Bosh asks fans where he should go

[bajaden]

Yeah I agree with you pdx, I think that's usually how it works. The player decides where he'd like to go, and then usually asks the team to work on a S&T. At least that's how I always thought it worked.

Sorry to nitpick bajaden, but I couldn't help but notice you made a list of relevant PF's and didn't even include the 2 best PF's of the past decade, Duncan and Garnett

For the record, their stats:

Duncan: 17.9 PPG - 10.1 RPG - 1.5BPG - 12 years

Garnett: 14.3 PPG - 7.3 RPG - 0.8 BPG - 14 years

Thanks for the list btw, I didn't realize Thompson's numbers actually compared pretty decent to the rest of the league

I intentionally left them out. Duncan has been playing center for quite a while now, and Garnett isn't the same player he was before. So I didn't think either one of them would be revelant. I'm not sure Brand is to be truthful.

As far as who approaches who first in the Bosh thing. I could care less. I'm talking about a premise, and people want to argue over protocol. Lets take PDX's idea of how it might work. Lets say that Bosh decides he wants to go play for the Knicks. So now you have a team he wants to play for and they certainly have the cap space to absorb salary. So Bosh would be happy. But Toronto also needs to be happy or whats the point of doing the deal. Players that will be under contract after this season ends are, Eddy Curry (11 mil), Gallinari (3.3 mil), Chandler (2.1 mil), and Toney Douglas (1 mil). Toronto has stated that they would like a young PF in return. I don't see one there. Both Gallinari and Chandler have the right kind of salary Toronto is looking for, but besides not PF's, both are considered part of the Knicks future.

So tell me. How do you get this trade done. Just because Bosh picks a team he likes, doesn't mean that team will have a player Toronto likes. And if they don't like the player, then there's no incentive for Toronto to do the deal.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

So tell me. How do you get this trade done. Just because Bosh picks a team he likes, doesn't mean that team will have a player Toronto likes. And if they don't like the player, then there's no incentive for Toronto to do the deal.

So then Bosh leaves them empty handed. If he can make more in endorsements in NY and that is his top priority he will leave the extra year and salary difference on the table. Maybe NY throws in a draft pick or two down the road since matching salaries isn't an issue.

Now if this were a different year and there weren't a bunch of teams with money we would be in great position to make a deal with Hawes or Thompson. Or perhaps NY can actually land LeBron, that could change things too because then Bosh would be second fiddle, even if he went to the Nets and the endorsement deals might fizzle.

Obviously its worth making our play, but we have a major uphill battle. If all else fails let's just save the money for a year and see what we can do.

 

[est.1999]

If we got bosh for landry or Thompson, and we also had a choice to pick anyone from the draft, would you rather have evans turner and bosh or Evans cousins and bosh?

 

[bajaden]

So then Bosh leaves them empty handed. If he can make more in endorsements in NY and that is his top priority he will leave the extra year and salary difference on the table. Maybe NY throws in a draft pick or two down the road since matching salaries isn't an issue.

Now if this were a different year and there weren't a bunch of teams with money we would be in great position to make a deal with Hawes or Thompson. Or perhaps NY can actually land LeBron, that could change things too because then Bosh would be second fiddle, even if he went to the Nets and the endorsement deals might fizzle.

Obviously its worth making our play, but we have a major uphill battle. If all else fails let's just save the money for a year and see what we can do.

Your right! Thats certainly an option for Bosh. But the bottom line is that he's still throwing 20 mil away if he just decides to walk. Any money he could have made with endorsements, he could still make if he does a sign and trade. Possibly not quite as much as if he signed in New York, but he would still make a ton of money. Its sort of like, do I take my social security at 63, or wait till I'm 66 and get full retirement. If you wait till your 66, the question is, will you live long enough to make up for all the money you would have made, had you retired three years earlier.

Sometimes a bird in hand is, well you know the saying. Look, I really doubt that there's much chance of us landing Bosh. And I've stated before that I personally don't think Bosh is worth a max contract. And thats what its going to take to aquire him. It makes for a nice debate though..

 

[Prince_XY]

So because Cuban had the luxury of having a superstar (which the Kings didn't have) and the ability to just toss money down an endless pit (which the Kings couldn't do), Dallas/Cuban is somehow more shrewd than the Kings?

