Fisher to the Heat?

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Peter_Gibbons

Starter
#31
#31
Vlade4GM said:
I never said it wasn't in the minority. If people repeat something enough about someone, it eventually becomes the "truth," and that's Derek Fisher. I've heard everything people have had to say about Fisher and often I think there's people that just simply don't really objectively evaluate Fisher both on and off the court. He's fool's gold, everything is reputation with Fisher. I don't doubt many people respect him as a person, but I don't see why that makes him some great leader. He has a hugely overinflated ego, he lacks humility, he gets special treatment from the refs, he's not as loyal as people give him credit for, he can't finish at the basket, he's a matador defensively, and he takes stupid shots. If he didn't get the privelage of riding the coattails of Kobe, Shaq, and Phil, I don't think he'd even be in the league right now. The clutch moniker he has gotten has a lot to do with .4 (which is just one play) and the reputation he's gained because of that. Once you have a reputation for being clutch, all your failures and disappearing acts are disregarded, and your successes are singled out in order to validate a pre-conceived belief. And that's easier for a role players like Fisher to pull off since he isn't under as big of a microscope as someone like Kobe is.
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I agree that he is overrated in terms of how nice and loyal he is. He actually just plays to whoever is hot. When it was shaq's team, he kissed shaq's *** and then quickly turned to kobe. And a lot of the "class act" image that he puts up in interviews is fake as if you get to see the lakers every game, you notice many lil things that he does.

But he is more clutch than kobe when it comes to hitting big shots in the playoffs. Thats a fact. He is not going to be a big contributor through the reg season other than bringing the ball up court.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#32
#32
est.1999 said:
Artest can't guard lebron. Kobe can't even sniff a chance at guarding wade. People keep saying how is Miami going to match up with the lakers. Well how are the lakers supposed to match up with Miami?

Oh and nice little cheap shot, gargy. Can't wait til cousins rips the lakers a new one.
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Actually I am not sure on those. During his Kings years Artest caused LeBron (and Melo) about as much trouble as I've seen any defender cause them, because they are power offenisve players, and he can't be overpowered. Joe Johnson too. And Kobe may not deserve his last 4 or 5 all defense team nods, but when he is inspired he can be very good. At the 2/3 the Lakers cleary have the best shot of anybody defensively, and up front they have a clear advantage. Doesn't mena I think they would win a series, especially not wiht Kobe due to start slipping here any season now, but it does mean that if you told me the Lakers beat the Heat in a series it wouldn't surprise me at all. They have the right defensive pieces.
 
est.1999

est.1999

Starter
#33
#33
Artests' defense has really slipped the last few years though. And I'm not sure of it's because his physical gifts are declining or if it's the fact that he still has the "I'm a superstar on offense" mentality and "I'm not gonna concentrate on the defensive side as much". People forget that gasol was an impressive player at Memphis but couldn't really be a dominant force until he was paired up with Kobe. So I can see bosh's game really elevating once paired with these two and I just don't see how the lakers can manage to contain them. But like you said, if the lakers were to beat the heat I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be angry as s*** but not surprised ;)
 
SacKings7

SacKings7

Starter
#34
#34
est.1999 said:
Artest can't guard lebron. Kobe can't even sniff a chance at guarding wade. People keep saying how is Miami going to match up with the lakers. Well how are the lakers supposed to match up with Miami?

Oh and nice little cheap shot, gargy. Can't wait til cousins rips the lakers a new one.
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I agree with you that Artest can't guard LeBron. Hell, who can? But Artest and Kobe are better defenders than LeBron and Wade are. Kobe and Artest are at least in the same breath as LeBron and Wade. How are Gasol and Bynum even close to the same breath as Bosh and ??. Unless that ?? is Dwight Howard, I don't think there's anything to argue about
 
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M

mac

All-Star
#35
#35
Hmm I'd like both the Lakers and Heat to lose ... And the Celtics. As long as neither of those teams win the championship I'd be happy.
 
Uncia03

Uncia03

Starter
#36
#36
SacKings7 said:
But Artest and Kobe are better defenders than LeBron and Wade are.
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You must not watch enough of LeBron and Wade.
When healthy both LeBron and Wade are hands-down the best defenders at their position. And the fact that they'll now not have to carry all the scoring load night-in and night-out means that they'll be able to devote even more energy on the defensive end.

All the Heat have to do is find a big-man with post defense. This big-man can average 1 point a game and be a perfect fit if he can defend the post. If they get that defensive big, then the Heat will be the best defensive team in the league, and they will be winning games due to their defense, not their offense.
 
jalfa

jalfa

Starter
#37
#37
Gargamel said:
Remember that the league was also expecting MIA to overrun Detroit in 2005 after they got Shaq and it didn't happen until Year 2.
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Might have had something to do with the fact that Wade got hurt in the ECF, though. However, those Heat had a real team, whereas the Heat from today basically don't have anything outside of three players, so no, nobody should expect them to do all that much in next year's playoffs already.
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#40
#40
SacKings7 said:
I agree with you that Artest can't guard LeBron. Hell, who can? But Artest and Kobe are better defenders than LeBron and Wade are. Kobe and Artest are at least in the same breath as LeBron and Wade. How are Gasol and Bynum even close to the same breath as Bosh and ??. Unless that ?? is Dwight Howard, I don't think there's anything to argue about
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Let's see Bynum on the floor in May and June first. Otherwise, it's Bosh vs. Pau, and that's a wash.
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#41
#41
est.1999 said:
Artests' defense has really slipped the last few years though. And I'm not sure of it's because his physical gifts are declining or if it's the fact that he still has the "I'm a superstar on offense" mentality and "I'm not gonna concentrate on the defensive side as much". People forget that gasol was an impressive player at Memphis but couldn't really be a dominant force until he was paired up with Kobe. So I can see bosh's game really elevating once paired with these two and I just don't see how the lakers can manage to contain them. But like you said, if the lakers were to beat the heat I wouldn't be surprised. I'd be angry as s*** but not surprised ;)
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Artest's defense is still good enough. He did a rather good job on the two noted players he faced in the 4 series.

