette is a 6'2 combo-guard, who can shoot the ball from anywhere on the court, has a great handle and cross-over and is a tenacious competitor.

He's got some bulk on him, so he isn't wafer-thin, and though he isn't the most athletic player in the world, he is able to get to his spots on the floor and get his shot up past almost anyone, and can finish through contact fairly well.

He's a great FT shooter shooting 90% for the year, and hitting 10/11 against SDSU in this game.
He put up 43 points on 14/24 shooting while hitting 5/8 from the 3. He also had 4 rebounds, 4 TOs, and no assists.

He's with-out a doubt a shoot-first guard, but he does hit the open man on the break and will set up other players, but when he's feeling it, you typically want him to take his shots.

Because he's got a good handle, he's got a very nice cross-over which he uses quite a bit to either get past his defender and into the lane, or to create space to get an open shot. When he drives into the lane he'll either take it all the way to finish, pull up for a 6-8 ft jumper, or utilize a nice floater.

He basically took the game over for his team in this one, and with his continued great play, he's going to see his draft stock rising.

Right now he's trying to market himself as a PG, but you know how that goes. Ultimately it will come down to whether a team believes that he can play some at the point, or if he'll end up being an under-sized shooting guard. He has a good handle and will look to set up his team, but he's by no means a pure PG.


SDSU - Kawhi Leonard (PF)

Leonard had a good game today.

He started the game with an offensive rebound and continued to rebound the entire game, ending up with 15, 9 on the offensive end. He was just active around the boards the entire game. He ended up with 22 points on 8/20 shooting, and 5/8 from the charity stripe. What hurt him was his 3pt shooting where he was 1/5.

He took a number of really tough turn-around jump shots while fading away. He made one but missed a couple of others, and when things started to tighten he began to force things. He took some bad shots, forced drives into the paint, and made some bad passes, which all hurt his team's ability to get good scoring oportunities. Most of it was just him trying to do to much, but with what Fredette was doing on the other end, I think he was trying to keep pace.

But through it all, he was always incredibly active around the bucket, getting his team 2nd and 3rd opportunities to score.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Purdue vs. Ohio State (01/25/2011)

Ohio State - Jared Sullinger (PF)

A solid game from Sullinger. In the opening moments of the game showed some nice passing out of the double-team to keep the offense moving and open up good shooting opportunities.

However, for the early part of the game was really neutralzing and being neutralized by JaJaun Johnson. Didn't really have any offense going, and was just letting his teammates run the offense and provide scoring.

Ended up having to take a 3-pt shot with the clock running down. His feet were set, and he made the shot, and that seemed to really loosen him up a bit, as he became a lot more involved in the offense. He ended up hitting another 3 later in the game.

He shot a great percentage (7/12) and had 7 boards in the game. It wasn't a fantastic game, but the way the game went, he didn't have to be spectacular. So he didn't force anything, played solid ball, and ended up with a decent game.

I will say that though he ended the game with just 2 assists, he did a very good job of passing the ball today.

Purdue - JaJuan Johnson (PF)

As mentioned, was playing against Sullinger for a good amount of the game, and neither he or Sullinger really got much of anything going in the first part of the game.

He was more active than Sullinger on the offensive end and showed good skills. He was 3/4 from the 3-pt line, and you could tell that Sullinger did not like playing him out that far. But he also had a couple of nice moves in the paint, using his length to go over or around Sullinger.

Johnson forced a couple of bad shots, trying to get things going for his team, and there were a few instances where he had defensive lapses that cost his team points.

He had a good game, and I'd say that he outplayed Sullinger in the game, but due to how the game went, he was forced to try and make a lot of things happen, while Sullinger didn't have to carry any sort of load in this one.


Texas vs. Oklahoma State (1/26/2011)

Texas - Jordan Hamilton (SG/SF)

So Jordan was matched up quite a bit with Jean-Paul Olukemi, who is an athletic player, but though is listed at 6'7 is noticably shorter than Hamilton. I was hoping to see them matched up for most of the game, because the big question for me with Hamilton is whether or not he's quick enough to play the SG position.

I really want him to be able to play the SG position, because if he can, he'd be one of my top choices for this Kings team. He's a great shooter, and put that on display hitting 4/5 3-pt shots. He's a great rebounder and showed that again with 11 boards. He's a good athlete and is showing some decent passing abilities.

I don't think that his ball-handling is good enough for a SG, though it is good enough for a SF, and I'm not certain if he's quick enough to play at the SG position.

So I keep hoping to watch a game where I see him play in a manner that would make me feel comfortable claiming that he could be an ideal SG for us.

Back to his match-up against Olukemi. For the most part he played good defense against Olukemi. However, whenever Olukemi used a screen to try and get by Hamilton, Hamilton would just switch off to defend the screener rather than staying with Olukemi. There were a couple of times that Olukemi was able to find a seam and get past Hamilton, and Hamilton fouled him in two of those situations.

