Martin declined to enter the game

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S

sactownfan

Guest
#1
#1
http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/postgame-reacti-3.html

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/2010/02/gameday-kings-a-16.html

a big deal is being made here about Martin choosing not to come back in during the 4th quarter... I cant help to agree that it looks bad that he didn't wanna be out on the floor. Martin is the veteran and one of our best players he should want to be out there... it worries me that he could be mentally weak...

However he is coming off of a serious surgery and I think its pretty obvious that he's not 100% yet. Even if he was 100% he's not totally into prime game shape or form. then you factor in the lack of chemistry with all the new guys, its not a easy place to be.

I agree with the 2 articles that there should be some real concern but the truth is that without Martin during the 4th last night...the team was playing good, and maybe Martin did the right thing.

im not gonna go overboard on this. but Martin is def struggling with his game and his confidence... but his move to sit out, seemed more like the right thing to do.... last night....

but if this is still happening a month from now i'd be seriously worried.
 
DocHolliday

DocHolliday

Starter
#3
#3
This is a first hand account from Sam Amick

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs/sports/kings/archives/cat_sam_amick.html

At the six minute mark, coach said 'Go in,'" Martin informed me. "I walk up to the scorer's table and then head back because (there) was a timeout coming up. On the way back, I said to coach, 'Hey they're playing well. (Do) you want to let them play it out? He said, 'I want you in.' I said, 'OK.' So I was ready to go in at the timeout, then the timeout happened at 3:37 and he looked at me and said, 'Let's just let them play it out.' And I said, 'OK, that's fine.'"
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In the end Martin was told to let them play it out. This is a NON issue to me. People are just dog piling on Martin with every chance they can, and it's getting ridiculous.
 
A

Andriod_KiNg

Starter
#4
#4
Ill take that, that group did play some great defense, just choked away the game by missing FTs but this will get some people upset. The ones that call Martin a cancer and ball hog, this will not sit will with them, the guy they like to pick on put the team above himself.
 
DocHolliday

DocHolliday

Starter
#6
#6
Andriod_KiNg said:
Ill take that, that group did play some great defense, just choked away the game by missing FTs but this will get some people upset. The ones that call Martin a cancer and ball hog, this will not sit will with them, the guy they like to pick on put the team above himself.
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He's basically in a "damn if you do, damned if you don't situation". If he goes in the game and they lose,

" MARTIN RUINED THE CHEMISTRY THAT WAS HAPPENING DURING THAT PERIOD!! IT'S ALL HIS FAULT!!". IF he doesn't go in, "HE'S SOFT. I WANT PEOPLE ON MY TEAM THAT WANT THE BALL, THAT WANT TO BE IN THERE NO MATTER WHAT."

It's ridiculous.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#7
#7
Interesting takes. But in the end aren't you just making comments supporting the 5 year $55 million dollar starting player staying on the bench? I would love it if the guy was pissed off and wanted to be on the court and trying to help his team win.

But if the guy is in a no win situation what do you do with him? Let him sit like Kenny Thomas? Trade him? Or make a large portion of the Kings fan base take a time out and think on how poorly they have treated Kevin?
 
DocHolliday

DocHolliday

Starter
#8
#8
JB_kings said:
Interesting takes. But in the end aren't you just making comments supporting the 5 year $55 million dollar starting player staying on the bench? I would love it if the guy was pissed off and wanted to be on the court and trying to help his team win.

But if the guy is in a no win situation what do you do with him? Let him sit like Kenny Thomas? Trade him? Or make a large portion of the Kings fan base take a time out and think on how poorly they have treated Kevin?
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U ignore fans opinions, because fans aren't the General Manager of the team, and they arent the Coach of the team.

They are fans, period. Let them say what they want. You put what you feel you need out on the floor. In that case I feel CW did that. He decided to let them play it out.
 
Capt. Factorial

Capt. Factorial

ceterum censeo delendum esse Argentum
Staff member
#9
#9
JB_kings said:
But if the guy is in a no win situation what do you do with him? Let him sit like Kenny Thomas?
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There's a pretty wide gulf between sitting a player for a few minutes in the fourth when the rest of the team is doing well and sitting a player for several years on end.
 
L

LA King Fan II

Bench
#11
#11
Sorry, I don't see it as "nothing". A player who turns down a chance to go in the game has either lost confidence or is a quitter.

