The Kings' present and future

[kingofthejungle]

Hello all,

I've been a regular reader for years and finally decided to join the dialogue. I wanted to share my thoughts on the current roster and the upcomming draft.

This Kings' team consists of some long-term complimentary pieces and a future superstar in Tyreke Evans. IMHO management has mostly made good decisions in designing a team of young, talented players w/ upside that have good attitudes and complimentary games. I'm thinking of Thompson, Landry, Greene, Brockman, Casspi, and Udrih. The Kings seem to be missing their second-fiddle and this issue may be resolved this draft.

Other players, such as Hawes and Garcia, are "less core" IMHO, but for different reasons. Although I have some lingering concerns re: Hawes, I suspect his work ethic will improve, at least temporarily, as he is due for a possibile contract extension. Time will tell when it comes to Spencer: I just hope he eventually "gets it." He is clearly very talented, but the clock is ticking.

Garcia has had a tough year w/ his wrist injury and I'm hoping he will bounce back next season. I'm a little concerned that he will continue to have "hardware issues", however. That said, there's no questioning Garcia's grit and the fact that Garcia brings an important commodity to this Kings team: outside shooting. Garcia will likely continue to be a high-quality rotation player when healthy and he's probably not going anywhere with that contract.

Long story short, this is how I see the Kings' 10/11 depth chart (before free agency and the draft and assuming they re-sign Brockman):

Evans/
Udrih/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Thompson/Brockman
Hawes/

Definetly a work in progress, but clearly certain key pieces are in place. The draft will help address one of the two glaring holes seen above.

It seems that the consensus is that the Kings need a legit big manwho can protect the paint. I agree. However, if the Kings luck out and get the 1st or 2nd pick, should they select Wall or Turner, then trade for a mid-first round pick in this big-heavy draft? A backcourt of Wall/Evans or Evans/Turner would be difficult to resist, but the Kings would still need to address their frontcourt. There are some bigs available that may be available in the late lottery/mid-1st: Udoh, Whiteside, Monroe, Alabi, or Sanders.

I'm curious about Cole Aldrich. I've read much on this board about how he would provide excellent post defense, but I'm somewhat concerned about the dip in his numbers this year. If the Kings get the 5th or 6th pick, does Aldrich's "fit" justify the fact that the Kings are in all likelihood selecting a sub-All Star level talent. Similarly, would it make more sense to pick up Wesley Johnson w/ the 5th or 6th pick, play him at SG w/ Evans, then find a way to nab a mid-1st big?

My last question re: the draft is the continued debate re: Cousins vs. Favors. I understand why many prefer Cousins: efficiency, length, rebounding, offensive IQ, etc., but his attitude, weight, transition game, and lack of explosiveness scare me. In an effort to learn more about Cousins, I checked out some youtube clips of his interactions w/ other players and fans, and this concerned me even more. He seems incredibly immature and, if there's one thing I've learned about good NBA players, it's that most put in tons of hard work. I'm not sure that's in Cousins' makeup.

I actually prefer Favors as I've heard that he has a good head on his shoulders. Favors is just as long, more explosive, can run the floor, and finish around the rim. I think these attributes would actually fit better w/ Evans game. Favors is less NBA ready, but should prove to immediately compliment the Kings' frontcourt. I could see Favors and Thompson starting down the road w/ Landry and Hawes comming off the bench (see below).

-----

Then there are the free agency questions. I agree with those who would rather the Kings sit this one out as the new CBA looms. Save your money for next year as the Kings will get increased media attention and show continued signs of improvement.

--

Finally (I realize this is a very long first post but figured to "go for it"), I wanted to share my ideal depth chart. It's missing a starting shooting guard (2011 free agency?) but I've long believed that Udrih, Garcia, Landry, and Hawes are reserves for a contending team, which is the ultimate goal. Note: I expect that Casspi may emerge as a starter in a few years but, for now, Greene's improved defense and decision-making earns him the nod.

Evans/Udrih
?????/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Favors/Landry
Thompson/Hawes

Anyway, just wanted to share my perspective. I really look forward to being a contributing member of this forum. It goes without saying that there are some very informed, well-written members here!

KOTJ

 

[bajaden]

Hello all,

I've been a regular reader for years and finally decided to join the dialogue. I wanted to share my thoughts on the current roster and the upcomming draft.

This Kings' team consists of some long-term complimentary pieces and a future superstar in Tyreke Evans. IMHO management has mostly made good decisions in designing a team of young, talented players w/ upside that have good attitudes and complimentary games. I'm thinking of Thompson, Landry, Greene, Brockman, Casspi, and Udrih. The Kings seem to be missing their second-fiddle and this issue may be resolved this draft.

Other players, such as Hawes and Garcia, are "less core" IMHO, but for different reasons. Although I have some lingering concerns re: Hawes, I suspect his work ethic will improve, at least temporarily, as he is due for a possibile contract extension. Time will tell when it comes to Spencer: I just hope he eventually "gets it." He is clearly very talented, but the clock is ticking.

Garcia has had a tough year w/ his wrist injury and I'm hoping he will bounce back next season. I'm a little concerned that he will continue to have "hardware issues", however. That said, there's no questioning Garcia's grit and the fact that Garcia brings an important commodity to this Kings team: outside shooting. Garcia will likely continue to be a high-quality rotation player when healthy and he's probably not going anywhere with that contract.

