would i rather have landry than martin? NO. but like others stated it wasnt just martin for landry. if martin/evans wasnt going to work, i would rather get the most out of kevin before he got hurt again. the thing is, i dont think we got the most out of him. id rather have martin than landry, but if we ever use that capspace we got from the trade to get someone better than id be happy.
Is there anyone who would still rather have Landry than Martin?
- Thread starter RookieOfTheDay
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The only one showing growth is Cousins and that's because we have no frame of reference to compare his playing this year to. Everyone else has either stagnated or regressed.
They might take Casspi and next year's first round pick if you threw in Landry or Dalembert. And Orlando may be interested in moving Nelson now. I think acquiring Wallace and Nelson would be worth doing no matter what it takes short of involving Evans or Cousins. The more I watch this team, the more I believe that everyone other than Evans and Cousins is totally tradeable. Cousins at C, Tyreke at SG, Nelson at PG, and Wallace at SF would make a pretty good team. The wouldn't make the playofs this year, as that's near mathematically impossible with the hole The Kings are in, but they'd have a great shot at being a playoff team next year and for a few years after that.
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I had supported this trade then. Not because I dislike Martin. Quite the contrary. I really liked all the effort Martin had put in to become one of the best scorers in the league. In particular, I was really impressed when he said he spoke about Rip Hamilton's tape, and how he learnt moving without the ball from it. And then all that effort showed on the court. Sure, we all wanted him to play better defense and what not. But he was still our best player, a hard worker and a decent bargain.
The main reason I supported the trade was that I liked Landry. I felt he shall bring a toughness to our front line, which, with Hawes, was very soft (though the Brockness monster helped there). I also felt that a second ball handler in our backcourt would be helpful with Reke, and that was one of Kevin's limitations. Increased minutes for Beno/Cisco, shall partly compensate loss of Kevin. That was my theory at least.
In hindsight, it's turning out to be a bad trade for us. Rick usually has a history of getting more out of his players. So, it's quite possible that had the trade not gone down, Martin would not be as attractive, and Landry would be looking very good. Right now though, it seems that if Rockets want, they can get much more for Martin than Landry.
Plus, I'm not too enthused about the cap space that we shall get. We're not getting some A list FA. We have to look at the draft to get our franchise player(s). Whether we already have them (in Reke and DC), or shall get one in the draft, with one or both of these guys taking the rung below, time shall tell. But we won't get that player as a FA. We can use the space to sign some solid vet, but the MLE would have been adequate for that.
The only advantage I could see for our space is if the new CBA is much tougher. Then, as one of the teams with cap space, we might be able to get some better FAs, or let other teams dump some salary to save tax, and reward us with picks (like OKC has done over the last few years).
The main reason I supported the trade was that I liked Landry. I felt he shall bring a toughness to our front line, which, with Hawes, was very soft (though the Brockness monster helped there). I also felt that a second ball handler in our backcourt would be helpful with Reke, and that was one of Kevin's limitations. Increased minutes for Beno/Cisco, shall partly compensate loss of Kevin. That was my theory at least.
In hindsight, it's turning out to be a bad trade for us. Rick usually has a history of getting more out of his players. So, it's quite possible that had the trade not gone down, Martin would not be as attractive, and Landry would be looking very good. Right now though, it seems that if Rockets want, they can get much more for Martin than Landry.
Plus, I'm not too enthused about the cap space that we shall get. We're not getting some A list FA. We have to look at the draft to get our franchise player(s). Whether we already have them (in Reke and DC), or shall get one in the draft, with one or both of these guys taking the rung below, time shall tell. But we won't get that player as a FA. We can use the space to sign some solid vet, but the MLE would have been adequate for that.
The only advantage I could see for our space is if the new CBA is much tougher. Then, as one of the teams with cap space, we might be able to get some better FAs, or let other teams dump some salary to save tax, and reward us with picks (like OKC has done over the last few years).