Or both. Kevin seems to be fitting into both pairs of shoes.

A guy making 11 million bucks should not feel like he couldn't add to his team's efforts. Martin needs to go - but waiting for Petrie on this deadline thing has been awfully uneventful in the past.
 
B

BudWright

G-League
#12
#12
Kevin Martin entering game

DocHolliday has it right! This is fan's opinions, respect that, and go on.

It was a coach's decision, as simple as that. (Many times we have seen a player go to the scorer's table and return to the bench for whatever reason). The blame game is really getting old no matter who the subject is.
 
J

JB_kings

Starter
#13
#13
BudWright said:
DocHolliday has it right! This is fan's opinions, respect that, and go on.

It was a coach's decision, as simple as that. (Many times we have seen a player go to the scorer's table and return to the bench for whatever reason). The blame game is really getting old no matter who the subject is.
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It really isn't about the fans. We just have opinions and they don't mean much to the coaching staff or management. All I can offer is my opinion as a fan. If I was PW and Kevin comes to me and says let the guys play, I'll sit. I'm a pissed off coach. Coaches want to see some desire and fire from all their players to get out on the court.

Does it matter? Well Kevin has struggled more often than not since coming back. He clearly has to overcome some issues both physical and mental. I see this not wanting to to play last night as a mental issue. It certainly would matter to me if I was coach. Although I might not tell the media about it. But damn sure Kevin and I would have a conversation about his level of desire.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#14
#14
Andriod_KiNg said:
Ill take that, that group did play some great defense, just choked away the game by missing FTs but this will get some people upset. The ones that call Martin a cancer and ball hog, this will not sit will with them, the guy they like to pick on put the team above himself.
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I can't speak for anyone but myself, but I don't think Martin is a ball hog or a cancer. But I do question his mental toughness. I know when I played the only thing that could keep me off the field was the manager. I don't want to misjudge him. He has a different personality than most competitors I'm familiar with. Perhaps he's unselfish to a fault. The problem is, he's being paid the money of a player that should be on the court at crunch time.

I seriously doubt that Tyreke, or Webber, or Bibby, or countless other players would have said what Martin said. In crunch time they would have fought to get back into the game. Perhaps they would have been wrong. But if it were me, and I decided not to go back out there, and we then lost, I would be kicking myself in the butt and wondering if I could have made a difference.

But what do I know. I'm one of those full steam ahead guys, and sometimes I run off the track. I just wish it was Martin shooting those freethrows at the end.
 
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C

cstorm

Bench
#15
#15
I'm a big fan of Martin and don't want to trade him. So I am not on the trade him bandwagon BUT...I did feel his attitude was puzzling considering he is an elite player who should want to be on the court helping his team.
In other words, I agree with bajaden.
 
bajaden

bajaden

Hall of Famer
#16
#16
After reading all the posts, which were interesting, I guess the bigger question is, what are our expectations of Martin. If Peja had declined to go back into a game I can guarantee you that he would be getting ripped to shreds right now. And I'm certainly not endorsing that anyone do that. What I'am saying is that there were expectations of Peja that rightly or wrongly the fans wanted him to fulfill.

So what are your expectations of Martin. Less than that of Peja. Less than that of C. Webb. Yeah, Westphal may have finally said let them play it out, but it was Martin who brought it up. You see if I were a coach and I was about to send one of my star players back into the game and he came back to me and suggested that I stick with the players that were out there. Well, at that moment in time, my first thought would be, maybe he's right. Because he doesn't appear to think he can help by going in. And if thats his mindset, then he probably won't help. Now that concerns me. And I say that not to be critical of Martin. I want him to suceed! I would much rather have him go back in and fail. Than appear to be afraid to fail. So I worry about his mental toughness right now.
 
Packt

Packt

Starter
#17
#17
If Martin himself doesn't think he can help the team, why is he still here.

Westphal asked him to go in, but once he wavered, forget it.
 
K

kingzfan

G-League
#19
#19
DocHolliday said:
He's basically in a "damn if you do, damned if you don't situation". If he goes in the game and they lose,

" MARTIN RUINED THE CHEMISTRY THAT WAS HAPPENING DURING THAT PERIOD!! IT'S ALL HIS FAULT!!". IF he doesn't go in, "HE'S SOFT. I WANT PEOPLE ON MY TEAM THAT WANT THE BALL, THAT WANT TO BE IN THERE NO MATTER WHAT."