So over-all, this wasn't an encouraging game from a SG defensive stand-point. I'm sure there will be plenty of match-ups to watch in the future.

On the offensive end, I mentioned that he hit 4/5 threes, but that was the entire extent of his offense. He ended the game with 12 points, didn't get to the free-throw line, and was 0/4 from with-in the arch.

The reason he didn't get to the free-throw line was because he really wasn't aggressive on the offensive end. I've seen games where he's spent a lot of time working in the paint, trying to get position, but he did very little of that in this game. He also only had one or two drives into the lane.

He played good team defense, shot the open 3, and rebounded well, and made some good passes, so it was a decent game from him, but I've seen him perform better.


Texas - Tristan Thompson (PF)

Played great defense at the start of this game.
Unfortunately he steped out-of-bounds baseline twice in first 4 minutes and then delivered a difficult pass into the post for a turn-over.

He then picked up two fouls and was gone for the rest of the half. I'm not certain he scored at all in the first half.

In the 2nd half he really turned it around.

He was very active in the paint, and ended up scoring 12 points on dunks and put-backs. He's only credited with 3 rebounds for the game, but he was really active in there today, so it didn't seem as if he was underperforming in that department.


San Diego St vs. BYU (01/26/11)

BYU - Jimmer Fredette (PG/SG)

If you haven't seen Fredette play, then watching this game would give you an idea of what his game is like. Fredette is a 6'2 combo-guard, who can shoot the ball from anywhere on the court, has a great handle and cross-over and is a tenacious competitor.

He's got some bulk on him, so he isn't wafer-thin, and though he isn't the most athletic player in the world, he is able to get to his spots on the floor and get his shot up past almost anyone, and can finish through contact fairly well.

He's a great FT shooter shooting 90% for the year, and hitting 10/11 against SDSU in this game.
He put up 43 points on 14/24 shooting while hitting 5/8 from the 3. He also had 4 rebounds, 4 TOs, and no assists.

He's with-out a doubt a shoot-first guard, but he does hit the open man on the break and will set up other players, but when he's feeling it, you typically want him to take his shots.

Because he's got a good handle, he's got a very nice cross-over which he uses quite a bit to either get past his defender and into the lane, or to create space to get an open shot. When he drives into the lane he'll either take it all the way to finish, pull up for a 6-8 ft jumper, or utilize a nice floater.

He basically took the game over for his team in this one, and with his continued great play, he's going to see his draft stock rising.

Right now he's trying to market himself as a PG, but you know how that goes. Ultimately it will come down to whether a team believes that he can play some at the point, or if he'll end up being an under-sized shooting guard. He has a good handle and will look to set up his team, but he's by no means a pure PG.


SDSU - Kawhi Leonard (PF)

Leonard had a good game today.

He started the game with an offensive rebound and continued to rebound the entire game, ending up with 15, 9 on the offensive end. He was just active around the boards the entire game. He ended up with 22 points on 8/20 shooting, and 5/8 from the charity stripe. What hurt him was his 3pt shooting where he was 1/5.

He took a number of really tough turn-around jump shots while fading away. He made one but missed a couple of others, and when things started to tighten he began to force things. He took some bad shots, forced drives into the paint, and made some bad passes, which all hurt his team's ability to get good scoring oportunities. Most of it was just him trying to do to much, but with what Fredette was doing on the other end, I think he was trying to keep pace.

But through it all, he was always incredibly active around the bucket, getting his team 2nd and 3rd opportunities to score.
Good analogy, especially on the SDSU/BYU game. Its hard to say whether Jimmer can play as a true PG or not, since he's being asked to carry his team offensively night after night. But he does have some of the skills necessary to be a PG. To be honest, I'm not sure you need a so called pure PG next to Tyreke. Since Tyreke is the drive and score or kick out type, a guard that can and will hit the open shot might be the way to go. My god, hitting an open shot for Jimmer would probably be a piece of cake. He should have had a few assists in the game, but unfortunately every good pass he made didn't end up with a basket. I expect Jimmer's stock to rise with the display he put on last night. Thing is, that wasn't an abboration. He's been doing this all year.

Ohio St./Purdue game was a wierd one for Sullinger. Ohio St. came out and just killed Purdue from the get go. The game appeared over after the first 10 minutes. As a result, I don't think you saw the intensity from Sullinger that you expect to see. I had the feeling the entire game that he was just coasting. Can't say the same thing for JuJaun. He's a skilled guy with good length. His problem is that around the basket he gets moved by everyone. They have him listed at around 225, but I'm not sure he actually weighs that much. I know his freshman year he was listed at 6'10" and 185. If both weights are accurate, then I question whether he'll ever be able to put on enough weight to match up against the PF's of the NBA.

