Draft Combine Measurements !!!!

[bajaden]

Christmas time for draft junkies. Not a lot of surprises this year on the Beasley is only 6'7" scale - but a few takeaways:

- Ed Davis has a lot better size than most of us thought...he's slightly taller than Horford. But for as skinny as he is, why the high body fat? Doesn't make sense...
- Cole Aldrich, as mentioned, is 100% undersized for the center position. While his wingspan makes up for lost height, his lack of athleticism, lateral quickness, et al, give me and many others pause about his value as a top 10 pick (roleplayer off the bench on a good team? you bet, and he'll be a great asset in that regard)
- Evan Turner doesn't possess a good wingspan or great size for the 3. Not a big deal, as he'll play the 2, but if he can't defend the perimeter in the NBA, critics might point to his lack of length
- Ekpe Udoh and Favors have great size for the 4
- Wes Johnson is a perfect 3, length/height-wise
- Alabi isn't a beastly 7'2", but still possesses good size at his actual 7'
- JaMarcus, whoops, DeMarcus Cousins and Pittman are FAT

Again, a pretty honest measurement cycle this year - in terms of height, Davis' stock rose the most IMO while Aldrich's sunk.

Looking forward to the next couple of weeks to come. The benefit of the Kings having the #5 is, at this point, we really have no clue as to who they are going to take.

Evan Turner has always been projected as a SG. And his case, wingspan doesn't matter much. He's not projected as a shotblocker. And there are some players that are so skilled, none of the other stuff matters. And he's one of them.

If you saw Cousins play this year or saw him or Pittman at the combine, I don't think you would call them fat. Pittman looked a lot slimmer to me and quicker. There's no way in hell that he weighed 300 pounds. I also thought Cousins looked in pretty good shape. Certainly not fat, unless you have another definition of fat. There is a difference between being fat and not being in top shape.

 

[sc3252]

They pretty much all wear platforms for the combine, I think there were only 8 out of 53 who wore shoes less than 1.25" tall (I measured my basketball shoes, they're only +7/8", but today Ed Davis was the ONLY guy to wear shoes under 1"). It works like this:

Sheron Collins, 5'10.25" barefoot.
Sheron Collins, 5'11.75" in extra tall shoes
Sheron Collins, official NBA height, 6'0".

Varnado goes from 6'8.25" to 6'10" or 6'11", Favors goes from 6'8.75" to 6'11", Vasquez goes from 6'5" to 6'7", etc. Then the NBA can make us all ooh and aah about how gigantic their players are.

Exactly, they should just use bare feet for everything. It would make comparing players so much easier if they did that. One example of tricking fans is when I was looking up Michael Beasley, they say he is 6-10, but is really not even 6-8, which is ridiculous.

 

[bajaden]

I personally want him because his first name's Hassan.

Honestly, there's always that one player who we all fall in love with as fans before the draft that we don't pick and as a result everyone gets angry (Rubio, John Wallace)

You know I agree with this. There's always that one player, and lets call him the mystery player that people attach their fantasy to. And its easier with a fantasy player, because less is known about him as opposed to most of the other players, so no one can dispute it. People will pick out the parts they like, and ignore the parts they don't like.

Last year the mystery player was Rubio. Less was known about him on a personal basis because he played in europe. So unless you were fortunate enough to catch him in the olympics or in a game broadcast on NBA TV, you were stuck with the opinions of the pundits, internet draft boards, and youtube. Not the best way to come to judgement on a player. But in his case, there wasn't much else. So people fell in love with an idea. A dream. And Rubio represented that dream. How much reality was contained in that dream, well, we still don't know do we? None of this is Rubio's fault and he may still prove to be everything he was projected to be. Or not. In his case. To be continued.....

Now the mystery player of the moment is Whiteside. People that probably never seen him play are comparing him to Howard. Thats about as far from reality as you can get. A better comparison might be Macus Camby. And if he ends up as good as Camby, I would say thats pretty good. He may even be a new improved version of Camby someday.

I don't want to pick on this kid. As I've said before. I've got no dog in this hunt. If I thought the kid could be everything people want him to be, I'd say so. I'd love for him to succeed. I don't just make up things to make a player look bad. But when I see him look lost on the floor on the offensive end, I don't know what else to say but that the kid still doesn't know the game of basketball. And if he's lost at the college level, its not going to get any better at the NBA level. But don't let me pop anyone's balloon.

Let me give you another example of who he can become. Jerome James! There's a guy that had talent. But once he had the money in the bank, it was a lot easier to sit at the end of the bench and collect it, than bust his butt out on the floor. Thats the other side of the coin.

 

[Sptsjunkie]

Evan Turner has always been projected as a SG. And his case, wingspan doesn't matter much. He's not projected as a shotblocker. And there are some players that are so skilled, none of the other stuff matters. And he's one of them.

In fact Turner has nearly the exact same measurements that Brandon Roy had. I wouldn't be too concerned.