It's ridiculous.
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amen
 
VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#20
#20
DocHolliday said:
This is a first hand account from Sam Amick

http://www.sacbee.com/static/weblogs...sam_amick.html

At the six minute mark, coach said 'Go in,'" Martin informed me. "I walk up to the scorer's table and then head back because (there) was a timeout coming up. On the way back, I said to coach, 'Hey they're playing well. (Do) you want to let them play it out? He said, 'I want you in.' I said, 'OK.' So I was ready to go in at the timeout, then the timeout happened at 3:37 and he looked at me and said, 'Let's just let them play it out.' And I said, 'OK, that's fine.'"
Click to expand...
In the end Martin was told to let them play it out. This is a NON issue to me. People are just dog piling on Martin with every chance they can, and it's getting ridiculous.
Click to expand...
Agreed. Martin has done nothing to deserve that kind of vitriol from a few fans who tend to outshout anyone who doesn't want him tarred and feathered and shipped out of town.
 
Bricklayer

Bricklayer

Don't Make Me Use The Bat
#21
#21
I was more concerned with his demeanor in this game after he did not start the second half. Was over there laughing and joking around with somebody. Just seemed inapprpriate and a tad odd. Laughing at the decision? Its all just odd.
 
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VF21

VF21

Super Moderator Emeritus
SME
#22
#22
bajaden said:
After reading all the posts, which were interesting, I guess the bigger question is, what are our expectations of Martin. If Peja had declined to go back into a game I can guarantee you that he would be getting ripped to shreds right now. And I'm certainly not endorsing that anyone do that. What I'am saying is that there were expectations of Peja that rightly or wrongly the fans wanted him to fulfill.

So what are your expectations of Martin. Less than that of Peja. Less than that of C. Webb. Yeah, Westphal may have finally said let them play it out, but it was Martin who brought it up. You see if I were a coach and I was about to send one of my star players back into the game and he came back to me and suggested that I stick with the players that were out there. Well, at that moment in time, my first thought would be, maybe he's right. Because he doesn't appear to think he can help by going in. And if thats his mindset, then he probably won't help. Now that concerns me. And I say that not to be critical of Martin. I want him to suceed! I would much rather have him go back in and fail. Than appear to be afraid to fail. So I worry about his mental toughness right now.
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Bollocks.

Kevin Martin is and always has been a team player and supportive of all the kids. He actually saw the kids doing well and, being a team player, knew the experience would be beneficial for them - and in turn the Kings. He made a suggestion to the Coach and discussed it with him, much as I would expect from any player who is more interested in the growth of the team than personal glory.

Isn't that just as possible?
 
V

vistacruza_kings

Bench
#23
#23
Bricklayer said:
I was more concerned wiht hsi demeanor in hti sgame aftr he did not start the second ahlf. Was over there laughing and joking aorudn wiht somebody. Just seemed inapprpriate and a tad odd. Laughing at the decision? Its all just odd.
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big deal its not like kevin is the first player to laugh while his team is getting blown out
 
Kings Faithful

Kings Faithful

Starter
#26
#26
Paul Westphal sounded really pissed when he was asked why he didn't put Kevin back in the second half. He said "it was nothing, I just wanted to play different guys". But the tone of his voice said otherwise.
 
K

kingzfan

G-League
#29
#29
Omg so he laughed? if it was tyreke..this wouldnt even be an issue..this is only an issue because some people on this board think Kevin cant even breathe right.
 
kingsnation

kingsnation

All-Star
#30
#30
I have to say, I agree with bajaden here. It all comes down to expectations and what we expect of him. His contract and role in the past say he NEEDS to be out there no matter what. His FT shooting and his ability to get to the hoop would've been HUGE for our team last night. Star players should be out there, because they have the ability and desire to change the game in favor of their team.

I am a gigantic supporter of Kevin. And will continue to be.. but I don't want our first-second- or third best player to VOLUNTARILY sit out a 4th quarter of a close game.

My suggestion is this: If Kevin has no problem staying on the bench during a close 4th quarter, maybe he won't have any issues being a 6th man off the bench because that might help our team more right now and in the long run.
 
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