Kawhi Leonard is an interesting player. Very athletic and has quite a few offensive skills. I think his defensive skills and his rebounding is what will attract NBA scouts. Not quite sure of his position, but he's certainly athletic enought to play the SF position, which I think with his size is where he'll have to end up. He does have a 3 pt shot, but seldom takes it. He does have a decent mid-range game and can score around the basket with his quickness and tenacity. I have no doubt that he'll be a first round pick. Just how high up the board he'll go is hard to say. There are rumors down here in San Diego land that he might come back for his senior year. With the new CBA looming, I doubt it.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Interesting quote from one of the scouts at the BYU game last night when asked about Jimmer Fredette. "Its a lot easier to teach someone to play defense, than it is to drop 25 on a team. Curry never played defense at Davidson."
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
If you haven't seen it already, you should check out the new player profiles at realgm. There's a lot of useful information on there like award history and box scores for all of the high school all-star games. Here's the one for DeMarcus Cousins for instance:

http://basketball.realgm.com/player/DeMarcus_Cousins/Summary/2192

And you can find them for most of this year's top prospects too. Just click on the year next to McDonald's All-American game to get to the boxscore and the boxscores from the last five years are listed on the right of the screen. It's interesting going back and seeing who did well in those games and how they've done in the NBA.
 
Ohio St./Purdue game was a wierd one for Sullinger. Ohio St. came out and just killed Purdue from the get go. The game appeared over after the first 10 minutes. As a result, I don't think you saw the intensity from Sullinger that you expect to see. I had the feeling the entire game that he was just coasting.
I agree completely about Sullinger. His team didn't need him to really step up, and so he didn't.
It was a decent game from him, but not one of his better ones.

As far as Fredette goes, he's just a great shooter and a great competitor.
I think his absolute minimum downside would be Jose Barea, so I can see him coming into the league and helping out a team. It will be interesting to see how things play out for him.
 
Vanderbilt vs. Mississippi State (01/27/2011)

Vanderbilt - Jeffrey Taylor (SF/SG)

I keep on watching all these college basketball games hoping to find a player who I think not only has good talent but also a good fit to help our team.
I watch the top prospect and see:
Sullinger - May not be a good fit next to Cousins due to duplicative post presense and lack of defensive length
Perry Jones III - May be too raw to develop with the young team
Terrance Jones - Can he display the SF skills we need? (Spread floor with shot)
Kemba Walker - Does an undersized shoot-first PG make a good fit next to Tyreke?
Chris Singleton - Can he provide enough offensive from the SF position?
Derrick Williams - Is he a SF or a PF? Much like T. Jones can he provide the SF game we need?
Harrison Barnes - Is he going develop into the player that people expected of him?
Jordan Hamilton - Is he quick enough to play the SG position?

All this brings me to Jeffrey Taylor, and even though he's not projected as a top 10 talent, I think that he is one of the better players that the Kings could pick up. I'd never seen him play till earlier this season, but every time I watch Vanderbilt play, I come away thinking that he'd be really good for us.

He's listed at 6'7, and though I have questions regarding Hamilton's ability to keep up with SGs, there is no question that Taylor has the quickness to defend the SG spot. He's very quick for his size, incredibly athletic, and apparently he's added 20-25 pounds of muscle to his frame over the last year or so.

So one thing I like is that he's a great defender. In all the games I've watched, he's always been tasked to guard the opposing team's best guard. In the case of this game it was 6'2 guard Dee Bost, and considering how quick Bost is, Taylor did a very good job of staying in front of him, denying him the ball, and challenging his shots.

He has added a 3pt shot to his game. He is a Junior, and is shooting 35.8% from the 3, which is up from 9.10% his Sophmore year.
So he isn't anywhere near the shooter that Hamilton is, but his shooting game is far more reminencent of a SG/SF than Derrick Williams or Terrance Jones.

So when watching him play there are a few things not to like. The first is that he isn't consistently aggressive on the offensive end. When he decides that he's going to make things happen, he's usually successful, but it seems as if he allows the game to come to him a bit too much. Now, this is probably a good trait to have for him once he gets to the NBA, but I'd like to see him more aggressive.
When he does get aggressive, he has a decent enough handle to attack the paint and is strong and explosive enough to finish. He also, as mentioned, has a fairly good 3-pt shot. In the game today he was 3-9, and one of those was a missed buzzer beater type of attempt. (As an aside, in his previous games this year, he had attempted 5 3pt shots once, and all other games was 4 or less, so the 9 3pt shot attempts is quite an abberation)

Against Mississippi State, it was his play in the 2nd half which allowed Vanderbilt to get back into the game. He played great defense, got steals, and made aggressive plays on the offensive end to get his team back in it. And he made the final play of the game to seal the victory when he got a steal and slammed it home through 2 defenders. (You can see that last play if you check out the box score for the game on ESPN)

Another issue is his rebounding. He's got good size and hops, but he's only averaging 5 rebounds a game, and he should be having more. Perhaps he lacks length when compared to Hamilton, so that is something to watch for during the combine.