Long story short, this is how I see the Kings' 10/11 depth chart (before free agency and the draft and assuming they re-sign Brockman):

Evans/
Udrih/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Thompson/Brockman
Hawes/

Definetly a work in progress, but clearly certain key pieces are in place. The draft will help address one of the two glaring holes seen above.

It seems that the consensus is that the Kings need a legit big manwho can protect the paint. I agree. However, if the Kings luck out and get the 1st or 2nd pick, should they select Wall or Turner, then trade for a mid-first round pick in this big-heavy draft? A backcourt of Wall/Evans or Evans/Turner would be difficult to resist, but the Kings would still need to address their frontcourt. There are some bigs available that may be available in the late lottery/mid-1st: Udoh, Whiteside, Monroe, Alabi, or Sanders.

I'm curious about Cole Aldrich. I've read much on this board about how he would provide excellent post defense, but I'm somewhat concerned about the dip in his numbers this year. If the Kings get the 5th or 6th pick, does Aldrich's "fit" justify the fact that the Kings are in all likelihood selecting a sub-All Star level talent. Similarly, would it make more sense to pick up Wesley Johnson w/ the 5th or 6th pick, play him at SG w/ Evans, then find a way to nab a mid-1st big?

My last question re: the draft is the continued debate re: Cousins vs. Favors. I understand why many prefer Cousins: efficiency, length, rebounding, offensive IQ, etc., but his attitude, weight, transition game, and lack of explosiveness scare me. In an effort to learn more about Cousins, I checked out some youtube clips of his interactions w/ other players and fans, and this concerned me even more. He seems incredibly immature and, if there's one thing I've learned about good NBA players, it's that most put in tons of hard work. I'm not sure that's in Cousins' makeup.

I actually prefer Favors as I've heard that he has a good head on his shoulders. Favors is just as long, more explosive, can run the floor, and finish around the rim. I think these attributes would actually fit better w/ Evans game. Favors is less NBA ready, but should prove to immediately compliment the Kings' frontcourt. I could see Favors and Thompson starting down the road w/ Landry and Hawes comming off the bench (see below).

-----

Then there are the free agency questions. I agree with those who would rather the Kings sit this one out as the new CBA looms. Save your money for next year as the Kings will get increased media attention and show continued signs of improvement.

--

Finally (I realize this is a very long first post but figured to "go for it"), I wanted to share my ideal depth chart. It's missing a starting shooting guard (2011 free agency?) but I've long believed that Udrih, Garcia, Landry, and Hawes are reserves for a contending team, which is the ultimate goal. Note: I expect that Casspi may emerge as a starter in a few years but, for now, Greene's improved defense and decision-making earns him the nod.

Evans/Udrih
?????/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Favors/Landry
Thompson/Hawes

Anyway, just wanted to share my perspective. I really look forward to being a contributing member of this forum. It goes without saying that there are some very informed, well-written members here!

KOTJ

First of all, welcome aboard. Very nice well thought out post. I don't agree with all of it, but whats new. I assume that you believe Nocioni is going to be traded since you don't list him. Thats certainly my hope, but not a given.

As far as Cousins goes. I hate to keep revisiting this part of the debate, but I guess its just not going to die. I'll be honest. When the college season started I had heard, just like everyone else, of Cousins immaturity and sometime temper. So I didn't go in with blinders on and just try to ignore any incidents that might occur. But I did try not to be prejudiced.

And yes I did see incidents between him and Calapari. But it wasn't something that happened every game, and I watched over 20 some odd games. Which shows that I need to get a life. I think the whole thing is overblown. Were talking about a 19 year old kid. When I was 19 I got so mad at my stepdad that I kicked the front door off its hinges. I would have hated that to be my branded image for life.

As far as his weight, I'm not sure what your refering to there. He weighs 275 pounds and if anything looks like he weighs less than that. I haven't heard anyone this year complain about his weight or his conditioning. Some of his disagreements with Calapari came over him not wanting to come out of games. As far as being explosive. Well I'll bet he's more explosive than Chris Kaman. I could name others but I think you get my point. I'm not going to tell you that there's no risk with him. But I think its a reasonable risk. He's a unique talent that doesn't come around very often. But hey, if we end up with Favors, I'll still be happy.

 

[bench_blob]

As far as his weight, I'm not sure what your refering to there. He weighs 275 pounds and if anything looks like he weighs less than that. I haven't heard anyone this year complain about his weight or his conditioning. Some of his disagreements with Calapari came over him not wanting to come out of games. As far as being explosive. Well I'll bet he's more explosive than Chris Kaman. I could name others but I think you get my point. I'm not going to tell you that there's no risk with him. But I think its a reasonable risk. He's a unique talent that doesn't come around very often. But hey, if we end up with Favors, I'll still be happy.

I am not sure what has been said about his weight by others. But DeMarcus Cousins, by NBA player standards, is fat. In fact, by athletic standards, he is fat. Just look at his physique, he has a gut and not a lot of muscle definition.

Now, I don't view his physique as a significant negative, because:

(1) His conditioning up and down the court seems pretty good.
(2) It speaks to his added upside that once he loses the baby fat and commits himself to the weight room, and preparing for 1st NBA season, who he can potentially become as a force in the league.

I look forward to seeing the pre-draft private workouts, like last year. That will be when we get a better idea how ready Cousins is to contribute, and how serious Kings may be about him.

Welcome to the board, KOTJ.

 

[sc3252]

I am not sure what has been said about his weight by others. But DeMarcus Cousins, by NBA player standards, is fat. In fact, by athletic standards, he is fat. Just look at his physique, he has a gut and not a lot of muscle definition.