Are you saying that refusing to pay Steve Nash almost entirely for financial considerations, and then a few weeks later throwing $70 million at Erick Dampier is also a shrewd move? Sure, you could make the argument that Nash was poor defensively and you don't want to throw a bunch of money at an old PG on the wrong side of 30, but then that makes the Jason Kidd trade and extension even more stupid.

I'll buy the argument that Petrie made a lot of lateral moves and wasted one of the only assets we did have each offseason (MLE), but lets not pretend that both organizations operate under the same considerations and have the same resources.

Ask yourself.

After Cuban let Steve Nash go and the Mavericks made some needed adjustments in the roster ( one of which was the case of Dampier as you pointed out ), they managed in a few years to reached the NBA FINALS.

What does that tell you?

 

[est.1999]

Webber got hurt. Nowitski didn't. Only difference.

 

[Prince_XY]

...
...
...
Thompson: 12.5 PPG - 8.5 RPG - 1.0 BPG - 2 years in the league


I may have missed a couple, but this is the majority of the main PF's. Kind of funny. Thompson's stats don't look that bad when you look at the overall picture, and consider that he's only been in the league 2 years. If he can improve by 2.5 points, and 1.5 rebounds a game, and play better defense, I'll be happy by the end of his third year.

This post is awesome.

Knowing Thompson is a hardworking kid, there is only one way for him - UP.

I wonder how Thompson's stats compares with the first 2 years of NBA play against those so-called top power forwards. The last time I checked, I think Thompson even have a better FG% than Bosh's first 2 years in the NBA.

And how about Boozer's first 2 years?

 

[est.1999]

You stat people need to stop. Even if Thompson had the same averages as bosh which will never happen ever. He still doesn't have the impact as the top PF's in this league.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

Ask yourself.

After Cuban let Steve Nash go and the Mavericks made some needed adjustments in the roster ( one of which was the case of Dampier as you pointed out ), they managed in a few years to reached the NBA FINALS.

What does that tell you?

Erick Dampier was not the reason they made the NBA Finals. Dampier played his part, but he only averaged 23mpg and was part of a platoon with Diop. They made the NBA Finals because they had a ridiculously deep team with a superstar playing out of his mind right at the point when the West was in a transition phase. They had a ridiculously deep team because Mark Cuban could afford to churn out a bunch of money for guys like Raef LaFrentz, Nick Van Exel, and Oliver St. Jean, and then turn them into Atawn Jamison and Antoine Walker, and then into Jason Terry, Devin Harris, and Jerry Stackhouse. Meanwhile he could also afford to cut Michael Finley and his $20 million off the roster and pay Erick Dampier $70 million. You use the "needed adjustments" as if Cuban just made a few tweaks and called it a day, when in actuality he has a history of just throwing crap at the wall and seeing what sticks. The NBA Finals period was the closest you could say Cuban got to calming down, and he eventually blew it all up for Jason Kidd.

Am I arguing with the result? No. His moves helped get the Mavs to the Finals. Is he operating under the same considerations as Petrie and the Maloofs? Did we have a superstar and a bunch of money to throw away? No way, so why do you keep trying to compare them entirely based off the end result? Not to mention that you seem to be forgetting about anything that happened to the Mavs after the Finals

 

[fnordius]

Question:

Since this whole improbable idea is based on a S&T by Toronto, who are really in a bad place already in terms of payroll, how do they do a S&T and make the salaries work? It's not like they can take on a Bosh worth of payroll commitments without putting some serious hurt on them. That is, after all, why they're letting him walk in the first place.

Yeah, it's after midnight and I'm tipsy and probably overlooking something obvious, but... ??

 

[est.1999]

They don't have to take on contracts like that cause teams under the cap, like us, can absorb the contract without having to give up anything really. We'd give up landry or Thompson, something they supposedly want, because they want a young cheap PF to aleviate the loss of bosh.

 

[fnordius]

Ah, right. I'm so unused to our being under the cap!

I don't think it'll ever happen, but it's good to get those "theoretical possibility" things out of the way.