Anyway, I've only been able to catch 3 games of Jeffrey Taylor. After the first game, I really liked what I saw, but since he's never mentioned, I felt it might have just been a fluke game. The next two I've been watching to convince myself that he isn't as good as I think he is, and I've walked away impressed after those games as well.

He put up 25 points on 9/18 shooting, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals, 1 block, and 1 TO.

He is one of those players who I think will have an impact in a lot of areas other than scoring, but can score when needed to, which is why I think he looks to be the type of player we need.
If you have a chance to watch Vanderbilt play, check out Jeffrey Taylor, and see if he can convince you that he could be a good fit for our team.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
Vanderbilt vs. Mississippi State (01/27/2011)

Vanderbilt - Jeffrey Taylor (SF/SG)

I keep on watching all these college basketball games hoping to find a player who I think not only has good talent but also a good fit to help our team.
I watch the top prospect and see:
Sullinger - May not be a good fit next to Cousins due to duplicative post presense and lack of defensive length
Perry Jones III - May be too raw to develop with the young team
Terrance Jones - Can he display the SF skills we need? (Spread floor with shot)
Kemba Walker - Does an undersized shoot-first PG make a good fit next to Tyreke?
Chris Singleton - Can he provide enough offensive from the SF position?
Derrick Williams - Is he a SF or a PF? Much like T. Jones can he provide the SF game we need?
Harrison Barnes - Is he going develop into the player that people expected of him?
Jordan Hamilton - Is he quick enough to play the SG position?

All this brings me to Jeffrey Taylor, and even though he's not projected as a top 10 talent, I think that he is one of the better players that the Kings could pick up. I'd never seen him play till earlier this season, but every time I watch Vanderbilt play, I come away thinking that he'd be really good for us.

He's listed at 6'7, and though I have questions regarding Hamilton's ability to keep up with SGs, there is no question that Taylor has the quickness to defend the SG spot. He's very quick for his size, incredibly athletic, and apparently he's added 20-25 pounds of muscle to his frame over the last year or so.

So one thing I like is that he's a great defender. In all the games I've watched, he's always been tasked to guard the opposing team's best guard. In the case of this game it was 6'2 guard Dee Bost, and considering how quick Bost is, Taylor did a very good job of staying in front of him, denying him the ball, and challenging his shots.

He has added a 3pt shot to his game. He is a Junior, and is shooting 35.8% from the 3, which is up from 9.10% his Sophmore year.
So he isn't anywhere near the shooter that Hamilton is, but his shooting game is far more reminencent of a SG/SF than Derrick Williams or Terrance Jones.

So when watching him play there are a few things not to like. The first is that he isn't consistently aggressive on the offensive end. When he decides that he's going to make things happen, he's usually successful, but it seems as if he allows the game to come to him a bit too much. Now, this is probably a good trait to have for him once he gets to the NBA, but I'd like to see him more aggressive.
When he does get aggressive, he has a decent enough handle to attack the paint and is strong and explosive enough to finish. He also, as mentioned, has a fairly good 3-pt shot. In the game today he was 3-9, and one of those was a missed buzzer beater type of attempt. (As an aside, in his previous games this year, he had attempted 5 3pt shots once, and all other games was 4 or less, so the 9 3pt shot attempts is quite an abberation)

Against Mississippi State, it was his play in the 2nd half which allowed Vanderbilt to get back into the game. He played great defense, got steals, and made aggressive plays on the offensive end to get his team back in it. And he made the final play of the game to seal the victory when he got a steal and slammed it home through 2 defenders. (You can see that last play if you check out the box score for the game on ESPN)

Another issue is his rebounding. He's got good size and hops, but he's only averaging 5 rebounds a game, and he should be having more. Perhaps he lacks length when compared to Hamilton, so that is something to watch for during the combine.

Anyway, I've only been able to catch 3 games of Jeffrey Taylor. After the first game, I really liked what I saw, but since he's never mentioned, I felt it might have just been a fluke game. The next two I've been watching to convince myself that he isn't as good as I think he is, and I've walked away impressed after those games as well.

He put up 25 points on 9/18 shooting, 5 rebounds, 2 assists, 3 steals, 1 block, and 1 TO.

He is one of those players who I think will have an impact in a lot of areas other than scoring, but can score when needed to, which is why I think he looks to be the type of player we need.
If you have a chance to watch Vanderbilt play, check out Jeffrey Taylor, and see if he can convince you that he could be a good fit for our team.