 

[bench_blob]

John Wall is going to have a Nate Robinson 43" plus vert. crazy

Nope, Wall standing vert "only" 30 inches. Turner was 4 inches higher. But still looks SO impressive in agility and sprint drills. Wall gets so high over the rim because of wingspan and super duper long arms.

If you get ESPN U, the combines were televised today and yesterday. Also on NBA TV.

 

[bajaden]

I haven't really watched him much, but he is a huge winner as far as measurements go. 6'10.5" barefoot (NBA 7' or 7'1"), longest wingspan by a full inch (7'7"), a tied-for-best 9.5" reach, an admirable 5.5% body fat, the guy was so confident he skipped the platforms and wore shoes a mere 1" tall.

(Edit: okay, further research on this guy shows some potential, but also that he could easily become a cross between Shawn Bradley and Yinka Dare. Pity.)

N'Diaye came out looking pretty good, too, as did Alabi, Favors and Sanders.

That Pittman and Cousins are both a lot fatter than Tiny Gallon probably qualifies them as losers. I'd say that Udoh is too, for his surprisingly poor reach. And Parakhouski, whose wingspan is the same as 6'4.75" Marquis Blakeley, gets the annual "t-rex arms" award; runners-up: Ed Davis and Craig Brackins.

Now to find out who can jump.

I don't think having a higher body fat content necessarily makes you fat, does it? I don't know, I always pictured a guy with a big gut as fat. At least from a visual sense. Anyway, from a visual sense, neither Pittman or Cousins looked fat. For whatever the hell thats worth.

As far as the measurements and such go. To me, unless there's some dramatic shocker, like a player that was thought to be 6'10" turns out to be 6'8", I don't put a ton of value on it. I mean I'm not surprised that players listed at 6'10" are 6'8.5" in their bare feet. This seems to be the standard. So as long as the grade scale applies to just about everyone, I don't think it matters much. I don't think that Varnado is suddenly not going to be able to block shots because he's been exposed as being shorter than listed. Same for Udoh. I place more value on what I've seen from them on the floor.

 

[Vlade4GM]

I thought he might be around 6'9" without shoes, so he was close. But I don't think having a 7'4" plus wingspan is that disappointing. His reach is a little shorter than I would have liked, but remember he's got pretty good hops. I would bet you every dollar I own that he would win a jump ball with Monroe. He was a great shotblocker in college. Like Varnado he just has those instincts that can't be taught. Would I have prefered him to be a little taller and have a little more reach? Sure! But we live in an imperfect world.

I would have been more concerned if Parakhouski had come in at 6'9" w/out shoes. He doesn't have the hops of some of the others, so he can't afford to be giving away inches.

The height is not as big of an issue to me as his reach. I was watching his interview (and admittedly this is just the eyeball test) and he looks to have a long head, so perhaps he doesn't have that good of shoulder height. Obviously his athleticism helps, but I wouldn't call him an elite athlete. I think he can still be a good shot blocker, but it hurts him a bit. I would never have guessed Patrick Patterson would have a longer reach than him, it's only about a quarter inch longer, but still, very surprising.

 

[fnordius]

Exactly, they should just use bare feet for everything. It would make comparing players so much easier if they did that. One example of tricking fans is when I was looking up Michael Beasley, they say he is 6-10, but is really not even 6-8, which is ridiculous.

Same with Kevin Love, officially 6'10", but 6'7.75" barefoot. He wore 1.75" shoes to the combine.

Beasley measured 6'7", 6'8.25" in shoes. How they rounded that up to 6'10" I still cannot figure out. Measured him again, with 2.25" or 2.5" shoes?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Same with Kevin Love, officially 6'10", but 6'7.75" barefoot. He wore 1.75" shoes to the combine.

Beasley measured 6'7", 6'8.25" in shoes. How they rounded that up to 6'10" I still cannot figure out. Measured him again, with 2.25" or 2.5" shoes?

I think they just chose to adopt his college listed height instead.

 

[fnordius]

I don't think that Varnado is suddenly not going to be able to block shots because he's been exposed as being shorter than listed. Same for Udoh. I place more value on what I've seen from them on the floor.

True, but those guys are about to face taller players than they ever have before. The top shotblockers in college are sometimes as short as 6'5.5" barefoot (e.g., Stephane Lasme, NCAA shotblocker extrordinaire, now out of the NBA and playing in Israel), but of the top 10 in the NBA last year, 1 was 6'9", 2 were 6'10", and the rest were 6'11"-7'1". Now, those are official NBA heights, so you can safely knock off about 1.75" on average. Still, if you ignore the freakish Josh Smith for a moment, the other 9 of the top 10 average out to around 6'9.5" barefoot.

I'm not saying that a 6'8" guy can't be a good shotblocker in the NBA, but he'd better have pretty long arms and/or exceptional hops/reflexes to keep it up after college.