Well, look at who was available and the other trades last year. What was fair market value? Jamison was traded for expirings. Caron Butler (a recent all star) & Haywood were traded for Josh Howard and expiring contracts. Landry was averaging 16 & 5 on 55% shooting in 28 minutes/game. His struggles here likely have as much to do with coaching than anything else. But again, knowing we did need to trade him last season and looking at what was available, what SHOULD we have gotten. Please be specific.
Landry and cap relief probably was good value for a 39% shooter (42% the year before) who plays no defense and played an average of 50-60 games the last 3 seasons for a 20 win team.
Landry and cap relief probably was good value for a 39% shooter (42% the year before) who plays no defense and played an average of 50-60 games the last 3 seasons for a 20 win team.
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I'm going to be in the minority here. I'd rather have Martin. He is exactly what we need right now. We need a guy who can flat out score and get to the line. That's what he does best. I don't think we gave it enough time last year. Everybody fell in love with Reke and Martin became expendable.
Also, regarding the cap space, it doesn't really matter to me because we NEVER seem to do anything with cap space anyway.
Also, regarding the cap space, it doesn't really matter to me because we NEVER seem to do anything with cap space anyway.
From the responses in this thread, this minority of yours may not be as small as you think. Back when the trade happened, the board had been flooded by the opinion that Tyreke and Kevin couldn't play well together -- all through the time that Martin sat through his injury -- and when we didn't put it together immediately when he came back it was taken as a confirmation of that theory. So the trade was pretty roundly cheered at the time.
Of course, Martin didn't regain form in Houston last year either, but this year he's looking a lot like the Martin of old. It seems that people are starting to recognize that, and with Landry's horrid first quarter to the season it looks like opinion is starting to lean back the other way on the trade. We'll never know, but I agree with you (despite common assertions to the contrary) that a Martin-type player would be a good backcourt pairing with Tyreke. Whether Martin could have been happy being second fiddle in the backcourt, I don't know.
Of course, Martin didn't regain form in Houston last year either, but this year he's looking a lot like the Martin of old. It seems that people are starting to recognize that, and with Landry's horrid first quarter to the season it looks like opinion is starting to lean back the other way on the trade. We'll never know, but I agree with you (despite common assertions to the contrary) that a Martin-type player would be a good backcourt pairing with Tyreke. Whether Martin could have been happy being second fiddle in the backcourt, I don't know.
No cap space. Our big free agent signings for four years in a row were MLE signings. Shareef 2005, Salmons 2006, Mikki 2007, Beno 2008. In 2009 we finally stood pat and stayed away from the MLE, but didn't have any cap space. As Brick said, last year was the first year since the start of the glory days that we had cap room.
Disagree. How long did we wait to see what Martin had to offer? How long have we had Landry? Landry will never be the player Martin was but he will never cost as much either. Martin was good. Martin had to go to please me. We are obviously not done yet, with that trade or rebuilding or learning what Landry will offer. Sit back and have a cup of tea.
I really miss Martin. I was a fan of his since we drafted him, and I was sad to see him go. I went to a game the same night he got traded, his last as a King. Sad day. I still follow all of his games though. And he would be nice beside Reke. But I do think we could have gotten more.
At least he's on a better team now.
At least he's on a better team now.
We are in a better position for the future than they are. Their franchise player is probably done and the rest of their payers, while all nice pieces are not gamechangers like Yao was. Meanwhile we have two potential franchise stars and youngsters along with another major piece coming next year in the draft.
If anything, the Rockets are currently on a trajectory like we were after Webber was traded.
If anything, the Rockets are currently on a trajectory like we were after Webber was traded.
kings fans smh
Martin is a one dimensional player. He and Reke did not work together, and it forced Reke to play PG. The problem is the Kings gave up the best player in that deal and got very little out of it. Geoff had the piece to play hardball with and it looks like management simply got outworked.
Martin is a one dimensional player. He and Reke did not work together, and it forced Reke to play PG. The problem is the Kings gave up the best player in that deal and got very little out of it. Geoff had the piece to play hardball with and it looks like management simply got outworked.