 

[itzcoatl]

If Bosh cares about winning, I think his best option would be Sac. We got an all-star in the making with Tyreke. A high draft pick coming up, and some very good supporting cast members - not to mention a good coach who is apparently a pretty knowledgeable, and likable guy. If we ended up drafting someone like Cousins, I think we would be a very exciting young team that any basketball player would like to a part of. Houston could be ahead of us -- if they actually had the cap room to work out a sign-and-trade deal.

Of course, a lot depends on what NY and NJ end up doing. It seems like those teams are so bare bones, that they really are not appealing to a free agent who expects to win. Those teams would probably need to fill out and sign some good role players before they could be a draw for a high-quality free agent who is interested in more than just big city life.

Sure, Sacramento does not offer big city amenities. But if I was a free agent looking for a good contract deal, would big city life really outweigh an extra guaranteed year at 20 million dollars that would come in a sign-and-trade deal? How much more could a star gain in endorsements simply because he lives in a big city? Would those endorsement still be there if his team sucked? Maybe it is just because I'm a homer, but I think that the Kings are going to be a really great team to play for over the next decade.

 

[fnordius]

So if you're Bosh, and can go to a team like OKC or Memphis, which already don't suck, why do you pick 27th-best Sac? Why win in 3 years when you can win now?

 

[Prince_XY]

Ask yourself.

After Cuban let Steve Nash go and the Mavericks made some needed adjustments in the roster ( one of which was the case of Dampier as you pointed out ), they managed in a few years to reached the NBA FINALS.

What does that tell you?

Dampier played his part, but he only averaged 23mpg and was part of a platoon with Diop. They made the NBA Finals because they had a ridiculously deep team

They had a ridiculously deep team that Cuban made possible and which Dampier was a part of.

The NBA Finals period was the closest you could say Cuban got to calming down....

And they still managed to be better than us. They reached the NBA FINALS and the Kings haven't upto now under Petrie/Maloofs. And upto now, they have remained very competitive and a lot better team than us.

Am I arguing with the result? No. His moves helped get the Mavs to the Finals.

There is your answer. Cuban is the man!

 

[mac]

This post is awesome.

Knowing Thompson is a hardworking kid, there is only one way for him - UP.

I wonder how Thompson's stats compares with the first 2 years of NBA play against those so-called top power forwards. The last time I checked, I think Thompson even have a better FG% than Bosh's first 2 years in the NBA.

And how about Boozer's first 2 years?

Thompson definitely has the potential to be a solid maybe player in the top half of PFs. But he doesn't have superstar talent, even if he does put up pretty good and promising stats. Lets face it, Thompson gets most of his points on dunks off feeds from Reke or Beno, or wide open jumpshots off pick and pops with Tyreke.

The star players work much harder to put up the same stats as they are the focal point of the defense. Tell me when the last time JT was double-teamed by the opposing team.

As for rebounding, JT is our best rebounder hands down. But he also gets a couple of rebounds from cleaning up his own easy misses.

 

[Prince_XY]

Thompson definitely has the potential to be a solid maybe player in the top half of PFs. But he doesn't have superstar talent, even if he does put up pretty good and promising stats. Lets face it, Thompson gets most of his points on dunks off feeds from Reke or Beno, or wide open jumpshots off pick and pops with Tyreke.

The star players work much harder to put up the same stats as they are the focal point of the defense. Tell me when the last time JT was double-teamed by the opposing team.

As for rebounding, JT is our best rebounder hands down. But he also gets a couple of rebounds from cleaning up his own easy misses.

Correct me if I remember it wrongly, but I remember Bosh was not the focal point of defense too during his rookie year in the NBA. And Boozer's ascension to being a premier power forward even came much later in his career.

 

[Rookie]

Ask yourself.

After Cuban let Steve Nash go and the Mavericks made some needed adjustments in the roster ( one of which was the case of Dampier as you pointed out ), they managed in a few years to reached the NBA FINALS.

What does that tell you?

Luck can happen to anyone.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

They had a ridiculously deep team that Cuban made possible and which Dampier was a part of.


And they still managed to be better than us. They reached the NBA FINALS and the Kings haven't upto now under Petrie/Maloofs. And upto now, they have remained very competitive and a lot better team than us.


There is your answer. Cuban is the man!

Look, I don't want to start name calling or anything, but arguing with you is very repetitive and you never seem to address anything but a few cherry picked quotes. I never said Cuban wasn't at least partly responsible for that NBA Finals team. I said that the two team operate under different circumstances so trying to directly compare the two is pointless.