I think that's everyone's worry, that he will be another Eddy Curry or another Sean May. I am not worrying about that too much if we do get the third or fourth pick since I am sure they will be digging into his personal life before drafting him. If they find that he stuffs his face too much or find that he can't stay conditioned(or other personal problems) I am sure they will not pick him and we will see him drop down until someone bites like what New Jersey did with Marcus Williams.

 

[Capt. Factorial]

I think that's everyone's worry, that he will be another Eddy Curry or another Sean May. I am not worrying about that too much if we do get the third or fourth pick since I am sure they will be digging into his personal life before drafting him. If they find that he stuffs his face too much or find that he can't stay conditioned(or other personal problems) I am sure they will not pick him and we will see him drop down until someone bites like what New Jersey did with Marcus Williams.

Even if he drops for attitude concerns, there's no way he drops as far as Marcus Williams went - he went down to the 20s (off the top of my head, 23??). Cousins falling to 5-6 would be a pretty big fall, 7-8 seems like a floor unless it turns out he's been killing and eating people (OFF of the basketball court, that is).

 

[Bricklayer]

Even if he drops for attitude concerns, there's no way he drops as far as Marcus Williams went - he went down to the 20s (off the top of my head, 23??). Cousins falling to 5-6 would be a pretty big fall, 7-8 seems like a floor unless it turns out he's been killing and eating people (OFF of the basketball court, that is).

I dunno...we HAVE been looking for an intimidator in there...

 

[bajaden]

I am not sure what has been said about his weight by others. But DeMarcus Cousins, by NBA player standards, is fat. In fact, by athletic standards, he is fat. Just look at his physique, he has a gut and not a lot of muscle definition.

Now, I don't view his physique as a significant negative, because:

(1) His conditioning up and down the court seems pretty good.
(2) It speaks to his added upside that once he loses the baby fat and commits himself to the weight room, and preparing for 1st NBA season, who he can potentially become as a force in the league.

I look forward to seeing the pre-draft private workouts, like last year. That will be when we get a better idea how ready Cousins is to contribute, and how serious Kings may be about him.

Welcome to the board, KOTJ.

Maybe we have different ideas of what fat looks like. Here are some pictures of Cousins. I'd like you to point out his big gut to me. Because if he's fat, then there are a lot of NBA players that are obese.

http://www.zimbio.com/DeMarcus+Cousins/pictures/pro

 

[rainmaker]

Maybe we have different ideas of what fat looks like. Here are some pictures of Cousins. I'd like you to point out his big gut to me. Because if he's fat, then there are a lot of NBA players that are obese.

http://www.zimbio.com/DeMarcus+Cousins/pictures/pro

I don't see any love handles either.

 

[Tetsujin]

I dunno...we HAVE been looking for an intimidator in there...

Well, Sean May has the eating part down.

 

[kingofthejungle]

How about the other bigs?

Yeah, it seems to me that the Cousins' debate is inevitable if the Kings get a top 3 pick, which is looking more and more like it may very well happen. But what about other bigs? Although Favors is considered a top 4 talent, he's not talked about as extensively on this board. I mean, is it less compelling to discuss a player who seems to have a good head on his shoulders? What are his strengths and how do you project him? Would he ultimately fit alongside Thompson in the front court? I know he has GREAT length and athleticism and I can only imagine what watching him and Thompson fill the lanes would look like.

And what about the second tier bigs? I'm hoping we get a either Cousins or Favors based on talent alone, but what other bigs might best fit our roster AND show star potential. Yes, this question excludes the inevitable Cole Aldrich debate as he has been discussed extensively already. In short, if the Kings pick at 5 or 6 in a big-heavy draft, I expect Petrie to find a big who can play both ways. Cole's statistical regression was disappointing.

I was surprised to find Ed Davis and Greg Monroe rounding out the top 10 on draftexpress. Monroe is Petriesque for sure, but I'm not sure even Geoff can effectively rationalize drafting him w/ the Kings' lack of interior defense. I honestly don't know much about Davis other than he's injured and had a disappointing season at UNC. But if his "best case" is Al Horford as DE suggests, I'm cool with that talent level but how does it fit alongside the existing frontcourt.

There are other bigs but their values appear tenous. Udoh is likeliest the next best available big followed by others like Whiteside, Alabi, and Sanders. From the reviews I commonly read on this board, Epke Udoh sounds like a great choice. His age is not a big concern IMHO as plenty of quality players have entered the NBA at 23. "Rasheed Wallace w/out the attitude" sounds like a ringer to me though.

With NBA players it's all about committing their off season towards their improvement, journeyman and super star alike. That's what concerns me about Cousins, I'm not convinced he'll work on his game consistently. Now, I'm operating on limited info, it's only an impression and if the Kings draft him there's no doubting I'll jump to his bandwagon. I'm a Kings fan first and foremost.

 

[Kingster]

Regarding Cousins, one area of his game that I haven't seen talked a lot about is defense (maybe it has in posts gone by, but I didn't see them). I don't see anything in his game that indicates he's going to be a stopper.
I can't imagine him being a game changer on the defensive end. I didn't see college players fearfully looking around to see where Cousins was in determining whether they could drive to the basket or not.
He just couldn't make up the ground or jump high enough or quick enough to really come from the weak side to protect the basket in a forceful way. I can see his forte as just standing there under the basket and with his reach making life uncomfortable for those driving to the basket (not a bad thing), but he's not going to be the major defensive force that King fans yearn for. Sometimes the fact that a guy is big and he has an attitude can be misconstrued to mean the guy is very good defensive player, when in fact he's not.