Gasol is a complementary player by nature and it's a 2 man dynamic in LA. Blending 3 superstars together will actually be tricky if they're not painfully unselfish. I have a hard time buying the Bron as Magic hypo lasting beyond a few months. He's ball dominant and so is Wade. The ball is going more to Miller and Bosh at the expense of Bron scoring at will like he's capable of? Mm mm. Pressure is mainly on him, he and Wade will be taking the bulk of the shots as the season draws closer to playoff time.
 
Gargamel

Gargamel

Starter
#42
#42
Vlade4GM said:
If he didn't get the privelage of riding the coattails of Kobe, Shaq, and Phil, I don't think he'd even be in the league right now. The clutch moniker he has gotten has a lot to do with .4 (which is just one play) and the reputation he's gained because of that. Once you have a reputation for being clutch, all your failures and disappearing acts are disregarded, and your successes are singled ou
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He hit a 3 that won a game in the Utah series, but I can't remember his previous game winner before that. It's been awhile. He hit the 3s in Gm4 of the 09 Finals at ORL too. He has a tendency to hit more "timely shots" in sequences where the score is tight than he hits game winners, and I mean a LOT of timely shots. His rep for that much is not BS. Teams have a tendency to leave him open, which, yes, has a little something to do w/ having Shaq, Kobe, GP/KM and Gasol as teammates. He also has the ego, juevos, etc, etc to take those shots. I will forever think he got that open path at Boston because the Celtics didn't expect him to be taking that chance at that point in a game.

So, a few converging factors make Fish's reputation. Shannon Brown isn't going to step up to take some of the shots he does, example given. I realize Derek Fisher has some glaring faults, but I don't really think it's a stretch to call him a clutch player if you're of the opinion that you're not defined as clutch only in the last seconds of games. If that were true, people would be touting Vince Carter much more than they do, because he has hit numerous game winners.
 
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B

Boogie-havoc

Bench
#47
#47
Oh btw theres also Juwan Howard, and also Dexter Pittman whos a 2nd round pick Center.. thats alot of bodys :D

They just need another swingman I think if they can afford it that is, and they're set.
 
Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#51
#51
Čarolija said:
I though I would never say this but my hatered of LeMe has reached never before seen heights. After all the prima donna stuff that is known as "The Decision" I hope LeBron NEVER wins an NBA ring in his lifetime.
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No matter how many rings Lebron wins I will always look at players like Stockton and Malone with greater admiration.
 
UKRAINE

UKRAINE

G-League
#53
#53
Kings Faithful said:
I know it sounds like heresy, but I'll be rooting for the Lakers to beat the Lebron and the Heat in the finals if it comes down to it.
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Kings fans cannot root for the Lakers and Dodgers. It is in the Kings Constitution and if it is in the Constitution, we ought to abide by it and honor it.
 
Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#54
#54
Warhawk said:
Stockton, anyways. Not so much Malone.
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What Malone did was totally different and completely acceptable in my book. Malone stayed for 18 seasons with the same team and only decided to move in the last year of his career in order to get the final piece to his legacy, which he didn't. Malone's legacy is and will be far greater than lebrons, no matter how many rings he wins IMO.
 
Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#55
#55
UKRAINE said:
Kings fans cannot root for the Lakers and Dodgers. It is in the Kings Constitution and if it is in the Constitution, we ought to abide by it and honor it.
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I'm not so much rooting for the lakers as I am NOT rooting for the Heat... you catch my drift? I would be much happier if neither of them made the finals.
 
Warhawk

Warhawk

Give blood and save a life!
Staff member
#57
#57
Kings Faithful said:
What Malone did was totally different and completely acceptable in my book. Malone stayed for 18 seasons with the same team and only decided to move in the last year of his career in order to get the final piece to his legacy, which he didn't. Malone's legacy is and will be far greater than lebrons, no matter how many rings he wins IMO.
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His "legacy" was already secure. And I agree it was a matter of degree, but still strikes me the same way (jumping teams to a title "favorite" in order to get one on someone's coattails).
 
Telemachus

Telemachus

Starter
#59
#59
Warhawk said:
His "legacy" was already secure. And I agree it was a matter of degree, but still strikes me the same way (jumping teams to a title "favorite" in order to get one on someone's coattails).
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It doesn't bother me when a great player does that on the downside of their careers. Players like Malone, Payton, Barkley, etc. were all used to carrying their teams and spent most of their time in the playoffs. When they start fading and can no longer carry a team, I think most of them would rather go player with a team that has a chance to win. They just can stand the idea of being on a losing team (been winners most of their lives).

It is just not something you usually see from a player in his prime (or just entering his prime).
 
S

Superman

All-Star
#60
#60
UKRAINE said:
Kings fans cannot root for the Lakers and Dodgers. It is in the Kings Constitution and if it is in the Constitution, we ought to abide by it and honor it.
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Have to disagree. I'm a misplaced Kings fan in SoCal, and as such, I like to see the Dodgers do well. I'm an Angels fan first and foremost, though. Don't like the A's or the Giants.
 
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