Why are you intentionally ignoring the fact that:
1) Webber got hurt and Dirk didn't
2) Cuban operates under a limitless budget while the Kings do not

Because those two things are a pretty big deal in how a franchise operates, yet you still saying that because he got to the NBA Finals he's someone "better" at putting together a team than Petrie/the Maloofs. You might as well just directly compare our rebuilding with the Lakers and say that Kupchak is better than Petrie because he rebuilt a championship contender.

Never mind the fact that Cuban blew up that NBA Finals team you seem to emphasis so much in an effort to get Jason Kidd.

 

[pdxKingsFan]

If Bosh cares about winning, I think his best option would be Sac.

There are certain indications that he doesn't. He has indicated in interviews that were posted before that he wants to be "the man" who has a team built around him, not go off and join an established star elsewhere.
Chris Bosh Doesn't Want to Be Anyone's Lieutenant

Sure, Sacramento does not offer big city amenities. But if I was a free agent looking for a good contract deal, would big city life really outweigh an extra guaranteed year at 20 million dollars that would come in a sign-and-trade deal? How much more could a star gain in endorsements simply because he lives in a big city? Would those endorsement still be there if his team sucked? Maybe it is just because I'm a homer, but I think that the Kings are going to be a really great team to play for over the next decade.

Odds are fairly decent that Bosh will still sign another contract after this one and get back some of that 20 million, but let's be pessimistic and say he winds up losing 10 million of it. That means he only has to pick up an extra 10 million in endorsements to make it back. That should not be a problem if he's playing for NY who will get a handful of nationally televised games even if they struggle to win 20 games. The same can't be said in Sacramento. Even when we were winning I don't think our guys had the kind of shoe deals players in big markets get, let alone silly stuff like soda and cell phones.

 

[Kingster]

Just for reference sake. Most of the revelant PF's around the league, listed by most PPG.

Nowitzki: 25.0 PPG - 7.7 RPG - 1.0 BPG - 11 years in the league

Bosh: 24.0 PPG - 10.8 RPG - 1.0 BPG - 6 years in the league

Stoudemire: 23.1 PPG - 8.9 RPG - 1.0 BPG - 8 years in the league

Z. Randolph: 20.8 PPG - 11.7 RPG - 0.4 BPG - 8 years in the league

D. Lee: 20.2 PPG - 11.7 RPG - 0.4 BPG - 4 years in the league

Boozer: 19.5 PPG - 11.2 RPG - 0.5 BPG - 7 years in the league

D. West: 19.0 PPG - 7.5 RPG - 0.7 BPG - 7 years in the league

P. Gasol: 18.3 PPG - 11.3 RPG - 1.7 BPG - 9 years in the league

L. Aldridge: 17.9 PPG - 8.0 RPG - 0.6 BPG - 4 years in the league

A. Jefferson: 17.1 PPG - 9.3 RPG - 1.3 BPG - 6 years in the league

J. Smith: 15.7 PPG - 8.7 RPG - 2.1 BPG - 5 years in the league

J. Green: 15.1 PPG - 6.0 RPG - 0.9 BPG - 3 years in the league

Beasley: 14.3 PPG - 6.4 RPG - 0.6 BPG - 2 years in the league

Millsap: 13.7 PPG - 6.9 RPG - 1.2 BPG - 4 years in the league

Brand: 13.1 PPG - 6.1 RPG - 1.1 BPG - 11 years in the league

Thompson: 12.5 PPG - 8.5 RPG - 1.0 BPG - 2 years in the league

Villanueva: 11.9 PPG - 4.7 RPG - 0.7 BPG - 4 years in the league

K. Martin: 11.5 PPG - 9.4 RPG - 1.1 BPG - 9 years in the league

Haslem: 9.9 PPG - 8.1 RPG - 0.3 BPG - 6 years in the league

Varejao: 8.6 PPG - 7.6 RPG - 0.9 BPG - 5 years in the league


I may have missed a couple, but this is the majority of the main PF's. Kind of funny. Thompson's stats don't look that bad when you look at the overall picture, and consider that he's only been in the league 2 years. If he can improve by 2.5 points, and 1.5 rebounds a game, and play better defense, I'll be happy by the end of his third year.