The best thing Cousins has going for him is his offensive potential. He could be a force on the offensive end, but not on the defensive end imo.

 

[bajaden]

Regarding Cousins, one area of his game that I haven't seen talked a lot about is defense (maybe it has in posts gone by, but I didn't see them). I don't see anything in his game that indicates he's going to be a stopper.
I can't imagine him being a game changer on the defensive end. I didn't see college players fearfully looking around to see where Cousins was in determining whether they could drive to the basket or not.
He just couldn't make up the ground or jump high enough or quick enough to really come from the weak side to protect the basket in a forceful way. I can see his forte as just standing there under the basket and with his reach making life uncomfortable for those driving to the basket (not a bad thing), but he's not going to be the major defensive force that King fans yearn for. Sometimes the fact that a guy is big and he has an attitude can be misconstrued to mean the guy is very good defensive player, when in fact he's not.

The best thing Cousins has going for him is his offensive potential. He could be a force on the offensive end, but not on the defensive end imo.

It all depends on what your looking for in a center. Its hard to find someone without flaws in some area. Cousins was a very good man defender in college. No, he wasn't a good weakside defender because he didn't play on the weakside of the floor. He left that up to Patrick Patterson. Favors averaged 2.1 BPG and cousins averaged 1.8 BPG. So It would appear that Favors has the edge in that dept. But if you break it down to minutes played, then Cousins has the edge. .075 to .074. Hardly worth debating over though. I mean if all you want is a shotblocking defender then just draft Whiteside who averaged 5.4 BPG. However at this point in time I don't think he could stop anyone from backing him up in the paint.

Cousins more than held his own in the paint. He dominated in the paint. he's a terrific rebounder. Will he ever be Marcus Camby? I doubt it, but I think he can become one of the top 5 centers in the NBA. Doesn't mean he will, just means I think he has the potential. And right now, thats what your betting on with most of these guys. Is there a little higher risk with this guy? Absolutely, but the reward is much higher too. Would I be happy with Favors? Damm right I would.

I'm also not sure where this idea of his not being a good athlete comes from. I heard the same thing last year about Griffin. He didn't have hops. He was slow of foot. wasn't explosive. I had no idea what people were talking about after having watched him play in almost every televised game for two years. I said he played within himself and only did what he needed to do at any given time. Well the combine proved me right when he blew everyone away with his athleticism. Now I'm not saying that Cousins is the athlete that Griffin is, but I'am saying that he's a pretty darned good athlete for a guy of his size. I mean, who are the great athletic centers in the NBA that he'll have to compete against.

Look, I know what everyone wants. They want a 7 footer that runs like a deer, has a 36" vertical and a 7'6" wingspan. They want him to be able to handle the ball, and pass the ball. They want him to have a good post game, but still be able to score from mid-range. They want him to be a good shotblocker, but also be able to hold his position in the paint. Quick enough to properly defend the pick and roll. Someone that sets good picks. Unfortunately most of the players that fit that description are in the HOF. Dwight Howard probably comes the closest, and even he has holes in his game.

My point being that there is no perfect player in this draft when it comes to a big man. Favors may be the best on pure potential when you look at his frame and size. Throw in work ethic, which I hear is stellar, he would be hard to pass up. On the other hand, he's further from a finished product than Cousins is. I think Cousins is capable of steping in and playing considerable minutes from day one. But then I think the same thing about Udoh. So does that mean I would take Udoh over Favors? Nope! Anyway, I'm glad I'm not making the choice if it comes down to those two. Cousins and Favors, I mean. I'd hate for the Kings to part of a Oden/Durant conversation..

 

[roasthawg]

Yeah, it seems to me that the Cousins' debate is inevitable if the Kings get a top 3 pick, which is looking more and more like it may very well happen. But what about other bigs? Although Favors is considered a top 4 talent, he's not talked about as extensively on this board. I mean, is it less compelling to discuss a player who seems to have a good head on his shoulders? What are his strengths and how do you project him? Would he ultimately fit alongside Thompson in the front court? I know he has GREAT length and athleticism and I can only imagine what watching him and Thompson fill the lanes would look like.

And what about the second tier bigs? I'm hoping we get a either Cousins or Favors based on talent alone, but what other bigs might best fit our roster AND show star potential. Yes, this question excludes the inevitable Cole Aldrich debate as he has been discussed extensively already. In short, if the Kings pick at 5 or 6 in a big-heavy draft, I expect Petrie to find a big who can play both ways. Cole's statistical regression was disappointing.

I was surprised to find Ed Davis and Greg Monroe rounding out the top 10 on draftexpress. Monroe is Petriesque for sure, but I'm not sure even Geoff can effectively rationalize drafting him w/ the Kings' lack of interior defense. I honestly don't know much about Davis other than he's injured and had a disappointing season at UNC. But if his "best case" is Al Horford as DE suggests, I'm cool with that talent level but how does it fit alongside the existing frontcourt.

There are other bigs but their values appear tenous. Udoh is likeliest the next best available big followed by others like Whiteside, Alabi, and Sanders. From the reviews I commonly read on this board, Epke Udoh sounds like a great choice. His age is not a big concern IMHO as plenty of quality players have entered the NBA at 23. "Rasheed Wallace w/out the attitude" sounds like a ringer to me though.