 

[Bricklayer]

Have they had the hand measurements in previous years? That's kind of getting silly given they can't even get guys to do the important stuff (should work mandatory appearances etc. into the new CBA). On the other hand )other hand, get it? ) compare Pittman's big ole meaty paws to Monroe, and you have a fresh Monroe issue.

 

[fnordius]

Have they had the hand measurements in previous years? That's kind of getting silly given they can't even get guys to do the important stuff (should work mandatory appearances etc. into the new CBA). On the other hand )other hand, get it? ) compare Pittman's big ole meaty paws to Monroe, and you have a fresh Monroe issue.

I've never seen it before, but I was surprised to see it now.

Okay, so Brackins has gigantic hands. Is that supposed to make him good?

 

[Tetsujin]

Have they had the hand measurements in previous years? That's kind of getting silly given they can't even get guys to do the important stuff (should work mandatory appearances etc. into the new CBA). On the other hand )other hand, get it? ) compare Pittman's big ole meaty paws to Monroe, and you have a fresh Monroe issue.

I know that the NFL's been doing hand measurements for years now. Not so sure about the NBA

 

[Vlade4GM]

This is the first year I've ever noticed it. It doesn't do Favors any favors.

 

[fnordius]

Not saying you are lying, but are these facts or assumptions from your observations?

Rumors that Whiteside is not all that bright are being circulated by basketball sites, just like rumors that Cousins might be emotionally unstable. Disregard them if you like, or call them terrible journalism, but I suspect that both rumors have an element of truth to them.

 

[Peter_Gibbons]

Rumors that Whiteside is not all that bright are being circulated by basketball sites, just like rumors that Cousins might be emotionally unstable. Disregard them if you like, or call them terrible journalism, but I suspect that both rumors have an element of truth to them.

I haven't seen anything about Whiteside so I'm asking where you guys saw the articles. I would like to read up on them and make a decision then.

 

[Sparky6string]

Nope, Wall standing vert "only" 30 inches. Turner was 4 inches higher.

Are these figures online? Not seeing them at Draft Express.

 

[fnordius]

I haven't seen anything about Whiteside so I'm asking where you guys saw the articles. I would like to read up on them and make a decision then.

Try his page on draftexpress, I'm pretty sure they go into it.

 

[Sparky6string]

Are the agility, bench, max vert etc results posted online anywhere?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Are the agility, bench, max vert etc results posted online anywhere?

I read somewhere (I forget where, but it could've been DX's twitter) that they may take up to a week to come out.

 

[bajaden]

I've never seen it before, but I was surprised to see it now.

Okay, so Brackins has gigantic hands. Is that supposed to make him good?

I think as a second round pick, Brackins is a good value. Not saying he's at the top of my second round picks, but we could do a lot worse.

 

[bajaden]

Are the agility, bench, max vert etc results posted online anywhere?

They'll be on DX. Probably next week some time. For some reason they seem to take longer. I know they have the players run some of the drills more than once. So its possible that they post the average of the two, which would take more time to do. No reason for the vertical though, unless they just release them all at the same time.

 

[Jaylee209]

link

Not sure how reliable this is...

Wall has a supposed 43 inch vert.

 

[Bricklayer]

link

Not sure how reliable this is...

Wall has a supposed 43 inch vert.

Those no steps always surprise me -- I had a 28" no step in college, and I never would have listed leaping ability as one of my athletic strengths. When you see a guy like Wall with a 30" no step, and can see how he can fly out there, makes you wonder is he trying? Bad technique?

 

[Vlade4GM]

Those no steps always surprise me -- I had a 28" no step in college, and I never would have listed leaping ability as one of my athletic strengths. When you see a guy like Wall with a 30" no step, and can see how he can fly out there, makes you wonder is he trying? Bad technique?

It could just be that he's a lot better with a running start.

 

[Jaylee209]

Some vert results from Chad Ford link

GUess Wall's vert were exaggerated...

 

[=LarryLegend=]

I knew wall has a crazy 43" vert.

 

[bajaden]

Wow! Expect Babbitt to climb up the boards. All year long people have been saying that he's a hell of a player but he's not very athletic. Wrong! Impressive numbers for him. I thought all year long that he was a better athlete than people were saying, but if these numbers are correct, this kid could end up in the lottery. Because he's a hell of a player. He just had the misfortune to play for a small school.

 

[King-Da-Yah]

Wall is more agilic then Rose... Nice very nice. I think he is a little taller too. Babbit surprised me as well, the narrators of the draft combine seemed pretty high on him. Does anyone know if there will be any more televised workouts???

 

[Vlade4GM]

Wow! Expect Babbitt to climb up the boards. All year long people have been saying that he's a hell of a player but he's not very athletic. Wrong! Impressive numbers for him. I thought all year long that he was a better athlete than people were saying, but if these numbers are correct, this kid could end up in the lottery. Because he's a hell of a player. He just had the misfortune to play for a small school.

He's very skilled, but I trust the eye test more than I trust these athletic tests. Still, that's very impressive and surprising.