As one can see, Bosh is clearly in the top five of all the PF's. Josh Smith would appear to be the best defender of the group. And Atlanta does play pretty good team defense.

Thompson doesn't play as well as those stats suggest. There needs to be a stat for bonehead plays. Thompson would be in the "upper" tier. It would include all the shots he gets blocked because he goes in the lane and jumps off two feet and all the turnovers he causes by bringing the ball down to his knees. Those are the kind of plays that just kill teams. They are more important than reb or point stats. We talked about BB IQ. Well, Thompson at best has an average BB IQ, and at worst below average. Year 3 for him will be a big IQ test for him. He's was a four-year draftee and now he's going into his 3rd NBA season. Is he going to pass or fail, or just give you enough to hope he gets it next year? It's going to be interesting...

 

[sidney]

There are certain indications that he doesn't. He has indicated in interviews that were posted before that he wants to be "the man" who has a team built around him, not go off and join an established star elsewhere.
Chris Bosh Doesn't Want to Be Anyone's Lieutenant


Odds are fairly decent that Bosh will still sign another contract after this one and get back some of that 20 million, but let's be pessimistic and say he winds up losing 10 million of it. That means he only has to pick up an extra 10 million in endorsements to make it back. That should not be a problem if he's playing for NY who will get a handful of nationally televised games even if they struggle to win 20 games. The same can't be said in Sacramento. Even when we were winning I don't think our guys had the kind of shoe deals players in big markets get, let alone silly stuff like soda and cell phones.

Would you pay 10M to have that face endorse your products?

In all seriousness, if we draft Cousins or Favors I doubt we even make an effort. If one of those guys turns out to be an all-star big we're looking at a dozen good years with an all-star inside/outside game.

If we draft Turner, I could see making an offer to Toronto that no one else could with young cheap talent + cap space. Evans/Turner/Bosh would be our "big 3" and then we just collect role players. Impossible to know how open Bosh would be to that.

 

[Kingsguy881]

I'll tell you where Bosh should go. He should go to hell. He should not pass Go, not collect his 2 million dollars or whatever. He should take his Velociraptor looking @ss straight to hell. For saying 'hell no' to the idea of coming to Sacramento. Punk.

 

[itzcoatl]

So if you're Bosh, and can go to a team like OKC or Memphis, which already don't suck, why do you pick 27th-best Sac? Why win in 3 years when you can win now?

Actually, you're right. I forgot about OKC. Still, depending on how the Kings draft, we might end up with Cousins who would be a very good pair with Bosh, IMO. I like OKC a lot, but the 7akers exposed their major weakness, which is lack of big men. I don't think Bosh alone will remedy that - so they will have a glaring weakness in their team. Meanwhile, OKC probably would not have the resources to pair up Bosh with any other good big men.

If the Kings can pair up a great big man with Tyreke, they will be on the right track to a traditional championship winning-formula. (Yes, I know OKC is a waaaay better team than Sac right now).

OKC is young, exciting, and has one of the best players in the league in Durant. Based on those factors they are most likely a better draw that the Kings right now. But, hey! I'm a Kings fan. I'm trying to sell our team.

 

[Bricklayer]

Actually, you're right. I forgot about OKC. Still, depending on how the Kings draft, we might end up with Cousins who would be a very good pair with Bosh, IMO. I like OKC a lot, but the 7akers exposed their major weakness, which is lack of big men. I don't think Bosh alone will remedy that - so they will have a glaring weakness in their team. Meanwhile, OKC probably would not have the resources to pair up Bosh with any other good big men.

If the Kings can pair up a great big man with Tyreke, they will be on the right track to a traditional championship winning-formula. (Yes, I know OKC is a waaaay better team than Sac right now).

OKC is young, exciting, and has one of the best players in the league in Durant. Based on those factors they are most likely a better draw that the Kings right now. But, hey! I'm a Kings fan. I'm trying to sell our team.

Ok look...if adding a 24pt 11reb 6'10" PF to your team isn't enough to correct the lack of bigs problem that caused you to lose a tight series at the buzzer in Game 6...what exactly would be? Somehow I don't think OKC needs to add multiple All Stars along the frontline or 3 7 footers or something. And a 50+ppg pairing of Bosh and Durant is crazy.