With NBA players it's all about committing their off season towards their improvement, journeyman and super star alike. That's what concerns me about Cousins, I'm not convinced he'll work on his game consistently. Now, I'm operating on limited info, it's only an impression and if the Kings draft him there's no doubting I'll jump to his bandwagon. I'm a Kings fan first and foremost.

Aldrich is it for me... if we don't pick at in the top four then Aldrich will probably be available and he's the guy I'll want us to draft.

 

[Kingster]

It all depends on what your looking for in a center. Its hard to find someone without flaws in some area. Cousins was a very good man defender in college. No, he wasn't a good weakside defender because he didn't play on the weakside of the floor. He left that up to Patrick Patterson. Favors averaged 2.1 BPG and cousins averaged 1.8 BPG. So It would appear that Favors has the edge in that dept. But if you break it down to minutes played, then Cousins has the edge. .075 to .074. Hardly worth debating over though. I mean if all you want is a shotblocking defender then just draft Whiteside who averaged 5.4 BPG. However at this point in time I don't think he could stop anyone from backing him up in the paint.

Cousins more than held his own in the paint. He dominated in the paint. he's a terrific rebounder. Will he ever be Marcus Camby? I doubt it, but I think he can become one of the top 5 centers in the NBA. Doesn't mean he will, just means I think he has the potential. And right now, thats what your betting on with most of these guys. Is there a little higher risk with this guy? Absolutely, but the reward is much higher too. Would I be happy with Favors? Damm right I would.

I'm also not sure where this idea of his not being a good athlete comes from. I heard the same thing last year about Griffin. He didn't have hops. He was slow of foot. wasn't explosive. I had no idea what people were talking about after having watched him play in almost every televised game for two years. I said he played within himself and only did what he needed to do at any given time. Well the combine proved me right when he blew everyone away with his athleticism. Now I'm not saying that Cousins is the athlete that Griffin is, but I'am saying that he's a pretty darned good athlete for a guy of his size. I mean, who are the great athletic centers in the NBA that he'll have to compete against.

Look, I know what everyone wants. They want a 7 footer that runs like a deer, has a 36" vertical and a 7'6" wingspan. They want him to be able to handle the ball, and pass the ball. They want him to have a good post game, but still be able to score from mid-range. They want him to be a good shotblocker, but also be able to hold his position in the paint. Quick enough to properly defend the pick and roll. Someone that sets good picks. Unfortunately most of the players that fit that description are in the HOF. Dwight Howard probably comes the closest, and even he has holes in his game.

My point being that there is no perfect player in this draft when it comes to a big man. Favors may be the best on pure potential when you look at his frame and size. Throw in work ethic, which I hear is stellar, he would be hard to pass up. On the other hand, he's further from a finished product than Cousins is. I think Cousins is capable of steping in and playing considerable minutes from day one. But then I think the same thing about Udoh. So does that mean I would take Udoh over Favors? Nope! Anyway, I'm glad I'm not making the choice if it comes down to those two. Cousins and Favors, I mean. I'd hate for the Kings to part of a Oden/Durant conversation..

I didn't see Cousins dominate in the paint in the NCAAs. In fact, Varnado outplayed him by a little, and then he really didn't do much against West Virginia. I agree that nobody is going to move Cousins out of the paint. Dwight Howard would have to go around him rather than through him, and everybody can agree you'd rather make Howard go around rather than through. He would provide beef to a lineup that's not all that beefy.

As far as the Udoh/Favors discussion, I never did see Favors do anything. Doesn't mean he didn't do it; just means I never saw it, and I think I only saw maybe four games. I didn't see the explosiveness or length from Favors that I expected from the hype. Didn't show much to me defensively. Seemed solid, but not spectacular for a college player. Not having seen him do his thing, I'm putting Udoh ahead of him.

 

[bajaden]

I didn't see Cousins dominate in the paint in the NCAAs. In fact, Varnado outplayed him by a little, and then he really didn't do much against West Virginia. I agree that nobody is going to move Cousins out of the paint. Dwight Howard would have to go around him rather than through him, and everybody can agree you'd rather make Howard go around rather than through. He would provide beef to a lineup that's not all that beefy.

As far as the Udoh/Favors discussion, I never did see Favors do anything. Doesn't mean he didn't do it; just means I never saw it, and I think I only saw maybe four games. I didn't see the explosiveness or length from Favors that I expected from the hype. Didn't show much to me defensively. Seemed solid, but not spectacular for a college player. Not having seen him do his thing, I'm putting Udoh ahead of him.

If by the NCAA's you mean the tournament, Mississippi St. and Varnado didn't make the tournament. He was certainlly dominate against Eastern Tennessee, and it was a no contest against Wake Forest. The only game he didn't really play well in was the West Virgina game, and that had more to do with Kentucky deciding to just sit on the outside and shoot three's. Doesn't matter. To you he's just a slightly better version of Jerome James, and to me the low end of the stick for him would Dampier. I don't know what the high end would be, but it would be better than most of the centers playing in the league. I get it, you don't like him.

As far as Favors goes. You had to watch a lot of games to see what he's capable of. Georgia Tech is badly put together team. And a badly coached team in my opinion. Smartest move Favors made is to be one and done. No point in going back to that mess at G. Tech. Udoh is better than Favors right now, but remember that Favors is freshman and Udoh should be a senior. So he should be better. Udoh's freshman year was nothing to write home about. Doesn't mean that I'm not still a big fan of his. Just adding a little prospective.