The description of Kemba Walker is more of a cliche than a description. Unlike Tyreke, Kemba Walker can run a pick and roll. That's all the Kings need - a guard that can run the pick and roll. He also plays well without the ball, another complement to Tyreke. He's much more diversified than your description would imply. He also plays D, and the Kings are in dire need of two-way players. He can guard quick guards because he is very quick. No, he doesn't have the creativity of CP3, but he's more than adequate in BB IQ and passing skills. Maybe because this Kings team is so immature that I'm starving for it, he does appear to be quite mature in his decisions on the floor and what has to be done in order to win games. He has very good patience on the one hand, but is extremely good at stepping up and hitting big shots at the end of games to win them.

Regarding Derrick Williams, I don't care whether he is a 3 or a 4, just like I could care less with Tyreke whether he was a 1 or a 2. Williams has a diversified game as well. He has an excellent shooting percentage from 3 point land, he drives to the basket, he's a beast under the basket, a great finisher, and he rebounds. He's athletic and therefore has a high ceiling. His disfunctional team didn't get him the ball nearly enough last night against UCLA, but he still had a big impact. Williams would be an upgrade over Thompson, Landry, Garcia, or Casspi. He's my #1 guy right now, probably because I haven't seen Kemba play lately. If I see Kemba play soon, I'll probably switch it around.:D

I just don't see Sullinger as athletic as Williams, and at least right now, he's not as diversified because he doesn't have much of an outside game (I did see a nice stroke from him from the outside in the Purdue game though). I agree that he wouldn't be a great complement with Cousins. Still, I'd like to see more of his games so I could get a better assessment.

Perry Jones - I agree with you there too. He's too raw, too weak.

Singleton - In answer to your question: No. To me, he's a low first, high second pick.

Jeffrey Taylor - I'll have to check him out. I like the fact that you're going out on a limb with somebody who is not consensus top 10. The season is young and maybe this is the kind of guy that really skyrockets toward the end of the season and in the end of season workouts.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I like Jeffery Taylor, and saw the game. Not sure why he's not ranked higher unless they just think he is what he is, because he's a junior, and that freshmen still have more upside. He's a very good athlete, and I agree that he can play the SG position. To make the upside arguement, Taylor is shooting 35 plus percent from beyond the arc as a junior. T. Jones is shooting 33 plus percent from beyond the arc as a freshman. So based on natural progression, one would think that Jones will be able to greatly improve in that area. Especially if he becomes a pro and is able to work on his game full time as oppossed to fitting it in between classes and games. Here's where I'm going with this. I think Jones has star written all over him, and I don't see that with either Hamilton or Taylor.

The other side of the coin of course is that your probably more sure of what your getting with both Hamiltion and Taylor, and there are more question marks with T. Jones. By the way, for those curious how Perry Jones shoots from beyond the arc. Ask no futher. He shooting a blistering 12%...
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
The description of Kemba Walker is more of a cliche than a description. Unlike Tyreke, Kemba Walker can run a pick and roll. That's all the Kings need - a guard that can run the pick and roll. He also plays well without the ball, another complement to Tyreke. He's much more diversified than your description would imply. He also plays D, and the Kings are in dire need of two-way players. He can guard quick guards because he is very quick. No, he doesn't have the creativity of CP3, but he's more than adequate in BB IQ and passing skills. Maybe because this Kings team is so immature that I'm starving for it, he does appear to be quite mature in his decisions on the floor and what has to be done in order to win games. He has very good patience on the one hand, but is extremely good at stepping up and hitting big shots at the end of games to win them.

Regarding Derrick Williams, I don't care whether he is a 3 or a 4, just like I could care less with Tyreke whether he was a 1 or a 2. Williams has a diversified game as well. He has an excellent shooting percentage from 3 point land, he drives to the basket, he's a beast under the basket, a great finisher, and he rebounds. He's athletic and therefore has a high ceiling. His disfunctional team didn't get him the ball nearly enough last night against UCLA, but he still had a big impact. Williams would be an upgrade over Thompson, Landry, Garcia, or Casspi. He's my #1 guy right now, probably because I haven't seen Kemba play lately. If I see Kemba play soon, I'll probably switch it around.:D

I just don't see Sullinger as athletic as Williams, and at least right now, he's not as diversified because he doesn't have much of an outside game (I did see a nice stroke from him from the outside in the Purdue game though). I agree that he wouldn't be a great complement with Cousins. Still, I'd like to see more of his games so I could get a better assessment.

Perry Jones - I agree with you there too. He's too raw, too weak.

Singleton - In answer to your question: No. To me, he's a low first, high second pick.

Jeffrey Taylor - I'll have to check him out. I like the fact that you're going out on a limb with somebody who is not consensus top 10. The season is young and maybe this is the kind of guy that really skyrockets toward the end of the season and in the end of season workouts.
You have to add Jimmer Fredette to your list. If you like Walkers game, then you'll absolutely love Fredette's. To know that he scored 43 pts against a very good defensive team in San Diego St. is one thing. To see him do it is quite another. He made it look easy. Almost childs play. He uses screens beautifully. Is great running the pick and roll. Great going to the basket with either a pull up jumper, a floater, or finishing with either hand. He has a wicked crossover dribble and can create his own shot.