I actually think our best argument against that would be "maybe Bosh is stupid". Which in this case means that Bosh can "see" Kevin Durant and understands its Durant's team and he would be a second fiddle, but maybe arrogance or ignorance has him not realizing Tyreke is going to be the same way in a couple of years, and he could come here thinknig he would be the man, and just wake up one morning and realize he was second fiddle here too.

 

[itzcoatl]

Ok look...if adding a 24pt 11reb 6'10" PF to your team isn't enough to correct the lack of bigs problem that caused you to lose a tight series at the buzzer in Game 6...what exactly would be? Somehow I don't think OKC needs to add multiple All Stars along the frontline or 3 7 footers or something. And a 50+ppg pairing of Bosh and Durant is crazy.

I actually think our best argument against that would be "maybe Bosh is stupid". Which in this case means that Bosh can "see" Kevin Durant and understands its Durant's team and he would be a second fiddle, but maybe arrogance or ignorance has him not realizing Tyreke is going to be the same way in a couple of years, and he could come here thinknig he would be the man, and just wake up one morning and realize he was second fiddle here too.

I knew someone was going to jump on me after I posted that!

I guess what I meant is that Bosh isn't really the defensive stopper that OKC needs. Bosh seems a more offensive oriented kind of guy, but OKC's problem isn't offensive (they have tons of it - and there is only one ball to go around). They lack an intimidator. Someone to stop the Gasol's and Bynum's from walking all over them. OKC could trade some of their young talent for some defensive big like that...but they don't have that guy yet, just like the Kings don't yet have that guy.

 

[Kevin's Good Feet]

Pau was anything but a defensive stopper for the Grizzles (albeit better than Bosh), but you give him some more seasoning and put him in a winning environment that emphasizes defense and he makes a transformation. I don't see why Bosh couldn't have the same thing happen to him.

 

[Superman]

Pau is still not a defensive stopper. He's a below average defender. He'll make a play here and there, but he's hardly a deterrent, and the good big men in the NBA (Howard, Stoudemire, Bosh, etc.) can get the best of him.

 

[bajaden]

You stat people need to stop. Even if Thompson had the same averages as bosh which will never happen ever. He still doesn't have the impact as the top PF's in this league.

I think thats a seperate issue from what I was saying. I wasn't comparing him to Bosh, I was comparing him to all the PF's in the league, and said his stats don't look that bad for a second year player. I mean what is it with people? It seems that you have to be a superstar to be acceptable.

Bosh was brought up because he would appear to be an impact player. It just so happens that he playes the same position as Thompson. If you look at the top PF's in the league, most of them have been in the league for 5 years or more. Bosh wasn't an impact player in his second year either.

What if we draft Cousins or Turner, and which ever one we draft turns out to be an impact player. And Thompson averages 15 and 10 for the year, and improves on defense. Is that acceptable to you? He almost averaged that for the last 17 games of the year. So its not out of the question.

Go back and look at those numbers again. Out of all those listed, only 10 are averaging over 15 points a game. Out of those 10, only 5 are averaging 10 or more rebounds a game. And out of those 5, only 2 are averaging 1 or more blocks a game. Now I know that they're just stats. And stats don't always show the real impact a player has on the game. I certainly think thats true of Varejao, who plays excellent man defense, which doesn't show up in the stat line.

Now if your asking me would I rather have Bosh or Thompson? Well I've already proposed trading Thompson for Bosh, so I think that shows where I stand. To be honest, I'd like to have both. . I'm a big believer in size. Especially when its talented size.

 

[bajaden]

So if you're Bosh, and can go to a team like OKC or Memphis, which already don't suck, why do you pick 27th-best Sac? Why win in 3 years when you can win now?

I don't think Memphis is far enough under the cap to pull it off. But If I were Bosh, I'd seriously consider The Thunder. Their salary base will be right at 40 mil starting next season, and they have a couple of young PF's that they could offer. They're already a very good team and the addition of Bosh would really elevate them to the next level. The only downside is that its Oklahoma, and being from Missouri, I've been to Oklahoma many times. It makes Sacramento look like the Times Square of locations. But that aside. His chances of winning a championship would be better with the Thunder than it would be with either the Knicks or the Nets.