 

[Kingster]

If by the NCAA's you mean the tournament, Mississippi St. and Varnado didn't make the tournament. He was certainlly dominate against Eastern Tennessee, and it was a no contest against Wake Forest. The only game he didn't really play well in was the West Virgina game, and that had more to do with Kentucky deciding to just sit on the outside and shoot three's. Doesn't matter. To you he's just a slightly better version of Jerome James, and to me the low end of the stick for him would Dampier. I don't know what the high end would be, but it would be better than most of the centers playing in the league. I get it, you don't like him.

As far as Favors goes. You had to watch a lot of games to see what he's capable of. Georgia Tech is badly put together team. And a badly coached team in my opinion. Smartest move Favors made is to be one and done. No point in going back to that mess at G. Tech. Udoh is better than Favors right now, but remember that Favors is freshman and Udoh should be a senior. So he should be better. Udoh's freshman year was nothing to write home about. Doesn't mean that I'm not still a big fan of his. Just adding a little prospective.

I was thinking about the SEC tourney. Varnado outplayed Cousins, although Kentucky won the game (on a last second Cousins tip-in).

What kind of athleticism have you seen from Favors? How much upside do you think he really has.

 

[bajaden]

I was thinking about the SEC tourney. Varnado outplayed Cousins, although Kentucky won the game (on a last second Cousins tip-in).

What kind of athleticism have you seen from Favors? How much upside do you think he really has.

I think he's a good athlete. I do think he needs to be in better condition to play in the NBA, but most college players don't realize that until they come face to face with it. Tyreke being an exception. I think Cousins has a big upside. I wouldn't be touting him if I didn't. But as with all draft picks, there are no guarantee's. In some cases, you have players with a great work ethic, good charactor, and that show promise in glimpses here and there of their potential. Favors would fall into that category. Then you have players that the potential just leaps off of. There's no question in your mind that they can suceed at the next level if talent was the only issue. Those players are divided into two groups. Those with the work ethic and good charactor, and those that are questionable in that area.

Wall and Turner fall into the first group and Cousins and Lance Stevenson fall into the second group. Especially Stevenson. So the question to me isn't the upside. Its the work ethic and charactor issue. In Cousins case I think its overblown. Its a spur of the moment type of thing. Now that doesn't excuse it, but thats different than someone like Stevenson who is loaded with talent, but is a walking headcase all the time. I saw two games where he didn't like the lack of a call and instead of getting back in transition, he slowly walked back down the sideline, not even on the floor, and had his coach come running down and actually shove him back onto the floor. I saw him refuse to come out of a game, and I saw him refuse to go back into a game. Now there's a head case I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. But he's very talented.

DeAndre Jordan was considered a head case coming out of college. He slid all the way into the second round because of it. But so far, according to all I can find out about him, he's been a model citizen and is a hard worker. Issiah Rider was considered a head case, but he had a pretty good NBA career. I know that some have compared Cousins to Rasheed Wallace in temperment. And that may be the worse case senario. I think its important for Cousins to land in the right place. I think a young team with a young emerging leader in Tyreke, a players type of coach in Westphal and a solid management for support would benefit a player like Cousins. But maybe its just wishful thinking on my part.

As far as upside, I think he's more talented than Al Horford was coming out of college. He's also bigger and longer than Horford. So I think he'll be better than Horford, who is really being forced to play out of position. He does a pretty good job though.

 

[dbfish]

Some of you may be old enough to have seen Moses Malone play, back in the day. I actually see some of Malone in Cousin's game. If Cousins is half that good you better hope he's playing for vthe Kings next season.

 

[Chupacabra]

Cousins is a beast. I think he has HUGE upside. Theres alot of nonsense on this board about some kind of lack of athleticism. Hes no Dwight Howard, but hes a superb athlete none the less. Great hands, great footwork, great size, good athleticism.

 

[Larry David]

This has turned into another Cousin’s debate, but I agree with a lot of your thesis – the team has Evans and Landry, who is a nice player, and several prospects (who could either be pretty good or unable to start for a contender or somewhere in between).


That last group is Hawes, Caspi, Green, and Thompson makes it nearly impossible to peg where this team is at. Not Brockman – who is Reggie Evans 2.0. If 2 or 3 really break out, this team is going to be in a good spot. If they stay on track, they will add depth. If they take the Hawes/Thompson 2010 track, …well then.


Not knowing the pick clouds things even further. If it’s in the top 2, then the Kings could really add the second franchise player they need. Otherwise, it becomes much more of a guessing game where the likelihood of success, player’s ceiling, best player/position of need debate gets really messy really fast.


I like Landry as a piece, but despite what Peaches says … he’s not a number two guy. He’s a good prospect to be a good PF. We know that. Some still think Hawes is an ok prospect to be a good center – and there is a lot of debate on that. Based upon what we’ve seen this year, I think it’s safe to say --- a good NBA doesn’t start Landry and Hawes together. That is two players that don’t rebound well for their position. So even if you are going to project them both out very favorably, I can’t see them playing a lot together.


There is talent here, but this is a team that won about 22% of their games over the past 3 and a half months. There are excuses, but every bad NBA team has them as well. At some point, the numbers are the numbers. We have as many wins at the Wizards, who have experienced an all time train wreck season and are looking up at the Clippers once again in the standings. Progress was made – but it was baby steps. Again help is coming down the road, but this team has a lot of needs. The duration and success of the rebuild turns on the development of that group of question marks … but either way we still need a number two guys and a quality starter in the post that is well above average with rebounding and post defense.