While he may not be the quickest PG/SG in the league, neither is Steve Nash or Mike Bibby etc. It will be interesting to see how he fares at the combine. He was originally recuited as a SG, but has slowly been developing PG skills. So I wouldn't call him a PG just yet, but he does have a good handle and is a good passer. You do not want to leave him open. Hell, they couldn't stop him period. I wish we had another first round pick in the middle of the round. I'd love to have Fredette.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
I just don't see Sullinger as athletic as Williams, and at least right now, he's not as diversified because he doesn't have much of an outside game (I did see a nice stroke from him from the outside in the Purdue game though). I agree that he wouldn't be a great complement with Cousins. Still, I'd like to see more of his games so I could get a better assessment.
From the two games of his I've seen so far this year, I think Derrick Williams is a better fit at SF than PF. His jump shot looks really smooth and I don't know how much success he'll have posting up against bigger PF in the NBA. If he continues to add range to his shot (and looking at his form I'm pretty sure that he can) he's going to be a nightmare at SF because he'll be a threat from anywhere on the floor. Those post skills will come in handy in isolation situations against other SFs, which are closer in size to the opponents he's facing now. Actually, I'm considering moving him up to #2 or #3 in my rankings mostly because I think he could be a beast of a SF.
 
I understand the whole "no one coming out of college is really good at defense" thing, but with Jimmer I think the problem is the potential for being a good, or an even average defender isnt there. But like I said with JJ, he had no defensive potential and he has become a pretty good defender, so who knows. I cant say I would expect great defense from Jimmer though. With Steph Curry I would at least say he had some tools. Not a great athlete, but he always had his quickness that at least led you to hope he could become a decent defender.

Jimmer just reminds me too much of a guy like Omar Samhan. Has that one good skill ( Samhan had some really nice post moves, Jimmer has the shot ) but it just isnt enough. Jason Kapono is a fantastic shooter, whats he doing now?

Now I know im being to harsh. I do like Jimmer, and I think he loves basketball enough to improve the rest of his game, but I dont think his potential is as high as a guy like Kemba Walker. I mean, After the SDSU game Chad Ford put him in his top 15. Hey, I could be wrong, and Im not in love with this draft class, but that seems a bit high to me.
 
I like Jimmer's scoring game a lot, and it's definitely NBA viable--he can shoot the long ball and get to the rack. I don't think anyone wants him to a better passer--he's good as he is, an unselfish scorer who can pass within the offensive flow. He's not very dimensional, but he'll be useful in run-and-gun offenses with teams that don't care about defense (read: Golden State, Minnesota) or in teams that need that sparkplug scorer off the bench (I really see his upside in organized offenses as sort of like a JJ Redick--a guy who can give you 10-11 in 22 off the bench). Either way, I think he's smart enough to adapt and find a niche wherever he lands. I have him in the draft between #16-26, and I was leaning more towards 26 because of his athletic deficiencies+his height+lack of all-around game, but....
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I understand the whole "no one coming out of college is really good at defense" thing, but with Jimmer I think the problem is the potential for being a good, or an even average defender isnt there. But like I said with JJ, he had no defensive potential and he has become a pretty good defender, so who knows. I cant say I would expect great defense from Jimmer though. With Steph Curry I would at least say he had some tools. Not a great athlete, but he always had his quickness that at least led you to hope he could become a decent defender.

Jimmer just reminds me too much of a guy like Omar Samhan. Has that one good skill ( Samhan had some really nice post moves, Jimmer has the shot ) but it just isnt enough. Jason Kapono is a fantastic shooter, whats he doing now?

Now I know im being to harsh. I do like Jimmer, and I think he loves basketball enough to improve the rest of his game, but I dont think his potential is as high as a guy like Kemba Walker. I mean, After the SDSU game Chad Ford put him in his top 15. Hey, I could be wrong, and Im not in love with this draft class, but that seems a bit high to me.
Yeah, I would say comparing his potential to Samham is being more than a little harsh. I've been watching Fredette for three years now, and he's a much better athlete than people are giving him credit for. As for being quick, he's as quick off the dribble as Curry, and in my humble opinion, a better shooter than Curry by a long shot. I'm not about to say that Jimmer will ever be a lock down defender, but he can be as good or better than Bibby was, and he certainly found a place in the league. Its great if you have a guy that can keep everybody in front of him, but they are far and few between. However if your a student of the game and you study your opponents, you can certainly play good team defense.