 

[bajaden]

This has turned into another Cousin’s debate, but I agree with a lot of your thesis – the team has Evans and Landry, who is a nice player, and several prospects (who could either be pretty good or unable to start for a contender or somewhere in between).


That last group is Hawes, Caspi, Green, and Thompson makes it nearly impossible to peg where this team is at. Not Brockman – who is Reggie Evans 2.0. If 2 or 3 really break out, this team is going to be in a good spot. If they stay on track, they will add depth. If they take the Hawes/Thompson 2010 track, …well then.


Not knowing the pick clouds things even further. If it’s in the top 2, then the Kings could really add the second franchise player they need. Otherwise, it becomes much more of a guessing game where the likelihood of success, player’s ceiling, best player/position of need debate gets really messy really fast.


I like Landry as a piece, but despite what Peaches says … he’s not a number two guy. He’s a good prospect to be a good PF. We know that. Some still think Hawes is an ok prospect to be a good center – and there is a lot of debate on that. Based upon what we’ve seen this year, I think it’s safe to say --- a good NBA doesn’t start Landry and Hawes together. That is two players that don’t rebound well for their position. So even if you are going to project them both out very favorably, I can’t see them playing a lot together.


There is talent here, but this is a team that won about 22% of their games over the past 3 and a half months. There are excuses, but every bad NBA team has them as well. At some point, the numbers are the numbers. We have as many wins at the Wizards, who have experienced an all time train wreck season and are looking up at the Clippers once again in the standings. Progress was made – but it was baby steps. Again help is coming down the road, but this team has a lot of needs. The duration and success of the rebuild turns on the development of that group of question marks … but either way we still need a number two guys and a quality starter in the post that is well above average with rebounding and post defense.

I can't argue with much of what you said. I agree about Landry and Hawes playing together. I think, at least without adding anyone to the mix, that Thompson and Landry are a better pairing. Certainly in the rebounding area, and it appears they're better as a pair offensively too. I haven't checked the stats to bear that out. Ideally I would prefer a defensive starting center and Thompson or Landry coming off the bench. Still too early to throw in the towel on Hawes. But he's headed toward the finish line..

I also agree about the record. But Washington does play in the eastern conference which is a little weaker than the western conference.

 

[bajaden]

Some of you may be old enough to have seen Moses Malone play, back in the day. I actually see some of Malone in Cousin's game. If Cousins is half that good you better hope he's playing for vthe Kings next season.

I was going to compare Cousins with Malone (Moses) as my high end expectation, but decided I didn't want to argue over it. He actually looks a lot like Malone as far as body type goes, and his game is very similar. My low end, in case you missed it was Dampier. My somewhere in between would Al Horford....

 

[kingofthejungle]

Cousins and Malone

Well, if Cousins ceiling is Moses Malone than I'm all for it. My impression is that Cousins' has more low post offense but a poorer motor and second jump than Malone. Regardless, you suggest elite company, and if Cousins can come close to playing Moses Malone basketball, I'm in like Errol.

I agree w/ the notion that this is becomming another Cousins debate and, frankly, there are already those in other threads. What if we switch it up: If the Kings draft Cousins than what is their depth chart and who might they reasonably go after in FA?

***And before I go there, yes, Nocioni is not included in these projections as I want him out of here.

So here's my depth chart:

Evans
Udrih/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Thompson/Brockman
Cousins/Hawes

My first impression is that the frontcourt is set up for the next decade, give or take a year... The backcourt needs work but shooting guards are particularly easier to pick up than other positions, namely PG, PF, C. So who completes the backcourt? Ideally, the Kings could find a legit starting SG to compliment Tyreke. In the meantime Udrih's game should continue to flourish and I expect his already improved value to stabilize barring injury. Petrie could try to sign anothe complimentary guard like a Shannon Brown or Raymond Felton, but saving his free agent dollars for next offseason might be more wise. I'm not overly impressed with this year's FA guards, but if anyone has realistic ideas please share. Also, saving before spending should help ensure that the Kings will need plenty of cash to re-sign their existing core.

Another scenario is that the Kings draft Evan Turner. The backcourt is "done", but what about that lack of low post defense? Would Petrie dangle a prime Beno and 2nd (heck, even a future 1st) to a lotter or mid-1st team. Petrie could take the best available big and may have many options: Whiteside, Udoh, Monroe, Alabi, and Sanders for example. I'll try to be conservative .

Evans/Udrih
Turner/Garcia
Greene/Casspi
Landry/Sanders/Brockman
Thompson/Hawes

Anyway, just havin' some fun when I should be sleeping. So good to be a Kings fan. Love the loss tonight to keep the Kings hope at 3 or better alive. Congrats to Tyreke, the cornerstone of this franchise.

KOTJ

 

[Kingster]

Cousins is a beast. I think he has HUGE upside. Theres alot of nonsense on this board about some kind of lack of athleticism. Hes no Dwight Howard, but hes a superb athlete none the less. Great hands, great footwork, great size, good athleticism.

Did you see him play against Varnado? Cousins didn't look very beastly.

 

[Kingster]

I think he's a good athlete. I do think he needs to be in better condition to play in the NBA, but most college players don't realize that until they come face to face with it. Tyreke being an exception. I think Cousins has a big upside. I wouldn't be touting him if I didn't. But as with all draft picks, there are no guarantee's. In some cases, you have players with a great work ethic, good charactor, and that show promise in glimpses here and there of their potential. Favors would fall into that category. Then you have players that the potential just leaps off of. There's no question in your mind that they can suceed at the next level if talent was the only issue. Those players are divided into two groups. Those with the work ethic and good charactor, and those that are questionable in that area.

Wall and Turner fall into the first group and Cousins and Lance Stevenson fall into the second group. Especially Stevenson. So the question to me isn't the upside. Its the work ethic and charactor issue. In Cousins case I think its overblown. Its a spur of the moment type of thing. Now that doesn't excuse it, but thats different than someone like Stevenson who is loaded with talent, but is a walking headcase all the time. I saw two games where he didn't like the lack of a call and instead of getting back in transition, he slowly walked back down the sideline, not even on the floor, and had his coach come running down and actually shove him back onto the floor. I saw him refuse to come out of a game, and I saw him refuse to go back into a game. Now there's a head case I wouldn't touch with a ten foot pole. But he's very talented.

DeAndre Jordan was considered a head case coming out of college. He slid all the way into the second round because of it. But so far, according to all I can find out about him, he's been a model citizen and is a hard worker. Issiah Rider was considered a head case, but he had a pretty good NBA career. I know that some have compared Cousins to Rasheed Wallace in temperment. And that may be the worse case senario. I think its important for Cousins to land in the right place. I think a young team with a young emerging leader in Tyreke, a players type of coach in Westphal and a solid management for support would benefit a player like Cousins. But maybe its just wishful thinking on my part.

As far as upside, I think he's more talented than Al Horford was coming out of college. He's also bigger and longer than Horford. So I think he'll be better than Horford, who is really being forced to play out of position. He does a pretty good job though.

Are you talking here about Cousins or Favors? I was asking you about Favors. Thanks.

 

[bajaden]

Did you see him play against Varnado? Cousins didn't look very beastly.

Come on will you. Varnado is a PF and Cousins is a center. If your point is that Varnado is quicker, then I agree with you. He's 6'9" and weighs 220 pounds and Cousins is 6'11" and weighs 275. I like Varnado and he had a great game against Kentucky. One of his best of the year. One of the things I liked about Varnado is that he always seemed to rise to occasion. So I don't think its a fair comparison, and, its just one game to boot.

Am I suspossed to throw out all the other games I watched because of one game. The whole point of watching as many games as possible is to get a good feel for a player. Otherwise you might just see his best game of the year, or just his worse game of the year.

 

[bajaden]

Are you talking here about Cousins or Favors? I was asking you about Favors. Thanks.

Sorry, my bad.. I think Favors is a very good athlete. I doubt he'd be ranked so high if he wern't. He just had the misfortune of going to the wrong program. Put him on the floor with a John Wall and all of a sudden you would see an entirely different player. He's not perfect by any means. His post game, while pretty good, still needs improvement. He has little or no outside game. While he's not a terrible passer, he certainly needs to work on that part of his game. So you would be drafting a work in progress. A project to some extent. But he has an NBA body right now. He has great size and length. He defended in the post very well. I'm also curious to see what his vertical, because at times he appeared to have some serious hops.

I think he's similar to JT in the sense that he could play both center and PF if needed. Like JT he runs the floor very well. He also plays with pretty good composure for an 18/19 year old. Long term he could be special. But like I said, he didn't really have a chance to show that much at G. Tech. Which is a shame..

 

[Kingster]

Come on will you. Varnado is a PF and Cousins is a center. If your point is that Varnado is quicker, then I agree with you. He's 6'9" and weighs 220 pounds and Cousins is 6'11" and weighs 275. I like Varnado and he had a great game against Kentucky. One of his best of the year. One of the things I liked about Varnado is that he always seemed to rise to occasion. So I don't think its a fair comparison, and, its just one game to boot.

Am I suspossed to throw out all the other games I watched because of one game. The whole point of watching as many games as possible is to get a good feel for a player. Otherwise you might just see his best game of the year, or just his worse game of the year.

Ahh, so the power forward Varnado outplayed the center Cousins. That makes me feel that much better about drafting Cousins.

You aren't supposed to throw out games. You're just supposed to incorporate all the games into your thinking. Like the West Virginia game. I guess I should throw that game out too. I guess I saw Cousins play four or five times. I must have seen his four or five worst games of the year. Maybe actually it's a cause and effect thing. Maybe I caused him to have his four or five worst games of the year; my own voodo experiment.

 

[Kingster]

Sorry, my bad.. I think Favors is a very good athlete. I doubt he'd be ranked so high if he wern't. He just had the misfortune of going to the wrong program. Put him on the floor with a John Wall and all of a sudden you would see an entirely different player. He's not perfect by any means. His post game, while pretty good, still needs improvement. He has little or no outside game. While he's not a terrible passer, he certainly needs to work on that part of his game. So you would be drafting a work in progress. A project to some extent. But he has an NBA body right now. He has great size and length. He defended in the post very well. I'm also curious to see what his vertical, because at times he appeared to have some serious hops.

I think he's similar to JT in the sense that he could play both center and PF if needed. Like JT he runs the floor very well. He also plays with pretty good composure for an 18/19 year old. Long term he could be special. But like I said, he didn't really have a chance to show that much at G. Tech. Which is a shame..

Interesting. When I saw him I didn't think had very good length. If anything, I thought he was on the short side. He did look like he was pretty muscular though.

 

[pshn80]

Good posts all. Thank you.