I hate to use Larry Bird, but I heard this same stuff about him when he came out of Indiana. And I agree with the scout. Its a lot easier to find someone that can play defense than it is that can score 25 a game. And do it efficiently. I also think that Jimmer is a better athlete than Reddick. But hey, we'll find out. I just hope I'm not watching him throw down 30 on us a couple of years from now.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I like Jimmer's scoring game a lot, and it's definitely NBA viable--he can shoot the long ball and get to the rack. I don't think anyone wants him to a better passer--he's good as he is, an unselfish scorer who can pass within the offensive flow. He's not very dimensional, but he'll be useful in run-and-gun offenses with teams that don't care about defense (read: Golden State, Minnesota) or in teams that need that sparkplug scorer off the bench (I really see his upside in organized offenses as sort of like a JJ Redick--a guy who can give you 10-11 in 22 off the bench). Either way, I think he's smart enough to adapt and find a niche wherever he lands. I have him in the draft between #16-26, and I was leaning more towards 26 because of his athletic deficiencies+his height+lack of all-around game, but....
I have him betwee 15 and 20. So were in the same ballpark. It will be interesting to see how he fares if BYU goes deep in the tournament and he goes up against top competition. Not that San Diego St. isn't great competition. Their a very good defensive team and were ranked number 4 in the nation before playing BYU.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
From the two games of his I've seen so far this year, I think Derrick Williams is a better fit at SF than PF. His jump shot looks really smooth and I don't know how much success he'll have posting up against bigger PF in the NBA. If he continues to add range to his shot (and looking at his form I'm pretty sure that he can) he's going to be a nightmare at SF because he'll be a threat from anywhere on the floor. Those post skills will come in handy in isolation situations against other SFs, which are closer in size to the opponents he's facing now. Actually, I'm considering moving him up to #2 or #3 in my rankings mostly because I think he could be a beast of a SF.
I like Williams a lot, and I can see him as a stretch 4, similar to Jeff Green. He's one of those guys that can guard PF's and SF's depending on the matchups and can score against either of them. He's be a good fit on the Kings. He's sort of what Patrick Patterson was suspossed to be, but with more feel for the game. Much better player than Patterson..
 
I'd like some opinions about CJ Leslie--he's everywhere over my board (#8-27 to be exact). He's not unlike another Wolfpack in JJ Hickson, but he's far leaner for sure. I think Hickson's offensive game was more developed in his lone year at NC State, as well. But in a bit of a weak draft, considering that draftniks always put youth and athleticism at a premium, I wouldn't be surprised if he goes at 8. He's still incredibly raw and I sincerely believe is talent is more in line with #26, given those atrocious shooting percentages (he's not unlike present-day Hickson in that respect). But he was hyped as the next KG at one point, so I'd like to hear opinions on this one.

As for Jeff Taylor, I have him at the 34-41 range (early 2nd round, most likely). I'm a bit skeptical about him because he's not a relatively mediocre free throw shooter and doesn't make too many defensive plays, but he's hardy and tough and does the little things that your team needs. He doesn't have the upside many of the players above him will have. But he was once hyped though, and he might go in the late first because of that, but I'm more willing to be on the 2nd.
 
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it would be nice to move landry for a mid 1st round pick to pick up jimmer. if his shot is any good like bibby's we'd have a nice pick and roll player for demarcus.
 
From the two games of his I've seen so far this year, I think Derrick Williams is a better fit at SF than PF. His jump shot looks really smooth and I don't know how much success he'll have posting up against bigger PF in the NBA. If he continues to add range to his shot (and looking at his form I'm pretty sure that he can) he's going to be a nightmare at SF because he'll be a threat from anywhere on the floor. Those post skills will come in handy in isolation situations against other SFs, which are closer in size to the opponents he's facing now. Actually, I'm considering moving him up to #2 or #3 in my rankings mostly because I think he could be a beast of a SF.
I've seen him play once and like his game. Do you think he has the footspeed and lateral quickness to guard 3s though? Because I agree about him posting up against other 4s. I like him though, have to think worst case he's another Channing Frye.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
Not a big fan of CJ Leslie. To be honest I've been disappointed with him. He's been very inconsistent. He forces shots at times. His ballhandling is not very good. He's a very good athlete, and I think he could be a good defender. I'm not sure of his position. Its been reported that he thinks of himself as a SF, but at the moment I don't think he has the skills of a SF. I see him going at the bottom of the first round, somewhere between 20 and 30. Of course if he starts playing better that could all change.

I like Taylor better than you do, and I also think he's a good defender. He's usually assigned to the best player on the other team. I've seen him stay in front of PG's. I have some doubts about other parts of his game, but I do think he's a first round pick.. I have him going somewhere between 17 and 25..
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I thought I would mention a couple of seniors that are flying under the radar a bit and are quietly having very good seasons. One is Nolan Smith of Duke. He's done a great job at the PG position since Irving got injured. He's not shooting the three as well as he did last year, down from 39.2% to 34.1%. But he's been play great otherwise. He's averaging 5.7 APG and 3.1 Turnovers. He's been defending well and has 1.5 steals a game.

My other player is St Marys senior PG Mickey McConnell. He's only 6' tall, but he's very effecient. He reminds me of John Stockton a wee bit in style and size. He's averaging 15.1 PPG and shooting 52% overall. From behind the arc he's shooting a sensational 47.3%, while at the same time he's averaging 6.4 assists per game to go along with just 2.1 turnovers. He handles the ball well and is a very good passer. He's just not spectacular. But he does get the job done.

He's probably a second round pick at best because of his size, but I think he can play in the NBA, and might end up better than some think. In any event, its fun to watch him work.
 

Kingster

Hall of Famer
You have to add Jimmer Fredette to your list. If you like Walkers game, then you'll absolutely love Fredette's. To know that he scored 43 pts against a very good defensive team in San Diego St. is one thing. To see him do it is quite another. He made it look easy. Almost childs play. He uses screens beautifully. Is great running the pick and roll. Great going to the basket with either a pull up jumper, a floater, or finishing with either hand. He has a wicked crossover dribble and can create his own shot.

While he may not be the quickest PG/SG in the league, neither is Steve Nash or Mike Bibby etc. It will be interesting to see how he fares at the combine. He was originally recuited as a SG, but has slowly been developing PG skills. So I wouldn't call him a PG just yet, but he does have a good handle and is a good passer. You do not want to leave him open. Hell, they couldn't stop him period. I wish we had another first round pick in the middle of the round. I'd love to have Fredette.
I've heard about Fredette. Someone I know really likes him. I'll have to check him out, though, like you, my buddy said he's not that quick. That's what attracts me to Kemba. The guy is very quick offensively and defensively and has the skill set to boot.

When I was reading your comments I was thinking the same thing: We need another #1 pick.:D And with the trade deadline getting closer, maybe we can get what we wish for.
 
Fredette should land somewhere in the mid-late first round, I think that's where his stock will solidify. He's not a workout wonder so he'll have to his game do the talking in those pre-draft workouts in order to stave off those guys like Harrison Barnes and Rodney Williams, but there's always going to be skeptics (read Woj's article at Yahoo! Sports).

Nolan Smith...is just ordinary. He's #44-58 in my mock, and I do believe his talents are more in line with #44, but if there's a lot of underclassmen entering the draft for fear of the new CBA then I get the feeling scouts will draft younger and more based on potential...in that case, I think he might fall to #58. Gamewise, he's as steady and solid as they come and is 6'3" to boot, but he's a known commodity and he doesn't excel at any one thing. Game seems more fit for Europe, frankly, where his steadying process will be more useful for EuroLeague teams.
 

hrdboild

Moloch in whom I dream Angels!
Staff member
I've seen him play once and like his game. Do you think he has the footspeed and lateral quickness to guard 3s though? Because I agree about him posting up against other 4s. I like him though, have to think worst case he's another Channing Frye.
I haven't seen him play enough to say one way or another. The games I saw it looked like Arizona was playing a modified zone defense with Williams mostly staying in the paint. He looks pretty good driving to the basket though. He's not exactly quick but he turns the corner well and he's got long strides. Athletically I would think he's capable of guarding on the perimeter anyway.
 

bajaden

Hall of Famer
I haven't seen him play enough to say one way or another. The games I saw it looked like Arizona was playing a modified zone defense with Williams mostly staying in the paint. He looks pretty good driving to the basket though. He's not exactly quick but he turns the corner well and he's got long strides. Athletically I would think he's capable of guarding on the perimeter anyway.
I think Williams is an above average athlete. He's quick off the floor around the basket and very good foot speed running the floor. I'm not sure about his lateral quickness but I feel confident he can most of the SF's in the league. Guys like Kevin Martin, etc. will give him some trouble. You can overthink these things. Quit worrying about what he might not be able to do, and concentrate on the things a player can do. There aren't many perfect players. If your just going to key on the negatives of a player, your going to have a big pile of players in the dumpster.

I look for all the positives, and how much a player impacts his team. Then you have to weigh it against the competition he plays against. Williams is in a good conference. Its down this year, but its still a good conference. There's no doubt that he impacts his team on a regular basis. You can't watch an Arizona game without noticing him. By the same token, Harrison Barnes plays in a very good conference, and he has little to no impact on his team. So I'm certainly goint to rank Williams ahead of Barnes. Barnes may develop into a good player. But if I'm putting money down, I'm going with Williams.

Thats one of the reasons I like Fredette. He not only impacts his team, but he carries his team. Night after night. I don't care if he's not as quick as some other PG's in college. They can't do what he does. The only physical advantage Walker has over Fredette is footspeed. Fredette has a quicker release on his shot, and he's a better shooter from everywhere on the court. Fredette is also 2 inches taller than Walker. Now Walker may become the better overall player, but I'd love to see the two of them go head to head. I'd take either of them on my team just for the fun of watching them play.

The one thing I love about both of them is that they have no conscience and supreme confidence. They both relish the opportunity to have the ball in their hands with the game on the line. No deer in the headlights with either of them.